157 replies to this topic

[wvjerome]

1) Hating: This is a common word used by most Vick apologists who claim that anyone who may have something negative to say about Vick are “just hating.” The problem is most of them hate on everyone and everything. They hate on the coach, other members of the team, officials, media, other fans, and just about everything else. It's always the other guys fault. They are in essence the biggest haters of them all.

2) Slant Stat Users: Most Vick apologists are very aware of the positive stats related to Vick. They conveniently ignore any negative yet still viable stat related to Mike. They tend to try and make comparisons with Vick with other players pointing the weaknesses of that particular player while ignoring or disregarding any negative or weaknesses in Vick’s game or stats.

3) Denial: Many of them are unwilling to accept certain truths. I am not exactly sure why, but for some reason they seem to try and hold onto a reality that does not exist when it comes to this player. Perhaps it has something to do with the misconception that Vick is always unjustifiably criticized forcing them to become overly defensive about him.

4) Loyalty: Mostly to the player and not the team. Many of them spend a large amount of time defending this player and at the same time criticizing the team, coaching staff, fan base, and front office. They pin all failures on everyone connected to the organization except this player. They tend put the interest of Mike Vick over the interest of the team.

5) Ready: As in ready to jump ship once Vick leaves. I know most will deny they would do this, but the fact remains most apologist blame several others in the organization for the failures of the team and not Vick. Looking at Vick as part of the solution and not part of the problems leads to a problem. How can apologists support a team who got rid of the solution knowing that they believe so many of the problems remain? Certainly this trait is more of an assumption than it is a fact; however, there are some who have already shown a willingness to go this far. Time will tell if the apologist will follow down this path.

[terilyns]

That's 2

[iluvdaeagles]

another vick thread

much needed

[Phila.:chip]

We need a sticky thread for all these Vick threads, or how about a Vick vs Foles thread. The Mods have to get tired of seeing thread after thread about Vick.

[stang8118]

Most Vick apologist's tend to focus on 6-7 key games only during his entire 10+ year career, and toss out the rest.

[MR-CYN]

A succinct summation of the typical VDS personality. (vick derangement syndrome)

[Ipspots]

OP is spot on with the Vick Supporters.

[terilyns]

Ipspots, on 29 November 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

OP is spot on with the Vick Supporters.

Says #1

[Ipspots]

terilyns, on 29 November 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Says #1

Says me. Vick supporters think he can magically turn into something he's not, a pocket passer. His legs were what set him apart, and he can no longer out run De's or LB's so he in essence sets you back.

Vick would be best served as a B/U to go in and improvise if the Starting QB gets hurt during the game.But no one will want to build a team around him.

You will see I am right. Time will prove me correct.  Sadly some fans are blinded by something, not sure what it is, buts some fans cant see the forest through the trees

[AceofSpades]

What people don't realize is that the same things that we're seeing now, are the exact same things we saw at the end of the McNabb era.

Threads popping up left & right on both sides of the argument. Those that couldn't stand McNabb one way or another, those that felt we should keep McNabb. Same thing here, people that can't stand Vick (based on the on field performance) and those that don't wanna let go.

Then there are the logical fans in the middle. Those among us that like Vick but have accepted that the time to move on has come. It was the same thing before McNabb was traded.

[Solomon]

Truer words have not be spoken.

[Solomon]

AceofSpades, on 29 November 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

What people don't realize is that the same things that we're seeing now, are the exact same things we saw at the end of the McNabb era.

Threads popping up left & right on both sides of the argument. Those that couldn't stand McNabb one way or another, those that felt we should keep McNabb. Same thing here, people that can't stand Vick (based on the on field performance) and those that don't wanna let go.

Then there are the logical fans in the middle. Those among us that like Vick but have accepted that the time to move on has come. It was the same thing before McNabb was traded.

Exactly. It's the same thing, I understood it with McNabb because he did some great things here. Vick hasn't done anything yet the Vick fans are just as ravenous. However, I expect most of these Vick fans to head out once he's cut.

[we_gotta_believe]

AceofSpades, on 29 November 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

What people don't realize is that the same things that we're seeing now, are the exact same things we saw at the end of the McNabb era.

Threads popping up left & right on both sides of the argument. Those that couldn't stand McNabb one way or another, those that felt we should keep McNabb. Same thing here, people that can't stand Vick (based on the on field performance) and those that don't wanna let go.

Then there are the logical fans in the middle. Those among us that like Vick but have accepted that the time to move on has come. It was the same thing before McNabb was traded.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Eagles12RC]

I have a question for the panel... After enduring all this failure and 0 super bowls in the history of the Eagles, Are you ready for a full rebuild with this team again?  I could only wish Peyton Manning injury happened this year and the Eagles made a push for him this off season and made us an instant super bowl contender but its not happening.  Vick gives us a great chance to be a contender... We need a O-line to protect him to see what he could really do.  Im sorry but when u have literally .02 seconds to make a decision with the ball and a D lineman in your face, Im sorry all the blame cannot be placed on him.  Yes, he needs to make better decisions, protect the ball better, and read the blitz better but the biggest failure for him this year is that O-line.  Obviously the guy who posted this has a negative agenda against Vick and his supporters. I do agree with the guy who posted down the middle, rationale fans because he made me sit back and think about it.  I say give it 1 more year, then if it doesn't work out IMPLODE... Foles is not the answer people!!!!

[Ipspots]

Yes we should have started a full rebuild 6 or 7 years earlier.....    we gave it TOO many years already. It already imploded. I cant believe you cant see the implosion before your very eyes.

[AceofSpades]

Solomon, on 29 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Exactly. It's the same thing, I understood it with McNabb because he did some great things here. Vick hasn't done anything yet the Vick fans are just as ravenous. However, I expect most of these Vick fans to head out once he's cut.

It's like people are clinging to 2010. Yeah it was a great season for him but that was 2 years ago. It shouldn't go unnoticed that his best season as a QB came with Juan Castillo as the OL coach and he's gone downhill since.

[AceofSpades]

Eagles12RC, on 29 November 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

I have a question for the panel... After enduring all this failure and 0 super bowls in the history of the Eagles, Are you ready for a full rebuild with this team again?  I could only wish Peyton Manning injury happened this year and the Eagles made a push for him this off season and made us an instant super bowl contender but its not happening.  Vick gives us a great chance to be a contender... We need a O-line to protect him to see what he could really do.  Im sorry but when u have literally .02 seconds to make a decision with the ball and a D lineman in your face, Im sorry all the blame cannot be placed on him.  Yes, he needs to make better decisions, protect the ball better, and read the blitz better but the biggest failure for him this year is that O-line.  Obviously the guy who posted this has a negative agenda against Vick and his supporters. I do agree with the guy who posted down the middle, rationale fans because he made me sit back and think about it.  I say give it 1 more year, then if it doesn't work out IMPLODE... Foles is not the answer people!!!!

I do agree that a full rebuild is needed because that's something the Eagles haven't had to go through since the end of the Ray Rhodes era. The Eagles have spent the years since their Super Bowl appearance trying to retool as opposed to rebuild. 2010 was supposed to be the rebuilding year with Kolb but when Vick came on the Eagles once again looked at it as a time to retool. Every team has to rebuild but the problem was Reid never looked at it that way. He looked at teams like the Patriots, Ravens, Steelers and some others that install the "next man up" philosophy where no matter who they lose (players, coaches, executives, etc.) somebody else steps up and fills that role. The problem is the Eagles didn't have the people to carry that out.

I'm honestly not convinced that Foles isn't the answer or can't be the answer. At this point we haven't seen enough. 2.5 games is not enough of a sample to say whether or not somebody can be the guy going forward. The issue is there aren't any surefire answers at QB in this draft. The best thing to do since there's no guaranteed upgrades is to go with Foles & Trent Edwards, see what happens then address the QB situation for 2014. There's really nothing to lose since it'd be rebuilding mode anyway. You can't take a QB for the sake of taking one because then you'd end up like the Jaguars & Titans when they took Gabbert and Locker in 2011. Neither QB looks like they can be the guy to build those teams around and they're scratching their heads to see what they can do.

[Eagles12RC]

Ipspots, on 29 November 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Yes we should have started a full rebuild 6 or 7 years earlier..... we gave it TOO many years already. It already imploded. I cant believe you cant see the implosion before your very eyes.

Obviously I seen the failures of this season like everyone else. When I say implode, I mean the whole roster. If you have a O-line and give some protection to Vick he will play better. Im just saying because Im sorry this season will be the next 3-5 years for the Eagles if we start to rebuild again. Im to the point where I want impact and winning. I think Vick can do it.  Foles is a bum sorry to say, the best he'll ever be is a game manager.  At first I had high hopes and was excited, now after almost every other throw is a pick, Im severly disappointed in him.  Vick covered alot of holes in there when he was playing and kept us in almost every game even though we lost a majority of them as a whole team.

[rstarter]

As for the QB position moving forward, I feel like we're approaching it from the wrong angle. We say that it's time to move on from Vick, much like we did when we moved away from McNabb, but the situation then was definitely not the same. We had Kolb who most of us felt had done enough to be our future behind center, and Mike Vick. We certainly don't have the same luxury now though: in Foles we have a rookie who isn't there yet, and we have Trent Edwards. Our eagerness to reboot, and @ the same time dump Vick without providing a credible solution to the QB problem is really no different to a skydiver so excited to make the jump that they leave without a parachute. My opinion has and will always be to do what is in the best interest of the team giving a set of circumstances. If Foles proves by the end of the season to have the mettle to be an alternative to Vick, or a FA better than our QBs comes over, then I'm good; in fact we could trade him if the situation arises. But let's not kid ourselves with this "anyone but Vick".

[Ipspots]

Eagles12RC, on 29 November 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Obviously I seen the failures of this season like everyone else. When I say implode, I mean the whole roster. If you have a O-line and give some protection to Vick he will play better. Im just saying because Im sorry this season will be the next 3-5 years for the Eagles if we start to rebuild again. Im to the point where I want impact and winning. I think Vick can do it.  Foles is a bum sorry to say, the best he'll ever be is a game manager.  At first I had high hopes and was excited, now after almost every other throw is a pick, Im severly disappointed in him.  Vick covered alot of holes in there when he was playing and kept us in almost every game even though we lost a majority of them as a whole team.

You are the type of fan who is happy with 9 wins each year, as long as it's better than .500 your happy.

Not me, I'd rather have two seasons of below .500 if the third season resullted ina  SB win.   Meaning I am ready and hopeful that this team gets the make over this season. It needs it. We have had 14 years of mediocrity, and I am ready to take 2 steps back in order to take 4 forward.

If Vick and AR stay, you will get more of the same ol same ol we've been getting. I strive for better than that, and I know what that means, so next year when we are 5-11 BUT with a new HC, and a new system and a new QB heading trending in an upward direction, I will be much happier than if we fininsed 8-8 and status quo next year.

[BDAWK_4EVER]

The words "hate" "hater" and "hating" in relation to anyone who doesn't agree with your views need to go on that overused words list. For the many of you who use it in that sense, this is how stupid you sound...

"I think bananas are better than strawberries."
"Hater!!!"

[JonnyEagles69]

BDAWK_4EVER, on 29 November 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

The words "hate" "hater" and "hating" in relation to anyone who doesn't agree with your views need to go on that overused words list. For the many of you who use it in that sense, this is how stupid you sound...

"I think bananas are better than strawberries."
"Hater!!!"

  

[Eagles12RC]

rstarter, on 29 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

As for the QB position moving forward, I feel like we're approaching it from the wrong angle. We say that it's time to move on from Vick, much like we did when we moved away from McNabb, but the situation then was definitely not the same. We had Kolb who most of us felt had done enough to be our future behind center, and Mike Vick. We certainly don't have the same luxury now though: in Foles we have a rookie who isn't there yet, and we have Trent Edwards. Our eagerness to reboot, and @ the same time dump Vick without providing a credible solution to the QB problem is really no different to a skydiver so excited to make the jump that they leave without a parachute. My opinion has and will always be to do what is in the best interest of the team giving a set of circumstances. If Foles proves by the end of the season to have the mettle to be an alternative to Vick, or a FA better than our QBs comes over, then I'm good; in fact we could trade him if the situation arises. But let's not kid ourselves with this "anyone but Vick".

Love this post.  Exactly how I feel. I dont think Vick is anywhere near an Elite QB right now.  But we have the weapons NOW and with a HEALTHY and better O line we could be easily a contender especially in the NFC East.  The mistakes have got to get cut down obviously or its gonna be status quo from the last 2 years.  As for the post where she said I am ok with a 9 win team? You dont even know me and assuming some non sense?  Absolutely false I think its more ridicolous to think that approach that you mentioned in winning 5-11 in 2 years and winning the super bowl in the 3rd, tell me how likely is that?  With a rebuild the closest I see a super bowl is easily a 5 year window.  Like 99-04.

[wvjerome]

Phila.:chip, on 29 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

We need a sticky thread for all these Vick threads, or how about a Vick vs Foles thread. The Mods have to get tired of seeing thread after thread about Vick.

This is not a thread about Vick; rather it is one about his delusional fans.

[iluvdaeagles]

rstarter, on 29 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

As for the QB position moving forward, I feel like we're approaching it from the wrong angle. We say that it's time to move on from Vick, much like we did when we moved away from McNabb, but the situation then was definitely not the same. We had Kolb who most of us felt had done enough to be our future behind center, and Mike Vick. We certainly don't have the same luxury now though: in Foles we have a rookie who isn't there yet, and we have Trent Edwards. Our eagerness to reboot, and @ the same time dump Vick without providing a credible solution to the QB problem is really no different to a skydiver so excited to make the jump that they leave without a parachute. My opinion has and will always be to do what is in the best interest of the team giving a set of circumstances. If Foles proves by the end of the season to have the mettle to be an alternative to Vick, or a FA better than our QBs comes over, then I'm good; in fact we could trade him if the situation arises. But let's not kid ourselves with this "anyone but Vick".

good post

makes sense to me

wvjerome, on 29 November 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

This is not a thread about Vick; rather it is one about his delusional fans.

Mike Vick are the first 2 word in the title of the thread...

[wvjerome]

Eagles12RC, on 29 November 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

I have a question for the panel... After enduring all this failure and 0 super bowls in the history of the Eagles, Are you ready for a full rebuild with this team again?  I could only wish Peyton Manning injury happened this year and the Eagles made a push for him this off season and made us an instant super bowl contender but its not happening.  Vick gives us a great chance to be a contender... We need a O-line to protect him to see what he could really do.  Im sorry but when u have literally .02 seconds to make a decision with the ball and a D lineman in your face, Im sorry all the blame cannot be placed on him.  Yes, he needs to make better decisions, protect the ball better, and read the blitz better but the biggest failure for him this year is that O-line.  Obviously the guy who posted this has a negative agenda against Vick and his supporters. I do agree with the guy who posted down the middle, rationale fans because he made me sit back and think about it.  I say give it 1 more year, then if it doesn't work out IMPLODE... Foles is not the answer people!!!!

I have no "negative agenda" against anyone. This isn't even about Vick. This is about those people who are foolishly placing him before the team. perfect example you comments "Yes, he needs to make better decisions, protect the ball better, and read the blitz better...." you acknowledge he has flaws, but then you immediately move from them as if they are no big deal when they are precisely a big reason why Vick has so many troubles! He's not a rookie. He isn't going to change something he's readily admitted.
http://content.usato.../1#.ULeslaDleSo
Yet here you are assuming an 11 year veteran will change when HE HIMSELF SAID HE WOULDN'T. Stop living in a fantasy. Mike Vick brings us no closer to a super bowl than Trent Edwards or Nick Foles. It's a hard truth, but it's a truth none the less.

[CMPunk]

Nick Foles fans are even worse. Look, if you dont think Vick can get it done, thats one thing but stop proclaiming Foles as the next savior.

[AceofSpades]

CMPunk, on 29 November 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Nick Foles fans are even worse. Look, if you dont think Vick can get it done, thats one thing but stop proclaiming Foles as the next savior.

Foles is the new guy on the team. What's to say he can't get it done? What proof does anybody have to say he can't be a franchise QB or can't be what the Eagles need at QB? 2.5 games at QB isn't enough to tell one way or another.

[wvjerome]

CMPunk, on 29 November 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Nick Foles fans are even worse. Look, if you dont think Vick can get it done, thats one thing but stop proclaiming Foles as the next savior.

I make no proclamations about Nick Foles. Has your blind loyalty even blinded you to the fact I never mentioned Foles?

[CMPunk]

AceofSpades, on 29 November 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

Foles is the new guy on the team. What's to say he can't get it done? What proof does anybody have to say he can't be a franchise QB or can't be what the Eagles need at QB? 2.5 games at QB isn't enough to tell one way or another.

He was a 3rd Round Draft Pick for a reason.