52 replies to this topic

[blackskimmer]

First the good:

1) Great pocket presence, not afraid to stand in there and take a beating (a major positive considering being a Eagle QB this is pretty much skill number 1)

2) A very good west coast offense type QB.  Not really suited for Marty's typical vertical bombs away offense but relies alot on short slants and crossing routes.  

3)mostly accurate, can under throw the deep ball but leads his receivers nicely.

4) Scans the field extremely well.  I mean super well, goes through his progressions in a very methodical way.

5) Has a good internal clock, seems know when its time to bail.



Now the bad:

1) When flushed from the pocket is boom or bust.  Can fit the ball into tight areas but can also really botch his throws.  The worst thing is he stares down the receiver too long when flushed from the pocket.  That gives the safety ALOT of time to react and it will be a struggle for him.  Being flushed from the pocket is going to happen alot in this offense especially with this line.

2) Is a very good pocket passer, seems the best in a 5 step drop situation.  Once he hits that five step drop will release the ball quickly, however with this line a 5 step drop is almost suicidal.

3) From snap to release seems to need 2.8-3.0 seconds to throw the ball effectively.  Which while is reasonable is not going to fly.  Vick is barely getting 2 seconds to throw the ball, on blitz's he is getting hammered in just over 1 second.


  I saw a QB who has alot of promise, and I want to say here and now, I have been screaming our Oline was a problem from the start of the year.  No one wanted to acknowledge this.  But the Pats game against 2nd and 3rd string rushers was getting owned at times.  The pass protection avg. at best against a Pat team that that had back ups in.

  I also watched and rewatched the play where the Pats zero blitzed Foles, our line picked it up as best it could, infact really well.  The biggest problem?  Our receivers where failing to break off routes and run shallow or come back to Foles.  This has been a massive problem all year.

  Now I think this falls more on Marty and his reluctance to protect his QB's.

  In conclusion, Foles needs to be looked at, but as a pocket passer and with this Oline I just dont see it making any difference.  Infact I truly believe it will worse, FAR worse.  I think not only will he get pummeled but there will be alot of throws once flushed from the pocket that arent going to end well.

  This is the type of QB who needs a clean pocket, one that if need be can move around in and by a bit of time.  The biggest problem is we cant give him that.  It sucks because I really want to see what he can do.

[PickFoles]

So you re-watched the tape of Nick Foles playing against the 2nd and 3rd stringers on a team whose starters are already bad enough to be the 5th worst pass defense in the league.

[Hey Suess]

Yeah, but let's get down to brass tacks....what TATErs really want to know is:

A. Is he fiery?
B. How does his hair look when he scrambles?

[zenclaybourne]

Now go watch his snaps against the browns starters later that week. I'm glad you acknowledge that he showed potential.

[BtotheH]

God why do any of you bring up PS play now? You know damn well your going to get torched for it.

Throw out all of the good and bad plays Foles had in preseason and start fresh. When it comes for his time this year we will see what the kid has and how he handles himself against starters. Until then stop analyzing his college play and PS play because it means nothing. Did he catch our eyes in PS as a rookie? He did to me but we cannot grade him yet. Foles may not be the Eagles starter in 2013.........

[we_gotta_believe]

Hey Suess, on 09 November 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Yeah, but let's get down to brass tacks....what TATErs really want to know is:

A. Is he fiery?
B. How does his hair look when he scrambles?

You forgot...

C. Does he give a great interview?
D. Can he kill wild animals with his bare hands?

[Hey Suess]

we_gotta_believe, on 09 November 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

You forgot...

C. Does he give a great interview?
D. Can he kill wild animals with his bare hands?

Yes. And especially.....

E. Will we be able to complain about him in 2-3 years.

[vic92353]

learn2reid, on 09 November 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

So you re-watched the tape of Nick Foles playing against the 2nd and 3rd stringers on a team whose starters are already bad enough to be the 5th worst pass defense in the league.

To save some time they should add him to the Hall of Fame Now.  2nd and 3rd stringers and he did that well.  He is definetly ready to take the Eagles to the SB. Wow!

[ChimpKelly]

BtotheH, on 09 November 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

God why do any of you bring up PS play now? You know damn well your going to get torched for it.

Throw out all of the good and bad plays Foles had in preseason and start fresh. When it comes for his time this year we will see what the kid has and how he handles himself against starters. Until then stop analyzing his college play and PS play because it means nothing. Did he catch our eyes in PS as a rookie? He did to me but we cannot grade him yet. Foles may not be the Eagles starter in 2013.........

Oh he might not be the starter in 2013? So who will it be then? Vick?

[blackskimmer]

BtotheH, on 09 November 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

God why do any of you bring up PS play now? You know damn well your going to get torched for it.

Throw out all of the good and bad plays Foles had in preseason and start fresh. When it comes for his time this year we will see what the kid has and how he handles himself against starters. Until then stop analyzing his college play and PS play because it means nothing. Did he catch our eyes in PS as a rookie? He did to me but we cannot grade him yet. Foles may not be the Eagles starter in 2013.........

No but when you are trying to get a feel on what he can or cant do its all you have to go by.  What I saw was impressive but also what I saw I dont think will help the Oline magically and suddenly function either.

[mrfitsaro]

learn2reid, on 09 November 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

So you re-watched the tape of Nick Foles playing against the 2nd and 3rd stringers on a team whose starters are already bad enough to be the 5th worst pass defense in the league.

Funny how he went into that Pats game early because Vick got hurt.  Before Vick got hurt he looked bad, basically like he has all season.  Against the same players Vick faced Foles played a lot better, you would have thought Vick was the rookie based on performance.  Vick also looked like a deer in the headlights in every other preseason game he played.  Im not saying Foles should play now, just that your argument fails to mention how Vick played against those same defenses.

[BlackPooL]

I don't think anyone needs to rip this guy.  Some people like to analyze players.  Personally I think it's irrelevant.  How many professionals analzyed someone like Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russell for countless months only to get proven completely wrong when it mattered.

Fact is nobody will know how Foles (or anyone else) will really perform in the NFL as a starter until it happens.

[mogwi411]

Foles should not start now, and anyone saying otherwise must hate the kid.  A rookie behind this practice squad line is not going to have a good chance of being successful.  I think there's a better chance his development would be hurt by starting right now.  He won't develop a proper sense of timing in the pocket since he doesn't have a proper NFL oline.  He might get hurt, might develop happy feet, or lose confidence in his ability to play.

I think the kid showed some promise and should be given a chance to start but only when the team can give him a reasonable chance to be successful.

[downundermike]

mrfitsaro, on 09 November 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Im not saying Foles should play now, just that your argument fails to mention how Vick played against those same defenses.

Exactly....not only how he played, but the fact he survived more then 4 plays.......I only remember seeing him get sacked once, hit hard once, other than that hardly pressured.

Everyone forgets against those same preseason vanilla defenses Mike Vick ran 7 plays, got sacked, crushed and hurt twice.

[Sean Jerz]

Foles played against his peers, and was damn good. What's the big deal if it was PS or RS the kid showed us all a little something to build on.

[daftpunk]

downundermike, on 09 November 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Exactly....not only how he played, but the fact he survived more then 4 plays.......I only remember seeing him get sacked once, hit hard once, other than that hardly pressured.

Everyone forgets against those same preseason vanilla defenses Mike Vick ran 7 plays, got sacked, crushed and hurt twice.

Kevlar Jacket Baby!

[FanSinceWayBack]

If you try to talk Foles up your response is "its only preseason against back ups". Its like all these Vick nut dwellers didnt even watch the game. These 3rd and 4th stringers on a already bad defense hurt Mike Vick....Nothing to say to that? They only see what they wanna see. We need to split this forum up into EAGLE FANS and MIKE VICK FANS

[CountBlah]

FanSinceWayBack, on 09 November 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

If you try to talk Foles up your response is "its only preseason against back ups". Its like all these Vick nut dwellers didnt even watch the game. These 3rd and 4th stringers on a already bad defense hurt Mike Vick....Nothing to say to that? They only see what they wanna see. We need to split this forum up into EAGLE FANS and MIKE VICK FANS

thats the way it's always been around here.  McNabb,  Andy,  any backup QB, etc...

[FanSinceWayBack]

CountBlah, on 09 November 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

thats the way it's always been around here.  McNabb,  Andy,  any backup QB, etc...

TATE at its core, eh?

[GoBirds2010]

Vick was hurt.

He actually went against the starting defense.

[FanSinceWayBack]

GoBirds2010, on 09 November 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Vick was hurt.

He actually went against the starting defense.

Let me get my glasses so I can read what you wrote lol ... So what your telling me is as SOON as Vick got hurt they yanked ALL their starters?

[Runtherock]

Interesting observations man. Sorry for the typical pos comments.

[ChimpKelly]

GoBirds2010, on 09 November 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Vick was hurt.

He actually went against the starting defense.

L2R you're signed into your other account, silly goose.

[iinvincible]

Dude, sometime its the 3rd stringer that is a star.

Look at Ben Rothlensberger,  Kurt warner, and randal cunningham.  They were all 2nd and 3rd stringers.

[surefooted]

learn2reid, on 09 November 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

So you re-watched the tape of Nick Foles playing against the 2nd and 3rd stringers on a team whose starters are already bad enough to be the 5th worst pass defense in the league.

Hey dope, he played against mostly 1stringers as well since Vick was hurt through 90% of the preseason.

[nottsfootballfan]

CountBlah, on 09 November 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

thats the way it's always been around here.  McNabb,  Andy,  any backup QB, etc...

It's way worse with Vick because he brought fans who are purely his own fans with him.

Little kids hung up on highlight reels, mostly.

[FanSinceWayBack]

nottsfootballfan, on 09 November 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

It's way worse with Vick because he brought fans who are purely his own fans with him.

Little kids hung up on highlight reels, mostly.

Your EXACTLY right.

TEAM fans > PLAYER fans


I cant wait till next year, maybe all these Vick nut dwellers will go join Buffalo's Team Board.

[kevkro64]

I had  Nick Foles in the preseason against New England. Michael Vick got hurt on the fifth or sixth play, and Foles went the distance, on the road in Foxborough. If you like prototype pocket passers with some functional mobility and a tremendous amount of toughness, Foles is interesting.

What really impressed me in the preseason was they weren’t running generic formations. They ran about 30 different formations out of about eight different personnel groupings in successive plays. So I see him recognizing coverages. I see him getting to second and third receivers, just like you’d want a quarterback to do in that system, and I love his NFL size. He reminds me a lot of Brad Johnson, from his football character to his ability to decipher a lot quickly, and we won a championship with Brad.

http://www.phillymag...lks-nick-foles/

[Marinomanx013]

It's not that I'm interested in Foles starting because I think he'd give us the chance to win games.

I'd be interested in starting Foles to see if we need to go after a QB in round 1 of the draft next offseason.

That's my thinking, anyway. I mean, I think Vick gives us the better chance to win right now. Does he? I don't know. Will Foles lead us to the Super Bowl this year if he gets inserted as a starter? Likely not. Could Foles be our next "franchise QB"? I have no idea, but I'd like to find out if we're intending on cutting bait with Vick next year (which I think is the sentiment around here, if only amongst the majority of fans on the EMB, myself included).

[mrfitsaro]

mogwi411, on 09 November 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Foles should not start now, and anyone saying otherwise must hate the kid.  A rookie behind this practice squad line is not going to have a good chance of being successful.  I think there's a better chance his development would be hurt by starting right now.  He won't develop a proper sense of timing in the pocket since he doesn't have a proper NFL oline.  He might get hurt, might develop happy feet, or lose confidence in his ability to play.

I think the kid showed some promise and should be given a chance to start but only when the team can give him a reasonable chance to be successful.

I agree, I want to see what he can do but don't want him to play.  He could regress or get hurt behind this line.  Another alternative I would not want to see is that he would play well and save Andy's job.  I guess for me the best scenario is he starts in 2 or 3 irrelevant games at the end of the season to see what he is made of and the next coaching staff can develop him behind a new offensive line and in a new offensive scheme that doesn't hang the QB out to dry.