67 replies to this topic

[downsoufeagleluva]

Im glad we got to see Foles yesterday.  I wanted him to get snaps and give Vick some time to heal and fight his way back from a benching/injury, or some other adversity to bring back some humility and hunger to his game.


Im really hoping most of you dont see this temporary swap as the key to turning this season around. Reid is happily committed to making sure Vick goes down with this ship. Now I say this is probably a good move.

There were things I saw from Foles that I liked.  He is tough and he is a battler.  But those of you that were expected a relief from turnovers and bad plays....um.....well.....you saw the game.  And Foles got rocked a couple of times a lot harder than I've seen Vick get hit BECAUSE he is willing to stand tall in that sad impression of a POCKET we have.

Vick is probably done from the hits hes taken as an Eagle while most of you that have never played the game have complained about what he hasn't done.  Putting Foles there now is only going to get him done as an NFL QB sooner than later. I hate to be the bearer of that bad news and I'm not so sure how much sense that makes in a lost season.

The only way the Eagles turn this around next season is on the backs of guys that are starting to emerge into serious warriors like Brown, Cooper, Graham, and Cox.  Getting into a TATE war (especially a racially tinged one)  over whether Foles or Vick should be allowed to drive this bus of suckitude into the Atlantic is unrealistic and absurd.

[nottsfootballfan]

"Im really hoping most of you dont see this temporary swap as the key to turning this season around"

No one thinks that, what we do think is we may as well find out if Foles is any good.

[EaglesCB37]

At least we can all agree Vick will be gone after this season. The reason we NEED Nick Foles to play is to know whether or not he can be trusted next season. I can see the Eagles drafting someone like E.J. Manuel or Colin Klein to challenge Foles. Either way, a new era is on the horizon (or quite possibly already here)...

[dilluminati]

I'm for starting Foles, end of discussion.

[TColeFan]

There is no turning this season around... But at least we know that Foles is as good as Vick.

That is except Foles has a higher ceiling.

And it's amazing how much better the OL looked until we were down 2 scores and Dallas sent the house every play.

[downsoufeagleluva]

I am willing to bet stuff I dont even have that you will be making the same excuses for Foles that folks have had to make for Vick.

In fact Im already reading it.  

Why not wait until a coach comes around that will make Foles an effective game manager a la Russel Wilson in Seattle.  

He will fare MUCH better in that role than Reid trying to turn him into a gunslinger and making him a human pinata for opposing defensive lineman in the process, the way he did McNabb, Vick and (insert QB name here).

nottsfootballfan, on 12 November 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

"Im really hoping most of you dont see this temporary swap as the key to turning this season around"

No one thinks that, what we do think is we may as well find out if Foles is any good.

[downsoufeagleluva]

Are you even reading what you are typing?  The only thing you are going to find out from Foles this season is how well he takes hits and throws picks because he doesnt have time to run this sugar coated offense.

EaglesCB37, on 12 November 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

At least we can all agree Vick will be gone after this season. The reason we NEED Nick Foles to play is to know whether or not he can be trusted next season. I can see the Eagles drafting someone like E.J. Manuel or Colin Klein to challenge Foles. Either way, a new era is on the horizon (or quite possibly already here)...

Is the Vick hate really that bad?  Because if you want to start Foles, you hate him too.

dilluminati, on 12 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

I'm for starting Foles, end of discussion.

When did Vick EVER get thrashed by the Cowboys like this?  Its a very unfair comparison to begin with.  

TColeFan, on 12 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

There is no turning this season around... But at least we know that Foles is as good as Vick.

That is except Foles has a higher ceiling.

And it's amazing how much better the OL looked until we were down 2 scores and Dallas sent the house every play.

[TColeFan]

downsoufeagleluva, on 12 November 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

When did Vick EVER get thrashed by the Cowboys like this?  Its a very unfair comparison to begin with.  

So Vick gave himself a concussion yesterday?

[Krukslonelyball]

TColeFan, on 12 November 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

So Vick gave himself a concussion yesterday?

Yes.. he did. He fell down after the dude was trying to keep him up. Are you blind?

[nottsfootballfan]

there is really no argument for not starting foles, apart from if you think we can still make the playoffs and win with vick.

[TColeFan]

Krukslonelyball, on 12 November 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

Yes.. he did. He fell down after the dude was trying to keep him up. Are you blind?

So let me get this right... Vick was standing all by himself, not being chased, not running, and was actually being helped up by a Dallas player when he just decided on his own to fall and smack his head on the ground.

Got it.

[EagleVA]

TColeFan, on 12 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

And it's amazing how much better the OL looked until we were down 2 scores and Dallas sent the house every play.

Excuse me, everyone thought it was the Dallas secondary that wasn't very good but the reality is their DL hasn't pressured the QB since Wade Phillips left, contain Ware and you contain their entire DL.......in other words the OL still blows.

[antiravis]

Foles is a rookie and he played like a rookie yesterday. You can see that he has room for improvement but he also has potential.

Vick has been playing like a rookie for most of the season. He's had years to fix the issues with his game and he hasn't been able to.

The fanbase is sick of stagnancy and mediocrity and Vick and Reid are the most tangible representations of those characteristics. Let it go.

[Solomon]

nottsfootballfan, on 12 November 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

"Im really hoping most of you dont see this temporary swap as the key to turning this season around"

No one thinks that, what we do think is we may as well find out if Foles is any good.

Bingo. That's what it's all about from here on out. Reid needs to stop thinking he can win this year and pray that he can do enough with Foles that Lurie brings him back.

[EagleVA]

EaglesCB37, on 12 November 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

At least we can all agree Vick will be gone after this season.

\
I for one wouldn't count on it, until we get an OL that can block/pass protect, a mobile QB is your best option......if Foles gets the node for the remainder of the season everyone will see many more hits and fumbles.

[TColeFan]

EagleVA, on 12 November 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Excuse me, everyone thought it was the Dallas secondary that wasn't very good but the reality is their DL hasn't pressured the QB since Wade Phillips left, contain Ware and you contain their entire DL.......in other words the OL still blows.

And how many times did you see Vick take off and run in the first quarter compared to how many times Troy/Buck said how good the OL looked when Foles came in?

It's called the Eyeball test... and Foles passed.

Especially since the VIck Nuthuggers were saying that Foles would get blown up behind this line... which didn't happen until we were down 2 scores and Dallas turned up the pressure.

Foles=rookie=mediocre expectations for offense... Vick=10 yr vet=has made this offense mediocre for several games this season.

[blackskimmer]

downsoufeagleluva, on 12 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Im glad we got to see Foles yesterday.  I wanted him to get snaps and give Vick some time to heal and fight his way back from a benching/injury, or some other adversity to bring back some humility and hunger to his game.


Im really hoping most of you dont see this temporary swap as the key to turning this season around. Reid is happily committed to making sure Vick goes down with this ship. Now I say this is probably a good move.

There were things I saw from Foles that I liked.  He is tough and he is a battler.  But those of you that were expected a relief from turnovers and bad plays....um.....well.....you saw the game.  And Foles got rocked a couple of times a lot harder than I've seen Vick get hit BECAUSE he is willing to stand tall in that sad impression of a POCKET we have.

Vick is probably done from the hits hes taken as an Eagle while most of you that have never played the game have complained about what he hasn't done.  Putting Foles there now is only going to get him done as an NFL QB sooner than later. I hate to be the bearer of that bad news and I'm not so sure how much sense that makes in a lost season.

The only way the Eagles turn this around next season is on the backs of guys that are starting to emerge into serious warriors like Brown, Cooper, Graham, and Cox.  Getting into a TATE war (especially a racially tinged one)  over whether Foles or Vick should be allowed to drive this bus of suckitude into the Atlantic is unrealistic and absurd.

Andy and Marty are into the biz of killing QB's.  Look at all the punishment McNabb took his last few years here as well.  We ruined Kolb, Vick and now next up we are going to destroy Foles.  I swear those clowns own a physical therapy clinic on the side.

[we_gotta_believe]

TColeFan, on 12 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

There is no turning this season around... But at least we know that Foles is as good as Vick.

That is except Foles has a higher ceiling.

And it's amazing how much better the OL looked until we were down 2 scores and Dallas sent the house every play.

What's amazing about it if they couldn't protect him on blitzes, or a 3-man rush when he fumbled?

[we_gotta_believe]

TColeFan, on 12 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

And how many times did you see Vick take off and run in the first quarter compared to how many times Troy/Buck said how good the OL looked when Foles came in?

It's called the Eyeball test... and Foles passed.

Especially since the VIck Nuthuggers were saying that Foles would get blown up behind this line... which didn't happen until we were down 2 scores and Dallas turned up the pressure.

Foles=rookie=mediocre expectations for offense... Vick=10 yr vet=has made this offense mediocre for several games this season.

Then that proves the point exactly! You act as if the O-line hasn't been facing teams who have "turned up the pressure" in an attempt to get to our QB. When will you figure it out that teams were only blitzing so much because they knew our line couldn't protect against it and our playcalling couldnt take advantage of it? A change at QB won't stop opposing defense from trying to come after the QB with blitz after blitz.

[bungalo71]

What I saw out of Foles that I liked that we haven't seen from McNabb or Vick is that he was leading receivers with his throws, throwing the ball BEFORE they made their cuts (you know, anticipating the route.. like an actual quarterback), and "throwing the receivers open".  He got the ball out quickly.

He threw a pick (and a few other should have been picks) just because he's not used to seeing NFL db's that can jump those routes quickly, but he's got the right idea.  It'll just take him some time to get used to the speed of the game, but he is DEFINITELY a better actual quarterback than Vick.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

Same results except one has upside and one doesnt.

[ckudrick]

nottsfootballfan, on 12 November 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

there is really no argument for not starting foles, apart from if you think we can still make the playoffs and win with vick.

There's no reason for the fans to not want to see Foles start but what incentive does Reid have to start him?  Reid's future here depends on winning now (and, no, I don't think we're winning anything with Vick but doesn't Reid have to try?)

I am all for starting Foles from here on out but I expect Reid to put Vick back in as soon as he can.

[downsoufeagleluva]

I wont deny that Foles stood tall and delivered on some nice plays.  Like I said, if he had a coach with a more balanced mindset, he can do some great things in the league

But with this coach, I say thats the reason he will get banged up if he STANDS TALL in the pocket the rest of the season.  There is no pocket for this.

He will have to learn how to throw on the run.  I dont think its a strong suit for him.  

bungalo71, on 12 November 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

What I saw out of Foles that I liked that we haven't seen from McNabb or Vick is that he was leading receivers with his throws, throwing the ball BEFORE they made their cuts (you know, anticipating the route.. like an actual quarterback), and "throwing the receivers open".  He got the ball out quickly.

He threw a pick (and a few other should have been picks) just because he's not used to seeing NFL db's that can jump those routes quickly, but he's got the right idea.  It'll just take him some time to get used to the speed of the game, but he is DEFINITELY a better actual quarterback than Vick.

Upside is cool until someone knocks it out of you.

DawkinsOwnage03, on 12 November 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Same results except one has upside and one doesnt.

[nottsfootballfan]

ckudrick, on 12 November 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

There's no reason for the fans to not want to see Foles start but what incentive does Reid have to start him?  Reid's future here depends on winning now (and, no, I don't think we're winning anything with Vick but doesn't Reid have to try?)

I am all for starting Foles from here on out but I expect Reid to put Vick back in as soon as he can.

This is why I said weeks ago that I hate the lurie ultimatum because it forces Reid to stay with Vick.

in a "normal" season they might have changed to foles a few weeks ago.


But now we have got to the stage where we definitely wont make the playoffs, andy's only chance is to improve with foles and then bargain with lurie.

[bungalo71]

downsoufeagleluva, on 12 November 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

I wont deny that Foles stood tall and delivered on some nice plays.  Like I said, if he had a coach with a more balanced mindset, he can do some great things in the league

But with this coach, I say thats the reason he will get banged up if he STANDS TALL in the pocket the rest of the season.  There is no pocket for this.

He will have to learn how to throw on the run.  I dont think its a strong suit for him.  



Upside is cool until someone knocks it out of you.

I mean, he took less hits than Vick because he got the ball out quick.  He's also not built like a twig, so he should be able to take a little abuse.

[judunno]

If the OL wasn't in shambles, I'd be a big advocate for Foles getting the starts.  But it's terrible... and I'd hate to see this guy lose confidence as a result of these fools up front and the idiot play callers (he'll be turning the ball over at an even more alarming rate than Vick... and that doesn't bode well for the confidence of a new QB).  Throwing him in the fire for the rest of the season may not be beneficial for this guy.  I'd give Edwards the start and bring Vick back when his concussion subsides.  But that's with eyes on the future and giving Foles a REAL chance next year with new coaches and an OL that's not patch work.

[odin8888]

dilluminati, on 12 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

I'm for starting Foles, end of discussion.

This!!!^^^^!!!!


Vick has had all the motivation, a 32 year old starting qb doesnt need motivation to win. if he does, let him get motivated in Kansas City or Cleveland.. Foles needs the team behind him, not some vicknuthuggers hating on Foles...
Go eagles

[BDAWK_4EVER]

Foles played a Vick-like game (220 yards, 1 TD, 2 turnovers) but without taking first team reps. Let's see what he can do with a week or two of first team reps.

[eephraim]

The problem with this "need to find out if Foles is good" is that there was this need with Feeley and Kolb as well. They were both garbage.

I know most of the fans on these boards have never played and barely understand what they're seeing when they watch the game (Foles held the ball just as long as Vick by the way), but they have to understand that the failings of this team are systemic. Organizational change in leadership is the only answer. Changing QB's will not change the lack of heart on defense or the play calling. Or the terrible talent on the oline and a safety. Who's the WILL? Jordan is in their and he is so God awful.

But again Foles will be seen as some sort of answer, and the borderline internet skinheads will talk about "intelligence" and not being able to read a blitz. Meanwhile the vast minority of us understand the true problems are at the top.

[antiravis]

eephraim, on 12 November 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

The problem with this "need to find out if Foles is good" is that there was this need with Feeley and Kolb as well. They were both garbage.

But we know Vick is garbage, too.

As it stands, we have no verified quarterback option who can lead us through the playoffs to a championship.

If we find out if Foles is good before next year, maybe we can look into another quarterback option early in the draft or in free agency in the event that he isn't.