54 replies to this topic

[Vex]

Baynit, on 02 November 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

come at me im all ears as to what intelligent things you morons have to say???

Lets start Foles he'll take us to the Super Bowl.  Defense sucks start Foles, line cant block start Foles, Reid cant control his team start Foles.....

Start Foles its the duct tape of the tate boards...It fixes everything.

A defend Vick thread hidden as a Jason Peters thread. Gotcha.

Nobody thinks Foles is going to come in and fix everything. For some reason all the Vick defenders keep chanting this. Is Vick going to be here next year? No. So put in the rookie, to see how he progresses. Figure out if we continue with Foles, or if QB is our biggest need in the off season. It's really not hard to figure out why people want Foles to start.

[Baynit]

The thing is I never really expected much of Vick, you guys are trying to justify that big contract and I agree his play clearly has not lived up to the money we gave him.  But he's far from the problem, theres far more wrong with this team than him being just an average QB who's got fumbleitis.

1. The coaching staff - saints have proven how important this area is, not just for calling the game but keeping the team together.  Heck Reid couldnt even keep this team together in a year when the team was supposed to rally around him after Garretts od.
2. the defense (all of them)
3. the offensive line

then i'd group the rest of the problems like special teams play, Vicks turnovers, Jeremy Maclin are you there?

[BlackPooL]

Vex, on 02 November 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Is Vick going to be here next year? No. So put in the rookie, to see how he progresses. Figure out if we continue with Foles, or if QB is our biggest need in the off season. It's really not hard to figure out why people want Foles to start.

Giving Foles 9 games behind a garbage O-Line doesn't prove much to me.  It certainly wouldn't be enough IMO to decide if you need to draft a QB next year, or put your eggs into Foles basket.  Also no real benefit to letting Foles play under Andy if you want Reid gone next year anyway.  This season isn't a wash just yet.  I'm looking forward to ultimately seeing what a Foles led offense would look like, but I'm in no rush.  I can wait till next year, or give him a couple games at the end of the year if the Eagles are sitting at 5-9 or something.

Besides, at the end of the day, Vick or Foles...neither one can win if the D is going to play like it did on Sunday.  Peyton Manning in his prime would have had a near impossible time keeping up when the Defense lets the other team score on EVERY SINGLE DRIVE until 5 mins remaining in the 4th Q.

[gaitherfan]

BlackPooL, on 02 November 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Giving Foles 9 games behind a garbage O-Line doesn't prove much to me.  It certainly wouldn't be enough IMO to decide if you need to draft a QB next year, or put your eggs into Foles basket.  Also no real benefit to letting Foles play under Andy if you want Reid gone next year anyway.  This season isn't a wash just yet.  I'm looking forward to ultimately seeing what a Foles led offense would look like, but I'm in no rush.  I can wait till next year, or give him a couple games at the end of the year if the Eagles are sitting at 5-9 or something.

With our OL play overall, I'd also hate to see the David Carr effect on a rook like Foles.

[Baynit]

Vex, on 02 November 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

A defend Vick thread hidden as a Jason Peters thread. Gotcha.

Nobody thinks Foles is going to come in and fix everything. For some reason all the Vick defenders keep chanting this. Is Vick going to be here next year? No. So put in the rookie, to see how he progresses. Figure out if we continue with Foles, or if QB is our biggest need in the off season. It's really not hard to figure out why people want Foles to start.

maybe you dont think Foles will come in and fix everything but theres quite a few posters around here that think he's the answer.  And yea I agree if the season continues down the current path yea you got to throw Foles in there against first team defenses to see what he can do.  You just dont want to do that too soon and he stumbles his way to a 5-3 record and saves Andy's job.

[Vex]

gaitherfan, on 02 November 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

With our OL play overall, I'd also hate to see the David Carr effect on a rook like Foles.

That's the other thing. When any other QB has been in besides Vick..the O-line didn't look as bad. I'm highly curious if the line would perform better with Foles in there.

[fanatik]

Baynit, on 02 November 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

I dont think some of you realize how much Peters means to this offense.  Its not his pass protection which sometimes borders on average to bad.  Its his run blocking and how well he can get downfield on screens and sweeps.  This alone would cause our opponents to commit to defending McCoy more.  All anyone does to beat us is blitz 5 or 6 and drop 5 or 6 into coverage, they arent concerned about screens or a running game at all.

Even when the Fat man and his idiot sidekick have attempted to run this year McCoy has been contained.  Anything he has done he's gotten by sheer effort on his own.  With Peters in there you give your QB more time to allow the vertical passing attack his pass happy coaches use.  Opponents have to think twice before they blitz for fear of the screen....

Dont give me this garbage about Vicks release time and how its the longest in the NFL, the reason it is, is because all the vertical passing plays we usually use.

It's not just Peters. Kelce's injury v. BAL really gave us the problems we have at this moment.

Our OL's a sieve.

[sirvalence]

Baynit, on 02 November 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

it is your an idiot who fails to watch the game you just see Vick fumble and think its his fault, you failed to look into it any deeper.

Some one who does not know the proper use of your and you're has no right to be calling anyone an idiot.

[Robert Van Winkle]

I just can't believe we are watching this season which had Superbowl or bust written all over it, flush down the toilet because of the few injuries on the O line. Granted, The D line has sucked too, but opposing offenses haven't really set the world on fire for the most part (except ATL.) Fin sad state of affairs man ....

[Utebird]

Baynit, on 02 November 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

I dont think some of you realize how much Peters means to this offense.  Its not his pass protection which sometimes borders on average to bad.
.

funny you start your thread with, I dont think you realize, then go onto state how bad a pass blocker peters is.

I think you fail to realize what a great pass blocker peters has been the last couple of years. Jason Peters was the best OL in football last year, if i had a league mvp vote i would have given it to peters last year, he was dominant, and its been mentioned many times on here what a big loss he was to the offense in the running and passing game.

[biglou22]

Utebird, on 02 November 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

funny you start your thread with, I dont think you realize, then go onto state how bad a pass blocker peters is.

I think you fail to realize what a great pass blocker peters has been the last couple of years. Jason Peters was the best OL in football last year, if i had a league mvp vote i would have given it to peters last year, he was dominant, and its been mentioned many times on here what a big loss he was to the offense in the running and passing game.

Ive been watching the NFL since 1972 and that literally was 1 of the most dominant OL performances I had ever seen from any OL by Peters last year.
Some of the old timers could knock the crap out of a defensive players in run blocking like Peters did last year, but I never seen an OL destroy so many defensive players on screens and flare passes like Peters did last year.
For fans of the OL that isolate on their play like I do, it was a year for the ages. For the fans that pay no attention to the OL you missed probably the most dominating performance by a single player in many many many years last year.
Put it this way. As great a year JPP had (I thought he was easily the best defensive player in the NFL last year), I thought Peters performance was better.
Literally off the charts.

[EagleArcher20]

biglou22, on 03 November 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

Ive been watching the NFL since 1972 and that literally was 1 of the most dominant OL performances I had ever seen from any OL by Peters last year.
Some of the old timers could knock the crap out of a defensive players in run blocking like Peters did last year, but I never seen an OL destroy so many defensive players on screens and flare passes like Peters did last year.
For fans of the OL that isolate on their play like I do, it was a year for the ages. For the fans that pay no attention to the OL you missed probably the most dominating performance by a single player in many many many years last year.
Put it this way. As great a year JPP had (I thought he was easily the best defensive player in the NFL last year), I thought Peters performance was better.
Literally off the charts.

I agree, even though I haven't been alive as long as you or been watching the Eagles NEARLY as long. I tuned in last year excited to watch Peters and McCoy more than Vick, Jackson and the rest of the "skilled" players.  Peters on any given run/screen could and did block 2-3 guys.

One could only imagine what this OL would have been like if Shawn Andrews would have stayed healthy. He was able to do what Peters did last year.

[forevereagles]

Lloyd, on 02 November 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Sounds like more Vickscuses to me.

No worries though. Whether you love him or hate him, he'll be gone in 2013. You can bet on that.

Yup!
2 more months and our misery will be over ...finally!

[Baynit]

I'll say it again rather than constructively talk about the topic you guys have chosen to bash me because I feel Peters is at best an average pass protector.  You've failed to grasp that I was trying to show you guys his importance is more in the run and screen game than as a pass protector.

Lets put it like this, if we would play Peters on passing downs only, that means he must come out of the game on screens and run plays.  Mike Vick would still be under duress and harassment every pass play with Peters in there.  Having Peters in there for the run and screen game then in turn helps the passing game because opponents need to think twice before blitzing thus giving our QB more time to WAIT FOR HIS RECIEVERS TO GET DOWNFIELD BECAUSE A VERTICAL PASSING GAME IS WHAT HIS PASS HAPPY COACHES EMPLOY.  

[joey_eagles75]

Im just waiting on peters to come back, damn all that other crap people on here is talking about.

[cmart102]

Baynit, on 02 November 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

Peters sucks in pass protection, he gets beat for sacks fairly often and is usually guilty of a false start or two a game.

Dude pretty sure he didn't have a false start all last year, and gave up 1 sack all year at least according to football outsiders who i trust a hell of a lot more than you

[AllHailDawk]

Baynit, on 03 November 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'll say it again rather than constructively talk about the topic you guys have chosen to bash me because I feel Peters is at best an average pass protector.  You've failed to grasp that I was trying to show you guys his importance is more in the run and screen game than as a pass protector.

Lets put it like this, if we would play Peters on passing downs only, that means he must come out of the game on screens and run plays.  Mike Vick would still be under duress and harassment every pass play with Peters in there.  Having Peters in there for the run and screen game then in turn helps the passing game because opponents need to think twice before blitzing thus giving our QB more time to WAIT FOR HIS RECIEVERS TO GET DOWNFIELD BECAUSE A VERTICAL PASSING GAME IS WHAT HIS PASS HAPPY COACHES EMPLOY.  

    You are just all over the place in this thread man.  You keep restating yourself as though people don't understand what you're saying.  We all do.  It's like you're assuming that the only reason a person would disagree with you is that they don't understand you.  Here is why we're disagreeing with you:  You are wrong.  No part of Peters' game is average.  We are hearing you, understanding you, and telling you that your premise is wrong.  Move on

[mike030270]

It doesn't take Stephen Hawking to figure out that the Oline sorely misses Peters

[flylikean....]

Baynit, on 02 November 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

come at me im all ears as to what intelligent things you morons have to say???

Lets start Foles he'll take us to the Super Bowl. Defense sucks start Foles, line cant block start Foles, Reid cant control his team start Foles.....

Start Foles its the duct tape of the tate boards...It fixes everything.

i think most sane fan dont believe Foles will take us to the SB. Most believe we are done, we know there is no future with Vick so why not see what we have with Foles

[CharGP02A]

Baynit, on 03 November 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'll say it again rather than constructively talk about the topic you guys have chosen to bash me because I feel Peters is at best an average pass protector.  You've failed to grasp that I was trying to show you guys his importance is more in the run and screen game than as a pass protector.

Lets put it like this, if we would play Peters on passing downs only, that means he must come out of the game on screens and run plays.  Mike Vick would still be under duress and harassment every pass play with Peters in there.  Having Peters in there for the run and screen game then in turn helps the passing game because opponents need to think twice before blitzing thus giving our QB more time to WAIT FOR HIS RECIEVERS TO GET DOWNFIELD BECAUSE A VERTICAL PASSING GAME IS WHAT HIS PASS HAPPY COACHES EMPLOY.  

You're absolutely wrong about Jason Peters being an average at best pass protector. Show me some proof.

[IBYCFOTA]

Baynit, on 03 November 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'll say it again rather than constructively talk about the topic you guys have chosen to bash me because I feel Peters is at best an average pass protector.  You've failed to grasp that I was trying to show you guys his importance is more in the run and screen game than as a pass protector.

That's such a bizzare way to attempt to highlight a player's strength. It's like saying that Aaron Rodgers has a weak arm, and when you get called out on it saying that you were just trying to emphasize how accurate he was.

[biglou22]

EagleArcher20, on 03 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

I agree, even though I haven't been alive as long as you or been watching the Eagles NEARLY as long. I tuned in last year excited to watch Peters and McCoy more than Vick, Jackson and the rest of the "skilled" players.  Peters on any given run/screen could and did block 2-3 guys.

One could only imagine what this OL would have been like if Shawn Andrews would have stayed healthy. He was able to do what Peters did last year.

You calling me an OLD FART ??? lol

You are correct. The 1st thing I watched on 100% of EVERY play last year was Peters. I really have never seen anything like it.
What a pleasure.

[mike030270]

So he's eligible for practice but they have 3 weeks to decide to put him on active roster? With this record and the way the Oline is, do you put him in for the end of the season?(assuming he's cleared by doctors and very healthy)

[BIGPHILLY]

Who said Jason Peters wasn't a gigantic loss?

[greend]

Baynit, on 02 November 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

I suppose I was just trying to illustrate how much more important he is in the run game.



you guys are just looking at stats, sacks allowed is a terrible stat thats at the mercy of the NFL statistician its not an accurate stat....