65 replies to this topic

[RastaPasta]

Since we can -- with reasonable certainty -- predict sweeping coaching changes, this means we may have to entertain the possibility that we could switch to a 3-4 defense.

If that were the case...which current players fit where? Which FA/draft targets would then make the most sense?

I think Cox, Curry and Jenkins would be able to play the 3-technique. We do not have a true NT, and that would likely be one of the most important pieces to obtain in the offseason.

DeMeco obviously was less effective as a 3-4 ILB, but I think he and Kendricks could function. Manti Te'o could play 3-4 ILB and could be a target wether or not we switch to a 3-4.

I suppose Cole and Graham would be our OLBs, but that inspires little to no confidence whatsoever. Jarvis Jones is the top prospect at this position right now. He could be available for the Eagles to take.

Let's not forget that our secondary is still trash. I say we must keep DRC and Aso, though, and must upgrade the Safety positions.


Overall, I think it could be done, but it would be hard to make the investments needed to make it a worthy transition when OL and Safety could very well be our top priorities.

[jonnyeagles12]

If this is done, we'd have to draft either Jones or Te'o

[AceofSpades]

I have no problems with going to a 3-4. It's a good time to do it since they're rebuilding and wholesale changes are expected. I'd prefer to use a multiple front/hybrid defense like Baltimore. I'd love for the team to be able to go from a 3-4 to a 4-3 (or vice versa) like it's nothing. If you wanna try to keep the opposition guessing or give offensive coordinators problems, that's a really good way to do it.

[AllHailDawk]

RastaPasta, on 29 November 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Since we can -- with reasonable certainty -- predict sweeping coaching changes, this means we may have to entertain the possibility that we could switch to a 3-4 defense.

If that were the case...which current players fit where? Which FA/draft targets would then make the most sense?

I think Cox, Curry and Jenkins would be able to play the 3-technique. We do not have a true NT, and that would likely be one of the most important pieces to obtain in the offseason.

DeMeco obviously was less effective as a 3-4 ILB, but I think he and Kendricks could function. Manti Te'o could play 3-4 ILB and could be a target wether or not we switch to a 3-4.

I suppose Cole and Graham would be our OLBs, but that inspires little to no confidence whatsoever. Jarvis Jones is the top prospect at this position right now. He could be available for the Eagles to take.

Let's not forget that our secondary is still trash. I say we must keep DRC and Aso, though, and must upgrade the Safety positions.


Overall, I think it could be done, but it would be hard to make the investments needed to make it a worthy transition when OL and Safety could very well be our top priorities.

  I wouldn't necessarily be opposed, but I don't exactly see LB as a strength, we have 2 solid starters there, Ryans at a pro bowl level 4-3 MLB and Kendricks is fine.  That said, you go to a 34 and you need 4 guys, maybe pencil graham at one of the OLB spots, but you still have holes, and potentially reduce ryans effectiveness.  I don't mind the 4-3 alignment, I think you just have to quit with the line gimmicks and go out and beat the man in front of you, that's all.  Easier said than done obviously, but we have to change the paradigm from outsmarting/outscheming to outplaying the man in front of you.

[ggs5008]

No. As long as you have the correct coaching and good players, it doesn't matter what scheme you run. We are built better for the 4-3.

[RastaPasta]

jonnyeagles12, on 29 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

If this is done, we'd have to draft either Jones or Te'o

Or an NT? Johnathan Jenkins from Georgia is rated the #1 DT in a 3-4 according to draftek.com, though Hankins and Lotululei are higher-rated DTs for the 4-3.

Kind of hard to sell the fans on this when our O-line is terrible. We'd have to bank on Peters coming back strong.

[TenaciousEagles]

jonnyeagles12, on 29 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

If this is done, we'd have to draft either Jones or Te'o

Disagree with Te'o for the 3-4, if we stay in the 4-3, DEFINITELY need to draft Te'o.  But for 3-4 the two most important positions are Nose Tackle and outside linebacker.  Jones or Star Lotulelei (DT from Utah) would be the way to go.  I would lean more towards Jones because he has 15 sacks a year written all over him.

How do you think Fletcher Cox would do as a 3-4 DE?  That is an important piece to the whether or not the Eagles can transition to a 3-4.

[EagleArcher20]

I would also like to see a hybrid style. Throwing in a little 3-4 here in there would be good, but going basically straight 3-4 would involve losing some good players.

[NWMontana]

FA Rey Maualuga  ILB   6'1" 260      Terrance Knighton NT 6'2" 330

That gives us a solid start.


Draft  CB/OL/OL/S/OL

[inhumanehuman]

IMO we don't have the players to run a 3-4, and it's not like the 4-3 doesn't work. Bring the DE's back in a few steps. spread the LB's and vary their assignments/blitz packages, and play press man 2 under and keep the QB honest. It's a formula that's worked since it started, and it's a formula we can run with our players.

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if everything got turned upside down and we completely retooled, so I'm not necessarily against it.

Edit: Now that Tyrann Mathieu has declared, I'd much rather keep the 4-3, restructure/dump/trade Aso, and draft Honey Badger. Our secondary is instantly better.

[AceofSpades]

inhumanehuman, on 29 November 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

IMO we don't have the players to run a 3-4, and it's not like the 4-3 doesn't work. Bring the DE's back in a few steps. spread the LB's and vary their assignments/blitz packages, and play press man 2 under and keep the QB honest. It's a formula that's worked since it started, and it's a formula we can run with our players.

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if everything got turned upside down and we completely retooled, so I'm not necessarily against it.

The main point being made is that nothing should be ruled out. My personal feeling is that when making wholesale changes like the Eagles are expected to, there's no better time to try it out.

[PhillySmoke]

NWMontana, on 29 November 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

FA     Rey Maualuga  ILB   6'1" 260         Terrance Knighton NT     6'2" 330    

That gives us a solid start.


Draft  CB/OL/OL/S/OL

        

I always liked knighton. not sure he can play nose tackle tho. just because u have the size doesn't mean you can play the position. mauluga is a good fit but we got a long wait to see how it goes down in the offseason

[wrathofkala]

I've said it before and I will say it again. We have a bunch of players playing OUT OF POSITION. The list includes basically all our defensive ends except maybe Cole and Curry. The other guys like Graham, Hunt, Tapp, Etc are really 3-4 outside linebackers. That being said, Cole and Curry could make the transition but losing a few pounds and reps at those positions would be needed. Also, Kendricks is NOT a strong side linebacker. He is clearly a weakside linebacker in the 4-3 or an inside linebacker in the 3-4. Cox and Thorton would make very good defensive ends in the 3-4 but we would need a nose tackles and maybe Dixon could be the backup NT.

Graham would be an absolute star as a 3-4 outside linebacker. His situation almost reminds me of when we had Mamula years ago.
Sounds crazy but had Mamula been on the Patriots in a 3-4 defense he would have been a much better player because the 3-4 allows these guys to go up against blocking backs on occasion and they start from a stand up position OFF the line were the offense cannot immediately get their hands on the guy. Working in space would benefit the SMALLER players we have.

[Phila.:chip]

RastaPasta, on 29 November 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Since we can -- with reasonable certainty -- predict sweeping coaching changes, this means we may have to entertain the possibility that we could switch to a 3-4 defense.

If that were the case...which current players fit where? Which FA/draft targets would then make the most sense?

I think Cox, Curry and Jenkins would be able to play the 3-technique. We do not have a true NT, and that would likely be one of the most important pieces to obtain in the offseason.

DeMeco obviously was less effective as a 3-4 ILB, but I think he and Kendricks could function. Manti Te'o could play 3-4 ILB and could be a target wether or not we switch to a 3-4.

I suppose Cole and Graham would be our OLBs, but that inspires little to no confidence whatsoever. Jarvis Jones is the top prospect at this position right now. He could be available for the Eagles to take.

Let's not forget that our secondary is still trash. I say we must keep DRC and Aso, though, and must upgrade the Safety positions.


Overall, I think it could be done, but it would be hard to make the investments needed to make it a worthy transition when OL and Safety could very well be our top priorities.

I think you mean 5 technique. 3 technique tackles are used in 4-3 schemes.All of our tackles could probably play the 5 techniques, but I think moving to the 3-4 all depends on whether our DEs can make the transition to OLBs, and whether Kendricks can move to the inside. Also, the Texans traded Ryans to us because he didn't fit the 3-4 scheme, so in my opinion, it's best to stick with the 3-4. We already have enough holes to fill. We don't need to create new ones by playing Ryans, and possibly a good number of our defensive ends, out of position. We also lack the NT.

Stick with the 4-3.

[Phila.:chip]

wrathofkala, on 29 November 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

I've said it before and I will say it again. We have a bunch of players playing OUT OF POSITION. The list includes basically all our defensive ends except maybe Cole and Curry. The other guys like Graham, Hunt, Tapp, Etc are really 3-4 outside linebackers. That being said, Cole and Curry could make the transition but losing a few pounds and reps at those positions would be needed. Also, Kendricks is NOT a strong side linebacker. He is clearly a weakside linebacker in the 4-3 or an inside linebacker in the 3-4. Cox and Thorton would make very good defensive ends in the 3-4 but we would need a nose tackles and maybe Dixon could be the backup NT.

Graham would be an absolute star as a 3-4 outside linebacker. His situation almost reminds me of when we had Mamula years ago.
Sounds crazy but had Mamula been on the Patriots in a 3-4 defense he would have been a much better player because the 3-4 allows these guys to go up against blocking backs on occasion and they start from a stand up position OFF the line were the offense cannot immediately get their hands on the guy. Working in space would benefit the SMALLER players we have.

I can see Graham, but what do you see in the other guys that makes you think they're 3-4 outside linebackers ? Can they play in space ? Can they run with TEs ?

[SilverChaosVII]

It's not a switch that would be perfect over night.

It would take a season or so. We don't have the right personnel.

That said, I hope it's a change we make. Next year we will be rebuilding anyway. I want to see a dominant defense back in Philly... the majority of top tier defenses in the league are now 3-4

[wrathofkala]

Phila.:chip, on 29 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

I can see Graham, but what do you see in the other guys that makes you think they're 3-4 outside linebackers ? Can they play in space ? Can they run with TEs ?

lets be honest, how many times does Lamar Woodley get exposed like he could be?  In the right scheme those guys would be protected from getting exposed like that.

[AceofSpades]

SilverChaosVII, on 29 November 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

It's not a switch that would be perfect over night.

It would take a season or so. We don't have the right personnel.

That said, I hope it's a change we make. Next year we will be rebuilding anyway. I want to see a dominant defense back in Philly... the majority of top tier defenses in the league are now 3-4

It pains me to think about the dominance the Eagles have had defensively over the years and to look the finesse soft crap we'd seen over the last few years. I know we'll never see another House of Pain Game but the Eagles need to get their edge back. It hurts that people see the Eagles defense & laugh at it as opposed to losing sleep over it.

[DieHardPhan]

jonnyeagles12, on 29 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

If this is done, we'd have to draft either Jones or Te'o

Only issue with drafting either of these two athletes is that we presumably forego bolstering our O-Line in the first round.

[Esage]

I would grab Daniel McCullers in the 2nd round out of Tennessee to play nose tackle, if the Eagles switch to a 3-4 and he enters the draft.

http://www.nfldrafts...=2014&genpos=DT

[mayanh8]

I think the 3-4 defense is a good response to flood of run-first QB's entering the league... keeping the linebackers back from the line of scrimmage and eliminating the huge gains by a QB scramble.

Usually hate being late to the party but I can't argue that the 3-4 isn't effective.

[mike030270]

RastaPasta, on 29 November 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Or an NT? Johnathan Jenkins from Georgia is rated the #1 DT in a 3-4 according to draftek.com, though Hankins and Lotululei are higher-rated DTs for the 4-3.

Kind of hard to sell the fans on this when our O-line is terrible. We'd have to bank on Peters coming back strong.

DieHardPhan, on 29 November 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Only issue with drafting either of these two athletes is that we presumably forego bolstering our O-Line in the first round.

This is becoming a huge gamble. Granted the possibility of him coming back seems to get better with players in similar situations but still. Has there been any word on how he is doing besides him not being activated for the end? Even if the Oline does get healthy, they need to get depth so this doesn't happen again because Dunlap and Bell are not the answers.

[Rodney_Zero]

* First off- If we where to go 3-4, the NT is the key in switching, we have nobody on the roster that is a true NT

* A 3-4 defense relies on the DL to be unselfish (think hayensworth), Jenkins has done it before in GB, can Cox do it?, or does he want to be a pass rushing DT in a 4-3?

* Graham would need to sheed some LB's, Cole was tried at OLB for 3-4 teams at the combine, did'nt like like it and felt uncompfortable. Kendricks could "perhaps" play ISLB, but the other ISLB better be 6' 2" 250 ish, Ryans, IMO he's a pure 4-3 MLB so now what? Curry, Hunt  who knows, Tapp, too squat and slow to play OLB in a 3-4.

* Secondary?, 3-4 or 4-3 does'nt matter, most 3-4 teams do what 4-3 teams in terms of coverage, like Man and zone, IIRC Pittsburgh and NE play a lot of Cover 2.

* If we do go 3-4 with a new coaching staff, Cox, Kendricks & Ryans could be mistakes drafted and traded for since they are not the  prototype players, except "maybe Cox", depends on if he wants to be unselfish.

* Hybrid Defense, you need 3/4 personel to run that defense, and ask yourself, how many Hybrid defenses have won a SB?, AZ, no, Balt under Nolan, Ryan, Pagno, , no, SF under Nolan, no, Miami under Noaln, no,Jax under Tucker, no, Jets under Ryan, no, SD under Rivera, no.

**Bottom line, both the 4-3 & 3-4 both work, it depends on the DC, assistants, and players

*** Also, the 3-4 is not more physical, better against the run, or invented to stop the WCO

**** 3-4 was invented back in the 40's by Bud Wilkenson @ Oklahoma, it's first origins in the NFL where brought by Chuck Fairbanks in NE who coached under Wilkenson @ OKlahoma

[wrathofkala]

Having to deal with RG3 we just might have to change to a 3-4 to contain the outside...RG3 killed us with those scrambles. The Redskins are super effective running outside too with their backs...The Redskins are the team that appears on the rise IMO. We should consider them if we change our defense and the 3-4 might be our best option. Regardless, something needs to be changed because our defense sucks.

[Rodney_Zero]

wrathofkala, on 29 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

Having to deal with RG3 we just might have to change to a 3-4 to contain the outside...RG3 killed us with those scrambles. The Redskins are super effective running outside too with their backs...The Redskins are the team that appears on the rise IMO. We should consider them if we change our defense and the 3-4 might be our best option. Regardless, something needs to be changed because our defense sucks.

Tampa under Kiffin never had a problem with Vick when he was in Atlanta, and  they where a 4-3 D

wrathofkala, on 29 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

Having to deal with RG3 we just might have to change to a 3-4 to contain the outside...RG3 killed us with those scrambles. The Redskins are super effective running outside too with their backs...The Redskins are the team that appears on the rise IMO. We should consider them if we change our defense and the 3-4 might be our best option. Regardless, something needs to be changed because our defense sucks.

Well, 4 D-Cords, 2 DL coaches, 2 LB coaches later what do you expect?

[PickFoles]

How about a 3-3 defense, since our safeties suck so much? (3 CB and 2 S).

[Rodney_Zero]

PickFoles, on 29 November 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

How about a 3-3 defense, since our safeties suck so much? (3 CB and 2 S).

Back in the 90's Tampa ran a 4-4-3 defense, did'nt pan out too well

[Robbieb77]

Huge supporter of making the switch to the 3-4. Would love to take Star or Jones with our 1st pick.

[Rodney_Zero]

Robbieb77, on 29 November 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

Huge supporter of making the switch to the 3-4. Would love to take Star or Jones with our 1st pick.

If so, it would have to be Star, DE's and LB's can be found in the draft, look what Houston and SF found:

Barwin
Reed
Dobbins
Brooks

Bowman
Harylson

NT is the key for switch, poor NT = nightmare for the ISLB's

[L.E.]

Whatever the new guy wants is fine with me. Just so as long as we're done with the midget fastballs.