36 replies to this topic

[jimmygolin]

The big question is do you agree with that statement? Are we better off now then when he got here? Do we have any leaders on this team? When Andy got here, Dawk, Trot, Vincent, and Duce were all here. In 98 we went 3-13 and then 11-5 in 2000. Do we have enough to make that type of turnaround?

[macgregor]

This team is in worse shape than it was 2 weeks ago. I'll continue to say I think Andy is actively destroying this team in order to protect himself from another coach being able to step in and quickly turning this team around, thus unequivocally proving how bad a coach Reid really is. This is not hard to do if you're a coach that your team respects. All he has to do is inject a few negative sentiments and I assure you he can destroy players rather quickly. The banner at the end of the game said it best: 'This is on you Lurie.' Lurie is the end of the line. The buck stops with him. The only place to go from here is another team.

[CountBlah]

Look at some of the stellar guys Andy inherited when he took over,  look at the dreck a new coach will inherit here.

[TColeFan]

As much as i don't want him... If we drafted Manti, we'd immediately have a leader in the vain of a Dawk.   Huge heart in that kid.

[Eagles3785]

Andy Reid inherited better talent on D in 1999 then a potential new coach will inherit in 2013 BUT by far and i mean BY FAR the skill positions in 2011 blow the 1998 team outta the water

QB - still a toss up pending on Foles
RB's - Duce was good, but McCoy is better then him and Brown looks like he'll be half decent
WR's - We had a retiring Irving Fryar (turned out to by lying) Jeff Graham, Freddie Solomen, and other garbage...Jackson and Maclin (despite their fans critical views)  blow these guys outta the water
TE - Celek is better then Jason Dunn
OL wise we are getting guys back from injury plus we'll sign a FA or 2 , and possibly use a high draft pick on an Olinemen


Bottom line is overall i think a coach in 2013 is working with a better situation then Andy did in 1999

[TColeFan]

Eagles3785, on 28 November 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Andy Reid inherited better talent on D in 1999 then a potential new coach will inherit in 2013 BUT by far and i mean BY FAR the skill positions in 2011 blow the 1998 team outta the water

Bottom line is overall i think a coach in 2013 is working with a better situation then Andy did in 1999

On paper, sure... On offense, sure... But not on Defense.

[Clamdigger]

I'm actually optimistic. If they land a good HC, he actually has some talent to work with. Fletcher Cox, Curry, Graham, Cole, Ryans, Kendricks on defense and Peters, McCoy, Brown, Jackson, Maclin, Celek and Havili on offense. I think bringing in Washburn killed any continuity and leadership that would've carried over from veterans like Cole and Patterson. The OL was actually developing nicely, however it didn't really fit the Eagles offense and of course ended up getting dismantled by injuries.

If they're able to take Luke Joeckel in the draft, move Herremans back to guard, get Peters and Kelce back and keep Mathis at LG, I think this team is going to be a running powerhouse with McCoy/Brown, which will take a lot of pressure off the QB.

[Pegger]

Andy didn't inherit guys like Runyan, McNabb, Westbrook, Simon, Herremans, Cole, Taylor, Brown, Shepperd and Lewis. Those guys were all critical in the success of this franchise.

Should add Andy first brought in Devensive Coordinator Jim Johnson. Now wonder how great would Dawkins, Vincent, Hugh and Trot would have been without JJ?

This is such a joke post. Look at the worst team in the league right now in the Chiefs. Couldn't one way an assortment of Jamaal Charles, Dwayne Bowe, Eric Winston, Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson, Brandon Flowers and Eric Berry is a pretty good group to start with?

Every single team has good players on their roster. It's adding a few complimentary players and making the team play better as a whole.

[vox populi]

How many fans now were fans then? If you were, you had no idea (and by that I truly mean NONE at all) that Dawkins, Trotter, Tra, Duce, Ike Reese, would turn out to be any good because they hadn't yet shown diddly. Except for Tra, who was the only one voted for the all-rookie team in 1998.

Rhodes left Reid with Hugh Douglas and Troy Vincent. Pro Bowlers. But that's it in terms of who you knew was good in January of 1999. You had no idea about anyone else. If you think you did, you're lying now.

[BDAWK_4EVER]

I was just thinking  this the other night. Reid lovers have been crying the past two years "If we get rid of him we'll go back to teh Kotite dayzzz". Well congratulations, we're back and look who the coach is.

[CountBlah]

Eagles3785, on 28 November 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Andy Reid inherited better talent on D in 1999 then a potential new coach will inherit in 2013 BUT by far and i mean BY FAR the skill positions in 2011 blow the 1998 team outta the water

Bottom line is overall i think a coach in 2013 is working with a better situation then Andy did in 1999

Yep, and Andy saw fit to go with the Small/Johnson and Pinskston/Thrash combo for 5 years.   Your point being?

[Pegger]

vox populi, on 28 November 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

How many fans now were fans then? If you were, you had no idea (and by that I truly mean NONE at all) that Dawkins, Trotter, Tra, Duce, Ike Reese, would turn out to be any good because they hadn't yet shown diddly. Except for Tra, who was the only one voted for the all-rookie team in 1998.

Rhodes left Reid with Hugh Douglas and Troy Vincent. Pro Bowlers. But that's it in terms of who you knew was good in January of 1999. You had no idea about anyone else. If you think you did, you're lying now.

Heck, Hugh was even a bit of a question mark. Had some good games while with the Jets, but also couldn't stay on the field. After getting 12.5 sacks for Rhodes he actually got hurt and only was available for 4 games in Reid's first season.

For me I've always liked Huge, but he was a one trick pony. Always coming with the speed rush. When looking at his 10 year career he only had 10+ sacks 4 seasons and he had less than 5 sacks another 4 seasons. I'd take Trent Cole any day of the week and twice on Sunday. He may not be as good of a pass rusher, but he's a lot better against the run.

It's not like Reid got something like Reggie White or Bruce Smith in his prime. He got a fairly one dimensional pass rusher.

As for Dawkins, he developed into a great safety and personally my favorite Eagle all time. People forget when he was drafted he was somewhat of an undersized safety from a so-so ACC team (Clemson). Dawkins probably put on somewhere between 20-30 lbs of muscle before he actually became one fo the leagues best safeties.

[Pegger]

CountBlah, on 28 November 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Yep, and Andy saw fit to go with the Small/Johnson and Pinskston/Thrash combo for 5 years.   Your point being?

You are just wrong there. Look at the specific positions he prioritized in each of those first 5 years:

Year 1
1 - Franchise QB - McNabb
2 - LB - Gardner

Year 2
1 - DL - Simon
2 - WR - Pinkston

Year 3
1 - WR - Mitchell
2 - LB - Caver

Year 4
1 - CB - Shepard
2a - S - Lewis
2b - CB - Brown

Year 5
1 - DE - McDougle
2 - TE - LJ Smith

So, in his first 3 years he spent a 2nd and a 1st on WR trying to upgrade the position. Heck, he even took a pass catching TE with Smith in the second in an attempt to upgrade the receiving weapons. I'll agree that neither of those guys really worked out, but overall you can see in his first five hears he prioritized WR as a spot he wanted to upgrade and attempted to do so. If you are really trashing him over WR he's also the same coach that brought in TO, Curtis and ended up drafting Jackson and Maclin.

[Cappeeler]

I just hope we get a coach that is balanced on offense. We have a decent run game. This team could a good coaches dream with a few tweets. Mike Nolan would be a Philly kinda coach.

[Eagles3785]

CountBlah, on 28 November 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Yep, and Andy saw fit to go with the Small/Johnson and Pinskston/Thrash combo for 5 years.   Your point being?

He tried

the diff between Andy winning a super bowl is his failure to get McNabb a legit #1 WR from 2000-2003

He took a shot with those guys and they ended up as garbage...My point is a new coach doesn't need to get rid of Jackson and Maclin because they are proven play makers...they just need better play calling and a better system

[RPeeteRules]

vox populi, on 28 November 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

How many fans now were fans then? If you were, you had no idea (and by that I truly mean NONE at all) that Dawkins, Trotter, Tra, Duce, Ike Reese, would turn out to be any good because they hadn't yet shown diddly. Except for Tra, who was the only one voted for the all-rookie team in 1998.

Rhodes left Reid with Hugh Douglas and Troy Vincent. Pro Bowlers. But that's it in terms of who you knew was good in January of 1999. You had no idea about anyone else. If you think you did, you're lying now.

Even Douglas and Vincent didn't make the Pro Bowl until Reid was the head coach.  Reid is the one who brought in Johnson, who is one of the big reasons why they were so good on defense.  I wonder how the defense would do next year if they had a DC like Johnson.

[odin8888]

We have better talent on this team.,they are just not playing as a team ... yet

[CountBlah]

Pegger, on 28 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

You are just wrong there. Look at the specific positions he prioritized in each of those first 5 years:

Year 1
1 - Franchise QB - McNabb
2 - LB - Gardner

Year 2
1 - DL - Simon
2 - WR - Pinkston

Year 3
1 - WR - Mitchell
2 - LB - Caver

Year 4
1 - CB - Shepard
2a - S - Lewis
2b - CB - Brown

Year 5
1 - DE - McDougle
2 - TE - LJ Smith

So, in his first 3 years he spent a 2nd and a 1st on WR trying to upgrade the position. Heck, he even took a pass catching TE with Smith in the second in an attempt to upgrade the receiving weapons. I'll agree that neither of those guys really worked out, but overall you can see in his first five hears he prioritized WR as a spot he wanted to upgrade and attempted to do so. If you are really trashing him over WR he's also the same coach that brought in TO, Curtis and ended up drafting Jackson and Maclin.

Yippee!!!   He couldn't draft worth ish thus showing us that he lived off the fruits of the prior administrations labors.     Way to prove a point.  BTW, what did Andy do after seeing the WRs he picked up/put out there were crap?    Oh that's right, he kept them on for years and years.    Good job.

[KzEaglefan86]

Only bitter fools would argue that the team is has less talent now than the one that Reid inherited.  Keep in mind that the team's number one problem this season is along the offensive line, and injuries have completely depleted that unit.

macgregor, on 28 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

This team is in worse shape than it was 2 weeks ago. I'll continue to say I think Andy is actively destroying this team in order to protect himself from another coach being able to step in and quickly turning this team around, thus unequivocally proving how bad a coach Reid really is. This is not hard to do if you're a coach that your team respects. All he has to do is inject a few negative sentiments and I assure you he can destroy players rather quickly. The banner at the end of the game said it best: 'This is on you Lurie.' Lurie is the end of the line. The buck stops with him. The only place to go from here is another team.

And these are the ramblings of the insane right here. I honestly don't know what to make of this comment.

[walkingwindchime]

See, I think part of being a good head coach is delegating duties to others, such as scouting.  He can not be scouting when he is busy running the games and gameplanning etc.  So to me, I place
more of the blame on the scouting department.   Now, I do believe he has the final say, but you have to trust the people around you to do their jobs, so you listen to your scouts, of course you look
at the players, but reallly must rely on the scouts to draft well.

[Netherscourge]

The team is in bad shape for multiple reasons...

1. It's GM knows nothing about football players or talent - and Lurie singed him to a multiple year contract last year
2. There is no stud College QB coming out next year to use a high pick on
3. The team is loaded with undersized and soft players
4. Every single coach, coordinator and assistant will likely be fired and new offensive and defensive systems will have to be installed and taught

We're entering the height of the dark ages folks. Grab a sword and a shield and be ready to slay barbarian hordes for a couple years.

[BillTheButcher]

lesean,desean, peters, mathis, todd, trent cole, graham, curry, cox, ryans, kendrick, nnamdi, boykin, bryce brown, chris polk, maclin(to a lesser degree) a good FB in havili, vick is still here, the team is in a much better spot then wwhere it was found. thread////

[L.E.]

I don't see why anyone is shocked. I said years ago if Lurie doesn't pull the plug on Reid soon he was going to end up leaving the team in the same state he found them and surprise, here we are.

[BillTheButcher]

L.E., on 28 November 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

I don't see why anyone is shocked. I said years ago if Lurie doesn't pull the plug on Reid soon he was going to end up leaving the team in the same state he found them and surprise, here we are.

lesean,desean, peters, mathis, todd, trent cole, graham, curry, cox, ryans, kendrick, nnamdi, boykin, bryce brown, chris polk, maclin(to a lesser degree) a good FB in havili, vick is still here, the team is in a much better spot then wwhere it was found. thread////

[dmor]

jimmygolin, on 28 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

The big question is do you agree with that statement? Are we better off now then when he got here? Do we have any leaders on this team? When Andy got here, Dawk, Trot, Vincent, and Duce were all here. In 98 we went 3-13 and then 11-5 in 2000. Do we have enough to make that type of turnaround?

I think we're in worse shape.  Don't get me wrong, there is some talent on the roster.  But there are gaping holes - the biggest of which is at quarterback.  For much of Reid's tenure, the Eagles have had good production from their QB's, even if they weren't always clutch.  Now, who's out there?

And I think the F.O. is in worse shape too.  It's too bad the team couldn't work it out with Modrak.  I think he and Reid could have made a great tandem.  Howie's sharp with the cap and with contracts, but his not a personnel guy - let him move up and down the draft board, but someone who knows what they're doing needs to be making the picks.

I didn't like Banner - but that's why he was a good team president.  You need one guy on the team who keeps everybody on edge.  His absence has hurt the team - looking back, maybe Joe did keep Andy and the players in check to a certain degree.

And how's the scouting department?  Seems to me that would need to be upgraded as well.

Yeah, this team's in worse shape.  Overall, since Vermeil was hired in 76, the Eagles have had their ups and downs.  More ups from my vantage point.  But two whiffs at a chance to win it all post-merger and the fan base is frustrated to no end.  From where things stand now, looks like this franchise is headed toward a losing cycle unless a new man can turn things around.

Tough challenge for the next HC.

[BillTheButcher]

dmor, on 28 November 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

I think we're in worse shape.  Don't get me wrong, there is some talent on the roster.  But there are gaping holes - the biggest of which is at quarterback.  For much of Reid's tenure, the Eagles have had good production from their QB's, even if they weren't always clutch.  Now, who's out there?

And I think the F.O. is in worse shape too.  It's too bad the team couldn't work it out with Modrak.  I think he and Reid could have made a great tandem.  Howie's sharp with the cap and with contracts, but his not a personnel guy - let him move up and down the draft board, but someone who knows what they're doing needs to be making the picks.

I didn't like Banner - but that's why he was a good team president.  You need one guy on the team who keeps everybody on edge.  His absence has hurt the team - looking back, maybe Joe did keep Andy in check to a certain degree.

And how's the scouting department?  Seems to me that would need to be upgraded as well.

Yeah, this team's in worse shape.  Overall, since Vermeil was hired in 76, the Eagles have had their ups and downs.  More ups from my vantage point.  But two whiffs at a chance to win it all post-merger and the fan base is frustrated to no end.  From where things stand now, looks like this franchise is headed toward a losing cycle unless a new man can turn things around.

Tough challenge for the next HC.

who was our QB before reid got here lol.. i swear some of yall got butthole lips with all the talking out yalls arses

[ferrisbueller84]

TColeFan, on 28 November 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

As much as i don't want him... If we drafted Manti, we'd immediately have a leader in the vain of a Dawk.   Huge heart in that kid.

no

[biglou22]

CountBlah, on 28 November 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

Look at some of the stellar guys Andy inherited when he took over,  look at the dreck a new coach will inherit here.

Here is what Reid inherited in 1999.

H.Thomas - had 1 good year with the Eagles after Reid got here and then 4 below average seasons. So he was basically not much help.
H.Douglas - gave the Eagles 3 really good years in 2000, 2001 and 2002 and then was done.
J.Trotter - gave the Eagles 3 really good years at the beginning of Reids tenure and then was gone. 1999, 2000 and 2001.
T.Vincent - was gone after the 2003 season
B.Taylor - got hurt in 2002 and then was gone after that year.
B.Dawkins - He was actually the only guy that Reid inherited that stayed here long term and was productive the entire time.
So yes, Reid was left some decent defensive players. But for the most part they were done by 2002 or sooner.

Reid certainly didn't come in with the talent that the new coach will be coming in with. Hate or love some of these guys, the fact is there will be plenty of talent for the new coach to work with.

McCoy
Brown
Celek
jackson
Maclin
Peters
Herremans
Kelce
Mathis
Graham
Cole
Curry
Cox
Patterson
Kendricks
Ryans
DRC
Boykin
Allen

[BillTheButcher]

ferrisbueller84, on 28 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

no

Yes. but i wouldnt mention dawks name with anyone, i would just said te'o is a leader.

[macgregor]

This team is in worse shape than when this thread was started.