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Eli Manning isn't an elite QB


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#1 VaBeach_Eagle

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:51 PM

Phil Simms says Eli Manning isn't an elite quarterback

http://www.nj.com/gi...manning_is.html


It just won't go away.

Eli Manning took plenty of heat for suggesting that he was one of the league's elite quarterbacks before the start of last season. He was coming off a 25-interception campaign in 2010 and the confidence was scoffed at.

Then he went on to win a second Super Bowl -- and a second Super Bowl MVP to boot -- to silence the doubters and earn his place among the quarterback elite, alongside his brother Peyton. But the other prominent quarterback in Giants lore isn't buying it.

“No, he is not one of the elites,” Phil Simms said Monday on CBS Sports Network’s “NFL Monday QB."

Manning began this season well, but has since fallen off. He has a quarterback rating of 51.83 over the last three games, and has thrown four interceptions to no touchdowns over that span. He hasn't had a multiple touchdown game since Week 5 against the Browns. For the season, he's thrown for 2,641 yards with 12 touchdowns and 11 interceptions.

Manning enjoyed his best statistical season in 2011. He threw for a career-high 4,993 yards, 29 touchdowns and 16 interceptions.
“When I hear the word elite, I’m thinking about guys that can make unbelievable plays on the field by themselves," Simms went on to say. "There are very few quarterbacks in that category. So yes, Eli has been a tremendous team player. He has been MVP of the Super Bowl twice. I know that. But the way I look at it, the answer is no.”

Manning, in his ninth season, is second to Simms on the Giants all-time passing list with 30,220 yards. Simms finished his 15-year career, the entirety with the Giants, with 33,462 yards.



#2 Gmen4ever

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:57 PM

I agree with Phil. He isn't, and never has been. Too inconsistent

#3 robnail

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

Phil Simms is just jealous. Eli is and always will be CLUTCH when it counts and that makes him elite. Anyone who thinks otherwise is day dreaming and blowing smoke.

#4 Gmen4ever

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:09 PM

Phil Simms is just jealous. Eli is and always will be CLUTCH when it counts and that makes him elite. Anyone who thinks otherwise is day dreaming and blowing smoke.


Clutch does not equal elite. You are insane if you believe otherwise

#5 Happyfoosball

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

I knew this was coming and there will be more of it over the next week and a half because Eli hasn't been playing like an elite QB at all the past month. He's been pretty bad honestly. But the thing with Eli that I always point out now is that it's easy to kick him when he's down, but just know he's going to start playing well again and when he does that results in scary, scary things for the teams that play the Giants. As far as Phil Simms, he also said Dan Fouts, Marino, and Warren Moon were also not elite. Simm's definition of elite is much stingier than most people.

#6 L.E.

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

Who cares? He brought the franchise two SBs so far. Does any of this "elite" crap matter at all?

#7 blakjak

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:45 PM

Who cares? He brought the franchise two SBs so far. Does any of this "elite" crap matter at all?


This^

Call him whatever you want. There isnt another QB in the game today I would want playing for the Giants in the 4th quarter.

#8 EagleJoe8

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:49 PM

Clutch does not equal elite. You are insane if you believe otherwise


Exactly. Tim Tebow was "clutch" a lot last year. To think he's elite should get someone jail time.

#9 blakjak

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:52 PM

Exactly. Tim Tebow was "clutch" a lot last year. To think he's elite should get someone jail time.


Theres no comparison between Eli and Tebow.


One is a QB , the other is Quasimodo.

#10 Froggy

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:02 PM

It's amazing how much we get caught up in superlatives these days...assigning a label to every single athlete in American has become imperative. What's worse, it's the fact that it doesn't f'ing matter whether he passes for elite or not, it really really doesn't.


I'm gonna start calling it the "ESPN First Take generation"...I blame them.

#11 EagleJoe8

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:06 PM

Theres no comparison between Eli and Tebow.


One is a QB , the other is Quasimodo.


I wasn't comparing the two. I was agreeing with Gmen's point.

#12 Shocker54

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:13 PM

No s***

the Giants D Line has led them to those SB's

anyone with a clue could tell you that

#13 Gmen4ever

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:17 PM

I knew this was coming and there will be more of it over the next week and a half because Eli hasn't been playing like an elite QB at all the past month. He's been pretty bad honestly. But the thing with Eli that I always point out now is that it's easy to kick him when he's down, but just know he's going to start playing well again and when he does that results in scary, scary things for the teams that play the Giants. As far as Phil Simms, he also said Dan Fouts, Marino, and Warren Moon were also not elite. Simm's definition of elite is much stingier than most people.


Actually, he didn't say they weren't elite. In the context of what passes for "elite" today is what he meant. Back then, nobody gave a damn about this stupid ish and who was better than whom. All of those guys were great QB's and everyone knew and accepted it.

“‘Elite,’ it’s a new word in the football vocabulary. It really is,” Simms said. “It’s this new thing. I don’t remember hearing it 25-30 years ago. With the way it’s talked about now, Dan Marino was not elite, Warren Moon was never elite, Dan Fouts was not elite. Even though they went to the Hall of Fame, they’re not elite.


It really is just another stupid tag to hang on an athlete, and one that doesn't mean anything.

#14 Eagle Jeff

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:33 PM

I don't know why this is news. He's not elite the same way Carson Palmer is not elite. Eli Manning is essentially Trent Dilfer, Frank Reich, Doug Flutie, Jeff Hostetler, etc. and the last the time I checked there's nothing wrong with that. It's not worth going crazy over.

#15 philly_phan74

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:41 PM

Seems to me and may be wrong but Eli is the greatest QB in Giants history. He is their Donovan with alittle more credentials. Not an Elite QB but a Pro Bowl QB with SB wins. Like Donovan, he is better then your average starter and can look elite at times but at other times is sproadic and unreliable.

So my question is, Will Eli be in the HOF?

#16 BKLYNYG

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

If you look at the Giants post Simms QB history you'll understand why we love Eli. I'm more than happy with a top 10 QB that's not elite, but wins big games.

#17 H-field Hero

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:54 PM

Dan Marino was never elite? :mellow2:

Granted I was like 13-14 years old when he retired so I didn't get to see his prime years, but he was a stat machine was he not?

#18 Happyfoosball

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

Dan Marino was never elite? :mellow2:

Granted I was like 13-14 years old when he retired so I didn't get to see his prime years, but he was a stat machine was he not?


I saw him play loads of times from 91 till when he retired in 99 or 2000. By todays definition of "elite" he wasn't elite. By MY Definition he was. I think any top 5 QB is eliite so whatever. I still think Eli is top 5, Just like I thought Brees was top 5 when he was stinking it up early in the year.

#19 Froggy

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:33 PM

Dan Marino was never elite? :mellow2:

Granted I was like 13-14 years old when he retired so I didn't get to see his prime years, but he was a stat machine was he not?



Well in order to be elite you have to have gaudy stats, you have to play really well in September because the spotlight is very bright when the season starts...and you have to play well in October because after starting slow you wanna bounce back, or after starting fast you wanna maintain your high level...and you also have to perform well in November because that's the month that precedes December, which is like a HUGE month in the NFL...but that's not enough, you also have to be a beast in January and you need to carry your team into that first week of February. And no matter what the circumstances are, you need to be excellent in the Super Bowl.


Other than that, you also need to be consistent. You need to be a media darling. You need to have a significant number of pro bowl votes. Oh and, again, you need to have crazy arse stats so television networks can wow the leering public by displaying those stats during games with a backdrop of epic movie soundtracks and some highlights.

Only then, you are truly elite.

#20 blakjak

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:37 PM

Well in order to be elite ......


Well said. :lol:

#21 Gmen2005

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:49 PM

as long as he keeps winning, and winning superbowls I couldn't care less what people call him. He's an excellent quarterback with the ability to raise his game in the 4th quarter and that's all I want.

#22 philly_phan74

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:23 PM

Eli's issue is his WTF moments. We saw a couple last week and we usually seem them VS the Eagles.

#23 Gmen4ever

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:29 PM

If you look at the Giants post Simms QB history you'll understand why we love Eli. I'm more than happy with a top 10 QB that's not elite, but wins big games.


Absolutely. He doesn't have to live up to the ridiculous standards of some people just to have a worthless tag next to his name. I'm very glad he's a Giant, and he's far from being done.

#24 philly_phan74

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:38 PM

So Here's a questions, Say those two Super Bowls are Losses, What are your feelings towards Eli then?

#25 VaBeach_Eagle

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

I agree with Phil. He isn't, and never has been. Too inconsistent

I agree, and it's not an insult to him. He's a good QB, better than what the Eagles have had. He's won 2 Super Bowls and earned MVP. That and his last name will get him into the HOF one day. Those things don't equal elite though.

Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, John Elway, Peyton Manning... those were/are modern day elite QBs. I wouldn't but Manning in that category. Eli? I'd put him in the category under that. Vick? A couple of categories below that.

#26 BKLYNYG

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:17 AM

So Here's a questions, Say those two Super Bowls are Losses, What are your feelings towards Eli then?


His legacy would obviously be downgraded, along with every other player and coach on the team. Webster has played horribly so far this season, but I still have faith he can turn it around. Why? Because I've seen him do it in so many big playoff games during the 2 SB runs. Same goes for Eli, Coughlin, the Dline, etc.

#27 Dark_Crusader

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:31 AM

eli sucks

#28 Gmen4ever

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:21 AM

So Here's a questions, Say those two Super Bowls are Losses, What are your feelings towards Eli then?


The way I'd see it, he still got them there, or at least had a hand in getting them there. Obviously, he wouldn't be looked at as being as good as he is, but thats happening now anyway. Thats the most frustrating aspect of his game. We KNOW how good he can play because he's done it, and when he turns in the kind of crap he's been turning in lately, it makes zero sense. You have to give credit to opposing defenses obviously, but a lot of it is him not having his head in the game and making horrible decisions.

#29 LesDawg1978

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:50 AM

Even though he's been in a slump lately, Eli is a very good QB. In this league, there are Elite QBs and then there are very good QBs which comprise of the top 10. I agree with most because I'm with whoever can bring you a RING, that's who I want. Unfortunately, we live in a world where social media almost demands us to seperate any and everything with these dumb comparisons. Good news is, it gives us all a forum to come and discuss while occasionally poking fun at one another or watching Rich, GMen and Mighty go at it.

I never thought he was Elite but I also believe that he has it in him to be the best in the league with better and more consistent decision making.

#30 GA4M

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:32 AM

And how many of those Elite QB's can say this? Here's some of the things Eli has done.. :roll:

Things Eli Manning has done that no other QB in the history of the NFL can claim.

- Won 5 road playoff games
- Completed 100 passes in a postseason (106 in 2011)
- Thrown for 1,200 or more yards in a postseason (1,219 in 2011)
- Led two game winning TD drives in the final 4 minutes of a Super Bowl
- Win a Super Bowl with the 32nd ranked rushing offense
- Lead at least 21 4th quarter comebacks (including playoffs) in his first 8 seasons (Tom Brady is 2nd with 20)

- Beaten Tom Brady and Bill Belichick 2x in the postseason
- Win 2 road playoff games at Lambeau field
- Win at least 6 playoff games against teams who went 13-3 or better
- Win 10 road games in a single season (including playoffs, 2007)
- Win a Super Bowl with a defense that allowed 400 or more points
- Win a Super Bowl while accounting for over 80% of your teams offense (threw for 4,933 of our 6,161 yards of total offense)

- Throw for at least 27,000 yards in his first 8 seasons while winning a SB in that span (he's won 2, and 2 MVPs), only 4 other QB have thrown for 27,000+ in their first 8 seasons, none of them won a SB though.

- Thrown 2 go ahead TD's in the 4th quarter of a Super Bowl
- Driven his team down to score the winning TD in the Super Bowl with less than 2 minutes to play when anything less meant defeat. (i.e. 4 point+ deficit)