42 replies to this topic

[f_dallas]

I found Celek's quote interesting.

Quote

On whether the meeting was directed by a few players or was more general discussion: "It’s everybody and if you have something to say, say it. We’re all a team here. Everyone on this team should be a leader and everyone has the right to talk and if they want to say something, say it."

Is this part of the problem, Dave?  We know this team has had a leadership vacuum in recent seasons.  While "everyone being a leader" is all well and good in theory, do you not need leaders on a team?  

It just sounds so bizarre.  They had a meeting that was officially led by no one, where everyone was "being a leader", and they just took turns airing their grievances?  Is this a hippy commune or a locker room?  I don't know how you can be an effective team if you don't have a group of guys everyone agrees are not equal...guys who command the respect of the team or players other team members look to for guidance or strength when things aren't going well.

[zenclaybourne]

"When everyone is special, no one will be." Now let's apply that same logic to leaders...

[mjkvol]

Amazing - if ever there was an indictment of what a faceless group, completely devoid of character, this is, that quote pretty much seals the deal.

[patpikunas]

Huge leadership vacuum here, on both sides of the ball.... has been very evident for the past few years

[CaliEagle]

Players only meetings almost never work.  When is the last time it has worked and a team has dramatically improved?  It's a sign of desperation and self-doubt.  This thing is coming apart at the seams.

[PoconoDon]

Why is it necessary for players to have their own meeting?

What possible problem could exist on a football team, that only the players can solve?

What problem could exist on a football team, that the head football coach can't solve?

Oh, could it be that only a few approach the game the right way?

That would indicate a flaw in character, which is an issue that should have been resolved in training camp.

A player who's not in it 100% for his team mates, and his coaching staff, and the franchise, and the fans...well,....he gets cut.....not coddled.

If that's the problem, then who picked these kind of guys and who will hold them accountable?

A:  The same guy who doesn't hold himself accountable. The Head Football Coach/GM/V.P. of Football Operations.....that's who picked them, and that's who panders to them, rather than lead them like he should.....or cut them when he must.

When these things happen, It's clearly a cry for leadership.....because the players aren't getting any from the top....so some feel obligated to try to fill that void....and it never really works.

So what can we expect now....that all of a sudden, here in week 8 of the regular season....the Philadelphia Eagles are going to magically become a team?

Look, I respect the players who give it their all.....whether stars or even when they're not that good....and if those guys are trying to light a fire under the "get-bys", so be it......but the H.C. is supposed to set the standard...and enforce it.

Publicized players only meetings reflect poorly on the coaching staff in my opinion, and always will.

[KOJO]

A rudderless ship....

[mjkvol]

PoconoDon, on 01 November 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

Publicized players only meetings reflect poorly on the coaching staff in my opinion, and always will.

One thing I'll bet is a stone cold fact - no truly good team has ever had the need for a mid season players only meeting.

[PoconoDon]

mjkvol, on 01 November 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

One thing I'll bet is a stone cold fact - no truly good team has ever had the need for a mid season players only meeting.

I think it happens on good teams too, but the key is that they are NEVER publicized...we don't hear about them....as it should be.

When it's out in the open, that's a different kind of thing going on.....and it ain't good.

It looks like Reid and his team are done.....it's just a matter of time now.

[wyo_eagle_fan]

PoconoDon, on 01 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

I think it happens on good teams too, but the key is that they are NEVER publicized...we don't hear about them....as it should be.

When it's out in the open, that's a different kind of thing going on.....and it ain't good.

It looks like Reid and his team are done.....it's just a matter of time now.

What little enthusiasm I had, sunk when I heard Celek say that. How can every team member be a leader?? Sheesh.

[f_dallas]

wyo_eagle_fan, on 01 November 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

What little enthusiasm I had, sunk when I heard Celek say that. How can every team member be a leader?? Sheesh.

I'm sure you know the answer already, but the reality is this kind of mindset can only set in when there are no leaders.

Take their defense...the only two guys with any history of leadership capability are Jenkins and Ryans.  Both of them are, essentially, mercenaries on this team.  I imagine Jenkins is gone after this year and Ryans has a chance to take over that role after he's here long enough, but leadership takes time to cultivate.

On offense, Vick should be the leader, but he's not playing well and he, again, hasn't been in his role very long.  I truly believe you can't be a leader if you aren't playing you haven't proven your worth to the team over a period of time by excelling at your role.  That's not the only element to it, but if other guys don't respect what you do and believe in you on the field, they can't follow you or defer to you off of it.  After Vick, the next guy up would probably be Shady, but he's still young and doesn't seem like a "leader" to me.

What about special teams?

It's a bad situation.  A lot of things were different when this team used to be relevant, but think about the faces of the team.  McNabb, early on, was a franchise player and a playmaker who often put the under-talented offense on his back.  Say what you will about him, but that team knew their prospects every week on offense came down to what Donovan was able to do for them.  Trotter.  Dawkins.  Runyan.  Tra.  Hugh.  Duce.  Chad Lewis.  Ike Reese.  Troy Vincent.

Any one of those guys would be the best leader on this team and they were all on the same roster.  The guys on the roster right now are more talented than the 53 guys on the roster back then, but they are gutless, whiny, individuals with no concept of what it's like to be a team and no one to show them.

I like Celek and I'm not killing him...he's not the problem.  What he said explains it all, though, whether he understood that or not.

[dnabbrules]

Even funnier is ESPN's bottom line was reporting that Vick texted Sal Pal to tell him about the meeting and that he is back.  One Play and One Game at a time.  bwahahahaha

This team never ceases to amaze.  Why did he have to text Sal Pal?

Reid should cut Babin today for his relentless attack on the fans, it's not like the defense is going to miss his 2.5 sacks and 16 tackles.

Nine more games and the end will be here.

[CT Eagle]

This is where you guys overplay your hand.  You try to turn a positive into a negative.

[SamEaglesFan]

CT Eagle, on 02 November 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

This is where you guys overplay your hand.  You try to turn a positive into a negative.

We would be happier if we could see the positive on the field this year.  There is no need to be optimistic after what we have seen thus far.  This bunch could easily be 0 for the season and they are acting like a meeting will change their crappy play.  One of the big problems is that they have not shown this year that they are any good at all.  I would love for them to rally and play better, but I think it is more likely that the wheels come off completely.

[f_dallas]

CT Eagle, on 02 November 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

This is where you guys overplay your hand.  You try to turn a positive into a negative.

I don't think so.  I don't think a players-only meeting is a positive or negative in and of itself.  It's a meeting.  If they finish the season strong, everyone in the media will talk about this meeting as the moment that turned things around and if they don't, it will be completely forgotten.  That's how these things tend to work.

When I look at this team, I try to figure out how they can be so much more talented (overall) than the 2003 team, for example, and perform so much worse, I have to look at what's different.  In 2003, they had leadership...that's a tangible difference.

[CT Eagle]

CT Eagle, on 02 November 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

This is where you guys overplay your hand.  The total lack of objectivity and the obvious predictable negative bias on everything dilutes your main arguments.

[MR-CYN]

This whole section is nuttier than a porta potty at a penut festival.

[CT Eagle]

f_dallas, on 02 November 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

When I look at this team, I try to figure out how they can be so much more talented (overall) than the 2003 team, for example, and perform so much worse, I have to look at what's different.  In 2003, they had leadership...that's a tangible difference.

They were 6-10 in 2005 despite having leadership.

[f_dallas]

CT Eagle, on 02 November 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

They were 6-10 in 2005 despite having leadership.

I think we all remember what happened in 2005 and I'm not sure any amount of leadership could have overcome it.  We can look at the totality of their record from 2000-Dawk's departure and see a general decline in overall success as the leaders on the team slowly worked their way toward retirement or free agency, though.

Serious question, though...who are the leaders of this team?

[patpikunas]

CT Eagle, on 02 November 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

They were 6-10 in 2005 despite having leadership.

Not a good comparison in 2005... that was the year TO went haywire, numerous injuries, and in my opinion, the beginning of the undoing of the Reid empire.

[CT Eagle]

patpikunas, on 02 November 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Not a good comparison in 2005... that was the year TO went haywire, numerous injuries, and in my opinion, the beginning of the undoing of the Reid empire.

Perfect example actually.  What did Dawkins and Trotter do as team leaders to keep the team together ?

[patpikunas]

CT Eagle, on 02 November 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Perfect example actually.  What did Dawkins and Trotter do as team leaders to keep the team together ?

They got Reid to get rid of TO for one... What exactly are you disputing now?

[CT Eagle]

patpikunas, on 02 November 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

They got Reid to get rid of TO for one... What exactly are you disputing now?

Just saying that the team has a lot of issues but I don't believe that a lack of leadership is one of them.  They called a players only meeting and people here are using that as an opportunity to bash the team.  I think it is stupid.  While I don't think the meeting will have an impact on the team and it is likely too little too late, the fact that they had a meeting is nothing but a good thing.

[Highboy]

CT Eagle, on 02 November 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Just saying that the team has a lot of issues but I don't believe that a lack of leadership is one of them.  They called a players only meeting and people here are using that as an opportunity to bash the team.  I think it is stupid.  While I don't think the meeting will have an impact on the team and it is likely too little too late, the fact that they had a meeting is nothing but a good thing.

WTF? So answer the question that was asked to you then, who is the leader on this team? Its not a conspiracy CT, we don't have to look for reasons to bash the team, the reasons are right in front of everyone's face.

[BDawk_ASamuel]

Yeah, I think most of you have hit on it in here. It's a true sign of desperation. Having players air out their grievances isn't going to make Vick hold onto the ball any better or help the defense not give up big plays. This isn't some company where you can just have a sit-down with a few employees, air it out, and get back to normal again. They are what they are at this point.

[f_dallas]

CT Eagle, on 02 November 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Perfect example actually.  What did Dawkins and Trotter do as team leaders to keep the team together ?

Perfect example?  Which player is the once-in-a-generation atom bomb blowing up the locker room and bathouse fighting with the Badassador this time around?

[f_dallas]

CT Eagle, on 02 November 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Just saying that the team has a lot of issues but I don't believe that a lack of leadership is one of them. They called a players only meeting and people here are using that as an opportunity to bash the team. I think it is stupid.  While I don't think the meeting will have an impact on the team and it is likely too little too late, the fact that they had a meeting is nothing but a good thing.

Not at all...I'm not bashing them for having a team meeting.  I'm saying Celek's quote might reveal one of the reasons they had to have a meeting in the first place.  If "everyone is a leader", you don't have any leaders...that's not just something I made up.  Leadership is important.

[mjkvol]

CT Eagle, on 02 November 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

This is where you guys overplay your hand.  You try to turn a positive into a negative.

Name a championship team ever, in any team sport, that had no natural leaders - I'm not talking about ones brought in and expected to fill that role.

Not piling on, CT, but you're off base on this one - it has nothing to do with bashing the team, and everything to do with identifying one of the reasons this team has become what it is -  a mediocre mess.

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 02 November 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

Name a championship team ever, in any team sport, that had no natural leaders - I'm not talking about ones brought in and expected to fill that role.

Not piling on, CT, but you're off base on this one - it has nothing to do with bashing the team, and everything to do with identifying one of the reasons this team has become what it is -  a mediocre mess.

The 2012 SF Giants for starters
The Florida Marlins (all mercenaries)
The Miami Heat
Unless you are spending time with the team....saying they don't have natural leaders or saying lack of leadership (by the players) is a reason the team is a mediocre mess.....or using a snippet of a quote from Celek....all just throwing ****te againg the wall and seeing what might stick....

[CT Eagle]

f_dallas, on 02 November 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Not at all...I'm not bashing them for having a team meeting.  I'm saying Celek's quote might reveal one of the reasons they had to have a meeting in the first place.  If "everyone is a leader", you don't have any leaders...that's not just something I made up.  Leadership is important.

I don't think you can draw that conclusion