56 replies to this topic

[surefooted]

Quote

Say Andy did come back in 2013.  He’d likely have Nick Foles as his QB.  I literally cannot imagine any circumstance in which Reid and Vick both return, shy of that being a demand from a terrorist who has nuclear weapons.  And even then I’d have my doubts.
So you’ve got a young QB in Foles.  Maybe the Eagles take a QB with their Top 5 pick.  Either way, you’ve got a young guy running the show.  If the team starts slowly and sits at 2-4 or something like that, the screams for Reid’s head would be deafening.  That’s why Lurie would have to commit to him for a minimum of 3 years.  It would give Reid the chance to do things with long term vision.  Can you imagine the outcry if Lurie handed Reid a 3-year extension?  That would be insane.
If Reid came back, he’d have to replace a lot of the staff.  Jim Washburn is gone and Tommy Brasher is 72 so he’s not your long term answer.  Todd Bowles did a solid job as DBs coach, but there are no guarantees he’d stick around.  RBs coach Ted Williams will turn 70 next November.  Does he retire?  Howard Mudd is out as OL coach.  Bobby April is likely done as STs coach.  The team desperately needs a veteran DC.
Does Lurie trust Reid to make all these changes?  I doubt it.

http://igglesblitz.c...nt-coming-back/

[ChimpKelly]

He immediately writes off any chance of Vick returning. If Andy comes back, I don't think its impossible that Vick will be right there with him.

That said, I don't think Andy will be back anyway. So say bye bye to them both.

[The_Talon]

I think a lot of it depends on what happens over the course of the next few weeks. If AR shows progress with young players, and Foles progresses as well, and the defense starts playing better football now that the stupid Wide 9 is gone (I'm sure it's a fine system when used on a situational basis) under Bowles, there's no reason to NOT bring AR back.

Vick, on the other hand, God bless him, but I don't think he's got it anymore. This season wasn't a fair shake for him considering we have an awful, injury depleted offensive line, and I can't help but believe that if Marty broke down the offense a bit earlier and implemented a sense of balance (as they do every time the scrambling QB's are injured) he would have had a better season. But I just don't think he's the long term answer. At this point I'm willing to run with Foles, Trent Edwards, and someone else, either via FA or the draft.

[Iron_Eagle_04]

the legitimate justification for keeping Andy Reid has run out.   I appreciate the good years he gave us,  I wish him well,   and I'd certainly never make personal attacks on him like some do,   but its clearly time to go in another direction.

If Lurie keeps him,  he is out of touch with reality and stuck in 2004.  This team is just going nowhere under him anymore and my God he can't coach here forever.

[aziatic77]

The_Talon, on 05 December 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I think a lot of it depends on what happens over the course of the next few weeks. If AR shows progress with young players, and Foles progresses as well, and the defense starts playing better football now that the stupid Wide 9 is gone (I'm sure it's a fine system when used on a situational basis) under Bowles, there's no reason to NOT bring AR back

I think the ship already sailed on this, because they were crap when they had all of their starters healthy. The record was was 3-6 (maybe 3-7) before everyone starting getting hurt. How many times can a coach beg for one more chance cause "i have these young guys". Every coach, good and bad has young guys on the roster, and they get fired if they are bad coaches. We can't keep using all these olive branches like young players, injuries, etc. when other coaches get fired under the same circumstances.

[NocturnalPoisoning]

There is a 0% chance that Reid comes back. We've won three games by four points. This team could easily be 0-12. Save Henery, literally nobody has shown improvement over 2011, which is just amazing. Most of the rookies look good- that's about the only positive you can point to.

[biglou22]

phillyphan754, on 05 December 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

He immediately writes off any chance of Vick returning. If Andy comes back, I don't think its impossible that Vick will be right there with him.

That said, I don't think Andy will be back anyway. So say bye bye to them both.

1st I want to mention 2 silly statements in Lawlors column.
1 - how the hell can he say that Bowles did a nice job with the DBs. Most of them have been a debacle for most of the year.
Seriously. You have got to be kidding me.
2 - what the hell college QBs is he watching thinking that any of them are top 5 talents.
Come on Tom. You're better then that.

Now onto a response to you sir.
Like you,,,, I doubt very much Reid comes back. But like I have said in other posts, depending on who was responsible for who there is that slight chance Reid is back.

Just look at these few things for reasons why Reid COULD come back:
**Unfortunately as great of moves that all those free agent players were in almost EVERY FANS eyes (not mine, I thought it was dumb then and I stick with it that it was dumb )and the goofy national media at the time they were made,, the fact is for the most part they have ALL been a complete failure. The question is who brought all or most of them in ???? If it wasn't Reid then he is off the hook. Though I happen to believe most were his decisions.
**Again, unfortunately as great as all those outside coaches that almost EVERY FAN loved at the time that were brought in,,,,,, who brought them in ??? If it wasn't mostly Reid then he is off the hook again.
**If,IF Reid was not FULLY responsible for bringing in all those useless free agents and debacles known as GREAT coaches and Lurie looks at the injuries this team has had, then yes Reid COULD come back.

Now don't get me wrong. I think it is time for Reid to go and I am almost certain he will be gone. I'm just pointing out that there is a POSSIBILITY because of circumstances that Reid could be back.

The 1 thing I hope is that Lurie takes his time and due diligence in finding the right coach. When he finally decided on Reid (which was obviously the right choice) it was after almost 1 1/2 year search. Hopefully, and I assume since Lurie is such a great business guy that he didn't just start looking for a new coach a couple of weeks ago. I would hate like hell to think Lurie and company only took about 3 months to search for a new coach.
hopefully he started this process last year when he had some doubts about keeping Reid for this year.

[odin8888]

Or Reid rights the ship on defense either with new coach, and players straighten up limiting opposing teams to < 13 points per game... lol

, Vick is let go after the season or accepts a reduced contract and backup role... lol

Or ... I think I am stuck on 1 & 2 above.. lol

[downsoufeagleluva]

This quote is full of flaws, and it makes me wonder if Lawlor didnt bump his head along with Vick because he is usually a lot more insightful than this.

The real question that most intelligent fans will state is not so much whether he stays or goes,but if he stays, what is his actual role?  

One can argue that much of Reid's problems here involve talent evaluation.  It seems to be very good for running backs, tight ends, and to some extent, QBs, and not very good for linemen, linebackers and safeties.

The biggest shock to me wouldnt be if Andy returned, but if Marty comes back with him.  I could totally see Lurie keeping Reid around but taking the offensive playcalling completely out of his hands and giving it to someone competent.  If Marty is still here next year, I may be done as an Eagles fan....and Im very serious about that.

[greend]

Tommy Lawlor isn't always right

[RastaPasta]

Tommy Lawlor is right

[gibsonplyer]

Reid's biggest issue in recent years has been that he no longer has knowledge of young talented coaches to replenish his staff with.  Now once again we're looking at a big coaching overhaul and there is no reason to put him in charge of that again.

Plus like Tommy said this offense now needs to run through Brown and McCoy and Reid hasn't shown that capability.  Tye reason why I like McCoy out of Denver is his history of adjusting to his players so he should be able to come in and design an offense based around our backs as well as adjust it as we develop other players down the road.

[forevereagles]

The_Talon, on 05 December 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I think a lot of it depends on what happens over the course of the next few weeks. If AR shows progress with young players, and Foles progresses as well, and the defense starts playing better football now that the stupid Wide 9 is gone (I'm sure it's a fine system when used on a situational basis) under Bowles, there's no reason to NOT bring AR back.

Vick, on the other hand, God bless him, but I don't think he's got it anymore. This season wasn't a fair shake for him considering we have an awful, injury depleted offensive line, and I can't help but believe that if Marty broke down the offense a bit earlier and implemented a sense of balance (as they do every time the scrambling QB's are injured) he would have had a better season. But I just don't think he's the long term answer. At this point I'm willing to run with Foles, Trent Edwards, and someone else, either via FA or the draft.

If Reid is retained, it is a certainty that  Vick will be back as well. I've said this many a time. Vick and Reid are connected at the hip. Which means that Vick would again be  his starting QB. And the beat would go on, like it has for the last three seasons. Lurie has to realize this.

[NOTW]

biglou22, on 05 December 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

1st I want to mention 2 silly statements in Lawlors column.
1 - how the hell can he say that Bowles did a nice job with the DBs. Most of them have been a debacle for most of the year.
Seriously. You have got to be kidding me.
2 - what the hell college QBs is he watching thinking that any of them are top 5 talents.
Come on Tom. You're better then that.

Now onto a response to you sir.
Like you,,,, I doubt very much Reid comes back. But like I have said in other posts, depending on who was responsible for who there is that slight chance Reid is back.

Just look at these few things for reasons why Reid COULD come back:
**Unfortunately as great of moves that all those free agent players were in almost EVERY FANS eyes (not mine, I thought it was dumb then and I stick with it that it was dumb )and the goofy national media at the time they were made,, the fact is for the most part they have ALL been a complete failure. The question is who brought all or most of them in ???? If it wasn't Reid then he is off the hook. Though I happen to believe most were his decisions.
**Again, unfortunately as great as all those outside coaches that almost EVERY FAN loved at the time that were brought in,,,,,, who brought them in ??? If it wasn't mostly Reid then he is off the hook again.
**If,IF Reid was not FULLY responsible for bringing in all those useless free agents and debacles known as GREAT coaches and Lurie looks at the injuries this team has had, then yes Reid COULD come back.

Now don't get me wrong. I think it is time for Reid to go and I am almost certain he will be gone. I'm just pointing out that there is a POSSIBILITY because of circumstances that Reid could be back.

The 1 thing I hope is that Lurie takes his time and due diligence in finding the right coach. When he finally decided on Reid (which was obviously the right choice) it was after almost 1 1/2 year search. Hopefully, and I assume since Lurie is such a great business guy that he didn't just start looking for a new coach a couple of weeks ago. I would hate like hell to think Lurie and company only took about 3 months to search for a new coach.
hopefully he started this process last year when he had some doubts about keeping Reid for this year.

Hi lou, good post.  I tend to agree especially about the coaches, however...

They dug themselves in a hole because of HORRID drafting especially on defense.  Throughout the 2010 season it was a miracle they won games given how bad the defense was.  They were in desperate need of help.  The O line was also a mess.  With that many holes, some had to be filled in FA.

They had cap room and they get excited about bringing in big names.  At the time, Nnamdi, DRC, Babin and Jenkins (the 4 big names brought in) were proven talent to bring in.  Those seemed like good moves to most people.  Landri also was a good move.  The rest were them getting too excited about signing "names."  Obviously, hiring a D line coach before the DC is backwards.

What's funny is many fans want the Eagles to hire a "name" head coach, a popular name they know and feel comfortable with.  But that's what they did with hiring Mudd and Washburn and those moves didn't work out.  Reid figured hire some big time name coaches to coach their units, get some free agents who are of a higher pedigree and they will take care of themselves and it will be easier on Castillo.  He thought the parts of 2010 where the offense was great were going to equal domination in 2011, despite the fact that toward the end of 2010 the offense was getting worse, especially Vick.

What this team needs is an complete overhaul in the front office and coaching staff.  I don't think they need to get rid of that many players, I think a lot of them could perform better given a fresh opportunity and motivation.  Some obviously need to go.

But they need to build the franchise through the right philosophies and through the draft and hire talented coaches who are ready to make a name for themselves, not guys who have a name and are living off their past success but not able to replicate it.

[Intel Division]

greend, on 05 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Tommy Lawlor isn't always right

He's a speculating fan like the rest of us.

[aman88]

lost him when he said todd bowles did a solid job at anything.

[dawk1977]

downsoufeagleluva, on 05 December 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

This quote is full of flaws, and it makes me wonder if Lawlor didnt bump his head along with Vick because he is usually a lot more insightful than this.

The real question that most intelligent fans will state is not so much whether he stays or goes,but if he stays, what is his actual role?  

One can argue that much of Reid's problems here involve talent evaluation.  It seems to be very good for running backs, tight ends, and to some extent, QBs, and not very good for linemen, linebackers and safeties.

The biggest shock to me wouldnt be if Andy returned, but if Marty comes back with him.  I could totally see Lurie keeping Reid around but taking the offensive playcalling completely out of his hands and giving it to someone competent.  If Marty is still here next year, I may be done as an Eagles fan....and Im very serious about that.

Marty, Marty, marty...  If he comes back alot of eagles fans will tune out.  I am right there with you.

[NoDecaf]

TL makes sense. Andy wont want to play "wait and see" with ONE year left on his contract. He would want an extension, more than likely, immediately. Would Jeff want to extend him now for 3 years to try and right this ship? I think no.

[Jake knows]

aziatic77, on 05 December 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

I think the ship already sailed on this, because they were crap when they had all of their starters healthy. The record was was 3-6 (maybe 3-7) before everyone starting getting hurt. How many times can a coach beg for one more chance cause "i have these young guys". Every coach, good and bad has young guys on the roster, and they get fired if they are bad coaches. We can't keep using all these olive branches like young players, injuries, etc. when other coaches get fired under the same circumstances.

OK, lets start with this.......Jason Peters.....probably a top 3 tackle in the NFL.....before the season

[Runtherock]

Tommy has zero clue, and no one but Jeffrey Lurie does either. The last few years have proven ANYTHING is possible, and if you don't realize that you haven't been paying attention.

[biglou22]

Runtherock, on 05 December 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Tommy has zero clue, and no one but Jeffrey Lurie does either. The last few years have proven ANYTHING is possible, and if you don't realize that you haven't been paying attention.

Dead on.

[Hey Suess]

Intel Division, on 05 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

He's a speculating fan like the rest of us.

He's a little more "plugged in" than you and I are.

[skipsharp]

The_Talon, on 05 December 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I think a lot of it depends on what happens over the course of the next few weeks. If AR shows progress with young players, and Foles progresses as well, and the defense starts playing better football now that the stupid Wide 9 is gone (I'm sure it's a fine system when used on a situational basis) under Bowles, there's no reason to NOT bring AR back.

Vick, on the other hand, God bless him, but I don't think he's got it anymore. This season wasn't a fair shake for him considering we have an awful, injury depleted offensive line, and I can't help but believe that if Marty broke down the offense a bit earlier and implemented a sense of balance (as they do every time the scrambling QB's are injured) he would have had a better season. But I just don't think he's the long term answer. At this point I'm willing to run with Foles, Trent Edwards, and someone else, either via FA or the draft.

There's that fools gold thing again.

[time2rock]

greend, on 05 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Tommy Lawlor isn't always right

Yeah but he damn well better be right this time.

[Runtherock]

Hey Suess, on 05 December 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

He's a little more "plugged in" than you and I are.

No man, he's not. No one knows but Lurie, and he may not know yet. Think about it, if you're Howie and you see the change that's gone down recently, are you confident you keep your job? The man's wife is out. Joe Banner is out. One exec, coach, player after another...gone. No one knows, not the talking heads, not the beat guys, not Tommy Freaking Lawlor. Lurie may know, maybe, but if he does he isn't telling. Everyone else is just filling print.

[Hey Suess]

Runtherock, on 05 December 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

No man, he's not. No one knows but Lurie, and he may not know yet. Think about it, if you're Howie and you see the change that's gone down recently, are you confident you keep your job? The man's wife is out. Joe Banner is out. One exec, coach, player after another...gone. No one knows, not the talking heads, not the beat guys, not Tommy Freaking Lawlor. Lurie may know, maybe, but if he does he isn't telling. Everyone else is just filling print.

Fair enough to say.
Equally fair to say that the people that actually matter in this equation already know their fate.

Either scenario put aside, Lawlor still has more insight (about the team) than the average poster on the EMB.

[skipsharp]

Runtherock, on 05 December 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

No man, he's not. No one knows but Lurie, and he may not know yet. Think about it, if you're Howie and you see the change that's gone down recently, are you confident you keep your job? The man's wife is out. Joe Banner is out. One exec, coach, player after another...gone. No one knows, not the talking heads, not the beat guys, not Tommy Freaking Lawlor. Lurie may know, maybe, but if he does he isn't telling. Everyone else is just filling print.

This.
We will not know until January. Anybody can make a good case one way or another but one man holds all of the cards here and he is not talking.

[Phila.:chip]

The_Talon, on 05 December 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I think a lot of it depends on what happens over the course of the next few weeks. If AR shows progress with young players, and Foles progresses as well, and the defense starts playing better football now that the stupid Wide 9 is gone (I'm sure it's a fine system when used on a situational basis) under Bowles, there's no reason to NOT bring AR back.

Vick, on the other hand, God bless him, but I don't think he's got it anymore. This season wasn't a fair shake for him considering we have an awful, injury depleted offensive line, and I can't help but believe that if Marty broke down the offense a bit earlier and implemented a sense of balance (as they do every time the scrambling QB's are injured) he would have had a better season. But I just don't think he's the long term answer. At this point I'm willing to run with Foles, Trent Edwards, and someone else, either via FA or the draft.

He doesn't have to be the long term answer to come back next year. The QB draft class is weak and the FA pool is dry. Whoever is calling the shots on the new staff may see fit to keep Vick, while still developing Foles, if Foles doesn't impress him with the games he's played this season.Plus, we can always draft another QB in the 2014 draft. We're getting three of our lineman back on the Oline. We'll have two weapons in the back field and speed on the outside. On defense, we need Safeties, corners, and a Will. It's possible we could fill a good portion of those needs in FA and the draft.

[pgcd3]

Lurie already played the I gave it a lot of thought and I think Andy gives us the best chance card. I just get see him doing that again. Especially since the defense is still in shambles.

I agree with biglou on the Bwoles thing. I had high hopes for him and maybe it's just the two guys are prima donnas but it's hard to argue that he's done a good job. He hasn't. Like I said maybe it was an impossible task given the team makeup but the results speak for themselves.

[Vick 2 JMac]

BigLou,  Andy Reid is the Head Coach.  He has a final say in everything and letting someone else bring in bad coaches and players is just as bad as bringing them in yourself.  Lurie respects Andy's word over Roseman's seeing that Andy has been in the league for over a decade and has had success while Roseman is a newbie.  If Andy wanted a different coach he would have got him.  Your argument is invalid.