55 replies to this topic

[NOTW]

Rodney_Zero, on 29 November 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

You forgot Reid bringing in Emmons, and signing Barber, and Drafting Caver (OLB) who was graded a 1 0r 2 pick and was very big, as for "undersized", how big where Tampa's DL and LB's from Dungy/Kiffin to Gruden/Kiffin, when they where in the top on D fro 9 straight years? Why, they where in a scheme that fit their abilities, where as JJ's scheme was night and day, JJ wanted fastballs on the DL, yet wanted to blitz, Gocong was his pick, big as you say, lousy SSLB, too stiff and slow to cover LB's. After Rivera, Brasher and Frazier left JJ's D fell apart, and he was as much as the problem as Reid because he was aloud to pick players in the draft or FA.

The point here isn't about who Reid brought in, but that Rhodes was not as bad as some think.  My point was that Reid inherited some key veterans from Rhodes that were the core components of his successful years.  Reid also got Runyan, McNabb sure add Emmons to the list, etc.

[DaveSpadaro]

These last two seasons have been chaotic here, no question about it. Judge it by wins and losses and there is no question that the direction has changed 180 degrees. I don't think Andy has done a good job this year. The team is 3-8. He would agree that he hasn't done a good job.

[dnabbrules]

DaveSpadaro, on 30 November 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

These last two seasons have been chaotic here, no question about it. Judge it by wins and losses and there is no question that the direction has changed 180 degrees. I don't think Andy has done a good job this year. The team is 3-8. He would agree that he hasn't done a good job.

So is he held accountable like all other Head Coaches in Football or other sports? Cuz coaches don't last 14 years without a Championship and especially since 2004 this over rated coach is mediocre at best.  So will he be back or will the owner FINALLY hold him accountable and FIRE HIM?

[Schlob]

Runtherock, on 28 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

You give him zero credit and make his time as head coach sound like he was the second coming of Mike McCormick. Extremely unfair of you and not accurate.

Rhodes coached here four years and was 10 and 6 two of those years. Made the playoffs two years and won a wild card game. He won Coach of the Year. Further, he drafted multiple Pro Bowlers and very solid players, the players who became the backbone of Reid's salad days. Year three 6-9-1, last year 3-13.
Two bad years but two good years as well, and personnel moves, Jon Harris notwithstanding, that were very very good.

This franchise has had few men named Coach of the Year, few winning seasons relatively speaking, few playoff appearances in its history. Surely you can use another coach as an example of coaching ineptitude other than Ray Rhodes. How about Eddie Kayatt? I have plenty examples if you need them.

Horse Dung, he was 3-13 was that with all those supposed great players you claim made Ried great. I get so sick of Revisonist history and that is all this is. With all those great players why was Rhodes 3-13!?!?!?!?

NOTW, on 30 November 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

The point here isn't about who Reid brought in, but that Rhodes was not as bad as some think.  My point was that Reid inherited some key veterans from Rhodes that were the core components of his successful years.  Reid also got Runyan, McNabb sure add Emmons to the list, etc.

Sorry but the point the original OP is trying to make is that Reid has not done a damn thing here and Reid was ONLY successful because the players Rhodes got for him. Rhodes was a mediocre coach, plain and simple.

[NOTW]

Reid no doubt had a great run in his earlier years, made sound decisions in coaching hires and brought in some quality guys, brought a culture of winning and even discipline in earlier years.

There is talent on this team right now.  They are 3-8.  If a new coach takes the core of players Reid has right now, adds to them and builds them into a winner we could have the same discussion.  The players Reid has now could contribute to success in a year or two and would you ask "why did those great players only go X-X in 2012?"

[mjkvol]

NOTW, on 30 November 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

There is talent on this team right now.  They are 3-8.  If a new coach takes the core of players Reid has right now, adds to them and builds them into a winner we could have the same discussion.  

Sorry, but I disagree completely.      Who, aside from McCoy, Cox, Peters (if healthy), the kicker, and maybe Kendricks is a stone keeper?      Part of the problem is how incredibly overrated this team was from a talent standpoint, probably because of the expectation that big name FA's would play at their career best level.

The job moving forward is to shed the dreck on this roster as quickly as possible, create competition at every position, find the next franchise QB, and have about 2-3 solid drafts consecutively.      The culture has to change before the results can be expected to.

This isn't a quick fix situation, and if it's treated as such, we are in for a stretch of mediocrity that will rival anything we've ever seen here.

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 30 November 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorry, but I disagree completely.   Who, aside from McCoy, Cox, Peters (if healthy), the kicker, and maybe Kendricks is a stone keeper?   Part of the problem is how incredibly overrated this team was from a talent standpoint, probably because of the expectation that big name FA's would play at their career best level.

The job moving forward is to shed the dreck on this roster as quickly as possible, create competition at every position, find the next franchise QB, and have about 2-3 solid drafts consecutively.   The culture has to change before the results can be expected to.

This isn't a quick fix situation, and if it's treated as such, we are in for a stretch of mediocrity that will rival anything we've ever seen here.

I agree with your thesis completely but I would add that Ryans is legit and I am optimistic that Kelce, Brown, Boykin, Curry, and B Graham (yes, I went there),  may all develop into solid NFL players. Hope they can turn it around before this losing culture permeates the young guys.

[Runtherock]

Schlob, on 30 November 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

Sorry but the point the original OP is trying to make is that Reid has not done a damn thing here and Reid was ONLY successful because the players Rhodes got for him. Rhodes was a mediocre coach, plain and simple.

My point is what I wrote, not what you choose to interpret.

[Rodney_Zero]

PoconoDon, on 29 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Caver was a bust.

So was Aaron Curry, Curry can't miss top 5 pick, Caver was a 2nd rd pick, picked where he was suppose to go, he just lazy and not bright

NOTW, on 30 November 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

.  Reid inherited some key veterans from Rhodes that were the core components of his successful years. ,.

Sounds like Bellicheck, since he lost all of Carrols & Parcells great players on defense what has he done?, nothing, he won his last SB with that core, oh yeah he drafted Wolfork and brought in Harrison, for a great defensive mind his drafts have given him nothing on D

A lot of coaches "inherit" other HC's talent, like Tomlin, Marty in SD, and Dungy in Tampa

Ok bring ray Rhodes back, hell hire Ray Handley too

[mjkvol]

Rodney_Zero, on 30 November 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Sounds like Bellicheck, since he lost all of Carrols & Parcells great players on defense what has he done?, nothing, he won his last SB with that core, oh yeah he drafted Wolfork and brought in Harrison, for a great defensive mind his drafts have given him nothing on D

You're a piece of work, Rodney. Trash a 3-time Super Bowl winner, and defend this mediocre bum, who is leaving our team in an absolute shambles.

Boy, it must be hell being a Pats fan, huh?  

[mjkvol]

CT Eagle, on 30 November 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

I agree with your thesis completely but I would add that Ryans is legit and I am optimistic that Kelce, Brown, Boykin, Curry, and B Graham (yes, I went there),  may all develop into solid NFL players. Hope they can turn it around before this losing culture permeates the young guys.

Agreed, possibly even with regard to (gulp) Graham.

[Iggles]

Rodney_Zero, on 29 November 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

You forgot Reid bringing in Emmons, and signing Barber, and Drafting Caver (OLB) who was graded a 1 0r 2 pick and was very big, as for "undersized", how big where Tampa's DL and LB's from Dungy/Kiffin to Gruden/Kiffin, when they where in the top on D fro 9 straight years? Why, they where in a scheme that fit their abilities, where as JJ's scheme was night and day, JJ wanted fastballs on the DL, yet wanted to blitz, Gocong was his pick, big as you say, lousy SSLB, too stiff and slow to cover LB's. After Rivera, Brasher and Frazier left JJ's D fell apart, and he was as much as the problem as Reid because he was aloud to pick players in the draft or FA.

Tom Modrak traded with his old team  (Steelers)  for Carlos Emmons.  It was the best NFL trade for LB Andy Reid NEVER made.   Yet Tom Modrak was fired a year later.  Modrak saw Reid's incompetence with a game against the Bills in 1999.  Modrak saw Reids lack of clock knowledge before halftime.  Tom Modrak traded for the best Eagles LB since Reid drafted Kendricks.   That is *****' pathetic.  Tom Modrak was a proper GM!!!  Lurie blew it up within a year!


If Lurie took the proper fork in the road, the Eagles would have multiple SB's today.  Modrak was a proper GM with experience under the Steelers.

[PoconoDon]

I can't help it...

Top Shelf GM or bust..skip...
Top Shelf GM or bust..skip...
Top Shelf GM or bust..skip...

Top Shelf GM or bust!!!

[Runtherock]

Iggles, on 01 December 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Tom Modrak traded with his old team  (Steelers)  for Carlos Emmons.  It was the best NFL trade for LB Andy Reid NEVER made.   Yet Tom Modrak was fired a year later.  Modrak saw Reid's incompetence with a game against the Bills in 1999.  Modrak saw Reids lack of clock knowledge before halftime.  Tom Modrak traded for the best Eagles LB since Reid drafted Kendricks.   That is *****' pathetic.  Tom Modrak was a proper GM!!!  Lurie blew it up within a year!


If Lurie took the proper fork in the road, the Eagles would have multiple SB's today.  Modrak was a proper GM with experience under the Steelers.

Read a really interesting blib by one of the local beat boys recently. He said it was rumored that when Jim Haslett interviewed for the head coaching job he came in with a bit of an attitude about Lurie and Banner, basically to the effect that he considered them unqualified to be dabbling in football operations and that if he took the job they'd  have to butt the hell out. At the time Haslett was the D coordinator for Pittsburgh, Modrak came to the Eagles from the Steelers where he was the chief scout. Lurie and Banner moved on from Haslett and then, according to this reported rumor, determined that Modrak was the source of the poor opinion Haslett had of them. Modrak was then gone relatively soon thereafter. I always read his leaving was part of a Reid power grab, and I still believe that was largely the case, but this adds more to the story.

[birdsfan15]

DaveSpadaro, on 30 November 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

These last two seasons have been chaotic here, no question about it. Judge it by wins and losses and there is no question that the direction has changed 180 degrees. I don't think Andy has done a good job this year. The team is 3-8. He would agree that he hasn't done a good job.

2005 and 2007 were pretty chaotic, too. In fact, save for two miracle runs, 2005-2012 could be considered chaotic.

[djbigf]

one thing ray rhodes did during his last season was stand up to the criticism.  callers would routinely rip him on his radio show and he took it like a man.  conversely, andy "ministry of information" reid has NEVER EVER taken a live call on his radio show - all his callers are pre-recorded and pre-screened.  i never liked him from the beginning for this very reason.

[ShakeThatMonkey]

Iggles, on 01 December 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Tom Modrak traded with his old team  (Steelers)  for Carlos Emmons.  It was the best NFL trade for LB Andy Reid NEVER made.   Yet Tom Modrak was fired a year later.  Modrak saw Reid's incompetence with a game against the Bills in 1999.  Modrak saw Reids lack of clock knowledge before halftime.  Tom Modrak traded for the best Eagles LB since Reid drafted Kendricks.   That is *****' pathetic.  Tom Modrak was a proper GM!!!  Lurie blew it up within a year!


If Lurie took the proper fork in the road, the Eagles would have multiple SB's today.  Modrak was a proper GM with experience under the Steelers.

and don't forget Marc Ross with the Giants. I don't believe he was around during the late 90s but he was instrumental in the front office during the early 2000s.

It's no coincidence that the Giants has done pretty well.

If I were Lurie, i would do everything to get Marc Ross back here

PoconoDon, on 01 December 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

I can't help it...

Top Shelf GM or bust..skip...
Top Shelf GM or bust..skip...
Top Shelf GM or bust..skip...

Top Shelf GM or bust!!!

Marc Ross is the answer

[Iggles]

ShakeThatMonkey, on 01 December 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

and don't forget Marc Ross with the Giants. I don't believe he was around during the late 90s but he was instrumental in the front office during the early 2000s.

It's no coincidence that the Giants has done pretty well.

If I were Lurie, i would do everything to get Marc Ross back here

Marc Ross is the answer

Dear Jeff Lurie,

When you eventually fire Andy Reid after this five weeks of hell, your job is not finished.   You need to hire a man equal to the Phillies' Pat Gillick, who was hired in 2006.   You had that man with Tom Modrak, but your younger ego burned that bridge.  Had you stayed with Tom Modrak, I think the Eagles would've won at least one Superbowl.  Why did you trust years and years of bad drafting of Andy Reid vs. two years under Ray Rhodes??  Reid should've been fired after the 2009 season.   We as Eagle fans have WASTED days of our lives over what I felt in 1993, you have become the new NORMAN BRAMAN!

[Iggles]

The Eagles could've been the 1999 St. Louis Rams, if they allowed D Vermeil to complete his job from 1976-1982.   How does an owner go from not allowing a proven head caoch to make his moves into allowing Andy Reid to run the entire franchise!?!?!?   If Jeff Lurie hired D Vermeil instead of Ray Rhodes, the Eagles have one SB championship!!

[SNOORDA]

AR has had some really bad drafts. He has taken the eagles into the season with glaring weakness's to many times. Poor game day coach. The best thing AR ever did was target and land JJ.

[M.C.]

Iggles, on 01 December 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Tom Modrak traded with his old team  (Steelers)  for Carlos Emmons.  It was the best NFL trade for LB Andy Reid NEVER made.   Yet Tom Modrak was fired a year later.  Modrak saw Reid's incompetence with a game against the Bills in 1999.  Modrak saw Reids lack of clock knowledge before halftime.  Tom Modrak traded for the best Eagles LB since Reid drafted Kendricks.   That is *****' pathetic.  Tom Modrak was a proper GM!!!  Lurie blew it up within a year!


If Lurie took the proper fork in the road, the Eagles would have multiple SB's today.  Modrak was a proper GM with experience under the Steelers.

Emmons was not traded, he was signed as a free agent by the Eagles. Modrak also drafted Freddie Mitchell over Reggie Wayne among other poor draft picks and ran the Bills to the ground for a decade after his stint with the Eagles.

[Runtherock]

M.C., on 02 December 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Emmons was not traded, he was signed as a free agent by the Eagles. Modrak also drafted Freddie Mitchell over Reggie Wayne among other poor draft picks and ran the Bills to the ground for a decade after his stint with the Eagles.

If I remember correctly Fredex was a Reid pick all the way. Modrak may have liked him too, I don't know, but Reid loved him and even wined and dined him personally before making the pick.

[Rome]

If Reid isn't canned I'm selling my SBL's and walking away from this team for good.  I suspect I'm not the only one.  After over 50 years of failure (and yes, that's what it is called when you don't win a championship no matter how many wins you might enjoy otherwise) I refuse to take another year of Reid.  It's just not going to happen.

[mjkvol]

Rome, on 02 December 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

If Reid isn't canned I'm selling my SBL's and walking away from this team for good.  I suspect I'm not the only one.  After over 50 years of failure (and yes, that's what it is called when you don't win a championship no matter how many wins you might enjoy otherwise) I refuse to take another year of Reid.  It's just not going to happen.

Said it a million (give or take) times, but the end should have been after 2007 - that was when he had sent very clear notice that he would never change a single thing in his approach. An approach, a lot of us suspected by then, was not one conducive to winning championships, but just piling up regular season wins and making the playoffs most years.      Even in that department, he had become suspect.

We'd be five years removed from Reid, and who knows what might have been achieved here in that time.    We'd have no less rings, that's for sure.

[PoconoDon]

ShakeThatMonkey, on 01 December 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

and don't forget Marc Ross with the Giants. I don't believe he was around during the late 90s but he was instrumental in the front office during the early 2000s.

It's no coincidence that the Giants has done pretty well.

If I were Lurie, i would do everything to get Marc Ross back here

Marc Ross is the answer

Maybe........maybe not, but any way you slice it, there are options other than Roseman, and if he would consider a return to Philly, Ross should at least get an interview.

[ShakeThatMonkey]

PoconoDon, on 02 December 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Maybe........maybe not, but any way you slice it, there are options other than Roseman, and if he would consider a return to Philly, Ross should at least get an interview.

agreed, good post