32210 replies to this topic

[E v 2.0]

HughDawg, on 31 December 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

You used to make fun of me when I said no head coach had ever won a Super Bowl who threw the ball as much as Andy Reid.  You'd fire back with all of these little clever posts with ridiculous examples to try and show me that my point was ridiculous.  Stuff like "no team has ever won on a cloudy day with a 300lb coach when wearing black uniforms so surely it can't happen".

Aren't you doing the same thing?

Maybe.

Again I wouldn't be upset with Gruden but I'd look elsewhere first.

I sure as hell don't want Koetter as my first choice.

[Mike31mt]

E v 2.0, on 31 December 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

I'm talking about the fact that he doesnt stay at his jobs very long. And his last few years in Tampa that team went to ish.


Huh?

you said you wanted a "fresh name"....what does that mean?  Someone with no experience?  Someone who has never coached in the NFL?  A random towel boy?

[evilwaldo]

HughDawg, on 31 December 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

I'm not arguing anything you are saying.  My point is that team is so devoid of talent that all the motivation in the world doesn't singlehandedly get them into the playoffs.  Andrew Luck put that team on his back.  If Curtis Painter was still their QB then Arians would have won 3 games.

LOL wrong.

[austinfan]

HughDawg, on 31 December 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Well, you've done a 180.  I remember many a debate with you regarding Gruden when you said you didn't want him because 1) you thought that Super Bowl winning coaches didn't have the same fire at their next job and 2) you said he only won with Dungy's talent.

I listened to people like Tommy and didn't closely examine the situation in TB.
I had forgotten about the 2 1st rd picks, that crippled Gruden once that team got old.
But when he took over in 2002, he really had no other options but add veterans, the offensive cupboard was bare.  So he got an unfair rap, partially due to Gannon, Brown and Rice in Oakland, but again, there wasn't much there when he arrived.
(he inherited Jeff George, Kaufman at RB, Brown and John Jett, and Dudley at TE, he brought in Gannon, Tyrone Wheatley, and Rice, drafted Jon Ritchie, Mo Collins at LT then RG, Jon Stinchcomb at LT, as well as Eric Allen and Wilie T for the defense - had already turned the team around and went 12-4 before bringing in Charlie Garner after Reid let him walk, and the GOAT, turned Barry Sims, UDFA due to bad knee injury into his starting LT, Adam True, 3rd rd pick at C, Frank Middleton was picked up from Tampa for RG)

After 4 years in the booth, I think Gruden is hungry again, same reason I wouldn't hire Reid right now, I think HCs need to take time off, reexamine their priorities, and look at the game with a different perspective.  Many never go back, which means they made the right decision to leave.

[Mike31mt]

Solomon, on 31 December 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

The thing with Gruden is that he is a great coach and motivator, he really is, but he's terrible with talent evaluation. He would be good for a team close to competing who doesn't need many drafts to get there. We need a lot of help through multiple drafts. He isn't a guy who can build a team, he's a guy who can coach a built team.

Then hire a good scouting director

honestly, if youre overlooking a coaching candidate because he's not good at watching tape of college football players, than youre putting the cart before the horse

thats why you have a scouting department, to do that work for you

[evilwaldo]

HughDawg, on 31 December 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

1000% agree.  IMO he would be a terrible hire.  There are lots of great coordinators who fails as head coaches.  Why hire a mediocre coordinator?

What did Andy do as an OC before taking over?

[E v 2.0]

Mike31mt, on 31 December 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

you said you wanted a "fresh name"....what does that mean?  Someone with no experience?  Someone who has never coached in the NFL?  A random towel boy?

Fresh name as in a promising coordinator or a hungry young guy who will build a while new culture. A fresh start. A guy like Gruden or Cowher to me doesn't fit that.

As bad as it looks right now a guy that's fits Andy's profile when he was hired. Andy's first few years were extremely exciting and the culture he built in the beginning was exciting and new.

[WestPaEaglesNest]

Mike31mt, on 31 December 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

Than hire a good scouting director

honestly, if youre overlooking a coaching candidate because he's not good at watching tape of college football players, than youre putting the cart before the horse

thats why you have a scouting department, to do that work for you

You are missing the point.  Gruden wants to be the lone man in charge, he wants the ability to pick and choose players and coaches.  That is why Gruden failed in Tampa after 2002 and why he drafted them into the toilet.

[evilwaldo]

Indy has a strong defense and a very good #1 WR in Reggie Wayne.  To say the team is devoid of talent means you do not watch football.

[HughDawg]

evilwaldo, on 31 December 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

What did Andy do as an OC before taking over?

Nothing.  He wasn't an OC.

[evilwaldo]

HughDawg, on 31 December 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

Nothing.  He wasn't an OC.

Exactly which is why you should not complain about Atlanta's OC.

[HughDawg]

evilwaldo, on 31 December 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Indy has a strong defense and a very good #1 WR in Reggie Wayne.  To say the team is devoid of talent means you do not watch football.

Dude, the defense is marginally better than last year and they had Reggie Wayne last year too when they won 2 games.  Maybe I'm not giving Arians enough credit but Andrew Luck singlehandedly put that team on his back and carried them to 11 wins.

[Mike31mt]

Eagles need someone with a reputation, and who can kick some arse in the locker room

the only problem with hiring a newb would be that youd be putting a volatile locker room in the hands of an inexperienced leader....high risk for implosion

[evilwaldo]

HughDawg, on 31 December 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Dude, the defense is marginally better than last year and they had Reggie Wayne last year too when they won 2 games.  Maybe I'm not giving Arians enough credit but Andrew Luck singlehandedly put that team on his back and carried them to 11 wins.

Dude, they were 2-14 last year.  To say that Luck is responsible for 11 wins this year shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

[HughDawg]

evilwaldo, on 31 December 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Exactly which is why you should not complain about Atlanta's OC.

So, I can't say that I don't want someone as HC? And my opinion isn't just based on anecdotal evidence.  Arlington spelled it out.

Why don't you list all the rules for posting so that I can read them before I comment again?

[evilwaldo]

Mike31mt, on 31 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Eagles need someone with a reputation, and who can kick some arse in the locker room

the only problem with hiring a newb would be that youd be putting a volatile locker room in the hands of an inexperienced leader....high risk for implosion

That all depends on the coaching staff and if the problems stay.  If DRC goes and guys like Maclin and McCoy assert themselves then you are fine.

[justrelax]

WestPaEaglesNest, on 31 December 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

You are missing the point.  Gruden wants to be the lone man in charge, he wants the ability to pick and choose players and coaches.  That is why Gruden failed in Tampa after 2002 and why he drafted them into the toilet.

Getting Gruden from the Raiders was what sent the drafts into the toilet. Tampa gave up two #1s and two #2s. That's not all that far away from what Washington gave up to get RG3...and Tampa got no players out of it.

[Mike31mt]

WestPaEaglesNest, on 31 December 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

You are missing the point.  Gruden wants to be the lone man in charge, he wants the ability to pick and choose players and coaches.  That is why Gruden failed in Tampa after 2002 and why he drafted them into the toilet.

The giant diamond ring on his finger is telling me that he is a decent NFL talent evaluator

Id be fine with taking the chance that he has learned from his mistake and that he'd hire some people to help him with that.

[austinfan]

Actually, the reason TB went to shissht is three fold
1) the two 1st rd picks sacrificed for Gruden
2) he inherited an old team, no young players on offense, key players on defense, Sapp, Quarles, Lynch were 31 in 2002.
3) bad draft picks and bad luck, Clayton and Williams had great rookie seasons and never repeated them due mostly to injury.  However, most of the misses were on defense, which is the GM and Kiffin.

They hit rock bottom in 2006, then he got the offense from 211 points to 361 points in two years with Jeff Garcia and went 9-7 both years.

[HughDawg]

evilwaldo, on 31 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Dude, they were 2-14 last year.  To say that Luck is responsible for 11 wins this year shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

For all the crying you're doing I'd bet with a gun to your head Bruce Arians wouldn't even be in your top 5 coaching choices.

[mattwill]

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