40 replies to this topic

[TheRealTruth]

We've seen it often in the NFL. Old, tenured coach is fired, and a new coach comes in and has immediate success.

Jim Johnson fired...Switzer wins SB
Tony Dungy fired...Gruden wins SB
Eric Mangini fired...Ryan gets Jets to two consecutive AFC Championship games
Bill Cowher retires...Tomlin gets to two SBs, winning one

There are more examples but I cannot think of any off top of my head.

Is it possible for a new coach to come in here, with the current players in place (reasonable roster turnover), and immediately turn this ship around?

[wrestlevessel]

No. Eagles are cursed.

[cmart102]

With this group of me first individuals? I'm leaning towards no

[birdgang21]

_{I don't think any coach can win with that offensive line. Reynolds, Kelly, and Bell are all practice squad quality guys. Dunlap and Mathis second string quality. Pressing our small receivers no time to let them take advantage of their speed and get deep downfield}

[NJWolverEagle11]

cmart102, on 07 November 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

With this group of me first individuals? I'm leaning towards no

why half the team is going to be gone

[PrinceKelby]

NJWolverEagle11, on 07 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

why half the team is going to be gone

Going to be hard to replace half the team on one of the youngest teams in the league.  Vick and Aso will be gone or seriously restructured which should allow us to add some depth and a few needed starters.

I think there is talent on this team I just the think the coaching is so completely FUBAR'd in structure and philosophy that I don't think God himself could right the ship, same goes for the OL with 4 of 5 starters out.

[The_Talon]

TheRealTruth, on 07 November 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

We've seen it often in the NFL. Old, tenured coach is fired, and a new coach comes in and has immediate success.

Jim Johnson fired...Switzer wins SB
Tony Dungy fired...Gruden wins SB
Eric Mangini fired...Ryan gets Jets to two consecutive AFC Championship games
Bill Cowher retires...Tomlin gets to two SBs, winning one

There are more examples but I cannot think of any off top of my head.

Is it possible for a new coach to come in here, with the current players in place (reasonable roster turnover), and immediately turn this ship around?

Jimmy Johnson had complete control of his team and was winning with them. Switzer had success because he inherited a great team. What happened after that, though? He lost the team and was fired himself.

Gruden is a great example of taking a team that was mathematically good, and got them believing they were as good as they were, hence his success where Dungy failed. This type of situation would be our ideal scenario. Same thing with Harbaugh out in SF. You could probably even lump Ryan in that same category, though they're struggling now.

Tomlin also inherited a great team and Cowher had success and a Super Bowl with them just a year or two before Tomlin took over. Hats off to Tomlin for being able to keep the Steelers who they were before. Kinda reminds of what George Seifert did with Bill Walsh's team.

[EaglesCB37]

TheRealTruth, on 07 November 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Jim Johnson fired...Switzer wins SB
Tony Dungy fired...Gruden wins SB
Eric Mangini fired...Ryan gets Jets to two consecutive AFC Championship games
Bill Cowher retires...Tomlin gets to two SBs, winning one

Well, I don't want anything near the Jets' mess and Tomlin inherited a good team, but Gruden and Switzer are good examples. Honestly, if a quality coach can get the players' respect and whip them into shape this current roster would be way better.

[NOTW]

A new coach would need 2-3 years to truly put his stamp on the team.  The O line is really bad.  Assuming Peters, Kelce and Herremans are back healthy and ready to go that's good but they still (Reid or not) need to majorly overhaul the line.  Watkins could stay as a backup since their backups are terrible.  But they need to draft O line and maybe get another free agent or trade.  They need major help.

Vick needs to go as well.  I don't know if Foles is the answer, but I wish we could find out.  If they lose a couple more games maybe they'll give Foles a shot.  But it will be hard to tell behind a terrible O line.

There is talent on the team and a new coach can win.  It needs to be someone tough and disciplined that the players will respect.  The talent is there but these guys are entitled divas who talk a lot.  A new coach who puts them on notice to work for their jobs and that no one is safe can get them motivated.

I would not blow up the team.  There's a lot of young talent.  Cut the bloated contracts of Vick, Babin maybe even Cole and Nnamdi.  But keep the nucleus and see if coaching makes a difference.  If not, next offseason you weed out more of them and in 2-3 offseasons you've got a new team making a playoff run.

[JonnyEagles69]

as soon as Andy is gone I am buying season tickets for me and my father . We both agree right now its not worth the money to see that cheesesteak stained fat sob each week. My pops say if he wanted that he would of stayed married

[The_Talon]

EaglesCB37, on 07 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Well, I don't want anything near the Jets' mess and Tomlin inherited a good team, but Gruden and Switzer are good examples. Honestly, if a quality coach can get the players' respect and whip them into shape this current roster would be way better.

Switzer is NOT a good example. Jimmy Johnson won two SB's back to back and then was replaced by Switzer. Switzer inherited one of the best teams if not THE best team in the league at that time. It took him until his second year to get back to the SB and they blew up after that.

[AceofSpades]

EaglesCB37, on 07 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Well, I don't want anything near the Jets' mess and Tomlin inherited a good team, but Gruden and Switzer are good examples. Honestly, if a quality coach can get the players' respect and whip them into shape this current roster would be way better.

Yeah Tomlin took over a good team but he had to do something right to get them into the position they'd been in over the last 5 seasons.

I think whoever comes in here has to do exactly what John Harbaugh did when he went to Baltimore. The first thing Harbaugh did was reach out to Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. Once he got them to buy into what he was trying to do the rest of the team quickly fell in line and got behind him. Then he had to decide on a QB. After doing so they'd been one of the more successful franchise in the NFL since 2008. A few bounces of the ball here and there and maybe we're adding Harbaugh to the list of coaches who win the Super Bowl within the first 5 years on the job.

[thomasdel]

NOTW, on 07 November 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

A new coach would need 2-3 years to truly put his stamp on the team.  The O line is really bad.  Assuming Peters, Kelce and Herremans are back healthy and ready to go that's good but they still (Reid or not) need to majorly overhaul the line.  Watkins could stay as a backup since their backups are terrible.  But they need to draft O line and maybe get another free agent or trade.  They need major help.

Vick needs to go as well.  I don't know if Foles is the answer, but I wish we could find out.  If they lose a couple more games maybe they'll give Foles a shot.  But it will be hard to tell behind a terrible O line.

There is talent on the team and a new coach can win.  It needs to be someone tough and disciplined that the players will respect.  The talent is there but these guys are entitled divas who talk a lot.  A new coach who puts them on notice to work for their jobs and that no one is safe can get them motivated.

I would not blow up the team.  There's a lot of young talent.  Cut the bloated contracts of Vick, Babin maybe even Cole and Nnamdi.  But keep the nucleus and see if coaching makes a difference.  If not, next offseason you weed out more of them and in 2-3 offseasons you've got a new team making a playoff run.

I disagree..
I went through my list and this roster is not very well balanced at all. Too small and built to front run on both sides of the ball. very hard to be nimble and make adjustments wit the way the roster is today.
New QB = Rebuilding so right there you're basically starting over.

[thomasdel]

AceofSpades, on 07 November 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Yeah Tomlin took over a good team but he had to do something right to get them into the position they'd been in over the last 5 seasons.

I think whoever comes in here has to do exactly what John Harbaugh did when he went to Baltimore. The first thing Harbaugh did was reach out to Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. Once he got them to buy into what he was trying to do the rest of the team quickly fell in line and got behind him. Then he had to decide on a QB. After doing so they'd been one of the more successful franchise in the NFL since 2008. A few bounces of the ball here and there and maybe we're adding Harbaugh to the list of coaches who win the Super Bowl within the first 5 years on the job.

Mike Tomlin, and every PITT HC since the 70's, have the distinct advantage of being managers of a system that works. They systemically draft exceptionally well and run a tried and true system. Mike Tomlin is a great coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers, I'd hesitate to think he'd succeed anywhre out on his own.

[WR_please]

NO.  Too many specialty players.  Babin and DRC need to go, first of all.  Nnamdi should be here only as a 4th CB but he obviously wouldn't take a paycut just to be the #4 CB.  LeSean McCoy, as good as he is at running the ball, can't pass block to save his life.  You're paying $9 million per year to a RB in a passing offense who can't pass protect?  Are we in the twilight zone?  DeSean is fine but you can't look at him as a primary WR.  Trent Cole sucks.  I'm sorry for saying it so bluntly, but he sucks.  Jason Kelce and Evan Mathis can only run block.  You have only 2 guys on the offensive line, both with injury concerns, who are effective in pass and run blocking in Peters and Herremans.  Watkins is a huge question mark.  Cullen Jenkins can't play run defense.  Vick sucks.  The only way Vick is successful in the NFL is if he is in an offense that runs the ball 55% of the time.

To get this team on track you have to replace Babin, Vick, DRC, Nnamdi, Cole, Kelce, Mathis, and Jenkins, as well as, yes, seriously considering trading McCoy to the highest bidder (only with a 1st round pick being involved).  Hate all you want, you can't win with players like that all over your team.

[blackskimmer]

EaglesCB37, on 07 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Well, I don't want anything near the Jets' mess and Tomlin inherited a good team, but Gruden and Switzer are good examples. Honestly, if a quality coach can get the players' respect and whip them into shape this current roster would be way better.

We are prob a worse mess right now, both on the field and drama wise.

[SirReal]

traffic80, on 07 November 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

as soon as Andy is gone I am buying season tickets for me and my father . We both agree right now its not worth the money to see that cheesesteak stained fat sob each week. My pops say if he wanted that he would of stayed married

How long have you been on the Season Ticket waiting list? Or were you thinking that you could just walk up and buy them?

[HazletonEagle]

no

[FanSinceWayBack]

TheRealTruth, on 07 November 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Is it possible for a new coach to come in here, with the current players in place (reasonable roster turnover), and immediately turn this ship around?

In short, yes, but it all actuality probably not. What you're seeing is AR going down swinging.

[JonnyEagles69]

SirReal, on 07 November 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

How long have you been on the Season Ticket waiting list? Or were you thinking that you could just walk up and buy them?

I can just go an buy them , my family not that you need to know has had season tickets since 1977  , My mother has them now but she wants to get rid of them bewcause she basically just sells the tickets. So ya If I want I will get them .

[odin8888]

answer: some players yes, some no


that is the coaches job to get the best out of his players, and trade or release the rest...


I think both are in order...

[TheRealTruth]

I am reading these replies and it seems like everyone is predicting a major roster overhaul. If you post a reply make it for two scenarios.

A) Minus one or two starters on both sides of the ball but the team is basically the same

B) New coach demolishes the roster and replaces 4+ starters on both sides of the ball

[AllPhillyFan]

The offensive line needs to be rebuilt before this team can ever be a championship contender.

[AceofSpades]

thomasdel, on 07 November 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Mike Tomlin, and every PITT HC since the 70's, have the distinct advantage of being managers of a system that works. They systemically draft exceptionally well and run a tried and true system. Mike Tomlin is a great coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers, I'd hesitate to think he'd succeed anywhre out on his own.

If I recall, Pittsburgh was traditionally a smashmouth style of offense and since Tomlin took over they've become more of an air it out type of team.

[neal_c60]

AceofSpades, on 07 November 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Yeah Tomlin took over a good team but he had to do something right to get them into the position they'd been in over the last 5 seasons.

I think whoever comes in here has to do exactly what John Harbaugh did when he went to Baltimore. The first thing Harbaugh did was reach out to Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. Once he got them to buy into what he was trying to do the rest of the team quickly fell in line and got behind him. Then he had to decide on a QB. After doing so they'd been one of the more successful franchise in the NFL since 2008. A few bounces of the ball here and there and maybe we're adding Harbaugh to the list of coaches who win the Super Bowl within the first 5 years on the job.

The Ravens were Loaded with talent on defense. This team ain't even close. We have some talents on offense, but I'm of the opinion that it takes defense to win SB's.

[AceofSpades]

TheRealTruth, on 07 November 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

I am reading these replies and it seems like everyone is predicting a major roster overhaul. If you post a reply make it for two scenarios.

A) Minus one or two starters on both sides of the ball but the team is basically the same

B) New coach demolishes the roster and replaces 4+ starters on both sides of the ball

The more I think about it, the more I think option B is the likely scenario. Every coach to take over is gonna want his guys in there that can play in his system. I think we can see the change of 4 starters on both sides of the ball when a new coach comes in.

[neal_c60]

AceofSpades, on 07 November 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

The more I think about it, the more I think option B is the likely scenario. Every coach to take over is gonna want his guys in there that can play in his system. I think we can see the change of 4 starters on both sides of the ball when a new coach comes in.

At a minimum.

[AceofSpades]

neal_c60, on 07 November 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

The Ravens were Loaded with talent on defense. This team ain't even close. We have some talents on offense, but I'm of the opinion that it takes defense to win SB's.

This team does have talent defensively. No they don't have 2 guaranteed HOF players like the Ravens (with the possibility for a 3rd) but they are talented. Whoever comes in here is gonna have to rebuild it to his standards and make it work.

[philafan4o8]

anything is possible with what I seen in San Fran last year. Coaching and play calling makes a difference. If alex smith can look like steve young with a coach change then anyone can be made better with coaching

[BIRDZEYEVIEW]

TheRealTruth, on 07 November 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

We've seen it often in the NFL. Old, tenured coach is fired, and a new coach comes in and has immediate success.

Jim Johnson fired...Switzer wins SB
Tony Dungy fired...Gruden wins SB
Eric Mangini fired...Ryan gets Jets to two consecutive AFC Championship games
Bill Cowher retires...Tomlin gets to two SBs, winning one

There are more examples but I cannot think of any off top of my head.

Is it possible for a new coach to come in here, with the current players in place (reasonable roster turnover), and immediately turn this ship around?

Jimmys success is after Tom Landry, Switzer's success was based off what Jimmy set in place already. All Switzer had to do was show up.
Gruden success was based off of Tony's set up, and besides Tony won with the Colts.
Eric Mangini, this is the only one thats legit.
Bill Cowher won a SB, and The Pittsburgh Steelers are and have been always built for success.