27 replies to this topic

[bluto]

The blurb focuses on Curtis Lofton, but the latter part is what resonates. My emphasis added.

Quote

5. Falcons middle linebacker Curtis Lofton -- He is a good run player, but he has struggled at times against the pass. This is a passing league. So a team might be spending big for a two-down linebacker. The middle-linebacker value isn't what it once used to be.

[Jordan629]

It's true. LBs are going to look worse than they really are with teams using TEs so often. But that's why it's still very important.

[MR-CYN]

Andy figured that out over a decade ago. How's that working?

[GangGreen*2011*]

why is that? with the emergence of tight ends, linebacker value should be at an all-time high.
there are many elite run-blocking lb, but not many elite cover guys.

[RedskinsFan01]

If you want to be able to stop the run you need a good middle linebacker who can fill the hole and call out the defensive signals, like a London Fletcher or Ray Lewis.

[we_gotta_believe]

GangGreen*2011*, on 06 March 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

why is that? with the emergence of tight ends, linebacker value should be at an all-time high.
there are many elite run-blocking lb, but not many elite cover guys.

How many of them are true tight ends though? A guy like Hernandez is more of a possession WR than a TE. I havent seen much of guys like Jimmy Graham, but can he actually block well enough to be considered a true tight end? Seems like the line between a TE and a "big" WR is being blurred further than the line between a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 DE.

[birdman#12]

Unbelievable.....

The middle linebacker is the most important player on defense.  Period.  He's the QB on defense, he sets the tone, establishes the swagger, leads the defense.

[NOTW]

Don't let Andy read that!  

It might not be so bad if you have 3 halfway decent LBs and not star, but also have 2 good safeties.  The Eagles weakest spots are all the LB and S spots so they need major help there, not tweaks.

[time2rock]

Don't need a super star, just someone who is decent in coverage and solid against the run (preferably better in the latter).  A player that matches that description will still be much better than what we have had there in the last few years.

[Solomon]

birdman#12, on 06 March 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Unbelievable..... The middle linebacker is the most important player on defense. Period. He's the QB on defense, he sets the tone, establishes the swagger, leads the defense.

"Atlanta Falcons did not resign Lofton because he failed to promptly establish swagger."

[bluto]

RedskinsFan01, on 06 March 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

If you want to be able to stop the run you need a good middle linebacker who can fill the hole and call out the defensive signals, like a London Fletcher or Ray Lewis.

The point is that stopping the run is of less and less import.

Try reading.

[bluto]

This is exactly why we should all be thankful that fans are only fans.

birdman#12, on 06 March 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Unbelievable.....

The middle linebacker is the most important player on defense.  Period.  He's the QB on defense, he sets the tone, establishes the swagger, leads the defense.

[eephraim]

bluto, on 06 March 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

The blurb focuses on Curtis Lofton, but the latter part is what resonates. My emphasis added.

Do you understand how stupid that statement is? Because teams pass more MLB isn't as important? It's even MORE important to get a damn MLB that can cover.

[Pallidrone]

eephraim, on 06 March 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Do you understand how stupid that statement is? Because teams pass more MLB isn't as important? It's even MORE important to get a damn MLB that can cover.

And that is the problem.

How many MLB as fast enough to cover the TE and WR over the middle, but big enough to shed blocks and stop the run?

If you go with a big MLB, they will be able to stop the run but wil get burned by the smaller, faster WR and RBs coming out in the flat. If you go with a smaller LB, they will be able to cover those WRs and RBs but typically can not get off the blocks to stop the run.

There are very few MLBs in the league that can do both effectively. You typically have to pick your poision.

[we_gotta_believe]

bluto, on 06 March 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

The point is that stopping the run is of less and less import.

Try reading.

So conversely, does that mean it's of more and more export? And before you respond, make sure you remember to...

Take a look,
it's in a book,
a Reading Rainbow!

[NWMontana]

If your running the W9, you better have a stud in the middle of that hole......

[kerriskazu]

I don't know how good Conner, Tulloch or Hawthorne are at pass coverage, but these guys know how to command a defense, stuff the run without having to think about where to go. I love Kuechley and Hightower in this draft, but both of these guys will struggle in the 1st half of the season no matter how good they are or how high their ceiling is because their minds will be swimming. Drafting one of these guys to play SAM is a great option for their rookie season and possibly sliding over to MIKE a year or two later is the ideal situation IMO. It worked for Bradley and it would work for one of these young linebackers. I've said this in other posts, MIKE should be a veteran player period. I have no problem with the Eagles drafting the BPA at 15, but I would like to see a trade back up into round one for Kuechley or Hightower and at this point, Hightower would be the only reasonable option at the bottom of round 1. If they don't have opportunity, then I really love Ronnell Lewis at SAM in round 2. If Lewis is selected in round 2, I would follow up with Robinson from Texas to ensure the Eagles found a possible MIKE & SAM in one draft. Lewis is a beast and would be flat out nasty in the middle! But, can he cover? Robinson looks like he can cover fairly well, so there might be something there....

[jReese]

It generally takes a LB 2 or 3 years to develope on the NFL....it took Trotter 3 years.

I still say those willing to give up a rookie and 2nd year guy, don't know much about the sport....

And drafting another Rookie LB makes no sense, only adds to the problem. We need sign a veteran....

[NOTW]

Pallidrone, on 06 March 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

And that is the problem.

How many MLB as fast enough to cover the TE and WR over the middle, but big enough to shed blocks and stop the run?

If you go with a big MLB, they will be able to stop the run but wil get burned by the smaller, faster WR and RBs coming out in the flat. If you go with a smaller LB, they will be able to cover those WRs and RBs but typically can not get off the blocks to stop the run.

There are very few MLBs in the league that can do both effectively. You typically have to pick your poision.

That's why you need better safeties and corners.

With the wide 9, the D line is going after the QB so the LBs are supposed to handle the run.  So they should have big, tough, physical LBs who can stop the run and (gasp, is it possible with this team) stop them at the line of scrimmage or for a loss.   Then you let the secondary and your outside LBs cover the WRs and TEs.

But no.  Reid chose Washburn and the wide 9, then chose Casey Matthews and Brian Rolle.

It's amazing how we bash fans for not knowing anything but look at the decisions the team makes.

[NOTW]

bluto, on 06 March 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

The point is that stopping the run is of less and less import.

Try reading.

No it's not.  yes, it's a pass happy league but if a team knows you suck at the run game and they have a RB that can literally carry your small weak arse LBs on his back on the way to a 20+ run, you exploit that.

Every team has strengths and weaknesses, so you have to be able to live with the weaknesses and cover for them.  Jim Johnson's defenses were always bad against the run and we complained about it every season.  But he had a great blitz scheme and strong secondary and DEs and would hold teams to that magic number of 17 points or less.

With the wide 9, it's all about getting to the QB.  But teams also use quick drops, short slants, etc.  So you need a big MLB who is the anchor of your defense (he also calls the plays, calls audibles) and the outside LBs need to be more mobile and able to cover TEs (which is tough for any LB since TEs are more and more a part of team's offenses).

Then you need a safety like Brian Dawkins to just pick a team on his shoulders and make a play.  We have the mediocre Nate Allen and a bunch of scrubs back there.

[bluto]

we_gotta_believe, on 06 March 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

So conversely, does that mean it's of more and more export? And before you respond, make sure you remember to...

Take a look,
it's in a book,
a Reading Rainbow!

Here's the DEFINITION of "import" you nimrod:

consequence or importance: matters of great import.

http://dictionary.re...m/browse/import

[BillTheButcher]

i think MLB has lost value for one reason most teams run a 3-4 and dont need a true MLB. thank you i know im a genius.

[eagledrew13]

birdman#12, on 06 March 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Unbelievable.....

The middle linebacker is the most important player on defense.  Period.  He's the QB on defense, he sets the tone, establishes the swagger, leads the defense.

Spoken like somebody who doesn't know the first thing about defense.

Coverage, and pass rush will always be more important that ILB. If your defense is getting constant penetration, it effects both the run game and the pass game much more than a MIKE could ever do. In today's NFL, the MIKE is the least important position on a 4-3 defense and the ILB the least important in a 3-4.

[54lance]

kerriskazu, on 06 March 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

I don't know how good Conner, Tulloch or Hawthorne are at pass coverage, but these guys know how to command a defense, stuff the run without having to think about where to go. I love Kuechley and Hightower in this draft, but both of these guys will struggle in the 1st half of the season no matter how good they are or how high their ceiling is because their minds will be swimming. Drafting one of these guys to play SAM is a great option for their rookie season and possibly sliding over to MIKE a year or two later is the ideal situation IMO. It worked for Bradley and it would work for one of these young linebackers. I've said this in other posts, MIKE should be a veteran player period. I have no problem with the Eagles drafting the BPA at 15, but I would like to see a trade back up into round one for Kuechley or Hightower and at this point, Hightower would be the only reasonable option at the bottom of round 1. If they don't have opportunity, then I really love Ronnell Lewis at SAM in round 2. If Lewis is selected in round 2, I would follow up with Robinson from Texas to ensure the Eagles found a possible MIKE & SAM in one draft. Lewis is a beast and would be flat out nasty in the middle! But, can he cover? Robinson looks like he can cover fairly well, so there might be something there....

I agree 100%.  We need someone who runs the defense with confidence and authority.  While someone coming thru FA will have to learn the system (less so if it would be Tulloch) a rook coming in will have to learn the game at the pro level, while learning the system and learning how they stand in teh pecking order.  A vet at Mike is a must IMO.  It also gives more flexibility with the pick at #15.

[Dawkinsrocks20]

GangGreen*2011*, on 06 March 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

why is that? with the emergence of tight ends, linebacker value should be at an all-time high.
there are many elite run-blocking lb, but not many elite cover guys.

What the hell is a run-blocking LB?  I don't believe I've seen one of those.

[GangGreen*2011*]

Dawkinsrocks20, on 06 March 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

What the hell is a run-blocking LB?  I don't believe I've seen one of those.

It's a new mold of players that is a hybrid of offensive tackle and linebacker.

[we_gotta_believe]

bluto, on 06 March 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Here's the DEFINITION of "import" you nimrod:

consequence or importance: matters of great import.

http://dictionary.re...m/browse/import

http://dictionary.re...com/browse/joke

[60minutemen]

The problem is rule changes, The LB's have to adapt to the red tape.
Defenseless receiver rules takes liability away from the QB and forces the secondary to pretty much allow the receiver to catch the ball before engaging.
This is why players like Colt Anderson become a liability because they are hitters.
The emphases on the passing game supported by arena football rules create a handicap.
Making defenses look worse and offenses look better.
Exceptions and new schemes are reactionary.
You now need more coverage players.

2TE sets usually work.