66 replies to this topic

[pgcd3]

Many names have been thrown around for the next HC. One line of thinking is that Lurie likes to go for the hot young assistant with bright ideas. To me without hiring an experienced football GM that's a recipe for disaster. Mike Tomlin was successful because he was bright AND because the Steelers have a great FO infrastructure. Throwing some young coach in the mix with Howie is destined for years of terrible mistakes that could have been avoided IMO.

Really getting any coach without adding an experienced football voice to the FO is likely have problems. But at least a guy who's run the show as an NFL coach before would be stronger in mix.

Unfortunately I get the sense that Lurie is completely delusional about the quality of this entire organization.

Thoughts?

[dba042681]

Firing Reid without getting rid of Roseman will be like putting a band-aid on a fracture.

[time2rock]

Couldn't agree more.  I doubt Lurie wants to remove Howie from the organization, but am hopeful that he will move him to another position where he not be responsible for talent evaluation (since I believe that responsibility primarily fell on Reid anyway).

If Howie is responsible for selecting the new HC and has a much greater role in talent evaluation, we're in for a long stretch of bad years.

[Blitz24]

Andy got Juan and Lurie got Howie, gold standard organization !

[CountBlah]

This is my biggest fear.   Lurie likes to find a diamond in the ruff when it comes to coaches.   That's not inherently bad.  But with a no-talent GM,  that is a deadly combo.  We will be down for years if we go that route.

[macgregor]

I'm always amazed at the Roseman hate based on nothing but assumption. On a team where Andy Reid has absolute power, please tell me one thing that can without a doubt be attributed to Howie. Those that seem to know him and his decisions so intimately should definitely be able to do that. The fact is, no such info has ever been released. So essentially these so-called 'insiders' are all talking out their collective blow holes. Now you take these assumptions and start to try to build on them by saying what would happen if we got an inexperienced coach. I'm not in favor of an inexperienced coach, but please. Roseman should have nothing to do with it.

[Blitz24]

macgregor, on 16 November 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

I'm always amazed at the Roseman hate based on nothing but assumption. On a team where Andy Reid has absolute power, please tell me one thing that can without a doubt be attributed to Howie. Those that seem to know him and his decisions so intimately should definitely be able to do that. The fact is, no such info has ever been released. So essentially these so-called 'insiders' are all talking out their collective blow holes. Now you take these assumptions and start to try to build on them by saying what would happen if we got an inexperienced coach. I'm not in favor of an inexperienced coach, but please. Roseman should have nothing to do with it.

Are you saying that Roseman will not have any influence in hiring a new HC?

[mtgiebler]

Everyone was in love with howie after the free agent spending spree.  Get DRC and a 2nd for Kolb!  Trade for our best MLB since Trotter.  Nnamdi, who knew he got old in one year.  Babin, 18 sacks.  I would rather have howie, an aggressive GM making trades and bringing in talent then someone like Heckert and sign one player in the offseason. (Mike McMahon) (Nate Wayne).

I love Andy Reid but lets put the focas of the lack of playmakers on the pitiful drafts we have had.  And that is all Andy.  Say what you will but you know he has final say on who gets drafted.

[PrinceKelby]

time2rock, on 16 November 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Couldn't agree more.  I doubt Lurie wants to remove Howie from the organization, but am hopeful that he will move him to another position where he not be responsible for talent evaluation (since I believe that responsibility primarily fell on Reid anyway).

If Howie is responsible for selecting the new HC and has a much greater role in talent evaluation, we're in for a long stretch of bad years.

The question is who has more say in the players AR or Howie?  Howie has done a nice job bringing guys in but I HIGHLY doubt he has had final say on draft picks, cuts, etc as much as AR.  Hell at least Howie has admitted to mistakes and did pretty well this past draft with adding Ryans etc.

I'm willing to give Howie a year or two to see what happens without AR calling all the shots.  Howie may not be as big of problem as people are believing because at the end of the day the final decisions are AR's.

[CountBlah]

macgregor, on 16 November 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

I'm always amazed at the Roseman hate based on nothing but assumption. On a team where Andy Reid has absolute power, please tell me one thing that can without a doubt be attributed to Howie. Those that seem to know him and his decisions so intimately should definitely be able to do that. The fact is, no such info has ever been released. So essentially these so-called 'insiders' are all talking out their collective blow holes. Now you take these assumptions and start to try to build on them by saying what would happen if we got an inexperienced coach. I'm not in favor of an inexperienced coach, but please. Roseman should have nothing to do with it.

Watkins was a 100% Howie pick.  The rest of the "talent" from the draft the last couple of years has been pathetic.   Andy may have final say,  but you are silly to think Howie doesn't put the lists of players in front of Andy.

[time2rock]

PrinceKelby, on 16 November 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

The question is who has more say in the players AR or Howie?  Howie has done a nice job bringing guys in but I HIGHLY doubt he has had final say on draft picks, cuts, etc as much as AR.  Hell at least Howie has admitted to mistakes and did pretty well this past draft with adding Ryans etc.

I'm willing to give Howie a year or two to see what happens without AR calling all the shots.  Howie may not be as big of problem as people are believing because at the end of the day the final decisions are AR's.

I also believe Andy had more say in which players to target, would tell Howie to go after them, and Howie worked the negotiations.  Same with the draft - I believe Andy is the one hand-picking the players, not Howie.  Reid has always stated he has final say over all personnel decisions.

We're about to find out if Howie is capable in the area of talent evaluation, now that he won't have Reid directing him in that area.

I just wish we had someone with an extensive background in talent evaluation as GM.  I'd prefer an experienced/proven GM to couple with an unproven HC than an inexperienced/unproven GM coupled with a proven HC (or worse, an inexperienced/unproven GM coupled with an unproven HC, which seems like the likely course).

[pgcd3]

macgregor, on 16 November 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

I'm always amazed at the Roseman hate based on nothing but assumption. On a team where Andy Reid has absolute power, please tell me one thing that can without a doubt be attributed to Howie. Those that seem to know him and his decisions so intimately should definitely be able to do that. The fact is, no such info has ever been released. So essentially these so-called 'insiders' are all talking out their collective blow holes. Now you take these assumptions and start to try to build on them by saying what would happen if we got an inexperienced coach. I'm not in favor of an inexperienced coach, but please. Roseman should have nothing to do with it.

It's true we don't know what's attributable to Howie. I've said that before. BUT given the team performance and bungled decisions I don't see how you could essentially be for promoting Howie to more power. Really in a best case Howie's just not to blame. This next chapter requires someone really experienced as GM. You cannot couple inexperience with inexperience and expect to get positive results

[pgcd3]

PrinceKelby, on 16 November 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

The question is who has more say in the players AR or Howie?  Howie has done a nice job bringing guys in but I HIGHLY doubt he has had final say on draft picks, cuts, etc as much as AR.  Hell at least Howie has admitted to mistakes and did pretty well this past draft with adding Ryans etc.

I'm willing to give Howie a year or two to see what happens without AR calling all the shots.  Howie may not be as big of problem as people are believing because at the end of the day the final decisions are AR's.

I agree the last draft was good but the team is not. The GM is supposed to be a team builder which means putting the right parts together. The lack of LBs behind the wide 9 last year showed no football smarts. Howie's fault? Again maybe not but he obviously didn't help. How are we supposed to believe he'll help a new coach build a team? Talent evaluation really is the least of my concerns

[PrinceKelby]

pgcd3, on 16 November 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

I agree the last draft was good but the team is not. The GM is supposed to be a team builder which means putting the right parts together. The lack of LBs behind the wide 9 last year showed no football smarts. Howie's fault? Again maybe not but he obviously didn't help. How are we supposed to believe he'll help a new coach build a team? Talent evaluation really is the least of my concerns

He's brought the pieces in that AR wanted him to.  This is a team that has talent that is just poorly coached.  All the signs are there and how people don't think it's a poorly coached team are beyond me.  Howie can't do AR's job on the sideline for him to.

GM is much more than "talent evaluation" anyway as it's more of running the operations side probably more so than talent eval etc.  AR has NEVER valued LB's so you're surprised AR over looked them when moving to the wide 9 last year?  Made up for it with Kendricks and Ryans this year I would say. . .

Nate Allen is a very good coverage corner being asked to play in the box etc.  More square peg round hole stuff from this coaching staff.  I am sure the D would be different had AR not hired a DL coach before hiring a DC.  That just makes soooo little sense it's mind boggling.

[pgcd3]

PrinceKelby, on 16 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

He's brought the pieces in that AR wanted him to.  This is a team that has talent that is just poorly coached.  All the signs are there and how people don't think it's a poorly coached team are beyond me.  Howie can't do AR's job on the sideline for him to.

GM is much more than "talent evaluation" anyway as it's more of running the operations side probably more so than talent eval etc.  AR has NEVER valued LB's so you're surprised AR over looked them when moving to the wide 9 last year?  Made up for it with Kendricks and Ryans this year I would say. . .

Nate Allen is a very good coverage corner being asked to play in the box etc.  More square peg round hole stuff from this coaching staff.  I am sure the D would be different had AR not hired a DL coach before hiring a DC.  That just makes soooo little sense it's mind boggling.

No question the blame falls at Andy's feet. But to give Howie more power now is ridiculous too. A GM is supposed to aid the coach in football decisions. Some GMs have complete power over football decisions. We've seen nothing from Howie to believe going in that direction won't be a disaster

[macgregor]

CountBlah, on 16 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

watson was a 100% Howie pick.  The rest of the "talent" from the draft the last couple of years has been pathetic.   Andy may have final say,  but you are silly to think Howie doesn't put the lists of players in front of Andy.

Watson ...do you mean Watkins? My God man! You don't even know his name! What evidence do you have that Howie picked him? You offer none. If Howie puts a list in front of Reid, who then makes the pick? As if Reid didn't have his own list he was working off of.

Howie will likely have some influence in picking a coach. But he'll submit whatever list to Jeffrey, who will have his own list -as well as make the pick. Hell, Jeffrey may even gander at the EMB -submitting some of our choices. We're as powerful as Howie in that case.

it's really hard to tell what power Howie actually has. As a contract negotiator, he's yet to fail to sign a player nor has he lost a player.

Andy Reid in his 14 years here has usurped power from every angle on this team. Because when there has been failure, the option has always been to put the decision in the hands of our 'best football mind': Andy. He may have a great football mind but like Vick, is bad on making decisions. This team is a mess right now because of those bad decisions.

Howie was not hired because of his pure football knowledge, but because of his brain. You see, with the right brain one can gather immense football knowledge quickly. Much more so than the right football knowledge can produce the most intelligent decisions. This is a Reid run organization more than ever now. It had to come down to it in order to so clearly justify firing him.

[L.E.]

I don't really see how much worse it could be. They already draft busts regularly and can't even get FAs right most of the time.

[PrinceKelby]

pgcd3, on 16 November 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

No question the blame falls at Andy's feet. But to give Howie more power now is ridiculous too. A GM is supposed to aid the coach in football decisions. Some GMs have complete power over football decisions. We've seen nothing from Howie to believe going in that direction won't be a disaster

What are you talking about?  Yes the Lockout draft sucked but so much was still up in the air what the hell did you expect them to do?  They reached to fill holes that they had so that they could field a complete football team.  Howie admitted this mistake and said that he has learned from it. . .which is why this past draft looked SOOO much better than almost any draft the Eagles have had since we draft Westbrook etc.  Hell I'd rather have a guy who will admit he messed up and actually SHOWED improvement which is more than I can say about AR and company.

The guy has been with the team since 2000. . .yet in 12 years apparently he's learned and knows nothing of football?  Hard to believe that.

@CountBlah. . .Watkins was a Mudd pick plain and effing simple and he admitted that they reached last year due to the lockout.  With as many terrible drafts that we've had it's pretty ridiculous to bash a guy only his 3rd year in when he has to bow to AR who is known to be pretty damn bad when it comes to drafting for the most part.

[pgcd3]

PrinceKelby, on 16 November 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

What are you talking about?  Yes the Lockout draft sucked but so much was still up in the air what the hell did you expect them to do?  They reached to fill holes that they had so that they could field a complete football team.  Howie admitted this mistake and said that he has learned from it. . .which is why this past draft looked SOOO much better than almost any draft the Eagles have had since we draft Westbrook etc.  Hell I'd rather have a guy who will admit he messed up and actually SHOWED improvement which is more than I can say about AR and company.

The guy has been with the team since 2000. . .yet in 12 years apparently he's learned and knows nothing of football?  Hard to believe that.

@CountBlah. . .Watkins was a Mudd pick plain and effing simple and he admitted that they reached last year due to the lockout.  With as many terrible drafts that we've had it's pretty ridiculous to bash a guy only his 3rd year in when he has to bow to AR who is known to be pretty damn bad when it comes to drafting for the most part.

It's was a good draft but so far Howie's 1 for 3 and outside of drafting he's shown no ability to fit a team together in a way that builds winning. You can blame Reid all you want but I cannot see how you'd look at Howie and say he's ready for a promotion. That's insane.

[PrinceKelby]

pgcd3, on 16 November 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

It's was a good draft but so far Howie's 1 for 3 and outside of drafting he's shown no ability to fit a team together in a way that builds winning. You can blame Reid all you want but I cannot see how you'd look at Howie and say he's ready for a promotion. That's insane.

How is he getting a promotion?  Hell we don't even have an inkling as to whom the new coach could or will be which will determine what Howie does.  Howie has brought talent in here but as usual, it's being completely mishandled with the scheme and coaching.

Considering that after his first year AR decided to completely change the schemes on the DL and OL so some guys who didn't fit had to go while others who wouldn't fit the old system have been brought in.  This team SHOULD be much better than it is and that ISN'T Howie's fault at all.  He's done a pretty damn good job assembling players to fit whatever scheme AR and his coaches want to run but it's up to THEM, not HIM, to put it all together.

From his 1st draft. . Brandon Graham is playing pretty well now that he is healthy. . .Nate Allen has played well when he has been and not been asked to be an "in the box safety" when the even said they drafted him to be a "ball hawking" safety as he has been and is pretty damn good in coverage.

Chaney was looking good before injury and Riley Cooper is solid.  I don't know what else more you really want from the guy but I'm willing to give him a couple years without AR to determine just "what" he is able to do before declaring that "he knows nothing" and "sucks."

[pgcd3]

PrinceKelby, on 16 November 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

How is he getting a promotion?  Hell we don't even have an inkling as to whom the new coach could or will be which will determine what Howie does.  Howie has brought talent in here but as usual, it's being completely mishandled with the scheme and coaching.

If AR is removed and the new coach doesn't have the same power as AR then Howie is getting a promotion if he no one else is brought in above him.

The 'talent' isn't playing like talent. Howie has no clue how to build a team. As Asante said it's not fantasy football.  Somehow you're giving Howie credit for the names but excusing him for any production issues. Bottom line the team stinks and Howie is the GM. Promoting the guy is nuts

[Phila.:chip]

mtgiebler, on 16 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Everyone was in love with howie after the free agent spending spree.  Get DRC and a 2nd for Kolb!  Trade for our best MLB since Trotter.  Nnamdi, who knew he got old in one year.  Babin, 18 sacks.  I would rather have howie, an aggressive GM making trades and bringing in talent then someone like Heckert and sign one player in the offseason. (Mike McMahon) (Nate Wayne).

I love Andy Reid but lets put the focas of the lack of playmakers on the pitiful drafts we have had.  And that is all Andy.  Say what you will but you know he has final say on who gets drafted.

You win SBs with the drafts,and the drafts under Howie have been HORRIBLE for the last couple of seasons. Now maybe it was all Reid, and Maybe it wasn't, but we need an experienced football guy in this regime. For all we know, Howie's title as a GM is just that, a title. Lurie may hire an experienced GM as Vice President  which would make whom ever Lurie hired the defacto GM.

[CountBlah]

macgregor, on 16 November 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Watson ...do you mean Watkins? My God man! You don't even know his name! What evidence do you have that Howie picked him? You offer none. If Howie puts a list in front of Reid, who then makes the pick? As if Reid didn't have his own list he was working off of.

Howie will likely have some influence in picking a coach. But he'll submit whatever list to Jeffrey, who will have his own list -as well as make the pick. Hell, Jeffrey may even gander at the EMB -submitting some of our choices. We're as powerful as Howie in that case.

it's really hard to tell what power Howie actually has. As a contract negotiator, he's yet to fail to sign a player nor has he lost a player.

Andy Reid in his 14 years here has usurped power from every angle on this team. Because when there has been failure, the option has always been to put the decision in the hands of our 'best football mind': Andy. He may have a great football mind but like Vick, is bad on making decisions. This team is a mess right now because of those bad decisions.

Howie was not hired because of his pure football knowledge, but because of his brain. You see, with the right brain one can gather immense football knowledge quickly. Much more so than the right football knowledge can produce the most intelligent decisions. This is a Reid run organization more than ever now. It had to come down to it in order to so clearly justify firing him.

typing on a phone does tend to suck monkey Bs.

I don't know, all the stories about Howie gushing over him, saying he's a Mudd guy, falling in love with him at he Senior bowl, etc..

[time2rock]

L.E., on 16 November 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

I don't really see how much worse it could be. They already draft busts regularly and can't even get FAs right most of the time.

This is true - if Reid really is responsible for the drafts over the past several years, it can't get much worse under Howie (**knock on wood**).

[pgcd3]

time2rock, on 16 November 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

This is true - if Reid really is responsible for the drafts over the past several years, it can't get much worse under Howie (**knock on wood**).

We are actually at the point where the team can't get much worse but the point is to make moves to make it much better :)

[NOTW]

PrinceKelby, on 16 November 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

The question is who has more say in the players AR or Howie?  Howie has done a nice job bringing guys in but I HIGHLY doubt he has had final say on draft picks, cuts, etc as much as AR.  Hell at least Howie has admitted to mistakes and did pretty well this past draft with adding Ryans etc.

I'm willing to give Howie a year or two to see what happens without AR calling all the shots.  Howie may not be as big of problem as people are believing because at the end of the day the final decisions are AR's.

This is how I feel, too.

With reports of a power struggle and Banner gone this year, this was the first year that Howie really had a chance to put his stamp on the draft.  The overwhelming majority of fans were very happy with the draft this year.  You have starters or potential starters (possible franchise QB?) with Cox, Curry, Boykin, Kendricks, Foles.  That's pretty good.

Reid is the VP of Football Operations.  He's in charge of EVERYTHING!  I really don't understand how people don't get this.  Reid is above everyone but Lurie.

The free agent signings in 2010, most agreed were good moves.  They went a little crazy with trying to add VY, Ronnie Brown, Steve Smith...buying into the "dream team" hype a little bit.  But because of horrible, horrible drafting on defense they needed to sign those players desperately.  Cullen Jenkins is a very good DT.  DRC is a good CB and was worth trading for (plus they got a 2nd rounder).  Babin was good at what he was asked to do in the wide 9 scheme.  Nnamdi struggled but part of that was Juan's coaching and putting him out of position.  They needed a backup QB and VY wasn't a terrible choice considering the playing style although I didn't like him.

Last offseason, people were happy not only with the draft, but with extending their own (Cole, Jackson, Herremans, McCoy) and trading for DeMeco Ryans.  All are positive moves.

I agree that the talent is there for the most part and new coaching is needed.  But I also agree that it can't just be Howie alone.  They need to hire an experienced football mind to run some aspect.  Unless they hire a coach who has some front office power, which only makes sense if going after a retread.

[dmor]

pgcd3, on 16 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Many names have been thrown around for the next HC. One line of thinking is that Lurie likes to go for the hot young assistant with bright ideas. To me without hiring an experienced football GM that's a recipe for disaster. Mike Tomlin was successful because he was bright AND because the Steelers have a great FO infrastructure. Throwing some young coach in the mix with Howie is destined for years of terrible mistakes that could have been avoided IMO.

Really getting any coach without adding an experienced football voice to the FO is likely have problems. But at least a guy who's run the show as an NFL coach before would be stronger in mix.

Unfortunately I get the sense that Lurie is completely delusional about the quality of this entire organization.

Thoughts?

Howie is a valuable asset to the organization when it comes to contracts.  The team will be at a loss if he is fired.  Take him away from the personnel decision making side of the office, and your problem is solved.

[macgregor]

CountBlah, on 16 November 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

typing on a phone does tend to suck monkey Bs.

I don't know, all the stories about Howie gushing over him, saying he's a Mudd guy, falling in love with him at he Senior bowl, etc..

Andy could have listened to us in 1999 and picked Ricky Williams. A 1st round pick is Andy's call, regardless of what fans or Howie says -especially with his tenure. How long had Howie been GM in 2011?

[AceofSpades]

I'm honestly intrigued and interested to see what Roseman can do without Andy Reid calling the shots. The way I'd been looking at it, he was just doing what Reid wanted and we honestly haven't gotten a sense as to who he is. At the same time I'd like the see the Eagles front office reshuffled kinda like Baltimore's and Pittsburgh's. Those two teams can let players & coaches leave and when they replace them it's like nothing ever changed.

[eagle45]

I don't think any GM in the entire NFL has done a worse job over the past 3 offseasons than Roseman.  Sure, other teams have whiffed on picks.  Roseman, however, has whiffed on nearly every pick, reached on most, blown huge money on FA busts, and allowed players to leave who achieved substantial success elsewhere.