162 replies to this topic

[willie999]

tak away a saints and redskins first rounders... that way the skins now have zero  shot at rg3

[AP]

Dungy: Hit by Williams' 'Skins Defense origin of Manning injury

Didn't know Dungy was a doctor, but his words carry some weight and only add fuel to the fire. Especially when talking about Peyton Manning.

[ClevelandEagle]

If they connect this to Lord Manning's neck surgeries, there's going to be hell to pay.

[fanatik]

EaglesInSacTown, on 02 March 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

They forgot to add the death penalty ala SMU and another Katrina to land there again.

[Eagle Jeff]

fanatik, on 04 March 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

They forgot to add the death penalty ala SMU and another Katrina to land there again.

I'm all for the Saints receiving the death penalty but no Katrina smack.

[DrZaius]

This is a huge, bad story for the Saints.....this is bigger than Spygate.

The NFL warned the Saints about the program; Benson told his GM to shut it down....the GM, coach, DC, and players kept it going.

The NFL should bust their foot off in the Saints a** over this.

If I were Benson, I'd fire Loomis for insubordination and deceit.  If I'm the owner, and I tell my GM to do something, I expect him to do it.

As far as Sean Payton goes.....99% of his success depends on Drew Brees not taking a shot to his knee. He's got balls the size of church bells for turning a blind eye to a bounty program, while his own QB is getting the Fing Michael Jordan treatment.

http://sportsillustr...omis/index.html

Quote

Even worse, Loomis, according to the NFL's internal investigation and report, went all Haldeman and Erhlichman on us and decided to cover up the existence of the team's bounty program, first denying any knowledge of it to the league when the NFL looked into the allegations in 2010, and then promising to dismantle and discontinue such a program if he found such evidence. The league's report contains four very damning sentences regarding Loomis' response to the Saints' bounty fund:

"When informed earlier this year of the new information, Mr. Benson advised league staff that he had directed his general manager, Mickey Loomis, to ensure that any bounty program be discontinued immediately. The evidence shows that Mr. Loomis did not carry out Mr. Benson's direction.

"Similarly, when the initial allegations where discussed with Mr. Loomis in 2010, he denied any knowledge of a bounty program and pledged that he would ensure that no such program was in place. There is no evidence that Mr. Loomis took any effective action to stop these practices.''

In other words, Loomis looked the other way, and hoped the story would go away. He decided it was better to protect his team's coaches and players than to do his job and act in the best interests of the franchise and Benson. Maybe that won't wind up being judged to rise to the level of a firable offense in the Saints organziation, but to orchestrate the cover-up of a potentially embarrassing organizational misdeed will get your butt canned plenty in the corporate world.

[DrZaius]

Gmen4ever, on 04 March 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

We'll find out for sure just how important safety is to Goodell. After all of his talk, and all of these ridiculous rule changes over the past few years, he has painted himself into a corner. With this story coming to light, he has to bring the hammer down on the Saints, and particularly Williams/Payton, in a big way. Anything less would show the world that all of his bluster was nothing but a load of bull****.

Personally, I'd love to see Williams banned for life, Payton suspended for a season and heavily fined,the players involved heavily fined, and a 1st round pick lost. It's a lot, I know, but there is no room in the league for this ish IMO, and such a huge penalty would most definitely discourage other teams from doing it in the future.

If the NFL wants to drive home their point on player safety, this is what they should do:

Major league fine
Forfeit this year's 2nd and 3rd.
Forfeit next years 1st.
Multigame suspensions for everyone who participated in the program, or allowed it to continue....including Loomis, Sean Payton, and Williams......basically, turn the Saints defense into an expansion team for a season.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

DrZaius, on 04 March 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

This is a huge, bad story for the Saints.....this is bigger than Spygate.

The NFL warned the Saints about the program; Benson told his GM to shut it down....the GM, coach, DC, and players kept it going.

The NFL should bust their foot off in the Saints a** over this.

If I were Benson, I'd fire Loomis for insubordination and deceit.  If I'm the owner, and I tell my GM to do something, I expect him to do it.

As far as Sean Payton goes.....99% of his success depends on Drew Brees not taking a shot to his knee. He's got balls the size of church bells for turning a blind eye to a bounty program, while his own QB is getting the Fing Michael Jordan treatment.

http://sportsillustr...omis/index.html

It could potentially kill the Rams too, if they lose their new DC to a long suspension or a banning.

[birdcall22]

With all this Bounty talk going around it started to make me wonder. How often do you think team put up a bounty program when playing the Eagles to knock out Vick? I mean lets face it, Vick  doesn't get the late hit call like other QBs and with his injury history you have to believe most team were gunning for Vick to be Knocked out.

[gibsonplyer]

What do you think is going to be their punishment?

I think you have to have at least a fine, loss of their 2nd this year and 1st next year, suspensions among the defensive players, Payton suspended for some length of time and Williams suspended for the year.  Now yesterday I thought that would be enough for him and wasn't on the 'ban him for life' bandwagon but with him doing this with every place he's been...I'm not so sure anymore.

[Eagle Jeff]

Should Congress launch their own investigation into this deplorable mess?  The commissioner is going to raise unholy hell.

[Dawkins 20]

This could have a pretty huge impact on their ability to sign free agents. Combine that with a potential loss of draft picks and the Saints might be hurting pretty good this year.... especially if all of their FA's (Colston, Meachem, Nicks, etc.) bolt for other teams.

[AceofSpades]

I'm expecting fines that'll make the Patriots scandal look like a slap on the wrist (oh wait it was). I think they're gonna get some serious fines, they're gonna forfeit draft picks, Payton's getting suspended, Williams suspended, and Lord knows what else. I heard somebody suggest that they forfeit the Super Bowl from 2009. No chance that happens, this isn't college they're not gonna go back & vacate wins.

But a question I heard on the radio this morning, would you want your own team to do something like this?

[Gmen4ever]

From PFT:

Quote

Lengthy and unprecedented suspensions appear to be coming for those involved in the Saints’ practice of paying bounties to players who injured opponents.
Mark Maske of the Washington Post reports that the NFL is considering long suspensions for head coach Sean Payton, General Manager Mickey Loomis, former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and players who were involved in bounties.

How long? Maske cited an unnamed source who said suspensions could be half a season or longer

http://profootballta...ng-suspensions/

This is exactly what I was hoping they would do. People are going to be quick with "Its football, not ballet", but we're talking about people being intentionally hurt in a big way(ie..Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, if the theories are true). As I said in an earlier post, Goodell has painted himself into the corner with his safety crusade, so now he really has to come down on all of those involved in this fiasco. It's going to hurt the Saints in a huge way

[gibsonplyer]

Dawkins 20, on 04 March 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

This could have a pretty huge impact on their ability to sign free agents. Combine that with a potential loss of draft picks and the Saints might be hurting pretty good this year.... especially if all of their FA's (Colston, Meachem, Nicks, etc.) bolt for other teams.

I mentioned this in the thread over in TATE.  IF they're seriously hit to the extent that it hurts them competitively (which IMO they should) then why would free agents want to go there if it'll be at least a year before they start to recover?

The commissioner needs to bring the hammer down hard on them.  The everyone else does it excuse is just a bigger reason why.  You want the practice to stop then take the team you've caught red handed and make an example out of them so every team knows there are consequences that they don't want to face.  Plus other teams sound like they're performance based 'bounties' not this injury based system.  I assume they want to put a stop to this extra curricular money changing hands (they have a salary cap for a reason, players should be getting rewarded by a team not each other monetarily) and they NEED to show they care about player safety.  They'd be stupid to give them a slap on the wrist with law suits pending.

[Gmen4ever]

AceofSpades, on 04 March 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

I'm expecting fines that'll make the Patriots scandal look like a slap on the wrist (oh wait it was). I think they're gonna get some serious fines, they're gonna forfeit draft picks, Payton's getting suspended, Williams suspended, and Lord knows what else. I heard somebody suggest that they forfeit the Super Bowl from 2009. No chance that happens, this isn't college they're not gonna go back & vacate wins.

But a question I heard on the radio this morning, would you want your own team to do something like this?

Would I want the Giants to have a bounty program?

Hell f'n no. Only a moron would

[Gmen4ever]

gibsonplyer, on 04 March 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

I mentioned this in the thread over in TATE.  IF they're seriously hit to the extent that it hurts them competitively (which IMO they should) then why would free agents want to go there if it'll be at least a year before they start to recover?

The commissioner needs to bring the hammer down hard on them.  The everyone else does it excuse is just a bigger reason why.  You want the practice to stop then take the team you've caught red handed and make an example out of them so every team knows there are consequences that they don't want to face.  Plus other teams sound like they're performance based 'bounties' not this injury based system.  I assume they want to put a stop to this extra curricular money changing hands (they have a salary cap for a reason, players should be getting rewarded by a team not each other monetarily) and they NEED to show they care about player safety.  They'd be stupid to give them a slap on the wrist with law suits pending.

Completely agree. It has gotten to the point where the NFL has to break these guys and make an example of them. It may seem a bit extreme to some, but it'll serve as one huge deterrent to other teams who are doing the same thing, but simply haven't been caught.

[pencil face]

I expect fines and suspension...

My guess.
$750k to $1mil for the entire Saints organization...

Sean Payton will be suspended 4 games

GW 8-12 games and if Goodell really drops the hammer on him he might get banned for a few years...... and $250k in fines.

[Eagle Jeff]

To this day I'm at a loss to comprehend how the Vikings players were so non chalant and passive as Favre was getting killed by vigilante thugs.  If The Saints would have tried that with McNabb, Sheldon Brown would have taken the field and DESTROYED people.  Gregg Williams would have been DESTROYED by Sheldon.   Ike Reese would have had Saints players looking for their chiclets had they done that to McNabb.  Favre carried that group of bums to the conference championship and they didn't have his back.

Drew Brees needs to run for the hills because this ship is sinking faster than Penn State football.   People need to be jailed.

[cowboy30]

IMO, people are complaining because it is a bunch of sissy arse stuff. I think we all watched the Saints in the playoffs. I saw them in several games during the season as well and I just saw physical defensive play from them. I saw some solid, strong hits, including the game against Favre. Some of them were close calls to being late hits, but I never saw intentional shots to knees or anything dirty.

It's stupid that they would put that on paper. I'm sure most coaches say it, but don't put it down in writing. Basically your just trying to get your defense to play super physical and with emotion and anger.

But the penalty does have to be big because of the whole talks about NFLs future with lawsuits due to injuries and stuff!

F the Saints!

[Buddy's Ryan]

"Yes, you did a great job ripping the QB's head off, but you forgot to crap down his neck !!!"

[dave moss]

love the banner hanging to the left of jimmy johnson and the cops.  LOL

[iinvincible]

I think we found our new DC.  (Greg Williams)

[KzEaglefan86]

Eagle Jeff, on 04 March 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

To this day I'm at a loss to comprehend how the Vikings players were so non chalant and passive as Favre was getting killed by vigilante thugs.  If The Saints would have tried that with McNabb, Sheldon Brown would have taken the field and DESTROYED people.  Gregg Williams would have been DESTROYED by Sheldon.   Ike Reese would have had Saints players looking for their chiclets had they done that to McNabb.  Favre carried that group of bums to the conference championship and they didn't have his back.

Drew Brees needs to run for the hills because this ship is sinking faster than Penn State football.   People need to be jailed.

Jailed?  Wow, man.  Whether players admit it or not, they are looking to make the hardest, most jarring hit they possibly can on pretty much every play.  It's part of the culture of football.  Are there even any stats available that indicate players got injured at a higher rate when facing the Saints?

Oh, and I think you are overrating Ike Reese's abilities.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

As much as I think the NFL needs to and will come down on this, if I was a Saints fan, I'd say that the Lombardi was worth what's about to happen to them.

[TheSilence]

Article from the AJC, I love it!
http://blogs.ajc.com...rk_bradley_blog


If you listen hard, you’ll hear giggles. But you have to listen hard. The NFL, which has a deft hand for publicity, hasn’t gone to great lengths to advertise just how despised the New Orleans Saints have become. Within football circles, they’re regarded as the spoiled child who wears a sense of entitlement on his shoulder pads.
The formerly feckless Saints rising to excellence in the wake of Katrina and finally delivering a Super Bowl to New Orleans? A feel-good story of the first rank. Alas, not all of its architects were such swell guys.
On Friday the NFL released the findings of what it termed “a lengthy investigation” into the Saints’ pay-for-mayhem scheme, and this probe — unlike, say, those conducted by the NCAA — wasn’t the product of some media report. This was all the league’s doing, and from its pointed language we’re left with only one conclusion: The Saints are in real trouble.
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who will decide the penalties, has already tipped his hand, saying: “The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for ‘performance’ but also for injuring opposing players.”
From the NFL’s findings: The Saints’ bounty scheme spanned three seasons — the Super Bowl run included — and involved 22 to 27 defensive players; it was “administered” by defensive coordinator Gregg Williams; it was no secret to either head coach Sean Payton or general manager Mickey Loomis, the latter of whom lied to the NFL about its existence and then failed to heed owner Tom Benson’s instructions that the practice be discontinued.
The Washington Post has reported that “lengthy suspensions” could be levied against Loomis, Payton and Williams (who’s now with the St. Louis Rams). How lengthy? According to the Post’sMark Maske, quoting an unnamed source: “A half-season or longer.”
It couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch.
The same audacity that enabled Payton to lift the Saints from mediocrity has been allowed to shape operational policy. The Saints act as if they’re better and smarter than everyone else. The NFL was aghast over the Saints’ behavior during its Super Bowl week: The team was late for Media Day, Payton was late for nearly everything and then, as a capper, he tried to duck the winning coach’s morning-after briefing.
In his autobiography, Payton admits he did some celebratory drinking and barely slept. Only through the entreaties of his pal Mike Ornstein did he make the press session, of which Payton wrote: “I’m lucky I could string a sentence together at all.”
The same Mike Ornstein, according to an NFL memo obtained by Mike Freeman of CBS Sports, pledged money to the Saints’ bounty fund in both 2009 in 2011. In 1995 Ornsteinpleaded guilty to one count of mail fraud: While the NFL’s director of club marketing, he’d submitted $350,000 in invoices for goods never received. In 2010 Ornstein, then described as “a marketing agent,” pleaded guilty for conspiring to scalp Super Bowl tickets. Question: Why is an NFL coach consorting with a felon?
(To Payton, appearances apparently mean little. He caused a stir in New Orleans — which is, post-Katrina, hugely sensitive to relocations — when he moved his family to Dallas in 2011. And whose house did the Paytons lease in the posh Westlake suburb? Why, Atlanta-Brave-for-a-year Mark Teixeira’s.)
In 2010 the Saints were sued by former security director Geoffrey Santini, who accused “senior staff members” of stealing Vicodin from the team’s prescription-drug supply. Payton was identified as one of the senior staffers but denied any wrongdoing. In an interview with Glenn Guilbeau of USA Today, Santini accused Loomis of trying to oversee a coverup. The lawsuit went to arbitration; no resolution has come to light.
On Dec. 27, 2010, some Saints players and coaches celebrated victory in the Georgia Dome by posing for a photo at midfield. Defensive tackle Remi Ayodele told Pete Prisco of CBS Sportsthat he’d urinated on the Falcons logo. A year later, Payton allowed quarterback Drew Brees to keep throwing at the end of a nationally televised rout of the Falcons in the (successful) attempt to break Dan Marino’s record for passing yards in a season.
The Saints are such a classy crew that they don’t know real class when it lives in their locker room. Last week Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports reported that Loomis had referred to Brees, whose contract is expiring, as merely a “very good” quarterback. Unable to work out a long-term deal, the Saints slapped the franchise tag on Brees, which means they’ll keep him for 2012. But why run the risk of alienating the best player that city has known? Why not lock him up for five more years? (And thereby save the franchise tag for guard Carl Nicks, who could be targeted by the Falcons?)
If you listen hard, you’ll hear giggles at the thought of the Saints getting their comeuppance. The loudest of those might well be emanating from Flowery Branch, although the Falcons are too smart to admit such a thing. Old political adage: When your rival is in the process of destroying himself, get out of the way.

[dajoka004]

Ornstein's involvement is honestly the most troubling part. Here's a convicted felon and someone not even officially part of the organization paying players to injure opponents. I haven't seen this anywhere else, but does everyone not see the gambling implications here? If I'm Ornstein, I feel pretty comfortable betting on the Saints knowing I just enticed the defense with a couple of stacks to go out and injure Kurt Warner and Brett Favre.

That is a big problem.

[AceofSpades]

Peter King said he's expecting at least an 8 game suspension for Williams.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

AceofSpades, on 05 March 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Peter King said he's expecting at least an 8 game suspension for Williams.

Kind of light for a decade of rules violations and cap circumvention. Anything less than a full season is a slap on the wrist.

[dave moss]

so are the redskins involved in bounty gate or not?