65 replies to this topic

[aidanabet]

I am trying to be "fair and balanced" here so bare with me.  I was thinking about the Eagles 2013 season and the future and I think the two main questions surronding this team are Head Coach and Starting QB.  Obviously, Vick is going to exit.  Foles has some positives and I really believe it is way to early to know for sure.

I think this.  Foles has excellent size and average to above average arm.  I know he broke school records held by Drew Brees who is actually an interesting QB to compare Foles too........I know everyone will attach this point because of the size but this is my thinking.  Many people didn't think Brees was the elite QB he turned out to be because he was in the wrong system at SD.

I think that with a revamped Oline.  A new head coach and anybody calling plays besides Marty Morg, that Foles has definate promise.  Seriously we have some good weapons and we definately need additional help, but I think the problem with this offense was first the injuries on the online and second the play calling.  I think that if you draft that tackle from texas jockeal and move herramans back over to guard, you get peters and kelce back from injury you have a good oline for Foles to grow with the new headcoach and o-coordinatior.

I say be patient with him and don't get carried away with each games performance.

[Cappeeler]

Thing that gets me is that some fans compare him to the other QB rookies unfairly. The other rookies had more time to grow with there respected team. It's not fair at this point. If he starts next year we should see some growth and improvements.

[PickFoles]

aidanabet, on 29 November 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I know he broke school records held by Drew Brees who is actually an interesting QB to compare Foles too........I know everyone will attach this point because of the size but this is my thinking.

You're right, everyone is going to attack this point because it's a terrible comparison.

Drew Brees, like Tom Brady, was a very small quarterback with a very accurate pass. NFL scouts were worried that both of them weren't big/strong enough to make the cut.

Nick Foles is a big quarterback with a very inaccurate pass.

[Krukslonelyball]

I think his name rhymes with D Holes.

[seengreen]

Now having watched him via the normal broadcast views, it seems like he has an elongated throwing motion and he doesn't drive the ball as much as the throws it hard not through his upper body. He is accurate. But also thinking a lot. He had some opportunities against Carolina. Several of his passes were late. Almost intercepted. I don't particularly like his accuracy and touch on balls thrown 20+ yards. He never seems to overthrow his target when going deep. Many of those deep passes are underthrown. So he needs to get stronger and build up some muscle mass. He has good instincts, and keeps his eyes down-field. He has been lucky not to have more INT's than he does. He's grasping what the defenses are doing slightly. The ability to recognize something and audible quickly. His understanding of the offensive concept is rapidly improving. Nick does not have an "IT" factor though. He's a laid back kid who's very Cool Hand Luke... Is he a franchise QB? Thus far, I would say no.

[mike030270]

Cappeeler, on 29 November 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

Thing that gets me is that some fans compare him to the other QB rookies unfairly. The other rookies had more time to grow with there respected team. It's not fair at this point. If he starts next year we should see some growth and improvements.

This. Not sure why it's hard for people to get this.

[L.E.]

At least this guy has a chance to grow and get better. You can't say that about the other guy.

[baldbird]

PickFoles, on 29 November 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

You're right, everyone is going to attack this point because it's a terrible comparison.

Drew Brees, like Tom Brady, was a very small quarterback with a very accurate pass. NFL scouts were worried that both of them weren't big/strong enough to make the cut.

Nick Foles is a big quarterback with a very inaccurate pass.

Tom Brady is 6'4 225 lbs he is a tall qb brees is short at 6'0..But Brady was thought to have a weak arm.

[PickFoles]

baldbird, on 29 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

Tom Brady is 6'4 225 lbs he is a tall qb brees is short at 6'0..But Brady was thought to have a weak arm.

Yes, I also meant big as in muscular. Take a look at scouting reports and images of Tom Brady at the combine. He looks like a twig.

[time2rock]

L.E., on 29 November 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

At least this guy has a chance to grow and get better. You can't say that about the other guy.

Well put.  Hard to figure out why others can't see this.

[AceofSpades]

People saying Foles sucks now is just unfair to him. Reason being he's still a rookie and is still getting accustomed to the NFL. 2.5 games isn't enough of a definitive measurement to determine how his career will be. I think with time, with MUCH BETTER COACHING, and a new/healthy OL Foles will be able to show that he deserves to play in the NFL.

[WetFerret]

time2rock, on 30 November 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

At least this guy has a chance to grow and get better. You can't say that about the other guy.

Well put.  Hard to figure out why others can't see this.

And this is exactly what we need to find out for next year.

[nottsfootballfan]

Didn’t see much to get excited about last game. Other games there were at least a few good throws.

Only plus from last week was audibles I reckon. He seems to float his long balls a lot. Want to see some improvement before end of the year.

[time2rock]

WetFerret, on 30 November 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

And this is exactly what we need to find out for next year.

Agreed, but think it may take next year as well to find out what we have in Foles.

1)  Hard to make any kind of evaluation of him behind the OL he is playing behind for the remainder of this season

2)  With a full coaching overhaul and new offensive schemes that will certainly be implemented, he'll need time to get comfortable in them (similar to Penn State's McGloin, having to learn O'Brien's system, which was very different than anything they ran previously - he struggled early but by season's end he was playing very well, having the most profilic year ever at QB for PSU).

[Pegger]

I fully agree with the OP. Actually going into next year we've got a fairly small number of options:

On the roster
Foles - Young guy with upside. I'm betting our new coach will have to be someone that can develop a QB.
Vick - Probably cut becasue he has a $17M cap number and the Eagles are projected to be about that over.
Edwards - Good backup and he's been helpful to Foles. No reason to cut him but also no reason to really look at him as a starter.

Draft
Geno Smith (WV) - Probably the top candidate. As much as I like him he's still a lesser prospect than Luck or RG3, but has comparible trates (smart, athletic, accurate and had a great senior season). The issue I have is unless we have the #1 overall pick I doubt he'll be available.
Matt Barkley (USC) - Maybe hurt himself a bit coming back for another year. Somewhat reminds me of Matt Leinart in that way. Ultimately he hasn't been that good in the biggest games, which really make me wonder what he'll become as a pro.
Lance Jones (Okla) - Really hurt his draft stock this past year. The biggest red flag is after he got hit a few times in almost any game his level of play dropped dramatically. That's a bad trait for a QB let alone an NFL caliber one.

*Should say that I'm not overly excited about this draft class. I see it being deep at corner and the DL, but nothing really top tier, just a lot of good prospects. Almost every other positon is so-so IMO. What that means is the liklihood of grabbing a franchise guy is probably lower than the norm.

Free Agents
Joe Flacco - Really doubt he even hits the market.
Jason Campbell - He's a career backup and nothing more.
Matt Moore - Probably the best of the guys that are realistically available.
Tarvaris Jackson - I just included his name to show how bad this FA QB group is.

When looking at those options a new coach might be incline to run with Foles. Heck, I would. He's also been tough to analyze. Because of our OL we've had to run a lot of shorter routes. He's been fairly accurate there, but he's also had a few bone head moments. Ideally we'd get a coach that likes to run so we can get the most out of McCoy, Brown and of course play action. If you look at RG3 he's tearing it up, but so much of his big plays come off of play action where the WR is 5+ yards open. On paper when Peters, Kelce and Herremans (more as a guard) are back we could have a real strong run blocking group. With Foles having nice touch on the short passes and a big arm that type of scheme would fit him perfectly.

[Pegger]

baldbird, on 29 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

Tom Brady is 6'4 225 lbs he is a tall qb brees is short at 6'0..But Brady was thought to have a weak arm.

Brady was by all accounts a horrible prospect. He had an okay 2 seasons at Michigan where in that span he averaged around 1.5 TDs/game. Nothing jaw dropping there. At the combine he was slow, looked unathletic and had at best an average arm. When the Pats too him in the 6th some even thought it was a reach.

Actually even after his frist season there was nothing to think he'd be good. He got into one game, threw 3 balls and completed one for 6 yards. After that he spent about 5 seasons being a real good game manager (QB rating between 85-95) on teams that had a very strong defense and could run the ball well. After that he transitioned into what I consider a franchise QB. Funny enough when looking at his stats they almost work inversely with the teams Superbowl wins. If anything as their defensive ranking has fallen they have not been able to win a Superbowl and specfiically losing two to the Giants.

[McNabbIsGone]

aidanabet
aidanabet
Newbie

• 
  
• Members
  
• 
  
• 37 posts

• Team:Eagles

Posted Yesterday, 03:35 PM
I am trying to be "fair and balanced" here so bare with me.    OK. I'll BEAR with you if you'll BEAR with me. I don't expect you to BARE your soul to me so everything's cool. Please BEAR that in mind.

[Blindgreed1]

PickFoles, on 29 November 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

You're right, everyone is going to attack this point because it's a terrible comparison.

Drew Brees, like Tom Brady, was a very small quarterback with a very accurate pass. NFL scouts were worried that both of them weren't big/strong enough to make the cut.

Nick Foles is a big quarterback with a very inaccurate pass.

Simply not true.

[vic92353]

Foles does need a chance.  I think the reason so many attacked him is because so many of you said things as if he was going to change things around.  I was one of the people that said changing Qbs wasn't going to change a thing,  because the entire team sucks. Then some of you came back with how Foles is going to make the O-line better and make the defense ralley around him and things are going to turn around.  And how Foles was the next Tom Brady and other dumb arse remarks.  Some people just got upset and kind of taken it out on Foles based on what some of you said. i think if some of you would have left out the greatness remarks Fans woiuld have been more patient.  Personally I think he does need a chance.  I support the person under center and it doesn't matter who they are.

[zenclaybourne]

vic92353, on 30 November 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Foles does need a chance.  I think the reason so many attacked him is because so many of you said things as if he was going to change things around.  I was one of the people that said changing Qbs wasn't going to change a thing,  because the entire team sucks. Then some of you came back with how Foles is going to make the O-line better and make the defense ralley around him and things are going to turn around.  And how Foles was the next Tom Brady and other dumb arse remarks.  Some people just got upset and kind of taken it out on Foles based on what some of you said. i think if some of you would have left out the greatness remarks Fans woiuld have been more patient.  Personally I think he does need a chance.  I support the person under center and it doesn't matter who they are.

Good that you can cheer for the team and hope Foles develops. I still have no idea who the heck said Foles was the next Brady with any level of seriousness and the comments about the defense and turning things around are also foreign to me. I have been baffled by the amount of fans clinging to Vick as though he were an all-time great, particularly when he really hasn't done anything here.

[Blindgreed1]

zenclaybourne, on 30 November 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Good that you can cheer for the team and hope Foles develops. I still have no idea who the heck said Foles was the next Brady with any level of seriousness and the comments about the defense and turning things around are also foreign to me. I have been baffled by the amount of fans clinging to Vick as though he were an all-time great, particularly when he really hasn't done anything here since the 2010 season.

fyp

[ChimpKelly]

Pegger, on 30 November 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

I fully agree with the OP. Actually going into next year we've got a fairly small number of options:

On the roster
Foles - Young guy with upside. I'm betting our new coach will have to be someone that can develop a QB.
Vick - Probably cut becasue he has a $17M cap number and the Eagles are projected to be about that over.
Edwards - Good backup and he's been helpful to Foles. No reason to cut him but also no reason to really look at him as a starter.

Draft
Geno Smith (WV) - Probably the top candidate. As much as I like him he's still a lesser prospect than Luck or RG3, but has comparible trates (smart, athletic, accurate and had a great senior season). The issue I have is unless we have the #1 overall pick I doubt he'll be available.
Matt Barkley (USC) - Maybe hurt himself a bit coming back for another year. Somewhat reminds me of Matt Leinart in that way. Ultimately he hasn't been that good in the biggest games, which really make me wonder what he'll become as a pro.
Lance Jones (Okla) - Really hurt his draft stock this past year. The biggest red flag is after he got hit a few times in almost any game his level of play dropped dramatically. That's a bad trait for a QB let alone an NFL caliber one.

*Should say that I'm not overly excited about this draft class. I see it being deep at corner and the DL, but nothing really top tier, just a lot of good prospects. Almost every other positon is so-so IMO. What that means is the liklihood of grabbing a franchise guy is probably lower than the norm.

Free Agents
Joe Flacco - Really doubt he even hits the market.
Jason Campbell - He's a career backup and nothing more.
Matt Moore - Probably the best of the guys that are realistically available.
Tarvaris Jackson - I just included his name to show how bad this FA QB group is.

When looking at those options a new coach might be incline to run with Foles. Heck, I would. He's also been tough to analyze. Because of our OL we've had to run a lot of shorter routes. He's been fairly accurate there, but he's also had a few bone head moments. Ideally we'd get a coach that likes to run so we can get the most out of McCoy, Brown and of course play action. If you look at RG3 he's tearing it up, but so much of his big plays come off of play action where the WR is 5+ yards open. On paper when Peters, Kelce and Herremans (more as a guard) are back we could have a real strong run blocking group. With Foles having nice touch on the short passes and a big arm that type of scheme would fit him perfectly.

Landry Jones.

Barkley is overrated. Don't want him or really anyone else on this list. Idk about Flacco.

All that said, if one of those guys you listed ends up as our QB, next year will basically be another lost season. I don't know if any of those guys have what it takes to get to a SB. I think Flacco probably would've been there by now had he been good enough. Maybe his defense can poll him through this year.

[zenclaybourne]

Blindgreed1, on 30 November 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

fyp

A first round playoff exit is not something I consider an accomplishment. It could have been a building point, but it has only gotten worse. He's managed to do roughly as much as Ty Detmer did here.

[Blindgreed1]

zenclaybourne, on 30 November 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

A first round playoff exit is not something I consider an accomplishment. It could have been a building point, but it has only gotten worse. He's managed to do roughly as much as Ty Detmer did here.

Ty was never a consideration for MVP.  Vick was.  Don't get me wrong.  There's no part of me that want's to see #7 in Green next year, but his 2010 season was pretty damned good.  You can't take that away from the guy.

[zenclaybourne]

Blindgreed1, on 30 November 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Ty was never a consideration for MVP.  Vick was.  Don't get me wrong.  There's no part of me that want's to see #7 in Green next year, but his 2010 season was pretty damned good.  You can't take that away from the guy.

I'm not saying he didn't play well, he was electric for a good portion of that season, but he didn't accomplish anything. I suppose I should give him credit for making the playoffs which may be a big deal going forward from here. Still, it was hardly enough to warrant the insane level of loyalty on display from some fans.

[Blindgreed1]

zenclaybourne, on 30 November 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

I'm not saying he didn't play well, he was electric for a good portion of that season, but he didn't accomplish anything. I suppose I should give him credit for making the playoffs which may be a big deal going forward from here. Still, it was hardly enough to warrant the insane level of loyalty on display from some fans.

I couldn't agree more.  I think Iggs fans are so hungry for a win that they will sink their teeth into a crumb left on the plate after the cake is all gone.  Just one man's opinion.

[Pegger]

phillyphan754, on 30 November 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

Landry Jones.

Barkley is overrated. Don't want him or really anyone else on this list. Idk about Flacco.

All that said, if one of those guys you listed ends up as our QB, next year will basically be another lost season. I don't know if any of those guys have what it takes to get to a SB. I think Flacco probably would've been there by now had he been good enough. Maybe his defense can poll him through this year.

Technically it's Landry 'Lance' Jones. He goes by Lance, not Landry.

I agree and that's the point I was making. Unleess we somehow get Geno I'm all for 2013 being the year of Nick Foles. A new coach can see if he's got something there and if not the next offseason is where we target the next franchise guy.

A name I didn't mention is Matt Flynn. He signed a 2 year deal this offseason. If the Eagles wanted to trade for him they wouldn't have to offer much and he'll be a 28 year old potential guy next offseason.

[downsoufeagleluva]

Foles has to learn how to read a defense.  Neither Foles or Kolb proved that they could , which is why Vick beat them both out to become the starting QB, despite the common TATE stupidity that says that he cant.

And now with a weaker OL, and stupider coaches, he is supposed show something going against real NFL starters now instead of training camp employees who are now either coaching at high schools or manning the late shifts at UPS?


Deal with that.

[mike030270]

downsoufeagleluva, on 30 November 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Foles has to learn how to read a defense.  Neither Foles or Kolb proved that they could , which is why Vick beat them both out to become the starting QB, despite the common TATE stupidity that says that he cant.

And now with a weaker OL, and stupider coaches, he is supposed show something going against real NFL starters now instead of training camp employees who are now either coaching at high schools or manning the late shifts at UPS?


Deal with that.

Vick didn't really beat Foles out since Foles was literally just drafted. If anything, Foles beat Kolb for backup.

[AY83Eagles]

I don't get it, I see some people attacking Foles already by saying that he isn't a possible future.  He is a rookie!  Some people actually expected him to come in and revive our team right away?  That's absurd.  I say we stick with Foles for next year unless something big is available!  But right now I'm all for Nick Foles and want to see him with a healthy offensive line and run game!