62 replies to this topic

[Kasanova King]

Let me start off by saying that this is not just another bash Mike Vick and start Nick Foles thread.  Mike Vick is playing to the best of his ability and he is giving it his all out on the field - that, even the worst of the anti - Mike Vick fans can clearly see.  Unfortunately, because of certain circumstances outlined below, he is not getting the job done.  Nick Foles will....and here's why:

1. The o-line is absolutely decimated.  Mike Vick IS NOT a quick release QB.  He needs at least 3 seconds or more to make an accurate pass - with the o-line in the state that it is, he IS NOT going to get it - at least most of the time, anyway.  Nick Foles IS a quick release QB and will get the ball out in 3 seconds or less.

2. The Eagles best receivers are about 6 feet tall (or less).  Mike Vick is 6 feet tall and can barely see his best targets down field.  With the pressure he is getting, he is rarely making accurate passes to them in the pocket and usually only connects to them if he has to roll out or on broken plays.  Nick Foles is 6'6 and will easily be able to see his best targets down field - while in the pocket.  This fact alone should lead to a much higher completion % to his best targets.

3. At 3-5 the Eagles still have a chance to make the playoffs (especially with the state of the division).  If they continue with Vick, they may win a few games here and there, keeping hopes up but in the end - NOTHING of the above will change and they will end up losing in the end.  Nick Foles gives this team a legitimate chance to win - and to win into the playoffs.

4. As bad as the o-line and the defense have been playing, long story short, Mike Vick HAS STILL been making horrible decisions and costly turnovers in the red zone.  These turnovers are complete game and momentum changers.  They have a huge impact on the morale and the enthusiasm of the team - on both the offense and defense.  After those turnovers last night, it was almost as if a completely different (heartless) team was playing.

5.  Mike Vick has been so rattled that even when he does get decent protection and time to throw, he has been missing targets - like Maclin in the end zone last night.  It's almost as if he's so excited that he actually has time to throw that he's blasting and over/underthrowing the ball.

6. Nick Foles has been studying and watching this offense (both good and bad) all season.  He knows the weaknesses of the o line and has been watching the mistakes (and what works as well) from a 3rd party perspective all season.  It would be like starting a young and ready 6'6 assistant coach with a gun for an arm.

7.  The o-line, in the state that it is in, boast several players 6'8 or above.  How can you realistically expect a 6'0 qb not to have issues seeing above the line - especially when the pocket is collapsing half the time and he can barely see which one of the linemen have been beaten, in order to avoid the rush.  At 6'6, Foles should easily be able to see over the line and see where the pressure is coming from.

8.  Mike Vick (although he is getting better at it) still has yet to clearly read a defense and call audibles consistently enough in order to avoid getting rampaged in certain blitz schemes.

9.  At this point, what do the Eagles have to lose??  It is obvious that they are in a losing free fall.  The team is not playing anywhere near their potential and although Mike Vick is playing his heart out, because of the reasons mentioned above (and others) he just isn't a good fit for this team at this time.  Starting Foles would create a win-win situation for both Mike Vick and the Eagles.  Mike Vick still has a ton of respect around the league and the national media.  Most of the blame of this team's failures this year has been placed on Andy Reid, not Vick.  If he is benched now, he will still have plenty of teams looking to sign or trade for him next season.  If they continue to start him, more of his weaknesses will be exposed and he risks the possibilty of injury - given the state of the o-line and his playing style.  The Eagles would get at least a 3rd (or better) round pick for him, and he would most likely go to a team where his style would actually work.  The Eagles, in return, could determine if Nick Foles is the quarterback of the future or if they need to start looking for a qb in the draft, etc.

10.  Nick Foles is the prototypical QB Andy Reid has been looking for....for the past 14 years.  He is big, strong, intelligent and has a strong arm (the one thing Kolb didn't).  He is the perfect fit for this offense and because of his physical attributes, will overcome the weaknesses of this team (in terms of the height of the o-line and the height of the primary WR's).  Nick Foles could take this team to the playoffs....and beyond.

[JonnyEagles69]

I am traffic80 and I approve this message.

[eephraim]

How can Foles get the ball out in 3 seconds when takes that long for 7 step drop? He'll die behind this line.

DIE.

[AP]

 eephraim, on 06 November 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

How can Foles get the ball out in 3 seconds when takes that long for 7 step drop? He'll die behind this line.

DIE.

You ever thought that maybe Vick drops back 7 steps is because he is too short to see over the line for the quick 3 step slants?

[InfiniteSeriesN]

 eephraim, on 06 November 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

How can Foles get the ball out in 3 seconds when takes that long for 7 step drop? He'll die behind this line.

DIE.

look on the bright side, at least then the stupidity of insisting on putting a rookie QB behind this historically bad line would end.

[The Mammoth]

As Gruden said last night: If you want to take Mike Vick out of the starting position, you'll give up 10 sacks a half with this line.

[Kasanova King]

 eephraim, on 06 November 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

How can Foles get the ball out in 3 seconds when takes that long for 7 step drop? He'll die behind this line.

DIE.

Exactly...it's called 7 steps and pass....not 7 steps, still look around and then start running for your life.  Plus he's 6'6, 245 lbs, he's bigger and probably tougher than half of the guys on the other side of the ball.

[eaglesboy12]

And after Nick Foles fails andy will pull the most desperate move in nfl history and suit up for QB himself

[ChimpKelly]

Vick played well last night.  The only thing that needs changing is the oline

[AP]

 phillyphan754, on 06 November 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Vick played well last night.  The only thing that needs changing is the oline

How is a fumble and a pick 6 playing well? Is that the level of expectations of Vick? Whoops, forgot the 77 to DJax.

[54lance]

By my count 6.5 of your 10 points are problems with Vick that I won't necessarily disagree with but not necessarily strenght that Foles has.  We just don't know how Foles will preform under the kind of pressure he wiill no doubt get playing behind what we are forced to call our OL.

My concern with putting Foles in now is you wind up with a David Carr situation where he will be so shell shocked come next year that he could be ruined going forward as a NFL QB.

I don't think Foles should be subjected to this kind of disrespect and punishment unless it's forced by an injury to Vick.  My fear would be if Vick gets hurt, foles might not be far behind.

[judunno]

Foles would get crushed behind this OL.  Wouldn't even be fair to put him out there.

[Kasanova King]

 The Mammoth, on 06 November 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

As Gruden said last night: If you want to take Mike Vick out of the starting position, you'll give up 10 sacks a half with this line.

Gruden is a color commentator and part of his job is to say statements in order to illicit a response - both positive and negative.  If you actually look at Gruden's time as a head coach - he was quick to pull a starting qb when he wasn't getting the job done.

 phillyphan754, on 06 November 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Vick played well last night.  The only thing that needs changing is the oline

Vick played to the best of his ability last night but saying he played well and was only able to put up 13 points against the worst defense in the league is just plain wrong.  He still gave up huge turnovers in the redzone, missed open receivers in the end zone and still did not audible enough during the game to avoid all out blitz schemes.  Like I said, he's just not a good fit for this team at this time.

[LaxPlayerX3]

 54lance, on 06 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

By my count 6.5 of your 10 points are problems with Vick that I won't necessarily disagree with but not necessarily strenght that Foles has.  We just don't know how Foles will preform under the kind of pressure he wiill no doubt get playing behind what we are forced to call our OL.

My concern with putting Foles in now is you wind up with a David Carr situation where he will be so shell shocked come next year that he could be ruined going forward as a NFL QB.

I do think foles should be subjected to this kind of disrespect and punishment unless it's forced by an injury to Vick.  My fear would be if Vick gets hurt, foles might not be far behind.

Foles played behind a terrible line in college. He's one of the only rookies I'd trust in there.

[AP]

 judunno, on 06 November 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

Foles would get crushed behind this OL.  Wouldn't even be fair to put him out there.

So when would it be fair? When they get all All Pros for the Oline? The QB also dictates how well the Oline plays by the decisions he makes.

[Kasanova King]

 54lance, on 06 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

By my count 6.5 of your 10 points are problems with Vick that I won't necessarily disagree with but not necessarily strenght that Foles has.  We just don't know how Foles will preform under the kind of pressure he wiill no doubt get playing behind what we are forced to call our OL.

My concern with putting Foles in now is you wind up with a David Carr situation where he will be so shell shocked come next year that he could be ruined going forward as a NFL QB.

I don't think Foles should be subjected to this kind of disrespect and punishment unless it's forced by an injury to Vick.  My fear would be if Vick gets hurt, foles might not be far behind.

I totally hear and understand what you are saying but realistically, I believe that Foles knows how to pick up a blitz and get rid of the ball quickly.  Once teams realize this, they will be forced to drop back into pass protection vs. rushing 8+.  Plus, his mere size gives me assurance that even if he is hit, he won't get hurt easily.  The guy is 6'6, and close to 250 lbs!

[Kasanova King]

 AP, on 06 November 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

So when would it be fair? When they get all All Pros for the Oline? The QB also dictates how well the Oline plays by the decisions he makes.

Exactly.  Foles is a "quick release" qb, like he demonstrated in college and in the preseason.  Once teams start getting beat by over blitzing, etc, they will be forced to drop back and pass protect, giving Foles even more time to pass.  It's pretty simple, actually.

[eaglefan78]

 Kasanova King, on 06 November 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Exactly.  Foles is a "quick release" qb, like he demonstrated in college and in the preseason.  Once teams start getting beat by over blitzing, etc, they will be forced to drop back and pass protect, giving Foles even more time to pass.  It's pretty simple, actually.

Shh. We don't want to hurt Vick's fragile ego.

[TenaciousEagles]

The future QB of the Eagles will come from the 2013 draft.  Book it.  Do you think a new coach is going to trust Roseman's evaluation of Foles?  Really?

[Kasanova King]

 eaglefan78, on 06 November 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Shh. We don't want to hurt Vick's fragile ego.

By this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Vick would agree with me.   Look at what his own brother was tweeting last night for example.  It's pretty obvious that he's just not a good fit for this team - especially with this o-line.  He is better suited for a team with a different o-line scheme and bigger and taller WR's.

[Kasanova King]

 TenaciousEagles, on 06 November 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

The future QB of the Eagles will come from the 2013 draft.  Book it.  Do you think a new coach is going to trust Roseman's evaluation of Foles?  Really?

I actually think that Foles could be the answer.  If he is named the starting QB now, this team could turn it around and possibly even make a playoff push.  If that's the case, then he and Reid both stay.

[sflomenb]

The reason I wouldn't start Foles is because of you have one of the fastest QBs in the game and he's knocked on his a** after every play, what makes you think a SLOWER QB will have more success?

[Kasanova King]

 sflomenb, on 06 November 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

The reason I wouldn't start Foles is because of you have one of the fastest QBs in the game and he's knocked on his a** after every play, what makes you think a SLOWER QB will have more success?

It has very little to do with speed.  As a matter of fact, the only time speed helps is when the opponent's defense respects the offense.  - Then, and only then, his speed helps because he can run or create broken plays because opponent's defenses are back in pass protection.

As of now, defense's are licking their chops when it comes to playing the Eagles.  They know that Mike Vick is not a quick release qb and that he needs time to make accurate passes.  They know that if they rush 7 or 8, they will get to him because of 2 things: A.  He usually fails to audible or use his quick outs and B. He just doesn't get the ball out quickly enough. Foles is a quick release qb and will force defense to drop back into pass protection, giving him more time EVEN with this offensive line.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

The only point to start Foles at this point is to see if we have to go QB with our first pick in the draft.

[Kasanova King]

I

 DawkinsOwnage03, on 06 November 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

The only point to start Foles at this point is to see if we have to go QB with our first pick in the draft.

Actually, I really think it gives the team a better chance to win.

[FloridaBill]

One reason and the most important to not start Foles... I don't want to take the chance of Foles having success, winning games and Reid is here next year. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thank you!

[Sean Jerz]

 judunno, on 06 November 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

Foles would get crushed behind this OL.  Wouldn't even be fair to put him out there.

This

[odin8888]

Foles would fair better, but prefer he start with new headcoach that will push and support him without all the sideshows.

Release Vick, and any players not willing to STFU and play team ball and give 110% every play. Vick has no trade value, so better to release him...
Seems he might see it as a favor anyway.

[ChimpKelly]

 AP, on 06 November 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

How is a fumble and a pick 6 playing well? Is that the level of expectations of Vick? Whoops, forgot the 77 to DJax.

The fumble was bad, the pick 6 simply wasn't his fault.

[PhillyGreek]

 Kasanova King, on 06 November 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Exactly...it's called 7 steps and pass....not 7 steps, still look around and then start running for your life.  Plus he's 6'6, 245 lbs, he's bigger and probably tougher than half of the guys on the other side of the ball.

7 steps... dude all game long he was getting hit below 3 secs.... on a few plays it was sub second

imagine one on thousan.... boom

That line deserves to be lined up an shot. Foles will have less than 2 secs EVERY play to get rid of the ball.

regardless of Vick or Foles or even if we had Payton or whomever... behind this current line we are looking at getting them killed... simple as that. How they made mediocre D-lineman look like Pro-bowlers is beyond me. Wait till Dallas next week... it will be a masacre... hell even Washington's front 7 is going to absolutely gouge our offense.