258 replies to this topic

[PickFoles]

"Right now we're with Michael. We'll evaluate it as we go."

Watch every press conference over the last ten years, and you'll hear Andy use this phrase at least once. You'll also notice that all of the things that are supposedly being evaluated (most commonly, the failure to properly utilize the run game) never change. This quote is meaningless, and anyone who thinks it hints at the possibility of Nick Foles starting hasn't been paying attention.

With Mike Vick, we may win 7 out of 16. With Nick Foles, we'll win 4 or 5.

Player: Pre-season QB rating / Regular season QB rating

Ryan Perrilloux: 150.7 / NOT STARTING
Jerrod Johnson: 136.2 / NOT STARTING
Byron Leftwich: 131.1 / NOT STARTING
Richard Bartel: 127.5 / NOT STARTING
John Beck:  125.8 / NOT STARTING
Alex Smith: 123.6 / 102.7 (-20.9)
Sage Rosenfels: 122.9 / NOT STARTING
Rex Grossman: 119.9 / NOT STARTING
Tony Romo: 117.1 / 89.3 (-27.8)
Matthew Stafford: 116.9 / 83.5 (-32.8)
Sam Bradford: 116.3 / 85.4 (-30.9)
Josh Johnson: 115.3 / NOT STARTING
Matt Schaub: 113.3 / 102.4 (-10.9)
Matt Ryan: 112.4 / 114.0 (+1.6)
Drew Brees: 111.7 / 77.0 (-34.7)
Charlie Batch: 110.8 / NOT STARTING
Russell Wilson: 110.3 / 81.1 (-29.2)
Nick Foles: 110.1 / NOT STARTING

Do you notice any trends here? With the exception of Matt Ryan (whose targets include Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, and Michael Turner), all of the top pre-season QBs have had a huge dropoff in QB rating or are not even starters. That's because teams don't use their actual defensive schemes during preseason.

Out of the teams Nick Foles played against, here are their current rankings in average passing yards allowed per game:

Steelers: 5th
Patriots: 24th
Browns: 27th
Jets: 10th

You'll notice that the two games he looked the best in (Patriots + Browns) were against horrible passing defenses. Only 6 of his 40 preseason completions came against the Steelers, and the Jets had none of their starters in for his 4 completions against them. Overall, only 10 of his 40 preseason completions came against good pass defenses.


In short, Nick Foles' preseason stats are even more meaningless than your average meaningless preseason stats.

[Jblah]

I agree that preseason stats don't mean anything. BUT to assume that Nick Foles is worse than Vick is irrational. You haven't seen what he can do with this offense. Is he going to be great from the get-go? Probably not. but there has to be a time when you say enough is enough with the turnovers and give it to Foles.

[D-Shiznit]

I just want to see what Foles can do so in case he sucks, we can move on and maybe trade up to draft a young QB like Barkley/Geno/Wilson/Murray/ the guy from VT or who ever.

[aspiritfall]

Foles might come in and be terrible... I doubt 9 turnovers in 3 games but at least hes not a 10 year vet...

[Pallidrone]

The problem right now is turnovers, plain and simple.

Vick is staying the pocket too long, making bad reads and bad decisions.

The question is can Foles make quick decisions, have less turnovers and get the ball out quickly before the pocket collapses?

He showed some of that in pre-season, which is why people are looking at him. The stats are meaningless, but the intangibles are not.

[BtotheH]

D-Shiznit, on 24 September 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

I just want to see what Foles can do so in case he sucks, we can move on and maybe trade up to draft a young QB like Barkley/Geno/Wilson/Murray/ the guy from VT or who ever.

This exactly! I would hate to just release Vick after the season and name Foles the starter only to see him crash next year and our season be over again. Foles starting would at least give us some idea of how he does with the starters against premier teams in the NFL.

[madriver]

Edwards is better than both of them at this point.

[zenclaybourne]

And once again you provide no evidence that he is worse than mike vick, just that he is an unknown quantity, which directly conflicts with your thread title and only idiots would argue against. We won't know what Foles is until we see him play in a real game.

[bobrdld]

^{dude, you are a dope.  "Nick Foles is worse".  How the F do you know?  None of us has any idea how he would do.  I will say that he at least releases the ball in less than 7 seconds after the snap.  Vick's got issues.  He's not playing well.  Regardless of the blocking, play calling, etc....He is not playing anywhere near a high level.  He's a turnover machine.  I don't know if Foles would do better but Vick is NOT leading this team to the post season if he keeps playing the way he's playing.}

[PickFoles]

zenclaybourne, on 24 September 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

And once again you provide no evidence that he is worse than mike vick, just that he is an unknown quantity, which directly conflicts with your thread title and only idiots would argue against. We won't know what Foles is until we see him play in a real game.

Explain to me why over half of the QBs on that list are not being tried out by their respective teams? They're all unknown quantities, right?

It's because they f***ing suck, just like Nick Foles.

[Nik Sneak]

While that certainly is true.. you assume Nick Foles hasn't progressed over the past month. You also assume the playcalling and gameplanning would be the same as well. Could be.. but Andy Reid has a history of calling better/more balanced gameplans with his back up QBs. I also guarantee things would get more conservative. More 3 step drops, screens, and faster developing plays is exactly what this offense needs right now. Feed the players the ball and we have enough talent at our skill positions to score enough points. Give Vick until the bye.. look at your record, any game to game progression. If things continue south.. what could it hurt?

[DawkinsOwnage03]

Kolb > Vick

[zenclaybourne]

learn2reid, on 24 September 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Explain to me why over half of the QBs on that list are not being tried out by their respective teams? They're all unknown quantities, right?

It's because they f***ing suck, just like Nick Foles.

You are making a statement with absolutely no evidence to support your cause, which is an improvement over the racist reasons you previously provided but still not good enough. If you can't see the contradiction in your post, I feel bad for you.

I'm not going to bother looking up who each and everyone of those players play for but for a few if not all, it would be because they are playing behind QBs that are performing as a starter should.Perrilloux is behind Eli, Johnson, Batch and Leftwich are behind Big Ben and Rex is behind RG3. All three of whom have thrown for more TDs and far less INTs than Vick this season.

Not to mention of course that Foles was actually playing against starters for much of the preseason and not just backups like so many of these other players.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

Foles will be here next year, Vick wont.

[PickFoles]

zenclaybourne, on 24 September 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

You are making a statement with absolutely no evidence to support your cause

No, that's actually what you're doing.

There are plenty of ways to figure out whether a player is good or not without trying them out in a regular season game. That's why teams have what are known as "scouts."

[Biggs]

bottom line is putting Foles in wont save the season or reids job. It will be veiwed as a sign of pure desperation and the final nail in the coffin for reid.

solving the 'qb issue ' isnt the answer the the problem... the PLAYCALLING is the obvious issue... and they will continue to struggle no matter who is behind center.

the wheels have fallen off...  get ready see them at 2-4 at the bye.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

learn2reid, on 24 September 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

No, that's actually what you're doing.

There are plenty of ways to figure out whether a player is good or not without trying them out in a regular season game. That's why teams have what are known as "scouts."

You said Kolb sucked.  LOL

[folesgirl]

Kolb was ahead of Vick for a reason.  Vick got hot, Andy road it, and Kolb is gone.  Long term it doesn't change the fact that Kolb was better than Vick.  So long term equals Kob > Vick.

Foles value is unknown, but so far he looks to have much better arm strength than either of those fools, better accuracy, quick decision making, the ability to learn from his mistakes, and he's 2 or more inches taller than both of them.   Therefore, long term = Foles > Kolb > Vick.  I also believe Vick < a second round draft choice.

If anyone is going to be turning the ball over 3 or more times a game, it should be a rookie learning the ropes, not a vetern hung up in them.

Bench Vick for a game, the only thing it's gonna hurt is his pride, and we can see what we're working with.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

folesgirl, on 24 September 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Kolb was ahead of Vick for a reason.  Vick got hot, Andy road it, and Kolb is gone.  Long term it doesn't change the fact that Kolb was better than Vick.  So long term equals Kob > Vick.

Foles value is unknown, but so far he looks to have much better arm strength than either of those fools, better accuracy, quick decision making, the ability to learn from his mistakes, and he's 2 or more inches taller than both of them.   Therefore, long term = Foles > Kolb > Vick.  I also believe Vick < a second round draft choice.

If anyone is going to be turning the ball over 3 or more times a game, it should be a rookie learning the ropes, not a vetern hung up in them.

Bench Vick for a game, the only thing it's gonna hurt is his pride, and we can see what we're working with.

This, the team cant be any WORSE with Foles.  Only the same or better.  A decade in and Vick still cant presnap read a blitz.

[PickFoles]

DawkinsOwnage03, on 24 September 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

You said Kolb sucked.  LOL

Yeah, and he does.

If you think Kevin Kolb is the reason the Cardinals won on Sunday, you're a dumba***.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

learn2reid, on 24 September 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Yeah, and he does.

If you think Kevin Kolb is the reason the Cardinals won on Sunday, you're a dumba***.

Kolb > Vick

[Chocolante]

I think Vick focuses on not turning the ball over so much is doing a helluva job,  I sometimes don't know what hell he is looking at... It's depressing!

[PickFoles]

DawkinsOwnage03, on 24 September 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Kolb > Vick

Lol, I hope you don't vote or homeschool your kids.

[CountBlah]

Nick Foles is an unknown.   Vick is a known. No one can possibly say Foles would be worse than the turnover machine we have now.  Besided, the ONLY time Reid has shown ANY ability to come come down from his pass happy high is when another QB has come in to spell an injured/ineffective McNabb.

[Westyis2Underrated]

learn2reid, on 24 September 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

No, that's actually what you're doing.

There are plenty of ways to figure out whether a player is good or not without trying them out in a regular season game. That's why teams have what are known as "scouts."

Your idiocy continues to impress people.

You literally respond to peoples posts by ignoring everything they say and make dramatic claims as if you know absolutely anything about football.

You don't.

Here are 2 facts for you:

Vick isn't playing well.

You have no idea how good or bad Foles is.  None.

Using other back ups preseason stats to prove that a rookie sucks is perhaps one of the most insane and hilarious things I've ever seen.

You literally stray far from logic that it's impossible to bring you back to earth.

You will be awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

learn2reid, on 24 September 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Lol, I hope you don't vote or homeschool your kids.

Dont get mad at me because Kolb > Vick.

Record breaking amount of turnovers, a 99 yard fumble return for a TD.  99 YARDS FUMBLE RETURN FOR A TD!  "dynasty"

[[TSM]_PimpDaddyPain]

Reid will get any QB we have killed, that's the bottom line.  We knew we were in trouble months ago when Peters went down yet we didn't try to trade for a good vet LT and didn't draft one til day 3.

[Nik Sneak]

DawkinsOwnage03, on 24 September 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

Dont get mad at me because Kolb > Vick.

Record breaking amount of turnovers, a 99 yard fumble return for a TD.  99 YARDS FUMBLE RETURN FOR A TD!  "dynasty"

learn2reid, on 24 September 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Yeah, and he does.

If you think Kevin Kolb is the reason the Cardinals won on Sunday, you're a dumba***.

Well he didn't turn the ball over and he managed to lead an offense with a stagnant run game to enough points to beat us.. So I would say he played a big part in them winning.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

11 turnovers in THREE games

/thread

[Westyis2Underrated]

Nik Sneak, on 24 September 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Well he didn't turn the ball over and he managed to lead an offense with a stagnant run game to enough points to beat us.. So I would say he played a big part in them winning.

Yeah but it's way easier to throw insults at any human being with a different opinion than his.  It's also really easy when you ignore every logical post that is made showing another reasonable point of view.

Some people are too illogical to form opinions, so some people just have to make them up.