28 replies to this topic

[FanSinceWayBack]

Quarterback time in the pocket as of 11/8/2012

1 Russell Wilson SEA 274 3.14
2 Michael Vick PHI 366    3.12
3 Cam Newton CAR 266    3.04
4 Robert Griffin III WAS 309    3.01
5 Alex D. Smith SF 244    2.9
6 Andrew Luck IND 371    2.86
7 Kevin Kolb ARZ 217    2.84
8 Matt Cassel KC 260    2.82
9 Josh Freeman TB 274    2.79
10 Christian Ponder MIN 330    2.78
11 Aaron Rodgers GB 373    2.76
12 Tony Romo DAL 335    2.76
13 Jay Cutler CHI 278    2.74
14 Matt Ryan ATL 331    2.73
15 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 316    2.73
16 Brandon Weeden CLV 356    2.72
17 Philip Rivers SD 285    2.72
18 Matthew Stafford DET 369    2.71
19 Sam Bradford SL 278    2.71
20 Mark Sanchez NYJ 291    2.68
21 Drew Brees NO 357    2.67
22 Matt Schaub HST 260    2.67
23 John Skelton ARZ 187    2.64
24 Joe Flacco BLT 299    2.62
25 Eli Manning NYG 331    2.59
26 Andy Dalton CIN 315    2.59
27 Blaine Gabbert JAX 271    2.58
28 Carson Palmer OAK 347    2.57
29 Ryan Fitzpatrick BUF 281    2.57
30 Ryan Tannehill MIA 261    2.57
31 Peyton Manning DEN 304    2.51
32 Matt Hasselbeck TEN 240    2.5
33 Tom Brady NE 335    2.49



There’ a correlation between how long a player takes to throw and how high an average time to sack they have. Wilson not only leads the league in time to throw but also in average time to sack. That’s not going to help the Seahawks offensive line look better in much the same way as Alex Smith (second highest time to sack) and Michael Vick don’t help theirs

1 Russell Wilson SEA 274 4.05
2 Alex Smith SF 244    4.03
3 Michael Vick PHI 366    4.02
4 Jay Cutler CHI 278    4.01
5 Josh Freeman TB 274    3.87
6 John Skelton ARZ 187    3.85
7 Matt Cassel KC 260    3.81
8 Joe Flacco BLT 299    3.68
9 Aaron Rodgers GB 373    3.62
10 Matt Schaub HST 260    3.61
11 Ryan Fitzpatrick BUF 281    3.61
12 Matthew Stafford DET 369    3.57
13 Andrew Luck IND 371    3.39
14 Mark Sanchez NYJ 291    3.34
15 Cam Newton CAR 266    3.27
16 Tom Brady NE 335    3.26
17 Christian Ponder MIN 330    3.22
18 Tony Romo DAL 335    3.11
19 Eli Manning NYG 331    3.04
20 Andy Dalton CIN 315    3.02
21 Matt Hasselbeck TEN 240    2.94
22 Robert Griffin III WAS 309    2.85
23 Drew Brees NO 357    2.85
24 Matt Ryan ATL 331    2.84
25 Brandon Weeden CLV 356    2.84
26 Carson Palmer OAK 347   2.67
27 Sam Bradford SL 278    2.66
28 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 316    2.56
29 Blaine Gabbert JAX 271    2.51
30 Peyton Manning DEN 304    2.5
31 Ryan Tannehill MIA 261    2.48
32 Philip Rivers SD 285    2.43
33 Kevin Kolb ARZ 217    2.28





When Vick holds onto the ball for greater than 2.5 seconds, his completion percentage drops by 17% and his QB rating falls almost 40 points. That's a dramatic difference. As far as QB rating, it's the most in the NFL.
That said, before we think any of this absolves the offensive line, Vick has also been sacked 5 times within 2.5 seconds, which is the 2nd most in the NFL. Still, Vick's average time between the snap and the moment he's sacked is over 4 seconds, or 3rd highest in the leauge. So he's certainly not doing the line any favors either

[The_Talon]

that's a dirty lie. Our pocket collapses waaaaay before three seconds.

[zenclaybourne]

The_Talon, on 09 November 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

that's a dirty lie. Our pocket collapses waaaaay before three seconds.

I believe this is ignoring the scrambling Vick does that makes the time go up. Vick is usually able to escape the first player and that stretches his time by at least a quarter of a second on sacks, probably more. These stats are really worthless without further evaluation, such as when the QB is forced to deviate from his drop or roll.

[FanSinceWayBack]

I didnt build these stats lol This is on average. There are times when theres less but Ive seen plenty of times where he just simply doesnt get rid of the ball for what ever reason. Incompetent, too short, ________ <----- Fill excuse here

[The_Talon]

I think it's not because he chooses to hold onto the ball, but actually the way the plays are designed. Again, this can fall on Marty's shoulders.

I've been saying this for years myself, but the original point in this thread emphasizes my point.: http://boards.philad...at-will-happen/

[zenclaybourne]

FanSinceWayBack, on 09 November 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

I didnt build these stats lol This is on average. There are times when theres less but Ive seen plenty of times where he just simply doesnt get rid of the ball for what ever reason. Incompetent, too short, ________ <----- Fill excuse here

I didn't figure that you did, but you should add the link to your post

[FanSinceWayBack]

also these stats are from the time from when the ball is snapped to the point where the quarterback has either thrown a pass or can no longer throw a pass (has been sacked or scrambled past the line of scrimmage)

[zenclaybourne]

The_Talon, on 09 November 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

I think it's not because he chooses to hold onto the ball, but actually the way the plays are designed. Again, this can fall on Marty's shoulders.

Another factor that has to be included, the difference between designed plays. It is just not a fair way to analyze play.

FanSinceWayBack, on 09 November 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

also these stats are from the time from when the ball is snapped to the point where the quarterback has either thrown a pass or can no longer throw a pass (has been sacked or scrambled past the line of scrimmage)

Which ignores too many factors.

[FanSinceWayBack]

zenclaybourne, on 09 November 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

I didn't figure that you did, but you should add the link to your post

http://forums.prospo...ad.php?t=777690   ... I just copy and pasted the stat sheet, how its designed, and what pertained to the Eagles.

zenclaybourne, on 09 November 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Another factor that has to be included, the difference between designed plays. It is just not a fair way to analyze play.

Which ignores too many factors.

I agree, but it is what it is and it has to be somewhat telling. Im not saying ^THIS^ is the answer to all. It was pretty much known, I was just curious to the actual numbers. Bored at work, thought Id share.

[PickFoles]

Damn, you posted this as I was typing up my thread.

[FanSinceWayBack]

learn2reid, on 09 November 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

Damn, you posted this as I was typing up my thread.

I just saw your thread and was like " Whats the odds" lol

[zenclaybourne]

FanSinceWayBack, on 09 November 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

http://forums.prospo...ad.php?t=777690   ... I just copy and pasted the stat sheet, how its designed, and what pertained to the Eagles.

I agree, but it is what it is and it has to be somewhat telling. Im not saying ^THIS^ is the answer to all. It was pretty much known, I was just curious to the actual numbers. Bored at work, thought Id share.

It's appreciated, the link is more forum rule stuff than anything. I am trying to be fair to Vick because the line has been getting progressively worse as more and more starters go down. It wasn't particularly good to begin with either.

[FanSinceWayBack]

zenclaybourne, on 09 November 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

It's appreciated, the link is more forum rule stuff than anything. I am trying to be fair to Vick because the line has been getting progressively worse as more and more starters go down. It wasn't particularly good to begin with either.

I understand. Im on other forums as well and some dont like links posted so I was hesitant.

Do you think Mudd is as good as advertised? Or did P.Manning make his line & Mudd look better than they were?

[nottsfootballfan]

But, but, but,  the line is awful, Vick would be amazing if he just had more time.

[FanSinceWayBack]

Notts what about the Eagles intrigued you so much you decided to be a supporter? Do you ever get to watch them in the U.K?

[scarletfire1970]

The_Talon, on 09 November 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

I think it's not because he chooses to hold onto the ball, but actually the way the plays are designed. Again, this can fall on Marty's shoulders.

I've been saying this for years myself, but the original point in this thread emphasizes my point.: http://boards.philad...at-will-happen/

I think that has a lot to do with it. Ben Roethlisberger is usually high on this list, but not this year.  I think the new OC, Haley has done a good job designing plays that get the ball out of the QBs hands quickly.  It has made a huge difference for the Steelers.  Of course it is more like a Tom Brady dink and dunk offense now, but hey it is working so you can't complain.

[nottsfootballfan]

FanSinceWayBack, on 09 November 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

Notts what about the Eagles intrigued you so much you decided to be a supporter? Do you ever get to watch them in the U.K?

My uncle lives in Philly, his wife and my cousins are American. Visited one summer and played Madden with my cousins and went to see a preseason game (vs pats in august 2003).

Sunday and Monday night football are shown on tv here. Sky tv (cable tv) show 2 1pm games and 2 4 pm games a week, then there is gamepass which lets you watch online.

[time2rock]

FanSinceWayBack, on 09 November 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

I didnt build these stats lol This is on average. There are times when theres less but Ive seen plenty of times where he just simply doesnt get rid of the ball for what ever reason. Incompetent, too short, sucks <----- Fill excuse here

like that ??

[FanSinceWayBack]

time2rock, on 09 November 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

like that ??

JUST like that

[JonnyEagles69]

zenclaybourne, on 09 November 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

I believe this is ignoring the scrambling Vick does that makes the time go up. Vick is usually able to escape the first player and that stretches his time by at least a quarter of a second on sacks, probably more. These stats are really worthless without further evaluation, such as when the QB is forced to deviate from his drop or roll.

He left his legs in 2010

[FanSinceWayBack]

nottsfootballfan, on 09 November 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

My uncle lives in Philly, his wife and my cousins are American. Visited one summer and played Madden with my cousins and went to see a preseason game (vs pats in august 2003).

Sunday and Monday night football are shown on tv here. Sky tv (cable tv) show 2 1pm games and 2 4 pm games a week, then there is gamepass which lets you watch online.

"You Talk Like Your From London"  -Forgetting Sarah Marshall???? Thats awesome man! I own all at Madden & Fifa

[zenclaybourne]

FanSinceWayBack, on 09 November 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

I understand. Im on other forums as well and some dont like links posted so I was hesitant.

Do you think Mudd is as good as advertised? Or did P.Manning make his line & Mudd look better than they were?

I remain as mystified that Juan is no longer our O-line coach as I was the day they hired Mudd. Peyton is a great QB with a stellar receiving corp which allowed him to get the ball out very quickly. Still losing so many linemen makes it virtually impossible to look like a good coach even if you are. I'm not exactly calling for the guy's head.

traffic80, on 09 November 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

He left his legs in 2010

He's lost speed, but he is still quite mobile. I'd be shocked if he isn't among the top ten fastest QBs, he's probably in the top five.

[biglou22]

We can all take a look at stats until we are blue in the face. But the eye test is the telling story.
And the eye test tells me that as bad as the OL is, Vick is worse.

A more aware QB that is seeing what is in front of him better will make the OL much better.
However, I'm not sure a much better OL will make the QB much better.

I still believe a different QB would change lots of things. Most importantly their record. And in this terrible NFC East it appears a very average 9-7 record will win this division. And if the Giants don't make a lot of adjustments it could be a very embarrassing 8-8 that wins this debacle known as the NFC EAST in what has become an almost unwatchable hideous NFL.
Basically every Thursday night game is unwatchable. Almost every Monday night game is unwatchable. And MOST Sunday games are unwatchable.

Just a little rant here..................not that anyone gives a crap. But I'll feel better. lol
Last year had it's built in excuse for hideous play. And this year has just picked up where the NFL had fallen to over the last 3 - 4 years. After a decade of Directv, and watching almost every teams 16 games, this will be my last year as an avid NFL fan.
Will I watch the NFL after last week ??? Some games. But after the complete debacle of play this year and the drop in play over the last 3-4-5 years from the ENTIRE NFL I have had enough.
If I don't have something to do on Sundays I will watch the games. If not no big deal.
Will I watch the Eagles ?? Certainly. But I will now do what 99% of all football fans do. Which is watch their home team and have no clue or care about the other teams.
Sorry folks. But the football I am watching is embarrassing and simply terrible.

[eephraim]

There are so many other factors that go into that. Like how crappy the oline is and running for your life every second snap. That will bring your average way up.

Alex Smith just sucks and he's lucky he has a great team.

[nipples]

eephraim, on 09 November 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

There are so many other factors that go into that. Like how crappy the oline is and running for your life every second snap. That will bring your average way up.

Alex Smith just sucks and he's lucky he has a great team.

Or it could be that Vick has no Fing clue how to adjust his protection.

[Ipspots]

Vick sucks as a QB... period.

He is too short, cant see over the line enough to see the wide open wr's, his balls get batted down alot

he holds the ball way too long... tries to extennd every play when he should be throwing it away. Often taking sacks for loss.

He often slides into sacks, meaning when in the pocket he slides into a sack instead of getting rid of the ball

He fumbles a lot and has yet learned to slide feet first.. something which 8 year olds learn to do in Base ball...

he throws balls late and often a INT is the result. His decision making is slow and questionable at best.

His best asset (his speed) has declined so much that DE's are now running him down from behind.

He does not read defenses well, and does not call protections well either

[Lloyd]

eephraim, on 09 November 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

There are so many other factors that go into that. Like how crappy the oline is and running for your life every second snap. That will bring your average way up.

Alex Smith just sucks and he's lucky he has a great team.

True.

Maybe we should just create the Vick Football League (VFL) where the game is catered entirely to Vick's strengths. That way, these lousy NFL teams aren't holding Vick back anymore and he can finally have the stats and win/loss record to justify the way these fans defend him.   Because these mediocre records and stats and history of turnovers and injuries certainly can't be his fault. It's the damn NFL. And it's about time someone did something about it!

[Bear Grylls]

Lloyd, on 09 November 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

True.

Maybe we should just create the Vick Football League (VFL) where the game is catered entirely to Vick's strengths. That way, these lousy NFL teams aren't holding Vick back anymore and he can finally have the stats and win/loss record to justify the way these fans defend him.  

yes! Some ideas for rules:

Any game where Vick runs for more yards than he throws = automatic win

The defense is REQUIRED to ask Vick's permission to blitz. That way he's given ample time to prepare himself to be sacked.  

Any time Vick holds onto the ball for 5 seconds or more, his offense is given 3 points.

Vick is given 2 "free fumbles" per game, and only the 3rd fumble counts.  

It's the Vick Football League!

[FanSinceWayBack]

Hahahah True True...

If a pass is batted down by a Defensive Lineman, that Defensive Lineman has to sit out rest of series.
On any Vick INT defender must get 12 feet in bounds.
If more than 1 defender makes simultaneous contact with Vick, 1 has to be ejected.
If any of Vicks targets only manage to get 1 foot in bounds, its ruled a catch.
Vicks team will have 15 time outs per half, but only on Offense.
Offensive and Defensive lines must play from knees.