50 replies to this topic

[dmor]

Looks like the perfect storm happened.  This year, we had a witches brew of the tragedy during training camp, the Luries' divorce, Banner's departure, Howie's exposure as a weak judge of talent coupled with his rise in power, and the overall free fall of the team and the head coach.  Plus, we're seeing that there probably isn't a long term answer at quarterback, a weak offensive line, and a defense in shambles.

Unless they strike gold again with a good hire at the head coaching position, I don't see the Eagles climbing out of this for a while.

[IggleWalt]

Oh no, we are doomed.

[Born_Green]

Lourie divorced?  THen why the heck arent we going back to kelly Green ? LOL THis darker green was all her idea!

[GT500]

Meh

[eephraim]

Of course it is. It's full on rebuild mode from top to bottom. That's years of games like we've seen this season without the occasional explosive McCoy TD. Makes for some ugly football in the years to come...

[biglou22]

dmor, on 22 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Looks like the perfect storm happened.  This year, we had a witches brew of the tragedy during training camp, the Luries' divorce, Banner's departure, Howie's exposure as a weak judge of talent coupled with his rise in power, and the overall free fall of the team and the head coach.  Plus, we're seeing that there probably isn't a long term answer at quarterback, a weak offensive line, and a defense in shambles.

Unless they strike gold again with a good hire at the head coaching position, I don't see the Eagles climbing out of this for a while.

For some reason fans don't see that happening. But the fact is there is an incredibly high percentage chance that the Eagles now become like the other 24 teams in the NFL. Which is basically...............
-suck most years
-then get lucky every once in awhile and actually win 9-10 games
- really get lucky and make the playoffs about once every 5 years
-or get really really lucky and string together 2 or 3 good years.

Listen, there is nobody that is a bigger Reid fan then me. But I also understand it is time to move on.
But I sure wish fans would look at the history of the NFL to see just how small the chances are that the next coach will be anything close to Reid.
I hope, whoever the next coach is comes in and makes Reid look like he was only an average coach as some fans believe.
But man,,, history is certainly not in our favor. Hopefully the next hire won't simply be the 1st of at least a few over the next decade which sadly is the norm in the NFL.. And at the end of it. Nothing has changed.
Hopefully the Eagles won't be looking for a coach to make this team the constant winning playoff bound team it has been for well over a decade a decade from now.

[djbigf]

only professional FO suckups like dmoron and bigblew think that getting rid of banner/reid/rosenrosen isn't an improvement

[dmor]

djbigf, on 23 November 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

only professional FO suckups like dmoron and bigblew think that getting rid of banner/reid/rosenrosen isn't an improvement

Who is Rosen, and now that the front office will have been blown up in a few weeks - who do you propose to put in there?

[Bear Grylls]

Oh Dmor, you old blowhard!!

[Baynit]

This team is still good enough to be a winner.  I dont expect a full on rebuild with a new coach.  It wouldnt suprise me if Mike Vick was back next year.

The Peters and Kelce need to get healthy.  Move Herramans to RG and find a new RT.  The defense needs an overhaul, a new secondary for sure.....

[PoconoDon]

dmor, on 23 November 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

Who is Rosen, and now that the front office will have been blown up in a few weeks - who do you propose to put in there?

Marc Ross as V.P. of Football Operations (I'd say GM but Howie has that title).....He's a candidate that I'd consider. I'm sure there are others out there as well.

The truth is that there is always another guy.....Andy Reid was a QB coach at GB...how much developing did he really have to do with Favre?...probably not very much. He was never an offensive coordinator, he never called a game, he was never a head coach or an assistant head coach anywhere, he was never a WR coach....he had next to no experience that would qualify him for the HC position with the Eagles when he was hired, yet he did good overall....not great but still good.

So you see, there's always another guy...........and he may be better than the guy he replaces....Reid was.

[blackskimmer]

Well to be honest Reid set us back a few years.  However we can fix this team, it is fixable.

1)We find a legit coach, Chip Kelly or Gruden would succeed here.  Both have experience in succeeding with less then passable QB talent.

2)Fixing the line might not be that hard.  There is a legit starting left tackle this year he will go top 5-6 which is where we will be picking.  You can slide him to right tackle, Peters at left, kelce (over rated) at center, Todd at LG Scott or Mathis at RG.  Thats a pretty solid line.  Our biggest problem will be our O-line depth, I could i would trade back up and grab any of the Alabama front 5 entering the draft as well.

3) We got the RB talent, Brown and McCoy, Havilli are all legit talents.  They are under used and improperly used right now.  New coach can fix this.

4) We NEED a safety in the worst way.  A high 2nd rounder can grab us one.  

5) I know most people hate this idea but having Vick back next year at a hopefully much reduced salary if Foles doesnt work out is a legit option.  It really is.  I still believe that given time to actually throw the ball and a balanced offense that also doesnt call for the QB to run between the tackles on designed runs would be fantastic for his career.  Seeing as im not totally sold on the QB's in this years draft.

  We need to do the right thing this year and go heavy Oline,  especially for depth.  This team can win the division next year IF we shore up the oline and find safety talent and have a coach who isnt incompetent.  Also a new OC is going to work wonders for this team.

[Caribbean Soul]

blackskimmer, on 23 November 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Well to be honest Reid set us back a few years.  However we can fix this team, it is fixable.

1)We find a legit coach, Chip Kelly or Gruden would succeed here.  Both have experience in succeeding with less then passable QB talent.

2)Fixing the line might not be that hard.  There is a legit starting left tackle this year he will go top 5-6 which is where we will be picking.  You can slide him to right tackle, Peters at left, kelce (over rated) at center, Todd at LG Scott or Mathis at RG.  Thats a pretty solid line.  Our biggest problem will be our O-line depth, I could i would trade back up and grab any of the Alabama front 5 entering the draft as well.

3) We got the RB talent, Brown and McCoy, Havilli are all legit talents.  They are under used and improperly used right now.  New coach can fix this.

4) We NEED a safety in the worst way.  A high 2nd rounder can grab us one.  

5) I know most people hate this idea but having Vick back next year at a hopefully much reduced salary if Foles doesnt work out is a legit option.  It really is.  I still believe that given time to actually throw the ball and a balanced offense that also doesnt call for the QB to run between the tackles on designed runs would be fantastic for his career.  Seeing as im not totally sold on the QB's in this years draft.

  We need to do the right thing this year and go heavy Oline,  especially for depth.  This team can win the division next year IF we shore up the oline and find safety talent and have a coach who isnt incompetent.  Also a new OC is going to work wonders for this team.

You lost me at "....Gruden would succeed here...."  NO< NO and Freaking NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Phila.:chip]

biglou22, on 23 November 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

For some reason fans don't see that happening. But the fact is there is an incredibly high percentage chance that the Eagles now become like the other 24 teams in the NFL. Which is basically...............
-suck most years
-then get lucky every once in awhile and actually win 9-10 games
- really get lucky and make the playoffs about once every 5 years
-or get really really lucky and string together 2 or 3 good years.

Since the SB in 2004, the Eagles aren't really far off from that. They haven't sucked most years, but they've basically been a 9-10 win team since the SB. We've only won 10+ games once since the SB, and have only won 10 games twice since then.

[442eagle]

Free Agents haven't worked, Vick is done, Foles is a project, offensive line is offensive, defensive line is who knows and Reid is a lame duck. I see lean seasons ahead.

[vox populi]

The Eagles will never be the Cleveland Browns or Detroit Lions. There may very well be a rebuilding year in 2013, but Philly is still a major market. Major market teams do not stay bad for long.

It's not the Eagles history for going on 40 years. From Vermeil, to Buddy, to even Kotite (who took the team to the playoffs), to Rhodes (two playoffs in four years). The Eagles have reached the playoffs with every coach they've had except Marion Campbell. I suspect the next coach will find success here before too long.

And my gut tells me Lurie is going to hire one of the three veteran coaches out there who might be had with the right situation and circumstance. Either Cowher, Gruden, or long-shot Payton. Any of them will get the Eagles back in contention within two years.

[tetwaroo]

Nah bro, we still a dynasty. A dream-team dynasty.

[blackskimmer]

Caribbean Soul, on 23 November 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

You lost me at "....Gruden would succeed here...."  NO< NO and Freaking NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You do know he won the superbowl with zero talent at QB?  And before you scream at me "he destoryed the team!" crap, look into it, they had no draft picks due to the trade when he got there, and they had massive salary cap issues that prevented him from signing or resigning key talent.

   He also turned around an absolute nightmare of a team in Oakland and led them to play offs what 3 straight times?  

  He has a history of taking a team and despite shortcomings making a decent run with them.  Im not saying he will come in here and win a superbowl in his first year but I do think alot of you are dismissing him too easily.  He is a very talented coach.  Would he be the best option out there?  I dont know.

[biglou22]

Phila.:chip, on 23 November 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

Since the SB in 2004, the Eagles aren't really far off from that. They haven't sucked most years, but they've basically been a 9-10 win team since the SB. We've only won 10+ games once since the SB, and have only won 10 games twice since then.

But here is the thing that I will never understand about our fan base. You make that statement, as do most fans.
But guess what ???
Even though you and many fans don't consider that very good, there are only 3 other NFC teams that have done better then the Eagles from 2005 - 2011.
I think for some reason fans thinks teams win 10 and 11 games every year and get to the playoffs. That is not even close to the case.

Here are the most successful teams in the NFC at winning 10 games or more and getting to the playoffs the most since 2005.
#1 - Giants / won 10 games or more 4x and made the playoffs 5 in those 7 years.
#2 - Packers / won 10 or more games 4x and made the playoffs 4x in those 7 years
#2 - Saints / won 10 or more games 4x and made the playoffs 4x in those 7 years
#4 - Eagles / won 10 or more games 3x (and a 9-6-1 year) and made the playoffs 4x in those 7 years.

So winning 10 games a year and getting to the playoffs they have done better or equal to basically every team in the NFC.
Now if you want to talk about the failures of last year and this year, then yes. Go for it. They are endless.
But from 1999 - 2010, this franchise has been more successful then just about every team in the NFL but basically the Pats, Colts, Steelers, Giants and Packers.
And sadly, as great as that run was, one win separates them from being mentioned with those 5 teams overall.
ONE lousy friggen win that they somehow couldn't manage.

[eephraim]

Baynit, on 23 November 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

This team is still good enough to be a winner.  I dont expect a full on rebuild with a new coach.  It wouldnt suprise me if Mike Vick was back next year.

The Peters and Kelce need to get healthy.  Move Herramans to RG and find a new RT.  The defense needs an overhaul, a new secondary for sure.....

This team is not good enough to win the NCAA Championship game.

Watkins and Kelce are pure dog poop.

Never thought I'd say this but they need an upgrade at WR too.

And at this point I am NOT in favor of bringing Vick back. I don't think he can do the things he used to be able to that could win tough games when the play calling and WR's suck.

[biglou22]

eephraim, on 23 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

This team is not good enough to win the NCAA Championship game.

Watkins and Kelce are pure dog poop.

Never thought I'd say this but they need an upgrade at WR too.

And at this point I am NOT in favor of bringing Vick back. I don't think he can do the things he used to be able to that could win tough games when the play calling and WR's suck.

Easy big guy. There is plenty of talent to start over with the new coaching staff next year.
Yes, if you are under the belief that you need a Pro Bowl player at every position then yes, they need to start over. But reality is 100% of all teams have a starting roster of..........
** a few really good players on each side of the ball.
** a ton of good players
** and a ton of average starters and backups.
And the Eagles have plenty of all the above to start with.

QB - Vick will be gone and yes, this could be a MAJOR issue
RB - McCoy, Brown and Havilli are more then good enough
TE - Celek and Harbor are plenty good. Yes I know what the Pats have. But they are THE ONLY team to have that.
WR - Jackson, Maclin, Avant and Cooper are fine. They do need to add a more reliable #2.
OL - Peters, Herremans, Kelce, Mathis, Watkins are fine. They absolutely need 2 more quality players here.

DE - Cole, Graham, Curry are fine. Thank god the comical wide 9 will be gone. They will need 1 more quality DE.
DT - Cox, Patterson, Landri are fine. They will need 1 more quality DT
LB - Ryans, Kendricks, Jordon, Chaney are fine. They will need to add 2 quality guys
CB - DRC, Boykin, Marsh are fine. They will need to add 2 quality guys here.
S - Allen as a starter is solid. Coleman as a #4 would be fine. They need to add a starter.

Do they need a lot of pieces ??? You bet. But besides QB, every piece should be easily obtainable by the start of next season.

Oh, and they need a friggen punter.

[Lego Mola Ram]

dmor, on 22 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Looks like the perfect storm happened.  This year, we had a witches brew of the tragedy during training camp, the Luries' divorce, Banner's departure, Howie's exposure as a weak judge of talent coupled with his rise in power, and the overall free fall of the team and the head coach.  Plus, we're seeing that there probably isn't a long term answer at quarterback, a weak offensive line, and a defense in shambles.

Unless they strike gold again with a good hire at the head coaching position, I don't see the Eagles climbing out of this for a while.

You fail to mention that Andy Reid's son died three months ago

[dmor]

Lego Mola Ram, on 23 November 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

You fail to mention that Andy Reid's son died three months ago

What do you think I was referring to when I mentioned the tragedy in training camp?

[djbigf]

i don't see how reid's son dying makes a difference.  he was alive when they were 4-8 last year.  reid's son dying didn't cause him to draft badly for 10 straight years or underutilize a top-5 RB.  things didn't just go badly b/c his son died.  the rot has run deep in the roots of this franchise for a long time due to the coach's failure to evaluate talent, choose assistant coaches, and properly call an offensive gameplan.

[dmor]

djbigf, on 23 November 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

i don't see how reid's son dying makes a difference.  he was alive when they were 4-8 last year.  reid's son dying didn't cause him to draft badly for 10 straight years or underutilize a top-5 RB.  things didn't just go badly b/c his son died.  the rot has run deep in the roots of this franchise for a long time due to the coach's failure to evaluate talent, choose assistant coaches, and properly call an offensive gameplan.

Disagree.  For all that Reid hadn't done right over the years, that tragedy only amplified it.

[blackskimmer]

biglou22, on 23 November 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Easy big guy. There is plenty of talent to start over with the new coaching staff next year.
Yes, if you are under the belief that you need a Pro Bowl player at every position then yes, they need to start over. But reality is 100% of all teams have a starting roster of..........
** a few really good players on each side of the ball.
** a ton of good players
** and a ton of average starters and backups.
And the Eagles have plenty of all the above to start with.

QB - Vick will be gone and yes, this could be a MAJOR issue
RB - McCoy, Brown and Havilli are more then good enough
TE - Celek and Harbor are plenty good. Yes I know what the Pats have. But they are THE ONLY team to have that.
WR - Jackson, Maclin, Avant and Cooper are fine. They do need to add a more reliable #2.
OL - Peters, Herremans, Kelce, Mathis, Watkins are fine. They absolutely need 2 more quality players here.

DE - Cole, Graham, Curry are fine. Thank god the comical wide 9 will be gone. They will need 1 more quality DE.
DT - Cox, Patterson, Landri are fine. They will need 1 more quality DT
LB - Ryans, Kendricks, Jordon, Chaney are fine. They will need to add 2 quality guys
CB - DRC, Boykin, Marsh are fine. They will need to add 2 quality guys here.
S - Allen as a starter is solid. Coleman as a #4 would be fine. They need to add a starter.

Do they need a lot of pieces ??? You bet. But besides QB, every piece should be easily obtainable by the start of next season.

Oh, and they need a friggen punter.

TE- Could be a major issue, If Celek doesnt bounce back, and Harbor doesnt see substantial improvement we could be in real trouble here.

WR-Is a issue, im curious to see if Cooper can continue on his performance last game.  If he cant we still need bigger receivers.  All this small speed is good for **** in the redzone.

Oline: NOT FINE.  Peters injuries are starting to mount, Todd is inconsistant at RT, Kelce has alot of trouble with big Nose tackles due to his size, although he is "fine" for now, Watkins just got benced for a guy we found off the street (Scott) Dunlap, Bell, Dallas are all better off on the practice roster or not on the roster at all.  We absolutely need to draft a tackle this year.  There are some stellar olineman coming into this draft and Im hoping we grab at least 2 of them.

DE: I have no idea how we are here. Is Babin worth it in the 5 technique?  Is Cole now seeing regression due to age?  We have no idea about Curry, Graham is good, but is he good enough as a full time starter?  There are questions here, however its the least of our concerns.

DT: Cox is amazing, kids a stud.  The rest of our DT's are decent, holding onto Jenkins might be option.  We are ok here, ditching the wide 9 will help our DT's too.

LB's: Ryans is amazing, Kendricks is your typical rookie with alot of upside, ditching wide 9 will help alot.  Jordan is NOT a starting quality LB, our depth is really questionable here.

CB's: Mixed bag, Boykin is showing promise, DRC is still unsigned, Marsh is a question mark, Nnamdi is too expensive to hold on to.  Could be a real problem here.

S: Allen could be good, however playing next to Coleman is hurting him, I dont think he will ever be anything close to special or even really good.  Safety is a major major concern.  Ditching wide 9 will help a ton here too.


  You never mentioned it but Henery is great so our FG kicker spot is solid, and that isnt a shot its a major plus kids been great this year.

  There is alot of "figureing" out that we need to do, problem is if Reid and Marty are still calling the shots in the last 3-4 games of the season, we wont get the answers we need.  I think that is all changing though.  Seeing Curry getting the nod I dont think came from Reid, I think that came from upstairs.

  They want to see what they have in the kid to determine if guys like Babin are going to stay or if they can be cut.  Andy why not, screw Marty and Andy this season is done, and so are they, now is the time to evaluate the kids and move forward.

[blackskimmer]

djbigf, on 23 November 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

i don't see how reid's son dying makes a difference.  he was alive when they were 4-8 last year.  reid's son dying didn't cause him to draft badly for 10 straight years or underutilize a top-5 RB.  things didn't just go badly b/c his son died.  the rot has run deep in the roots of this franchise for a long time due to the coach's failure to evaluate talent, choose assistant coaches, and properly call an offensive gameplan.

Reid sons death could have impacted his performance this year.  Honestly I have no idea how as a parent you deal with that.  I really dont.  My heart goes out to him for that, super tough to deal with and showed tremendous character and resolve throughout it.  Your also right though in that his trends and faults are more then apparent before the tragedy.

[kilco]

We need to hire somebody who knows how to right a seaking ship. Bill Polian anyone??

[greenblood0118]

biglou22, on 23 November 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

But I sure wish fans would look at the history of the NFL to see just how small the chances are that the next coach will be anything close to Reid.

I'd be happy with someone who knows how to use a damn timeout and can adjust his strategy at least once per decade.

[Irishshuck]

When Peters, Kelce come back healthy (solidify O-line through draft, FA) and we upgrade our safeties we'll be fine. I'm not buying into this doomed for years BS. I've calmed down since my implode this heartless team comment.