72 replies to this topic

[vic92353]

I have read alot of post saying that fans want Gruden to be the head coach.  Can anyone really say why?  Has Gruden done anything in the NFL to warrant the Eagles HC position?  Why does so many people want him to come to Philly?   I can't find anything indicating he will do well.  Or is it because thay don't care as long as Andy Reid is gone.  Just asking because i don't know.  

[AceofSpades]

I'm not completely opposed to Gruden but he's far from the top of my list. The reason people want Gruden is because he's got a name they recognize and he wants to get back into coaching. People can't definitively say that Gruden can do certain things with the team. People think he'll be able to do the same thing he did in Tampa in 2002 and people can't let go of 2002. They forget that Gruden hasn't won another playoff game since then and his team had an epic collapse in 2008 for the playoff spot that ultimately went to the Eagles.

[vic92353]

AceofSpades, on 30 November 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

I'm not completely opposed to Gruden but he's far from the top of my list. The reason people want Gruden is because he's got a name they recognize and he wants to get back into coaching. People can't definitively say that Gruden can do certain things with the team. People think he'll be able to do the same thing he did in Tampa in 2002 and people can't let go of 2002. They forget that Gruden hasn't won another playoff game since then and his team had an epic collapse in 2008 for the playoff spot that ultimately went to the Eagles.

I understand that they remember him for the 2002 SB.  But that team was already in place.  Sure he coached them but that team was more organized than the Eagles.  Actually for him to whip this team into shape involves a whole lot of whipping.  After that season they went to the Sb I can't find where he has done much else.  So why so many Gruden fans?  

[WetFerret]

There's probably somewhat of a nostalgia factor in there as well, being part of the Eagles in the past.

[time2rock]

AceofSpades, on 30 November 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

I'm not completely opposed to Gruden but he's far from the top of my list. The reason people want Gruden is because he's got a name they recognize and he wants to get back into coaching. People can't definitively say that Gruden can do certain things with the team. People think he'll be able to do the same thing he did in Tampa in 2002 and people can't let go of 2002. They forget that Gruden hasn't won another playoff game since then and his team had an epic collapse in 2008 for the playoff spot that ultimately went to the Eagles.

A lot of that  had to do with the team having sacrificed so many high draft picks to Oakland to get Gruden, bad draft picks by a GM (McKay) that he didn't get along with, therefore limited emerging young talent to develop a solid nucleus (sound familiar ??), salary-cap issues therefore no ability to fill holes in FA, etc.  I don't pin those failures all on Chuckie.

[BillTheButcher]

had gruden done anything in the NFL... hmmmmm.... gee idk.. he won a super bowl thingy... got the raiders to the AFCCG

[BillTheButcher]

bucs gave up 2 1sts 2 2nds and 8 million  to get gruden. paid off for them, they got that thing we dont have.

[forevereagles]

vic92353, on 30 November 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

I have read alot of post saying that fans want Gruden to be the head coach.  Can anyone really say why?  Has Gruden done anything in the NFL to warrant the Eagles HC position?  Why does so many people want him to come to Philly?   I can't find anything indicating he will do well.  Or is it because thay don't care as long as Andy Reid is gone.  Just asking because i don't know.  

1) partly because he is a name they know. He was once our OC.  2) He is a coach who won a super bowl ( albiet with another mans draft picks) so they feel he could do the same here with the (believed)  talent we have here. 3)He isn't Any Reid who many have never embraced. And can't wait to get rid of.

I never disliked Reid. But I have come to agree that he doesn't seem to have what it takes to get the best out of the talent on this team.
He's just tooo fatherly . And like all rebellous children  if you allow them to have their way too often, they become  unmanagable.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

How many multi superbowl plus play off run winning coaches are there available as serious options?  Of the ex NFL head coaches out there Gruden has as good a case as any, he's one of those names that'll always come up, like the idea of Cowher or Dungy coming out of retirement..

[AceofSpades]

Cochis_Calhoun, on 30 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

How many multi superbowl plus play off run winning coaches are there available as serious options?  Of the ex NFL head coaches out there Gruden has as good a case as any, he's one of those names that'll always come up, like the idea of Cowher or Dungy coming out of retirement..

My problem is people get lazy and only wanna cling to the names. They act like the unknown commodities are automatically gonna struggle or fail as the head coach and act like the proven names are gonna guarantee success. I'd rather go with the up and coming assistants so they can at least prove what they can do because in recent years many of those coaches just needed that chance to coach a football team.

[BillTheButcher]

AceofSpades, on 30 November 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

My problem is people get lazy and only wanna cling to the names. They act like the unknown commodities are automatically gonna struggle or fail as the head coach and act like the proven names are gonna guarantee success. I'd rather go with the up and coming assistants so they can at least prove what they can do because in recent years many of those coaches just needed that chance to coach a football team.

then theres people that cling to the unknows like since their unknow they will be diamonds in the rough.

[AceofSpades]

BillTheButcher, on 30 November 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

then theres people that cling to the unknows like since their unknow they will be diamonds in the rough.

Tell that Mike McCarthy who just won a Super Bowl 2 years ago and people ripped the Packers for hiring him over some of the other candidates that were out there back in 2006. Tell that to Mike Tomlin who won a Super Bowl in 2008 and only served as a defensive coordinator for 1 year and appeared in another Super Bowl. And don't give me the crap about well anybody could've coached that team with what they had. Fact remains he could've gone in and completely screwed it up so obviously he as head coach did something right for them to be in 2 Super Bowls since Cowher left.

Tell that to Bill Belichick who people thought didn't deserve another head coaching job after what happened in Cleveland who'd been in 5 Super Bowls since the Browns disaster.

[bobeph]

Bill O'BrienzzZzz!!!!

[BillTheButcher]

AceofSpades, on 30 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Tell that Mike McCarthy who just won a Super Bowl 2 years ago and people ripped the Packers for hiring him over some of the other candidates that were out there back in 2006.

ok your right just hire anybody that no one has heard of and super bowlzzzzz lol

[AceofSpades]

BillTheButcher, on 30 November 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

ok your right just hire anybody that no one has heard of and super bowlzzzzz lol

No what I'm saying is hire the right coach. People need to stop clinging to the big names as if that guarantees success and hiring the unknown guarantees struggles. Be honest, what's wrong with hiring the unknown assistant? What's wrong with hiring the guy who's ready for a chance to prove himself? People are so scared of the unknown that they think if it's somebody they'd never heard of before he must not be as good as some other other names they recognize.

[Eagles311]

vic92353, on 30 November 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

I understand that they remember him for the 2002 SB.  But that team was already in place.  Sure he coached them but that team was more organized than the Eagles.  Actually for him to whip this team into shape involves a whole lot of whipping.  After that season they went to the Sb I can't find where he has done much else.  So why so many Gruden fans?  

Sure that team was already in place, but it's not like he didn't have a part in putting a Super Bowl team together.  He essentially built the team he beat in the Super Bowl that year (Oakland).

[AceofSpades]

Eagles311, on 30 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

Sure that team was already in place, but it's not like he didn't have a part in putting a Super Bowl team together.  He essentially built the team he beat in the Super Bowl that year (Oakland).

Not to mention Bill Callahan didn't change a thing out there. It was a disaster. Callahan's gotta be smart enough to realize that Gruden knows everything they have because he put that team together and was gonna be expecting certain things and it's exactly what happened.

[BillTheButcher]

AceofSpades, on 30 November 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

No what I'm saying is hire the right coach. People need to stop clinging to the big names as if that guarantees success and hiring the unknown guarantees struggles. Be honest, what's wrong with hiring the unknown assistant? What's wrong with hiring the guy who's ready for a chance to prove himself? People are so scared of the unknown that they think if it's somebody they'd never heard of before he must not be as good as some other other names they recognize.

i feel you, i was kidding.. kind of.. but hiring the unknow guy the percentage of success def is lowered.. i would think.

[AceofSpades]

BillTheButcher, on 30 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

i feel you, i was kidding.. kind of.. but hiring the unknow guy the percentage of success def is lowered.. i would think.

I'm sure it is. I'm sure guys like Cowher, Gruden, & Billick who crave the money and the power wanna go to situations like the Colts from 2002. They were close but needed something else. They don't wanna go into rebuilding projects. Gruden & Billick might because they wanna get back into coaching. Cowher wants the power and if he did it'd have to be with a team where he wouldn't have to do too much to put them over the top.

With this team, I'd prefer for them to go with the unknown who surrounds himself with veteran coaches. To me that's what's important for hiring the unknown head coach. Who does he surround himself with in terms of coaches? The most important thing for the Eagles is that they get back to what worked from 2000-2004. They have to go back to building the core of the team through the draft, with undrafted free agents, and the scouting department doing overtime to put together the best group of homegrown talent. Use FA & trades here and there to add pieces but not centerpieces. That's where the Eagles have gotten in some serious trouble. Well that, and the fact that they have piss poor coaching. Mike Caldwell & Mike Zordich? Seriously?

[phillygrump]

BillTheButcher, on 30 November 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

ok your right just hire anybody that no one has heard of and super bowlzzzzz lol

No coach has ever won a SUper Bowl with 2 different teams as a head coach.

A new no name hire might be the best thing for this team. These great coaches come from somewhere. Just because a guy has a well known name in college or as an NFL coordinator doesn't mean he translates well to an NFL head coaching position.

Why does everyone assume that it does?

[SilverChaosVII]

I think a lot of people want Jon Gruden because of the personality. We are all sick of the soft team that we have seen for years under Andy. We want a blue collar, hard nosed, loud, passionate guy. That's Gruden.

He isn't a bad coach like many people make him out to be. That doesn't mean he is great either. I think it's safe to say he is a good coach though. The guy does have a Super Bowl.

People tend to focus on his time at Tampa. He showed up, won the team a Super Bowl and then the team fell apart.

STOP. Pay attention to his time in Oakland. He actually did a very nice job with the Raiders.

His first two years he went 8-8. The next year the team went 12-4 and made it to the AFC Championship Game. They lost to the Ravens (who went on to win the Super Bowl) The following year they went 10-6 and made it to the AFC Championship Game. They lost to the Patriots (who went on to win the Super Bowl) on the tuck rule. Had it not been for that call the Raiders would have very likely won the Super Bowl that year.

Gruden had 2 good seasons while building the team. Then he had 2 runs at a Super Bowl. That's pretty impressive considering the upper management at Oakland and the difficulties that I coach can have there.

-----------

I'm not saying that Gruden is the answer. He is actually pretty low on my list of coaches that I would like to see take over. That said, he deserves more credit than many people give him. I wouldn't be upset if he was the guy in charge next year.

[BillTheButcher]

phillygrump, on 30 November 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

No coach has ever won a SUper Bowl with 2 different teams as a head coach.

A new no name hire might be the best thing for this team. These great coaches come from somewhere. Just because a guy has a well known name in college or as an NFL coordinator doesn't mean he translates well to an NFL head coaching position.

Why does everyone assume that it does?

i know.

the guy i want most is chip kelly.

if anyone can find the unknow type its lurie, he did it once, but whats the odds he can do it again? its a gamble.

[SilverChaosVII]

AceofSpades, on 30 November 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

I'm sure it is. I'm sure guys like Cowher, Gruden, & Billick who crave the money and the power wanna go to situations like the Colts from 2002. They were close but needed something else. They don't wanna go into rebuilding projects. Gruden & Billick might because they wanna get back into coaching. Cowher wants the power and if he did it'd have to be with a team where he wouldn't have to do too much to put them over the top.

With this team, I'd prefer for them to go with the unknown who surrounds himself with veteran coaches. To me that's what's important for hiring the unknown head coach. Who does he surround himself with in terms of coaches? The most important thing for the Eagles is that they get back to what worked from 2000-2004. They have to go back to building the core of the team through the draft, with undrafted free agents, and the scouting department doing overtime to put together the best group of homegrown talent. Use FA & trades here and there to add pieces but not centerpieces. That's where the Eagles have gotten in some serious trouble. Well that, and the fact that they have piss poor coaching. Mike Caldwell & Mike Zordich? Seriously?

This is the big thing a lot of people don't consider. I think the staff the head coach chooses is usually more important than the head coach himself.

[knapp_nick]

i just like his "mean face"

[SilverChaosVII]

phillygrump, on 30 November 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

No coach has ever won a SUper Bowl with 2 different teams as a head coach.

Gruden may have if it wasn't for the tuck rule...

(But then again, he probably would have remained in Oakland following that season)

[BillTheButcher]

SilverChaosVII, on 30 November 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Gruden may have if it wasn't for the tuck rule...

(But then again, he probably would have remained in Oakland following that season)

if he won with the raiders he wouldnt of been traded more then likely

[phillygrump]

SilverChaosVII, on 30 November 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

I think a lot of people want Jon Gruden because of the personality. We are all sick of the soft team that we have seen for years under Andy. We want a blue collar, hard nosed, loud, passionate guy. That's Gruden.

He isn't a bad coach like many people make him out to be. That doesn't mean he is great either. I think it's safe to say he is a good coach though. The guy does have a Super Bowl.

People tend to focus on his time at Tampa. He showed up, won the team a Super Bowl and then the team fell apart.

STOP. Pay attention to his time in Oakland. He actually did a very nice job with the Raiders.

His first two years he went 8-8. The next year the team went 12-4 and made it to the AFC Championship Game. They lost to the Ravens (who went on to win the Super Bowl) The following year they went 10-6 and made it to the AFC Championship Game. They lost to the Patriots (who went on to win the Super Bowl) on the tuck rule. Had it not been for that call the Raiders would have very likely won the Super Bowl that year.

Gruden had 2 good seasons while building the team. Then he had 2 runs at a Super Bowl. That's pretty impressive considering the upper management at Oakland and the difficulties that I coach can have there.

-----------

I'm not saying that Gruden is the answer. He is actually pretty low on my list of coaches that I would like to see take over. That said, he deserves more credit than many people give him. I wouldn't be upset if he was the guy in charge next year.

Gruden isn't my first choice, but he is hardly my last either. The only thing that worries me about Gruden is that he can't develop a young QB and that is where the Eagles are right now. When he had Gannon in Oakland he was fine and when he had Brad Johnson in Tampa he was fine, but aside from that lacking ability I like Gruden. If he would come to Philly and bring Kiffin I'd be on board with that. It would be a start in the process of rebuilding.

[AceofSpades]

SilverChaosVII, on 30 November 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

I think a lot of people want Jon Gruden because of the personality. We are all sick of the soft team that we have seen for years under Andy. We want a blue collar, hard nosed, loud, passionate guy. That's Gruden.

He isn't a bad coach like many people make him out to be. That doesn't mean he is great either. I think it's safe to say he is a good coach though. The guy does have a Super Bowl.

People tend to focus on his time at Tampa. He showed up, won the team a Super Bowl and then the team fell apart.

STOP. Pay attention to his time in Oakland. He actually did a very nice job with the Raiders.

His first two years he went 8-8. The next year the team went 12-4 and made it to the AFC Championship Game. They lost to the Ravens (who went on to win the Super Bowl) The following year they went 10-6 and made it to the AFC Championship Game. They lost to the Patriots (who went on to win the Super Bowl) on the tuck rule. Had it not been for that call the Raiders would have very likely won the Super Bowl that year.

Gruden had 2 good seasons while building the team. Then he had 2 runs at a Super Bowl. That's pretty impressive considering the upper management at Oakland and the difficulties that I coach can have there.

-----------

I'm not saying that Gruden is the answer. He is actually pretty low on my list of coaches that I would like to see take over. That said, he deserves more credit than many people give him. I wouldn't be upset if he was the guy in charge next year.

Completely agree. Philly wants that guy they can relate to. They want the coach that they can sense feels the pain of the fan base. They want the coach that understands the city and wants to deliver the Lombardi. The fans could never get that sense with Reid because there always seemed to be a disconnect of sorts.

[AceofSpades]

phillygrump, on 30 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Gruden isn't my first choice, but he is hardly my last either. The only thing that worries me about Gruden is that he can't develop a young QB and that is where the Eagles are right now. When he had Gannon in Oakland he was fine and when he had Brad Johnson in Tampa he was fine, but aside from that lacking ability I like Gruden. If he would come to Philly and bring Kiffin I'd be on board with that. It would be a start in the process of rebuilding.

That's what I'm really worried about. Chris Simms never developed in Tampa and there were other QBs he had that just never panned out. If he gets a good OC and QB coach that'll be what he needs.

[BillTheButcher]

AceofSpades, on 30 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

That's what I'm really worried about. Chris Simms never developed in Tampa and there were other QBs he had that just never panned out. If he gets a good OC and QB coach that'll be what he needs.

thats cause he hurt his spleen. not saying he would of developed tho. he never had anyone worth developing over there.