60 replies to this topic

[NOTW]

I'm not declaring Foles anything one way or the other.  He has potential but we will have to see.  However, whether from Vick getting an injury or getting benched if Foles takes the field Reid and Marty will DRASTICALLY alter the play calling and O line protection to protect the rookie.

They did it with AJ Feeley, Detmer and Garcia.

--> More running plays, screens and direct snaps to Shady and Bryce.
--> Quick drops and quick releases.  Get rid of the ball.  Dink and dunk down the field.
--> Better protection with 2 RBs in the backfield, double TEs, giving Foles extra blockers to handle the blitz.

In short, exactly the kind of things they should do for Vick but don't.  They did it with McNabb.  They'd pass majority of the time and keep firing for that big play until McNabb got hurt.  Then call a better game for the backup and it would actually work.

*If it works with Foles, fans will blame Vick and say that Reid should not be fired because he's not the problem, Foles is the future and he needs the QB gurus Reid and Marty to develop him.

*If it doesn't work, then Reid can chalk it up to a rookie QB behind an injured O line and it's nobody's fault.

Either way it could be a tactic to save Reid's job.  Hopefully nothing will blind Lurie from the truth and he'll fire Reid regardless.

[Baynit]

I agree 110%

And yes I agree I expect him to turn to Foles to try and save his job also.  But Im not expecting it until all playoff hope is mathmatically gone.

[ChimpKelly]

They should have altered it as soon as kelce went down!

[Silentop]

Reid should resign stating personal family time needed....am I the ONLY one who knows that Reid enabled his sons death? I'm not sure where the kid got the money in the later years.... but you know dad forked over enough to supply and enable the kid to use. Reid probably knows this and it shows. He probably uses football as an outlet... but it's not that easy.

[downundermike]

NOTW, on 08 November 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

In short, exactly the kind of things they should do for Vick but don't.  They did it with McNabb.  They'd pass majority of the time and keep firing for that big play until McNabb got hurt.  Then call a better game for the backup and it would actually work.

It still kills me how well that gameplan worked for Garcia, but they wont run it to protect Vick from hits and turnovers.

[stang8118]

In case you didn't get the memo, Michael Vick doesn't know how to do a 3 step drop and get rid of the ball. He doesn't have the ability to use his hot receiver, or call the right protection at the line.

Vick has no clue how to work the short passing game. It isn't suddenly like Reid went from having one of the best screen/short pass teams with McNabb to it being nonexistant now with Vick because Reid forgot how to call screen plays. Maybe the fact that Vick doesn't have the mental capacity to do such plays.

[Eaglesfanforlife]

Silentop, on 08 November 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Reid should resign stating personal family time needed....am I the ONLY one who knows that Reid enabled his sons death? I'm not sure where the kid got the money in the later years.... but you know dad forked over enough to supply and enable the kid to use. Reid probably knows this and it shows. He probably uses football as an outlet... but it's not that easy.

I think so too.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

Silentop, on 08 November 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Reid should resign stating personal family time needed....am I the ONLY one who knows that Reid enabled his sons death? I'm not sure where the kid got the money in the later years.... but you know dad forked over enough to supply and enable the kid to use. Reid probably knows this and it shows. He probably uses football as an outlet... but it's not that easy.

You "know" he enabled his sons death

I may not like the coaching much, but I wouldn't ever want to lay that at the guys door.  What the hell's wrong with you?

[Silentop]

Cochis_Calhoun, on 08 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

You "know" he enabled his sons death

I may not like the coaching much, but I wouldn't ever want to lay that at the guys door.  What the hell's wrong with you?

I didn't dope.... I laid it on yours. I wouldn't say that to him...just do the math. It's sad yeah...but money and young age enables that behavior. What's wrong me? According to you a lot but somehow your opinion does not bother me.

[NOTW]

Im not saying vick is that great. But you can play call to his strengths and at least try to protect him. I believe Vick needs to be gone with all the coaches.

[FanSinceWayBack]

to OP true true

[judunno]

phillyphan754, on 08 November 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

They should have altered it as soon as kelce went down!

That would be too much like right.

[FanSinceWayBack]

stang8118, on 08 November 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Maybe the fact that Vick doesn't have the mental capacity to do such plays.

Better watch what you say. You'll get called a Racist! ....Ask me how I know. I agree though. Look at Mike Vicks history, then his brother, and you'll very much see the apple ladies and gentlemen doesnt fall far from the tree.

[bobbywizdum]

we rushed the ball for well over 100 yards last week and still got nothing to show for it. when will you guys realize that at some point vick has to complete passes !!!

[neal_c60]

bobbywizdum, on 08 November 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

we rushed the ball for well over 100 yards last week and still got nothing to show for it. when will you guys realize that at some point vick has to complete passes !!!

Mike Vicks fans have NEVER expected him to actually play the qb position.

[FanSinceWayBack]

Cause his fans are mostly kids. Kids are enamored and fascinated with Sportscenter Top 10 and highlight reels. People who KNOW football know Mike Vick cant play the postition, especially now that his legs arent what they used to be.

[The_Talon]

NOTW, on 08 November 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I'm not declaring Foles anything one way or the other.  He has potential but we will have to see.  However, whether from Vick getting an injury or getting benched if Foles takes the field Reid and Marty will DRASTICALLY alter the play calling and O line protection to protect the rookie.

They did it with AJ Feeley, Detmer and Garcia.

--> More running plays, screens and direct snaps to Shady and Bryce.
--> Quick drops and quick releases.  Get rid of the ball.  Dink and dunk down the field.
--> Better protection with 2 RBs in the backfield, double TEs, giving Foles extra blockers to handle the blitz.

In short, exactly the kind of things they should do for Vick but don't.  They did it with McNabb.  They'd pass majority of the time and keep firing for that big play until McNabb got hurt.  Then call a better game for the backup and it would actually work.

*If it works with Foles, fans will blame Vick and say that Reid should not be fired because he's not the problem, Foles is the future and he needs the QB gurus Reid and Marty to develop him.

*If it doesn't work, then Reid can chalk it up to a rookie QB behind an injured O line and it's nobody's fault.

Either way it could be a tactic to save Reid's job.  Hopefully nothing will blind Lurie from the truth and he'll fire Reid regardless.

it's a great point, I always wondered why we had one offense for McNabb, and a totally different offense (that actually worked) when McNabb was out. I think the main difference is they are expecting Vick (and expected McNabb) to use his legs. The QB scrambling essentially replaces the ground game because Marty is banking on the QB to run if needed. We don't have that option with the less mobile quarterbacks.

[time2rock]

NOTW, on 08 November 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I'm not declaring Foles anything one way or the other.  He has potential but we will have to see.  However, whether from Vick getting an injury or getting benched if Foles takes the field Reid and Marty will DRASTICALLY alter the play calling and O line protection to protect the rookie.

They did it with AJ Feeley, Detmer and Garcia.

--> More running plays, screens and direct snaps to Shady and Bryce.
--> Quick drops and quick releases.  Get rid of the ball.  Dink and dunk down the field.
--> Better protection with 2 RBs in the backfield, double TEs, giving Foles extra blockers to handle the blitz.

In short, exactly the kind of things they should do for Vick but don't.  They did it with McNabb.  They'd pass majority of the time and keep firing for that big play until McNabb got hurt.  Then call a better game for the backup and it would actually work.

*If it works with Foles, fans will blame Vick and say that Reid should not be fired because he's not the problem, Foles is the future and he needs the QB gurus Reid and Marty to develop him.

*If it doesn't work, then Reid can chalk it up to a rookie QB behind an injured O line and it's nobody's fault.

Either way it could be a tactic to save Reid's job.  Hopefully nothing will blind Lurie from the truth and he'll fire Reid regardless.

Exactly !!  Bravo sir !!

[maggsgsr1]

Moronwig and slim did this to Mcnabb as well.. They hang him out to dry w non-stop passes. I never understood that.. They'd actually run the ball like a normal team and call short/med passes when the backup is in.

[Sean Jerz]

FanSinceWayBack, on 09 November 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Cause his fans are mostly kids. Kids are enamored and fascinated with Sportscenter Top 10 and highlight reels. People who KNOW football know Mike Vick cant play the postition, especially now that his legs arent what they used to be.

Hello!!

Kids...

[eephraim]

Yup. I agree. Everytime the back up is forced to play they call a better game all around. They rely far too much on their stupid antiquated playbook. It sucks. They need a new one...

[NOTW]

Don't worry, a new coach will have a new playbook.

[eaglefan78]

Cochis_Calhoun, on 08 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

You "know" he enabled his sons death

I may not like the coaching much, but I wouldn't ever want to lay that at the guys door.  What the hell's wrong with you?

I'm sure Andy Reid has every scenario going on in his mind every day concerning the death of his son and how much of it is his fault. Quite frankly, I don't know how he has coached and dealt with that at the same time.


As for the OP, you are correct. They run different styles of offense. I'm not sure if it is due to them giving the new guy time to acclimate to the playbook or they just expect McNabb/Vick to make anything work, and they shoot for the stars.

[JonnyEagles69]

[JonnyEagles69]

Even better



We need to let Foles Play make mistakes and learn , I ve watched all the games over and over. I noticed he has not made the same mistakes mkore then 1 time.  Let the kid show what he can do so we can start building or find a new QB

[we_gotta_believe]

NOTW, on 08 November 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I'm not declaring Foles anything one way or the other.  He has potential but we will have to see.  However, whether from Vick getting an injury or getting benched if Foles takes the field Reid and Marty will DRASTICALLY alter the play calling and O line protection to protect the rookie.

They did it with AJ Feeley, Detmer and Garcia.

--> More running plays, screens and direct snaps to Shady and Bryce.
--> Quick drops and quick releases.  Get rid of the ball.  Dink and dunk down the field.
--> Better protection with 2 RBs in the backfield, double TEs, giving Foles extra blockers to handle the blitz.

In short, exactly the kind of things they should do for Vick but don't.  They did it with McNabb.  They'd pass majority of the time and keep firing for that big play until McNabb got hurt.  Then call a better game for the backup and it would actually work.

*If it works with Foles, fans will blame Vick and say that Reid should not be fired because he's not the problem, Foles is the future and he needs the QB gurus Reid and Marty to develop him.

*If it doesn't work, then Reid can chalk it up to a rookie QB behind an injured O line and it's nobody's fault.

Either way it could be a tactic to save Reid's job.  Hopefully nothing will blind Lurie from the truth and he'll fire Reid regardless.

I agree that that's what they'll try to do, but I don't think it will work this time for a few key reasons.

1) The offensive line simply is nowhere close to being as good as the lines were when McNabb went down and those other QBs came in. We had one of the better lines back then and we are clearly one of, if not the worst right now.

2) The defense was also much better back then. We could win games with Feeley throwing for a buck fifty and one TD because we didn't have to outscore other teams in a shootout. That defense also pitched in and gave us decent field position with turnovers and 3 and outs.

3) Feeley, Detmer, Garcia were all backups but they were experienced, knew the offense well, and could run it efficiently without making mistakes. Foles is the polar opposite and will be prone to making mistakes and will likely still struggle with large portions of the playbook.

So yes, i agree that they should've done more to help Vick out with playcalling and that they will make a more determined effort if/when the rook comes in, but in the end it wouldn't have mattered either way. We still would've lost those last 2 games even they had called a  better game, just like we will continue to lose games even with a much better game plan.

[NOTW]

We gotta believe: you might be right, and this O line is a scary mess. I was mainly talking about the coaches play calling and plan. I said at the end scenarios if it works vs if it doesnt.

We need to pray any eagles QB doesnt get carted off the field.

[hextall4prez]

stang8118, on 08 November 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

In case you didn't get the memo, Michael Vick doesn't know how to do a 3 step drop and get rid of the ball. He doesn't have the ability to use his hot receiver, or call the right protection at the line.

Vick has no clue how to work the short passing game. It isn't suddenly like Reid went from having one of the best screen/short pass teams with McNabb to it being nonexistant now with Vick because Reid forgot how to call screen plays. Maybe the fact that Vick doesn't have the mental capacity to do such plays.

How do you expect someone to execute a 3 step drop, turn, setup and get the ball out if he cant even take 3 steps before a lb or d-lineman is in his face in the backfield.?

[The_Talon]

we_gotta_believe, on 09 November 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

I agree that that's what they'll try to do, but I don't think it will work this time for a few key reasons.

1) The offensive line simply is nowhere close to being as good as the lines were when McNabb went down and those other QBs came in. We had one of the better lines back then and we are clearly one of, if not the worst right now.

2) The defense was also much better back then. We could win games with Feeley throwing for a buck fifty and one TD because we didn't have to outscore other teams in a shootout. That defense also pitched in and gave us decent field position with turnovers and 3 and outs.

3) Feeley, Detmer, Garcia were all backups but they were experienced, knew the offense well, and could run it efficiently without making mistakes. Foles is the polar opposite and will be prone to making mistakes and will likely still struggle with large portions of the playbook.

So yes, i agree that they should've done more to help Vick out with playcalling and that they will make a more determined effort if/when the rook comes in, but in the end it wouldn't have mattered either way. We still would've lost those last 2 games even they had called a  better game, just like we will continue to lose games even with a much better game plan.

while you make some interesting points, you missed one point yourself entirely. The playbook would be simplified for Foles as it was for the others, including both Detmer and Feeley who knew the system well enough.

[stang8118]

hextall4prez, on 09 November 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

How do you expect someone to execute a 3 step drop, turn, setup and get the ball out if he cant even take 3 steps before a lb or d-lineman is in his face in the backfield.?

You act like every single down is like that. There are countless downs where Vick has plenty of time (in relative terms) to get rid of the ball. How about 2011 when our oline was perfectly fine? How come Vick still couldn't do a 3 step drop? Even in 2010 Vick couldn't do a 3 step drop. I have yet to see Vick get rid of the ball within 2 seconds of the snap.