40 replies to this topic

[greenpassion]

man i remember hearing this over and over. mainly it started as always with the radio talk show host and our fans not being able to think for themselves followed with it. its just odd hearing how hes now gonna be our savior when everybody wanted him out of town

winston justice too, again the media told us how bad he was when in actuality the man only really had 1 bad game and while he wasnt a great run blocker he was okay and hes a really good pass blocker. now by letting justice go we ended up weakening two positions being we had to put herrimans at tackle

at some point we should understand that this media here in philly is terrible and people should stop listening to them

i remember in this years preseason brian baldinger told us how bad demeco ryans is and he should be benched and kendricks should be our starting mlb. than he told us all year that our only problems on offense was vick and by replacing him it would solve the problems.

so this year the media and fans will run vick and nnamdi out of town and believe me we will regret it

[greenpassion]

man i remember hearing this over and over. mainly it started as always with the radio talk show host and our fans not being able to think for themselves followed with it. its just odd hearing how hes now gonna be our savior when everybody wanted him out of town

winston justice too, again the media told us how bad he was when in actuality the man only really had 1 bad game and while he wasnt a great run blocker he was okay and hes a really good pass blocker. now by letting justice go we ended up weakening two positions being we had to put herrimans at tackle

at some point we should understand that this media here in philly is terrible and people should stop listening to them

i remember in this years preseason brian baldinger told us how bad demeco ryans is and he should be benched and kendricks should be our starting mlb. than he told us all year that our only problems on offense was vick and by replacing him it would solve the problems.

so this year the media and fans will run vick and nnamdi out of town and believe me we will regret it

sorry for the double post

[Krukslonelyball]

You should have been aborted. Stop wasting air and do everyone else a favor.

[greenpassion]

i know the truth hurts when its right up in your face sorry.

[dmor]

Interesting point you make, and in principle I do agree to a large extent.  Most writers and fans when they vent just want to run a coach or player out of town.  No thought as to how to fix the coach or player, or otherwise no thought as to who's gonna replace them once they're run out of town.

[wvjerome]

Fans don't run anyone anywhere. If the Eagles dropped Justice it's because they wanted too. He obviously didn't fit the Mudd system. Media and fans are no different anywhere. This is clearly about management, coaching, and overall poor decision making. If Mike Vick and Nnamdi are sent packing it will have NOTHING TO DO WITH FANS OR THE MEDIA. It will have to do with the fact Nnamdi will be poised to make 15 Million Dollars next season while playing like a 5-6 million dollar player. Mike Vick will be 33 with a whopping 18 million dollars owed to him! The 24^TH ranked passer in football is owed 18 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can assume these players will restructure. Some might. I think Nnamdi will, because the Eagles still owe him guaranteed money, but Vick most likely will just be cut. IT IS PERCISELY THE REASON THEY STRUCTURED HIS CONTRACT THIS WAY. If Vick is gone it will have nothing to do with fans and media, and will have everything to do with his play and his contract. That’s the business of football people.

[skipsharp]

On the other hand, McDougal and L.J. Smith were always " poised for a breakout year". Hard to figure out agendas.

[folesgirl]

They did suck.  People get better, and/or learn the systems.  One game doesn't define someone.

[wvjerome]

Some added information on Nnamdi and DRC. “Former Pro Bowlers Nnamdi Asomugha and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie are ranked 83rd and 94th, respectively, out of 106 qualifying cornerbacks. DRC is the most-penalized defensive player in the NFL.”  This is an article discussing the current Eagles. The stats are generated from Pro Football Focus. These are not fans, have no rooting interest for or against these players. They come to their conclusion by evaluations.
Read more here…. http://bleacherrepor...agles-right-now

[vox populi]

Good Lord!

Quote

When you win, the media and fans can't hurt you. When you lose, the media and fans can't help you.

Simple wisdom from Buddy Ryan. The Philadelphia media does a great job. Some of them even drink the green beverage and overhype the players in the same way that Spadaro does. Others have a long history of healthy skepticism, as they should.

The Eagles have not won a thing for over 50 years. That's a lot of pent up frustration. Any fan who doesn't feel frustrated isn't very connected to the franchise. Good beat writers understand this. And as such, their critiques are fair and warranted.

[EaglesCB37]

greenpassion, on 24 November 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

at some point we should understand that this media here in philly is terrible and people should stop listening to them

If any media/reporters were correct, Tim Tebow would be in the HOF by now.

[Audit2]

greenpassion, on 24 November 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

man i remember hearing this over and over. mainly it started as always with the radio talk show host and our fans not being able to think for themselves followed with it. its just odd hearing how hes now gonna be our savior when everybody wanted him out of town

winston justice too, again the media told us how bad he was when in actuality the man only really had 1 bad game and while he wasnt a great run blocker he was okay and hes a really good pass blocker. now by letting justice go we ended up weakening two positions being we had to put herrimans at tackle

at some point we should understand that this media here in philly is terrible and people should stop listening to them

i remember in this years preseason brian baldinger told us how bad demeco ryans is and he should be benched and kendricks should be our starting mlb. than he told us all year that our only problems on offense was vick and by replacing him it would solve the problems.

so this year the media and fans will run vick and nnamdi out of town and believe me we will regret it

sorry for the double post

Baldy is the biggest idiot I've ever heard.  That"s the problem with most of the Haters on this board, too much talk radio.  Great post.

[evilwaldo]

English is not your first language.

[antiravis]

Sometimes players are run out of town. I think the best example is probably Sheldon Brown. Sure, he wasn't an all-pro but he was definitely a serviceable number 2 corner and he stayed healthy. Since then it's been a revolving door at the corner position and the front office has tried draft picks, free agents and trade acquisitions. None of them have worked and Sheldon still has his starting job in Cleveland. They're pretty unremarkable this year, but last year they were the #2 passing defense in football. Sheldon didn't help himself by getting mouthy (and you could probably say the same thing about Asante) but he would have provided some of the veteran leadership that this defense is sorely lacking because he learned from some of the best in that department: Bobby, Troy and Dawk.

Sometimes, it's just a players time to go. I think Donovan would have fared better as an Eagle than he did in Washington or Minnesota but his time was up. There are definitely times when a player has just over-stayed his welcome and the coaches need to inject a new player for the guys in the locker-room to rally around. It also plays to the idea of accountability. This applies to coaches too. A lot of people think Andy Reid is a good coach but the circumstances in Philadelphia have been difficult. It's not all on him but he will have to go.

Sometimes, a player just stinks. The media isn't brainwashing anyone here. I think most of the guys on the radio or Philly.com are probably 50/50 on Vick but everyone has acknowledged that he hasn't played well because...he hasn't. The fans don't think he has played well enough to stay because they've seen the games. He didn't play well when he had Jason Peters blocking for him last year. You can't have it both ways.

[gibsonplyer]

Anyone saying Peters stunk was an idiot and just focused on his pre-snap penalties and knew absolutely nothing about him before he came here.  (Note he is a better fit for Mudd's scheme than Juan's, also he's a better fit for a team that focuses more on the run that a Reid offense)

Check your history Herremans became the RT because JUSTICE COULDN'T GET HEALTHY LAST YEAR.  Period.  No fan no media BS.  He couldn't get on the field.  Once that happened it made more sense with everyone presumably healthy to keep them where they were last year when they gelled and Justice was too expensive to be a back-up.  Remember he did get a new contract so that blows the whole he got run out of town because of 1 bad game logic.

Baldy's a moron.

If you're going to tell me Vick wasn't the MAIN problem the first couple of games we can stop this conversation now.  As the year went on with Juan being fired and the offensive line suffering one injury after another even more issues crept up as Vick got better but those first couple of game Vick was F'ING UNBELIEVABLY TERRIBLE!  I wanted to believe going into this year but from what we've seen Vick had a short stint of success in 2010.  He sucked in Atlanta before coming here.  He sucked in the 2010 pre-season.  Had a few good games, a couple very good games, and an amazing game in 2010 then he started to fall off.  The miracle at the New Meadowlands shouldn't have been necessary if he had played better for most of the game (not to discount his and the team's performance those last 7 or so minutes but they were terrible for 3/4ths of the game).  He then was exposed against Minnesota and never seemed to recapture that earlier magic.  Ever since those first few games where he was amazing at protecting the ball he's been terrible.

That's not even factoring in his age.  Guess what his best days are behind him.  At this point he's only going to get slower and he's never been the most effective QB.  Its time to start looking for the next QB plain and simple and with his salary going forward it doesn't make sense to keep an aging flawed QB on a team that's rebuilding for what he's set to be making.

Even Nnamdi says he hasn't been performing well.  He looks a step to slow at this point.  Could he be protected more by the scheme/safeties?  Maybe but for what he's getting paid that shouldn't be necessary.  Again you're looking at a player who at his age is only going to get slower and on a rebuilding team he doesn't make sense with his contract.

[Baynit]

Jason Peters did struggle his first season or two here.  Im sure someone will try to prove me wrong with a few stats but he had what seemed like alot of offsides (maybe it was just several offsides in crucial spots) he struggled in pass protection (maybe it was just a few key sacks allowed in crucial spots) and he was nowhere near as dominant in the run game.  Then he put it all together, he became a dominator on screens and sweeps and improved his pass protection.  I still dont think his pass protection is nowhere near his run blocking but whatever last time I said that someone tried to prove me wrong with a bunch of pass protection stats....

Fact is nobody blitzes Mike Vick from his front side.  You blitz him from the back.  Sacks allowed is a flawed stat.  Vick gets sacked by Demarcus Ware who's lined up over Peters but the statistician credits the sack to Mathis because Ware used an inside move and beat both players.

Its alot easier to see Peters can take out two or even three defenders on a sweep...

[mwz1970]

greenpassion, on 24 November 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

man i remember hearing this over and over. mainly it started as always with the radio talk show host and our fans not being able to think for themselves followed with it. its just odd hearing how hes now gonna be our savior when everybody wanted him out of town

winston justice too, again the media told us how bad he was when in actuality the man only really had 1 bad game and while he wasnt a great run blocker he was okay and hes a really good pass blocker. now by letting justice go we ended up weakening two positions being we had to put herrimans at tackle

at some point we should understand that this media here in philly is terrible and people should stop listening to them

i remember in this years preseason brian baldinger told us how bad demeco ryans is and he should be benched and kendricks should be our starting mlb. than he told us all year that our only problems on offense was vick and by replacing him it would solve the problems.

so this year the media and fans will run vick and nnamdi out of town and believe me we will regret it

sorry for the double post

baldinger also rated watkins the best o-line men in the draft. he said "hands down".

[phillygrump]

EaglesCB37, on 24 November 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

If any media/reporters were correct, Tim Tebow would be in the HOF by now.

And Romo would be a 4 time Super Bowl champ.

[antiravis]

EaglesCB37, on 24 November 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

If any media/reporters were correct, Tim Tebow would be in the HOF by now.

I think you're confusing sensationalism with endorsement.

Sometimes, you HAVE to write about something. There has been a ton of talk already about the Tebowication of sports journalism. Almost every sports journalist understood that Tebow was not a legitimate starting quarterback in the NFL. But because he is such a polarizing figure (eliciting adulation or hatred, but regardless, ATTENTION in the biggest sports market in the United States), on-air personalities were instructed to literally mention Tebow or an upcoming story on Tebow as frequently as possible or at least every three minutes.

I definitely think there were more idiot fans out there who said, "He just wins games" or "He's living proof that Jesus watches football" than actual journalists who thought he would win any games. In my opinion, the Tebow story was in no way different from the Michael Vick story in that no one expected Vick to play well in 2010 and he shocked everyone. Shock goes a long way in sports reporting. People love to be surprised and it's more entertaining to watch someone do well when everyone wrote them off than Tom Brady go out and predictably win 10 or 11 games and breeze through the postseason.

[greenpassion]

also people we should be very careful with this game here on monday night, there are a few things to consider.

most of us want reid gone but it wouldnt help us to go out here on monday night and act a fool because then on the other hand most of you are gonna want a good new coach to come in here and clean house which would probably mean a year or two of losing which is a tough thing here in philly so this can definitely effect the decision of a good coach that has other options

so just be careful letting these radio guys getting everybody all hyped up to go out and act a fool

[WR_please]

antiravis, on 24 November 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Sometimes players are run out of town. I think the best example is probably Sheldon Brown. Sure, he wasn't an all-pro but he was definitely a serviceable number 2 corner and he stayed healthy. Since then it's been a revolving door at the corner position and the front office has tried draft picks, free agents and trade acquisitions. None of them have worked and Sheldon still has his starting job in Cleveland. They're pretty unremarkable this year, but last year they were the #2 passing defense in football. Sheldon didn't help himself by getting mouthy (and you could probably say the same thing about Asante) but he would have provided some of the veteran leadership that this defense is sorely lacking because he learned from some of the best in that department: Bobby, Troy and Dawk.

WHAT?!  Are you kidding?  Brown hasn't been good for 6 years!  "Sure he wasn't an All-Pro," what the hell?  He wasn't "solid," he got beat up and down the football field by any WR who had above average speed.  If anything, Brown is an example of a player getting overrated by the media and fans.  He had a few good years at the beginning of his career and was physical so that meant to some people that he was a good player.  He wasn't, not as a starter anyway.  Sure, as a nickel/S player he would've been good but he was a perennial malcontent at the end, which many people forget.

Baynit, on 24 November 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Jason Peters did struggle his first season or two here.

No, he didn't.  He didn't play like he played in 2011 but he certainly didn't struggle.  The constant complaining from fans of his play was maddening. He was due for a false start once a game but he blocked very well.  People are stupid.  Really Fing stupid.

[WR_please]

I agree completely with the idea of this thread.  I don't agree with the talk about Justice and Vick.  I've said it before and I'll say it again:  Justice was a slightly above average pass blocker and next to useless in the run game.  I'm glad he's gone.  Vick can't read a blitz but I will concede that in a run-first system he would have better success than he's having now.  That said, I'll be glad when he's gone.

Peters got hated on because of false starts.  He was a hell of a player before 2011 with the Eagles but fans and media are stupid as hell.  He wasn't the Hall of Fame level monster he was in 2011 but he was still one of the top 3 LTs in football.  

We're talking about the same media and fans who overrate any player who is any good.  Shady McCoy is a perfect example.  Good player, not great.  He has good vision, elite start-stop quickness, and can juke guys out.  He can't pass protect, has no power to his game at all, runs east-west way too much, and he can't make the last guy miss.  He took advantage of bus-sized holes in 2011 to get 10-yard runs but didn't have the power or speed to take them to the house.  He left so many yards on the field.  He's a committee back, not a $9 million per year franchise player.  But hey, let's overrate him because he's the smartest **** on offense.  And Trent Cole.  He never, ever showed franchise DE caliber skills.  He has one move and if you can beat it, he's useless.  No speed, no forced fumbles, and no consistency throughout the season.  He never made any of his teammates better.  

The best players on this team are DeSean Jackson and Fletcher Cox.  DeSean has his issues but he makes his teammates better and is a true difference maker.  Nobody in the NFL has his ability to elude defenders.  Cox gets double teamed consistently (actually doubled, not the Trent Cole phantom double team) and still gets more push than any other D-linemen on this team.  But hey, let's continue loving mediocrity with Shady and Trent.  Go Eagles!

[mayanh8]

Wait... when did everyone hate Jason Peters? That's a new one to me. And the only time anyone ever got on Peters was for his false starts... and wtf has Demeco Ryans done fo us outside the first couple games of the season? He's been invisible.

[mwz1970]

WR_please, on 24 November 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

I agree completely with the idea of this thread.  I don't agree with the talk about Justice and Vick.  I've said it before and I'll say it again:  Justice was a slightly above average pass blocker and next to useless in the run game.  I'm glad he's gone.  Vick can't read a blitz but I will concede that in a run-first system he would have better success than he's having now.  That said, I'll be glad when he's gone.

Peters got hated on because of false starts.  He was a hell of a player before 2011 with the Eagles but fans and media are stupid as hell.  He wasn't the Hall of Fame level monster he was in 2011 but he was still one of the top 3 LTs in football.  

We're talking about the same media and fans who overrate any player who is any good.  Shady McCoy is a perfect example.  Good player, not great.  He has good vision, elite start-stop quickness, and can juke guys out.  He can't pass protect, has no power to his game at all, runs east-west way too much, and he can't make the last guy miss.  He took advantage of bus-sized holes in 2011 to get 10-yard runs but didn't have the power or speed to take them to the house.  He left so many yards on the field.  He's a committee back, not a $9 million per year franchise player.  But hey, let's overrate him because he's the smartest **** on offense.  And Trent Cole.  He never, ever showed franchise DE caliber skills.  He has one move and if you can beat it, he's useless.  No speed, no forced fumbles, and no consistency throughout the season.  He never made any of his teammates better.  

The best players on this team are DeSean Jackson and Fletcher Cox.  DeSean has his issues but he makes his teammates better and is a true difference maker.  Nobody in the NFL has his ability to elude defenders.  Cox gets double teamed consistently (actually doubled, not the Trent Cole phantom double team) and still gets more push than any other D-linemen on this team.  But hey, let's continue loving mediocrity with Shady and Trent.  Go Eagles!

dude, please stfu. mccoy is an elite back. and now your saying cox is better than cole?

why does only allen and ware have more sacks than cole since 2008?

[mwz1970]

cox, in my opinion has been ok. i still haven't seen him dominant a game, let alone a series. your talking like he's the second coming of jerome brown.

[antiravis]

WR_please, on 24 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

WHAT?!  Are you kidding?  Brown hasn't been good for 6 years!  "Sure he wasn't an All-Pro," what the hell?  He wasn't "solid," he got beat up and down the football field by any WR who had above average speed.  If anything, Brown is an example of a player getting overrated by the media and fans.  He had a few good years at the beginning of his career and was physical so that meant to some people that he was a good player.  He wasn't, not as a starter anyway.  Sure, as a nickel/S player he would've been good but he was a perennial malcontent at the end, which many people forget.

Look, I know hindsight is 20/20 but put Brown up against the performances turned in by Asante Samuel, Ellis Hobbs, Nnamdi Asomugha and Dominique Rodgers Cromartie in the years since he left and you'll see what I mean. He was a malcontent because he turned in solid games and was a leader in the locker room and the Eagles snubbed him for Asante and Ellis Hobbs, one of whom was awful and constantly injured and the other was a verified me-first mercenary, which is one of the biggest problems on this team right now. The problem is that every fan sees a guy get burned a few times and they jump on him when they don't know the coverage and think corners are supposed to be stride for stride in man on every play. Every corner in the NFL gets burned now. That's the way the league is built.

I'm not saying he could have solved all of their locker-room problems but at the very least, keeping him and Dawk would have been a way to cultivate character and veteran leadership on this team. Instead, there's been a vacuum for the past three years and no one has stepped up to fill it.

Regardless of that, you are crazy for railing against Trent Cole and Shady McCoy in every thread you can drag it into. Every player on the team gets inflated by the fan-base. That's why they're called fans. Some more so than others. But the bottom line is that for the price we have them at, Cole, McCoy and Desean are good contributors and deserve a starting spot on our roster.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

OP thinks Vick is good and Peters sucks.  Priceless

Him and iluvdaeagles are the village idiots.

[antiravis]

I think, for the most part, the media in Philadelphia is pretty temperate. Everyone has their idiosyncrasies but the guys that write certainly are informed and even most of the guys on the radio understand the full scale of football beyond the city limits.

There are exceptions like Angelo Cataldi and GCobb but it's widely acknowledged and generally understood that those guys are morons.

The one thing that the media does ceaselessly is pander to the fans and let the fans dictate the conversation. It's something I suppose they feel like they have to do.

[WR_please]

mwz1970, on 25 November 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

dude, please stfu. mccoy is an elite back. and now your saying cox is better than cole?

why does only allen and ware have more sacks than cole since 2008?

Dude, no he's not.  He's good, nowhere even close to elite.  Sorry.

And yes, he is better than Cole.  When you will people realize that basic stats don't mean much of anything?  Most of his sacks in those years happened at the beginning of the season.  Most of Cole's time was spent getting pushed behind the QB.  Sorry.  Cox gets constant push upfront against two men and the guys around him, including Cole, can't get the job done.

[WR_please]

antiravis, on 25 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Look, I know hindsight is 20/20 but put Brown up against the performances turned in by Asante Samuel, Ellis Hobbs, Nnamdi Asomugha and Dominique Rodgers Cromartie in the years since he left and you'll see what I mean. He was a malcontent because he turned in solid games and was a leader in the locker room and the Eagles snubbed him for Asante and Ellis Hobbs, one of whom was awful and constantly injured and the other was a verified me-first mercenary, which is one of the biggest problems on this team right now. The problem is that every fan sees a guy get burned a few times and they jump on him when they don't know the coverage and think corners are supposed to be stride for stride in man on every play. Every corner in the NFL gets burned now. That's the way the league is built.

I'm not saying he could have solved all of their locker-room problems but at the very least, keeping him and Dawk would have been a way to cultivate character and veteran leadership on this team. Instead, there's been a vacuum for the past three years and no one has stepped up to fill it.

Regardless of that, you are crazy for railing against Trent Cole and Shady McCoy in every thread you can drag it into. Every player on the team gets inflated by the fan-base. That's why they're called fans. Some more so than others. But the bottom line is that for the price we have them at, Cole, McCoy and Desean are good contributors and deserve a starting spot on our roster.

If Sheldon's ego wasn't as big, they would've kept him around in a CB/S flex role.  He wanted to be a starter and he wanted to get paid.  They snubbed him for Asante because Asante was better.  Prime Sheldon was awesome and exemplified all the things you are talking about.  Sheldon in his last years here and with the Browns is a bad player.  Add being bad with being a malcontent and it was easy to see he was gone.  They should've gone after more team-first guys, I will concede that.

The reason I bring up McCoy and Cole is because it needs to be said.  McCoy is a committee back making $9 million a year being called the next Barry Sanders.  It's beyond crazy.  And Cole has always been overrated.  He wore down every single damn season and was never the player people thought he was.  I remember when Julius Peppers was a free agent and there were people on this board and on the terrible, misleading PFF saying that Trent Cole was a better player.  It's crazy!  He's a starter but you can't not go after an elite pass rusher because you think you have one in Trent Cole.  He's not.  He's the Sheldon Brown of DE's.