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Question On The New Overtime Rules


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#1 TenOfSwords

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:56 AM

Say the Eagles and the Saints go to overtime Monday night.

The score is tied 27-27 after regulation.  The Saints win the toss, drive down and kick a field goal to make it 30-27.

If, on the Eagles' ensuing possession, Vick throws an interception, can the Saints run it back for a TD and officially win 36-27?

#2 dmac5

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:29 AM

View PostHaroldTheSecond, on 03 November 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Say the Eagles and the Saints go to overtime Monday night.

The score is tied 27-27 after regulation.  The Saints win the toss, drive down and kick a field goal to make it 30-27.

If, on the Eagles' ensuing possession, Vick throws an interception, can the Saints run it back for a TD and officially win 36-27?

I believe the game is over as soon as the INT occurs since it's a change in possession. I might be wrong, though.

#3 Gmen4ever

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:35 AM

View PostHaroldTheSecond, on 03 November 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Say the Eagles and the Saints go to overtime Monday night.

The score is tied 27-27 after regulation.  The Saints win the toss, drive down and kick a field goal to make it 30-27.

If, on the Eagles' ensuing possession, Vick throws an interception, can the Saints run it back for a TD and officially win 36-27?

Yes, the game is over. Both teams have had a possession. Here is the rule

A.R. 16.15 INTERCEPTION
Third-and-5 on A30. On the opening possession of overtime, B2 intercepts a pass at the 50 and returns it for a touchdown.
Ruling: Game over. Team B wins. Each team has had an actual possession.

#4 cowboy30

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:32 AM

I would think they would have to still wait to blow the play dead and wait for the defender to go down or get tackled. So if he runs it back, maybe...but then that means you can score 9 or 10 in O.T...? (That's kind of stupid)

So maybe not.

#5 EagleJoe8

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:49 AM

I wondered this myself. I think it would be over right away.

#6 Hoagie

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:00 AM

I think it's similar to what happens if you intercept a pass on a 2pt conversion.. play is dead, can't score out of it.

#7 EAGLES8690

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:56 AM

View PostHoagie, on 03 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

I think it's similar to what happens if you intercept a pass on a 2pt conversion.. play is dead, can't score out of it.
I always thought that was some bull****,there should still be some risk going for 2.

#8 RPeeteRules

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:42 PM

I think the game would be over when the play is over.  So if Saints returned it for a TD, they would win by 9.

If the Saints intercepted it and then fumbled the ball and the Eagles recovered but didn't score, then I think the game would be over with the Saints winning by 3.  That would certainly be an interesting scenario to see happen in any game.  The following controversy would be fun to see.

#9 Hoagie

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:29 PM

View PostEAGLES8690, on 03 November 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

I always thought that was some bull****,there should still be some risk going for 2.

I agree completely.

#10 MichaelWMS

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 02:36 PM

Surely you wouldn't get anyone running back to try and score and risk fumbling the ball when the change of possession wins the game anyway?

#11 EagleJoe8

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 02:40 PM

View PostMichaelWMS, on 04 November 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Surely you wouldn't get anyone running back to try and score and risk fumbling the ball when the change of possession wins the game anyway?

I think that's why the play would be dead once the ball is picked off. The INT would signal the end of the 2nd team's possession, and therefore the game, even if they fumbled it back.

#12 Eagles3785

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 02:59 PM

i don't see how they can blow a play dead if the defender INT's a pass and doesn't go down on his own or isn't tackled

#13 EagleJoe8

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

View PostEagles3785, on 04 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

i don't see how they can blow a play dead if the defender INT's a pass and doesn't go down on his own or isn't tackled

Same way they blow a play dead on a 2 point conversion try. Once picked off, the play is over. In OT, once a ball is picked off, the 2nd team's possession is over regardless of what happens afterwards.

#14 Eagles3785

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:25 PM

View PostEagleJoe8, on 04 November 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Same way they blow a play dead on a 2 point conversion try. Once picked off, the play is over. In OT, once a ball is picked off, the 2nd team's possession is over regardless of what happens afterwards.

when did they change that 2 point conversion rule...i thought at 1 time if the other team returned it they got the 2 points

#15 VaBeach_Eagle

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

View PostHaroldTheSecond, on 03 November 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Say the Eagles and the Saints go to overtime Monday night.

The score is tied 27-27 after regulation.  The Saints win the toss, drive down and kick a field goal to make it 30-27.

If, on the Eagles' ensuing possession, Vick throws an interception, can the Saints run it back for a TD and officially win 36-27?
36-27, the game doesn't end until the current play is concluded. Not in the middle of a play.

View PostEagleJoe8, on 04 November 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Same way they blow a play dead on a 2 point conversion try. Once picked off, the play is over. In OT, once a ball is picked off, the 2nd team's possession is over regardless of what happens afterwards.
The difference between a PAT (or two point conversion) is that it's an un-timed down. So it's over when the try fails. A timed down doesn't end until the play ends.

#16 VaBeach_Eagle

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:34 PM

View PostMichaelWMS, on 04 November 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Surely you wouldn't get anyone running back to try and score and risk fumbling the ball when the change of possession wins the game anyway?
The only risk would be a turnover that results in a score going the other way. If the intercepting player then fumbles it after running with it and the other team gets the ball back and doesn't score, the game is over right there because each team had a possession and only one of them scored on their possession.

The team that threw the interception had their initial possession end when the interception was completed. The fumble would then be a new possession and without a score, the game ends.

#17 EagleJoe8

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:35 PM

View PostEagles3785, on 04 November 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

when did they change that 2 point conversion rule...i thought at 1 time if the other team returned it they got the 2 points

I think it's a college rule. There has never been a time when the defense could score on a 2PC try in the NFL.

#18 EagleJoe8

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:37 PM

View PostVaBeach_Eagle, on 04 November 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

36-27, the game doesn't end until the current play is concluded. Not in the middle of a play.

The difference between a PAT (or two point conversion) is that it's an un-timed down. So it's over when the try fails. A timed down doesn't end until the play ends.

It's an interesting question since the scenerio hasn't yet come up, but since the 2nd team's possession ends with the turnover, I would think the game would end as well.

#19 VaBeach_Eagle

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

View PostEagleJoe8, on 04 November 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

It's an interesting question since the scenerio hasn't yet come up, but since the 2nd team's possession ends with the turnover, I would think the game would end as well.
On an untimed down, I'd agree. But since it's just a regular play, the refs don't blow the whistle until the play ends. Now, if this were to happen, I think there's a 99.99% chance that the intercepting player would just flop on the ground or run out of bounds. But if he didn't, then there would be no reason for a whistle to be blown.

If you blow the whistle and end the game as soon as the player intercepts then you're not allowing the other team a chance of causing a turnover on that play that could result in a TD for them and then give them the win because the other team only scored a FG.

They must allow the play to continue because the game hasn't been decided and until the play ends, anything can happen that could change the result of the game.

#20 EagleJoe8

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostVaBeach_Eagle, on 04 November 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

On an untimed down, I'd agree. But since it's just a regular play, the refs don't blow the whistle until the play ends. Now, if this were to happen, I think there's a 99.99% chance that the intercepting player would just flop on the ground or run out of bounds. But if he didn't, then there would be no reason for a whistle to be blown.

If you blow the whistle and end the game as soon as the player intercepts then you're not allowing the other team a chance of causing a turnover on that play that could result in a TD for them and then give them the win because the other team only scored a FG.

They must allow the play to continue because the game hasn't been decided and until the play ends, anything can happen that could change the result of the game.

That's the thing though. Once intercepted, the possession is considered over. Both teams would have had a chance to score, and one failed on their possession. If the intercepting team fumbled it away, they'd be allowing them a second possession.

#21 VaBeach_Eagle

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:23 PM

View PostEagleJoe8, on 04 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

That's the thing though. Once intercepted, the possession is considered over. Both teams would have had a chance to score, and one failed on their possession. If the intercepting team fumbled it away, they'd be allowing them a second possession.
Does the rule actually say the play ends at the instant of the INT? If the INT results in the play ending without a score due to a flop or going out of bounds then yes, the game is over there. But if the play is still running, then the game is still running. There's no play in the NFL that ends instantly on a turnover unless it's an untimed, PAT or 2 point conversion.

From what I can see, the rules don't specify that the game ends instantly on the turnover.

http://www.nfl.com/n...-overtime-rules

A key thing that the rule doesn't say is that there can't be a 2nd possession by each team. It only says that unless the first team scores a TD on it's first possession, the other team must have an opportunity to possess.

Quote

» Following a three-minute intermission after the end of the regulation game, play will be continued in 15-minute periods until a winner is declared. Each team must possess or have the opportunity to possess the ball unless the team that has the ball first scores a touchdown on its initial possession. Play  continues in sudden death until a winner is determined, and the game automatically ends upon any score (by safety, field goal, or touchdown) or when a score is awarded by the Referee for a palpably unfair act. Each team has three time-outs per half and all general timing provisions apply as during a regular game. The try is not attempted if a touchdown is scored. Disqualified players are not allowed to return.

So the number of possessions isn't limited unless the first team scores a TD on it's first possession.  

So from my reading and understanding:

Team A scores a FG on it's first possession.

Team B gets the ball and throws an INT.

Both teams have had a possession, as required by the rule. From there, there is no rule saying that the game is over at that instant.

If the player from Team A that got the INT then gains full control and is hit causing a fumble that is in turn recovered by Team B and Team B returns the fumble for a TD (all still the same play) then Team B wins.

If Team B doesn't return it for a TD and runs out of bounds or is tackled (on that same play), the game is over and Team A wins.

That's how I read the rule and so far can't find anything saying that there is a limit of two "possessions" and a turnover on possession #2 ends the game instantly.

#22 EagleJoe8

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:34 PM

View PostVaBeach_Eagle, on 04 November 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Does the rule actually say the play ends at the instant of the INT? If the INT results in the play ending without a score due to a flop or going out of bounds then yes, the game is over there. But if the play is still running, then the game is still running. There's no play in the NFL that ends instantly on a turnover unless it's an untimed, PAT or 2 point conversion.

From what I can see, the rules don't specify that the game ends instantly on the turnover.

http://www.nfl.com/n...-overtime-rules

A key thing that the rule doesn't say is that there can't be a 2nd possession by each team. It only says that unless the first team scores a TD on it's first possession, the other team must have an opportunity to possess.



So the number of possessions isn't limited unless the first team scores a TD on it's first possession.  

So from my reading and understanding:

Team A scores a FG on it's first possession.

Team B gets the ball and throws an INT.

Both teams have had a possession, as required by the rule. From there, there is no rule saying that the game is over at that instant.

If the player from Team A that got the INT then gains full control and is hit causing a fumble that is in turn recovered by Team B and Team B returns the fumble for a TD (all still the same play) then Team B wins.

If Team B doesn't return it for a TD and runs out of bounds or is tackled (on that same play), the game is over and Team A wins.

That's how I read the rule and so far can't find anything saying that there is a limit of two "possessions" and a turnover on possession #2 ends the game instantly.

It's such an unlikely scenerio that they didn't include it. I guess we'll find out the first time it happens.

#23 VaBeach_Eagle

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:36 PM

View PostEagleJoe8, on 04 November 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

It's such an unlikely scenerio that they didn't include it. I guess we'll find out the first time it happens.
I'd go so far as to say that in 10,000 games, you'd never see that happen lol. I really think that since the rules don't address it, the refs would let the play run to it's conclusion. There's no other provision that I know of to just instantly end a game in the middle of a play, aside from the 2 pt conversion or PAT situation.

#24 FranklinFldEBUpper

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:55 PM

I would think that the play wouldn't end at the point of the interception. I would assume that they would allow the play to continue to its natural conclusion. I know for a fact that this is what happens in college with their silly overtime procedure. In college, if team A scores and then team B turns the ball over on their possession, team A is allowed to return it for a touchdown. In other words, college overtime games can have a margin of victory of greater than 8 points. I remember seeing this happen a number of years ago.

#25 AceofSpades

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:38 AM

I can't stand this Brett Favre rule on OT. The only reason the NFL wanted to change the OT rules was because their pipe dream of a Brett Favre/Peyton Manning Super Bowl was ruined because he never got to touch ball in OT in the NFC Championship. My feeling has always been you have 4 quarters to make enough plays to win a game so therefore OT should be sudden death.If you can't make enough plays on offense, defense, or special teams in order to win the game, then you don't deserve to win. Of course people will disagree and I'm fine with that.

#26 djbigf

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:43 AM

send an email to NFL Network analyst Donovan McNabb - he's their designated OT rules expert.

#27 Dawkins 20

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:22 AM

View Postdjbigf, on 10 November 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

send an email to NFL Network analyst Donovan McNabb - he's their designated OT rules expert.
"What I like to do is save my energy in the first overtime so I can come out strong in the second."

#28 djbigf

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:32 AM

View PostDawkins 20, on 10 November 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

"What I like to do is save my energy in the first overtime so I can come out strong in the second."
"What if the Super Bowl ends in a tie?"

#29 AceofSpades

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:29 PM

Dashon Goldson and Danny Amendola are the new McNabbs as they didn't know why people were leaving the field yesterday.

#30 rocketman44

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:16 AM

I don't especially like the new OT rule either, but my solution would have been simply that each team gets one possession. If the score is still tied after that, sudden death.