158 replies to this topic

[PickFoles]

There have been a bunch of threads on this forum and articles on Eagles blog sites about how Michael Vick is the 2nd worse QB in the league in terms of time to throw the ball (average 3.2 seconds after snap).

These articles claim that Vick being too slow to pass is the reason the offensive line is struggling to protect him.

The truth is, it's the other way around.

Michael Vick is taking too long to pass BECAUSE his offensive line is terrible. BECAUSE pass rushers are breaking through the offensive line so quickly, Vick is forced to roll out and avoid the sack on more than half of the plays. Those one or two steps with the ball tucked that he MUST take to avoid a rusher is what bumps his average release time up from what would be a league average 2.7 seconds to 3.2 seconds.

When you look at the other quarterbacks that have slow pass times, they're almost all mobile quarterbacks (RGIII, Newton, Wilson, etc.) who are rolling out to avoid sacks too.

The Bleeding Green Nation article mentions that when Vick releases the ball at around 2.5 seconds after the snap, his QB rating is a respectable 92.5%. Why is that? It's because the plays where he's able to release the ball that quickly are the few plays where the O-line doesn't allow an immediate breakthrough and he isn't being distracted from making a pass.

Vick's delayed release is the result of a terrible offensive line, not the cause of it.

[Lloyd]

Blah blah blah. Love him or hate him, he's gone in 2013.

[PickFoles]

 Lloyd, on 09 November 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

Blah blah blah. Love him or hate him, he's gone in 2013.

Thanks for that in-depth, well-thought-out contribution to the discussion at hand.

I'M BEING SARCASTIC.

[FanSinceWayBack]

If I had to place blame on this offense. It would be:

65% Vicks Fault
35% O-Lines Fault

[devbrian]

Um...... no.

70% Reid
10% Vick
20% O-Line

[eephraim]

Interesting theory. Don't expect the drooling retards on this board to agree with you though.

They're agenda is to blame the QB. My 3 year old saw that Vick was getting hit right after the snap. These morons here can't figure it out.

 FanSinceWayBack, on 09 November 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

If I had to place blame on this offense. It would be:

65% Vicks Fault
35% O-Lines Fault

See what I mean.

[NOTW]

Reid, marty, vick, o line...all at fault.

A new coach and qb will be here next year. Peters, kelce and herremans will be back. They'll draft some o lineman. New start.

[Solomon]

Yeah, it's not Vicks fault. It's the OLs fault he can't read a D, makes stupid decisions, misses wide open WRs, fumbles, ect.

[JonnyEagles69]

guys this is stupid ..... The blame goes like this 50% Reid 50% Vick I say that because this year There is no O_line

[dba042681]

Because, remember, this is an explosive, downfield offense. No dink and dunk WCO stuff here. No sir. We get yards in big chunks and then throttle our opponents with a furious pass rush and stout run defense on the other side of the ball.

[SilverChaosVII]

Trent Dilfer (I think it was Trent) broke down the tape to the Saints game.

Vick had an average of 1.9 seconds to throw the ball before he was pressured/hit.

This theory has actually been said multiple times the last few weeks. I do think that Vick holds onto the ball too long when given time, but recently the length of time he holds onto the ball has almost everything to do with having to avoid pressure and that taking extra time.

[CountBlah]

 Lloyd, on 09 November 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

Blah blah blah. Love him or hate him, he's gone in 2013.

You don't have to tell me Lloyd.  

What the OP is failing to realize is that the O-Line has gotten progressively worse as the season has gone on, due to injury. So he is taking what we all saw this past week and applying it to earlier in the season and the last season and a half.   He did hold onto the ball two long, even with the O-Line we had last year.   Now the O-Line is a complete disaster,  but he is using that to excuse Vick of ALL of his issues.  

BS!!!!

[shady4mvp]

play calling is the issue..

they want to call deep play that take time to develop and our o-line cant hold for that long.

[vic92353]

SOME OF YOU ARE REALLY SICK ON THIS BOARD.   THE HATRED FOR A PERSON IS AMAZING.  

[CountBlah]

 eephraim, on 09 November 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Interesting theory. Don't expect the drooling retards on this board to agree with you though.

They're agenda is to blame the QB. My 3 year old saw that Vick was getting hit right after the snap. These morons here can't figure it out.

So what was Vick's excuse the second half of 2010 and all of 2011?

[ckudrick]

 vic92353, on 09 November 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

SOME OF YOU ARE REALLY SICK ON THIS BOARD.   THE HATRED FOR A PERSON IS AMAZING.  

It's not about hating the person ... it's about realizing that he is as much of a part of the problem as anyone.  He has the biggest contract, he is expected to be the best player, and he's not performing up to expectations and wasn't even before the offensive linemen went down.

[stang8118]

 vic92353, on 09 November 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

SOME OF YOU ARE REALLY SICK ON THIS BOARD.   THE HATRED FOR A PERSON IS AMAZING.  

Stating the obvious isn't hatred. I'd love to see you defend Michael Vick's inability to read a defense and to go through his progressions when on the FIRST play of the Saints game he opted to throw to a double covered DeSean Jackson when Maclin was wide open.

[JonnyEagles69]

 eephraim, on 09 November 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

They're agenda is to blame the QB. My 3 year old saw that Vick was getting hit right after the snap. These morons here can't figure it out.



See what I mean.

Funny My kids are 9 , 6 and 3 .  Mine asked me why does that guy not throw the ball like you Daddy  , least then they could catch it .

[Portyansky]

So if we start Foles our o-line is gonna block better?

[kmass88]

 Solomon, on 09 November 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Yeah, it's not Vicks fault. It's the OLs fault he can't read a D, makes stupid decisions, misses wide open WRs, fumbles, ect.

Hate to break it to you and the rest of the superior 'arm chair analyst' that populate this board. But Jason Kelce SAID IT IS THE O-LINE'S JOB TO IDENTIFY THE PROTECTION AND MAKE THE CALL. He said Mike Vick usually has the MIKE to account for.
http://espn.go.com/b...-responsibility

Did ya get that? A guy that actually plays on the team and knows the schemes says, its not on the QB to make those calls.

And Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles both can see that this team has no WRs that run hot routes or return to the ball. Explain to me outside of a designed hitch play when was the last time the play was breaking down and you saw anyone that wasn't on their route spot with Vick rolling out running for his life - when do you see his recievers break their route or coming back to the ball?

Vick hasn't been perfect heck he's been less than pedistrian this year. But Kelce basically disproved all the TATer arm chair Madden analysis.

 SilverChaosVII, on 09 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Trent Dilfer (I think it was Trent) broke down the tape to the Saints game.

Vick had an average of 1.9 seconds to throw the ball before he was pressured/hit.

This theory has actually been said multiple times the last few weeks. I do think that Vick holds onto the ball too long when given time, but recently the length of time he holds onto the ball has almost everything to do with having to avoid pressure and that taking extra time.

Well what do you expect every qb in the league not named Vick can go through his progressions, set his feet and make an accurate throw with only 1.9 to work with according to TATE.

[Robbieb77]

Our WR's deserve some blame also

[Lloyd]

 Robbieb77, on 09 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

Our WR's deserve some blame also

I also deserve some of the blame.

[Audit2]

 learn2reid, on 09 November 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

There have been a bunch of threads on this forum and articles on Eagles blog sites about how Michael Vick is the 2nd worse QB in the league in terms of time to throw the ball (average 3.2 seconds after snap).

These articles claim that Vick being too slow to pass is the reason the offensive line is struggling to protect him.

The truth is, it's the other way around.

Michael Vick is taking too long to pass BECAUSE his offensive line is terrible. BECAUSE pass rushers are breaking through the offensive line so quickly, Vick is forced to roll out and avoid the sack on more than half of the plays. Those one or two steps with the ball tucked that he MUST take to avoid a rusher is what bumps his average release time up from what would be a league average 2.7 seconds to 3.2 seconds.

When you look at the other quarterbacks that have slow pass times, they're almost all mobile quarterbacks (RGIII, Newton, Wilson, etc.) who are rolling out to avoid sacks too.

The Bleeding Green Nation article mentions that when Vick releases the ball at around 2.5 seconds after the snap, his QB rating is a respectable 92.5%. Why is that? It's because the plays where he's able to release the ball that quickly are the few plays where the O-line doesn't allow an immediate breakthrough and he isn't being distracted from making a pass.

Vick's delayed release is the result of a terrible offensive line, not the cause of it.

Very smart post.

[antiravis]

I know the offensive line is bad but there are so many times that there is an obvious all-out blitz coming and Vick still doesn't make an effort to get rid of the ball. I feel like I haven't seen him take a three step drop all season and I think that has something to do with the fact that he really isn't tall enough to see over the offensive line. In terms of turnovers and locking onto his receivers, Vick has been doing that through his entire career. Now that he's getting older, he's losing the one thing that made him a genuine threat and the truth is, that one thing never made him a Super Bowl contender. It just made him a highlight reel.

Both Vick and Reid know that this offensive line has deficiencies but neither is capable of accounting for those deficiencies. Both of them have to go. We've heard all the excuses. It's time to start over.

[ckudrick]

 kmass88, on 09 November 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Hate to break it to you and the rest of the superior 'arm chair analyst' that populate this board. But Jason Kelce SAID IT IS THE O-LINE'S JOB TO IDENTIFY THE PROTECTION AND MAKE THE CALL. He said Mike Vick usually has the MIKE to account for.
http://espn.go.com/b...-responsibility

Did ya get that? A guy that actually plays on the team and knows the schemes says, its not on the QB to make those calls.

And Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles both can see that this team has no WRs that run hot routes or return to the ball. Explain to me outside of a designed hitch play when was the last time the play was breaking down and you saw anyone that wasn't on their route spot with Vick rolling out running for his life - when do you see his recievers break their route or coming back to the ball?

Vick hasn't been perfect heck he's been less than pedistrian this year. But Kelce basically disproved all the TATer arm chair Madden analysis.

Mudd put Vick was in charge of calling the protection last year ... it was switched to Kelce this year because, ummm, Vick sucked at it.

[BDAWK_4EVER]

 learn2reid, on 09 November 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

Thanks for that in-depth, well-thought-out contribution to the discussion at hand.

I'M BEING SARCASTIC.

You are terrible

AT SARCASM

[johncp]

The truth is that there is enough blame to go around no matter what name is brought up.
Start over again with a new mind set.

[FanSinceWayBack]

 eephraim, on 09 November 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Interesting theory. Don't expect the drooling retards on this board to agree with you though.

They're agenda is to blame the QB. My 3 year old saw that Vick was getting hit right after the snap. These morons here can't figure it out.



See what I mean.

Yea cause your sons the next QB prodigy. I bet he knows as much about defense as Vick does at the moment.

 kmass88, on 09 November 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Hate to break it to you and the rest of the superior 'arm chair analyst' that populate this board. But Jason Kelce SAID IT IS THE O-LINE'S JOB TO IDENTIFY THE PROTECTION AND MAKE THE CALL. He said Mike Vick usually has the MIKE to account for.

Did ya get that? A guy that actually plays on the team and knows the schemes says, its not on the QB to make those calls.

Someones gotta do it. Its QUITE obvious Vick cant.

 Audit2, on 09 November 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Very smart post.

Still polishing away I see.

[NJEaglesFan5]

#1 blame is Reid.  For not running the ball more.  PLay action passes dont work when u dont run.  More quick passes and less 7 step drop backs.  Or put him in a shotgun and throw  a quick pass.
#2 OL - They lets guys get thru the line way to quick which causes him to scramble and have to find open guys on the run.
#3 vick - needs to do better job reading where the blitz is coming from and make sure it gets picked up.  Audible to runs or dump off to shady if all out blitz.  Every other QB does this, we should to.

[iinvincible]

My father says Vick is dumb.  He doesn't know what to do, and plays sporadically .  He says vick throws to the wrong people and fumbles too much .  He can't do audibles or read defenses.  The guy can throw make no mistake, and he can run fast.   But You need more than that to be an NFL elite quarterback.