BillySims

Why do people consider Terrell Owens so "talented?"

685 posts in this topic

You know that 38 years old is not exactly going to be your prime, right?

Ask the corners who played against a 28 year old TO what they thought about him. I can guarantee you no one said "slouch".

6th in yards, ever.

4th in TDs, ever.

What, exactly, is wrong with you that you could honestly believe that's possible with a lack of talent?

it's actually

2nd in Receiving Yards

6th in Receptions

2nd in Receiving Touchdowns

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it's actually

2nd in Receiving Yards

6th in Receptions

2nd in Receiving Touchdowns

Total TDs for non Qbs he's 4th, that includes RBs. I fixed the other one.

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To say he had below average speed is ridiculous, he just didn't accelerate fast. His top gear speed was a lot better than you are willing to give him credit for.

The reason they measure players over 40 yards is it's generally accepted football players won't have to run further than 40 yards often enough to where it's significant. Quarterbacks don't usually have long enough in the pocket to wait until a receiver is further than 30 yards down field. 50-100 yard speed isn't particularly relevant in football, or they'd measure it. I don't know how fast Owens is over longer distances, but I'm guessing he'd still be below average.

His lack of acceleration wasn't an issue for the most part due to the fact that there were, and still to this day are very few cornerbacks who can physically match Owens at the LOS. He has longer arms in comparison to most cornerbacks and safeties that played over the past two decades and he was bigger/stronger then the majority of them as well.

I've never seen anything mentioning he had long arms, but I'm not going to say you're wrong. Still not a talent.

How is he not naturally strong? One of the things he was best at was stiff arming defenders, requiring A LOT of natural strength.

Because he started out an absolute twig when he got to college. Because his max bench press is 260 pounds. That's why. That's tied with Redskins wide receiver Michael Westbrook, for starters, and he never dominated. There are quite a few receivers in the league stronger than Owens, and they didn't work out nearly as much.

I love how you bring up the point that he was the 12th WR taken in his draft class(3rd round, as you mention). How many D2 WR's go in the first round or second round even for that matter?

Owens wasn't division 2. He was division 1-AA. Jerry Rice is an example (1st round, 16th overall). There were others (though I don't know off the top of my head and don't want to go digging), but the reason there aren't many to have gone in the first two rounds is NFL-caliber talents don't usually go to division 1-AA schools. That's part of my point.

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You know that 38 years old is not exactly going to be your prime, right?

Ask the corners who played against a 28 year old TO what they thought about him. I can guarantee you no one said "slouch".

6th in receptions, ever.

4th in TDs, ever.

2nd in receiving yards, ever.

What, exactly, is wrong with you that you could honestly believe that's possible with a lack of talent?

Dwight Smith was a corner in 2002, and he was thoroughly unimpressed with Owens as a player.

Still clinging to the statistics in an effort to prove, "talent."

Who do you think was the more talented quarterback, Jeff Garcia, or Jeff George?

It sounds like anyone drafted after Owens pick (in any draft) and did well didn't have a lot of talent, but anyone drafted before his pick (in any draft) had a lot of talent. That's pretty much the qualifications that you are going with (unless they were really fast). So Tom Brady isn't very talented, but Michael Vick is (so is David Carr and Ryan Leaf). James Harrison and Bart Scott didn't have much talent, but Quinton Caver did.

No, Brady isn't as talented as Vick, Carr, or Leaf. But he's a much better quarterback than any of him. Carr and Leaf were loaded with talent, but they were busts. Because football isn't just about talent.

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Yup, very incorrect...that game wouldn't have been close if not for TO. And I'm sorry, but it's hard to call the Eagles' playoff run anything special when the championship game was against the Jim f'ing Mora and Mike Vick led Falcons.

Oh please, tool. First of all the Eagles scored ZERO pts in the SB on a drive where TO had a catch. ZERO.

And to call the Pats run anything special when everyone on the planet now knows they cheated and they havent won a thing since is laughable.

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Dwight Smith was a corner in 2002, and he was thoroughly unimpressed with Owens as a player.

Still clinging to the statistics in an effort to prove, "talent."

Who do you think was the more talented quarterback, Jeff Garcia, or Jeff George?

Is this serious? You discount the fact that he's top 2 or 5 in all important WR statistical categories, all time? What's the point of even talking to you then?

Yes statistics can be skewed, but there's a reason why the people considered the greatest of all time, typically have the best stats. Its not just some silly coincedence. You're dumb. Its the NFL, you need "talent" to be at that level to even begin with. You can say its "relative" but when his talent is "relative" to everyone else around him in the league, and he's got the best numbers EVER, then he's still clearly insanely talented.

You're an idiot.

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Is this serious? You discount the fact that he's top 2 or 5 in all important WR statistical categories, all time? What's the point of even talking to you then?

The fact that you don't know the difference between "performance" and "talent" speaks volumes. There's no point in you talking to me because you have your head up your a**.

Nobody is discounting that fact. But that fact is utterly meaningless when discussing talent.

You didn't answer my question. Who was more talented, Jeff George, or Jeff Garcia?

Or how about this one...how about John Elway vs. Joe Montana?

Yes statistics can be skewed, but there's a reason why the people considered the greatest of all time, typically have the best stats.

Greatest of all-time. Not the most talented of all-time. Nobody considers Jerry Rice the most talented wide receiver of all-time.

But numerous clueless fans and media apparently think Owens is, or is very close to being that.

Its not just some silly coincedence. You're dumb. Its the NFL, you need "talent" to be at that level to even begin with.

Nobody ever said otherwise. You can't even follow a very simple, basic argument.

You can say its "relative" but when his talent is "relative" to everyone else around him in the league, and he's got the best numbers EVER, then he's still clearly insanely talented.

Circular logic, once again.

"Why does Owens put up insane numbers? Because he's talented

How do we know Owens is talented? Because he put up insane numbers"

You're an idiot.

Projecting.

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Oh please, tool. First of all the Eagles scored ZERO pts in the SB on a drive where TO had a catch. ZERO.

And to call the Pats run anything special when everyone on the planet now knows they cheated and they havent won a thing since is laughable.

I never called the Pats run anything special, tool. If TO is not on the field, Belichick has ONE player to zero in on and that was Westbrook. Imagine how much easier life would have been if that were the case.

Shut up and learn the nuances of the game before you talk to me idiot.

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I never called the Pats run anything special, tool. If TO is not on the field, Belichick has ONE player to zero in on and that was Westbrook. Imagine how much easier life would have been if that were the case.

Shut up and learn the nuances of the game before you talk to me idiot.

HAHAHA What does that even mean? TO wasn't even on the field for half of the game. He was great when he was in there don't get me wrong but he had almost no effect on the score what-so-ever. Lol

Don't get mad because you look stupid. The Eagles scored in the red zone without TO twice and the other score was a pass to Greg Lewis that had nothing to do with TO.

Just be glad that McNabb was a choker and your team cheated.

Idiot.

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If one GM thinks it, you can be sure others do, too. One GM vs. fans and media? I'll take the GM's opinion.

Did you ever see what Dwight Smith (when he was with the Bucs) said about Owens?

Before the game, he said all of Owens' big plays came off blown coverages and missed tackles, and you never see him out-running anymore. And he mentioned that he's not even close to Moss.

After the Bucs defeated the 49ers in a 2002-03 divisional playoff game, Smith said the Bucs didn't need to double him, asking, "who's he going to go out-run? He couldn't even catch Ronde after the pick. We didn't need to double him."

A defensive back from the IFL said Owens was nowhere near as physical or fast as he was expecting him to be. This is an IFL player saying that.

Owens was voted "most overrated player" more than once in polls.

Revis called him a "slouch."

NFL defensive backs don't seem to have a whole lot of respect for Owens's talent, either. They only worry about his size and strength after the catch.

Well, now there's a great argument.

Do you see the word, "natural," in all the definitions you provided?

[/left]

No, they really don't.

No, I'm going to say you don't know how to comprehend what you read.

and T.Os natural ability was size and strength he was talented anyone who knows football will tell you that are you a Fing smartball clone? you both are so Fing clueless its actually hilarious

you even post the same **** multiple times like smartball

ask every single person on this board if T.O. had/has talent 99 percent of them will tell you he is one of the most talented WRs in NFL history as would about 85 percent of current and past NFL player/coaches/analysts / who ever else works with the NFL you dont play as well as T.O played and not have talent.

T.O is really talentless holding 16 NFL records


    • Currently, the only player in NFL history to score a receiving TD against all 32 NFL teams
    • Currently, the only player in NFL history to score 2 TDs against all 32 NFL teams
    • Oldest player to have a TD reception of 98+ yards (35 years, 350 days)
    • Oldest player to have a TD reception of 78+ yards (36 years, 300 days)
    • Oldest player to have a 200 yard receiving game (36 years, 300 days)
    • Consecutive Seasons with at least 6 or more touchdowns, 2000-2010 (11) - tied with Marvin Harrison 1996-2006, Jerry Rice 1986-1996, Cris Carter 1991-2001, Tim Brown 1991-2001, Don Hutson 1935-1945
    • Consecutive Seasons with at least 5 or more touchdown receptions, 2000-2010 (11) - tied with Marvin Harrison 1996-2006, Jerry Rice 1986-1996, Cris Carter 1991-2001, Tim Brown 1991-2001, Don Hutson 1935-1945
    • Consecutive Seasons with at least 5 or more touchdowns, 2000-2010 (11) - tied with Marvin Harrison 1996-2006, Jerry Rice 1986-1996, Cris Carter 1991-2001, Tim Brown 1991-2001, Don Hutson 1935-1945
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 4 touchdown receptions, 1996-2010 (15)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 4 touchdowns, 1996-2010 (15)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 3 touchdown receptions, 1996-2010 (15)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 3 touchdowns, 1996-2010 (15)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 500 receiving yards, 1996-2010 (15)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 750 receiving yards, 1997-2010 (14)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 40 receptions, 1997-2010 (14) - tied with Tony Gonzalez 1998-2011
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 35 receptions, 1996-2010 (15) - tied with Art Monk 1980-1994
    • One of six players to have at least 2 receptions of 90+ yards

he has franchise record set with The Eagles Most reception touchdowns in a single season: 14 (2004)

he has franchise record set with the cowboys Most receiving touchdowns in a single season: 15 (2007

he has a franchise record set with the Bills Longest reception touchdown: 98 (11/22/09 vs Jacksonville Jaguars)

other notably career accomplishments

5th player to reach 150 touchdowns

6th player to reach 1,000 career receptions,

6th player to reach 100 touchdown receptions,

6th player to reach 14,000 receiving yards

3rd player to reach 150 touchdown receptions

3rd player to reach 15,000 receiving yards

Tied for second all-time in receiving touchdowns with Randy Moss

Second all-time in receiving yards behind Jerry Rice

Sixth all-time in receptions

Second all-time in seasons with 13+ touchdown receptions with 7

Tied for third all-time in seasons with 50+ receptions with 13

yea a little or no talent player can accomplish all those achievements

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and T.Os natural ability was size and strength he was talented anyone who knows football will tell you that are you a Fing smartball clone? you both are so Fing clueless its actually hilarious

you even post the same **** multiple times like smartball

No, T.O. is naturally a twig. Even with the insane workouts he does, his max bench press isn't anything to write home about (260 pounds)

ask every single person on this board if T.O. had/has talent 99 percent of them will tell you he is one of the most talented WRs in NFL history as would about 85 percent of current and past NFL player/coaches/analysts / who ever else works with the NFL you dont play as well as T.O played and not have talent.

Appeal to public opinion. Fallacy.

Your stuff on the NFL players/coaches is unsubstantiated and there's evidence it's false. For one, Owens was repeatedly voted "most overrated" in random player polls.

T.O is really talentless holding 16 NFL records


    • Currently, the only player in NFL history to score a receiving TD against all 32 NFL teams
    • Currently, the only player in NFL history to score 2 TDs against all 32 NFL teams
    • Oldest player to have a TD reception of 98+ yards (35 years, 350 days)
    • Oldest player to have a TD reception of 78+ yards (36 years, 300 days)
    • Oldest player to have a 200 yard receiving game (36 years, 300 days)
    • Consecutive Seasons with at least 6 or more touchdowns, 2000-2010 (11) - tied with Marvin Harrison 1996-2006, Jerry Rice 1986-1996, Cris Carter 1991-2001, Tim Brown 1991-2001, Don Hutson 1935-1945
    • Consecutive Seasons with at least 5 or more touchdown receptions, 2000-2010 (11) - tied with Marvin Harrison 1996-2006, Jerry Rice 1986-1996, Cris Carter 1991-2001, Tim Brown 1991-2001, Don Hutson 1935-1945
    • Consecutive Seasons with at least 5 or more touchdowns, 2000-2010 (11) - tied with Marvin Harrison 1996-2006, Jerry Rice 1986-1996, Cris Carter 1991-2001, Tim Brown 1991-2001, Don Hutson 1935-1945
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 4 touchdown receptions, 1996-2010 (15)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 4 touchdowns, 1996-2010 (15)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 3 touchdown receptions, 1996-2010 (15)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 3 touchdowns, 1996-2010 (15)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 500 receiving yards, 1996-2010 (15)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 750 receiving yards, 1997-2010 (14)
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 40 receptions, 1997-2010 (14) - tied with Tony Gonzalez 1998-2011
    • Consecutive seasons with at least 35 receptions, 1996-2010 (15) - tied with Art Monk 1980-1994
    • One of six players to have at least 2 receptions of 90+ yards

he has franchise record set with The Eagles Most reception touchdowns in a single season: 14 (2004)

he has franchise record set with the cowboys Most receiving touchdowns in a single season: 15 (2007

he has a franchise record set with the Bills Longest reception touchdown: 98 (11/22/09 vs Jacksonville Jaguars)

other notably career accomplishments

5th player to reach 150 touchdowns

6th player to reach 1,000 career receptions,

6th player to reach 100 touchdown receptions,

6th player to reach 14,000 receiving yards

3rd player to reach 150 touchdown receptions

3rd player to reach 15,000 receiving yards

Tied for second all-time in receiving touchdowns with Randy Moss

Second all-time in receiving yards behind Jerry Rice

Sixth all-time in receptions

Second all-time in seasons with 13+ touchdown receptions with 7

Tied for third all-time in seasons with 50+ receptions with 13

yea a little or no talent player can accomplish all those achievements

Relative talent.

Yet another person who didn't even bother to read the thread before restating the same nonsense others have already stated.

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that is relative talent you dumbarse his career is football so everything I posted relates to football

Terrell Owens is 49th in bleacher reports rankings for top 90 players not in the hall of fame

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1250251-top-90-nfl-players-not-in-the-hall-of-fame/page/44

from ssterling sharpe

Sharpe on Owens: 'A lot of teams could use his talent'

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d82381ece/Sharpe-on-Owens-A-lot-of-teams-could-use-his-talent

and im sure i could find more but I have school and dont have the time to do so

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This might be the biggest FAIL thread I've seen in a while.

My first instinct reading it was that it was posted by TO fishing for compliments.

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This is a sad embarrassment. Give up Sims, you're getting destroyed by anyone and everyone, and you can't even fully understand what relative means.

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If one GM thinks it, you can be sure others do, too. One GM vs. fans and media? I'll take the GM's opinion.

Did you ever see what Dwight Smith (when he was with the Bucs) said about Owens?

Before the game, he said all of Owens' big plays came off blown coverages and missed tackles, and you never see him out-running anymore. And he mentioned that he's not even close to Moss.

After the Bucs defeated the 49ers in a 2002-03 divisional playoff game, Smith said the Bucs didn't need to double him, asking, "who's he going to go out-run? He couldn't even catch Ronde after the pick. We didn't need to double him."

A defensive back from the IFL said Owens was nowhere near as physical or fast as he was expecting him to be. This is an IFL player saying that.

Bucs played the Tampa 2, Tampa 2 does not double team

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Bucs played the Tampa 2, Tampa 2 does not double team

Actually, there are two safeties over the top in Tampa 2 at all times.

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Dwight Smith was a corner in 2002, and he was thoroughly unimpressed with Owens as a player.

Still clinging to the statistics in an effort to prove, "talent."

Who do you think was the more talented quarterback, Jeff Garcia, or Jeff George?

No, Brady isn't as talented as Vick, Carr, or Leaf. But he's a much better quarterback than any of him. Carr and Leaf were loaded with talent, but they were busts. Because football isn't just about talent.

you are clearly delusional with the above bold statement

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you are clearly delusional with the above bold statement

In terms of pure throwing, Brady pales in comparison to Vick, Carr, and Leaf.

But playing quarterback is about much more than pure throwing. Where Brady excels is in his mind for the game, his poise, his pocket presence, and his accuracy.

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In terms of pure throwing, Brady pales in comparison to Vick, Carr, and Leaf.

But playing quarterback is about much more than pure throwing. Where Brady excels is in his mind for the game, his poise, his pocket presence, and his accuracy.

like i said you are delusional i dont care what argument you have now it is clear to me..... they should not allow mental patients to have access to a computer

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whats next you going to say Brandon Graham and Vernon Gholston are more talented than Reggie White was?

or billy cundiff a more talented kicker than Adam Vinatieri?

or michael booker more talented than Revis?

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Donny without TO = Above Average running QB.

Donny with TO = HOF QB

Donny wihout TO again = Bum

Add to that, 'historic' game winning catches/plays in huge moments for one legendary team, another NFL 'Staple' team, and then a few great years with another legendary team with a mediocre QB.

And always the top receiver for the team he plays with, barring Jerry.

Then there's the little things. He's huge for a WR, can block, and draws coverage away from your other receivers and your RB/TE.

1 person likes this

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I've always thought people had the wrong perception of him, and one of the biggest ones is this idea that he somehow squandered something. Well, maybe his money, but he certainly didn't squander anything when it came to his football career.

On the contrary, I think Owens may be the biggest overachiever in the history of professional sports.

I don't know if anyone has ever actually watched him in practices, but if you did, you'd see that nothing he does comes naturally to him. He audibly grunts and groans every time he runs or makes a cut. He runs very sloppy routes. He struggles catching the football (we all know how many balls he drops). He has below average speed for a wide receiver. He's not really a great leaper, either.

When you add all of this up, you can see why he had to go to a division 1-AA school. You can see why he was the 12th receiver taken in the draft, 89th overall. He's just not all that naturally athletic.

Yet I hear people mention him in the same sentence as Randy Moss. He's really the furthest thing from Randy Moss. Moss was a national phenom, a big Deion Sanders. A one man show. If it hadn't been for his off field problems, he would have gone #1 overall in the draft.

He's more like Drew Pearson.

So what is it about him? It must be the physique. But do people honestly think that he just naturally has that great physique? That great physique of his was honed through years and years in the weight room. He wasn't born with 6 pack abs and an all-around chiseled frame. He worked for that. That's not talent, that's pure desire.

So many sided with Donovan McNabb during all the 2005 nonsense, but in that overblown "feud," one of those men was one of the most naturally gifted athletes at his position to ever play professional football. And that man was lazy and demonstrated a lack of dedication and underachieved. The exact opposite of the attributes possessed by the other man. And people sided with the former.

The power of media.

i sided with T.O i always thought mcnabb was fat and lazy, if mcnabb had half the work ethic T.O did mcnabb would still be here and more of a lock for the HOF, instead he's out of the league.

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i dont care what argument you have

This tells us everything we need to know about you.

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whats next you going to say Brandon Graham and Vernon Gholston are more talented than Reggie White was?

or billy cundiff a more talented kicker than Adam Vinatieri?

or michael booker more talented than Revis?

Uh, Reggie White was 6'5" 300 pounds, strong as a...not gonna say ox, because that's too cliche...strong as a really strong animal...and could run in the 4.6 range in the 40.

He would have been a high 1st round pick if it hadn't been for the USFL. In fact, White, Steve Young, Gary Zimmerman, and Mike Rozier were all projected to be Top 5 picks that year.

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I must have missed something over the past 16 or so years. When has anybody ever said that TO underachieved for his career? The only thing I've heard over that period of time is that he was one of the best receivers in the game and also an a-hole

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