31 replies to this topic

[Eaglesdude55]

That is why the eagles need to run the ball as much as they can in 2013 and onward.

The NFL is a cyclical league: the offense finds a new way to exploit the defense or vise versa. Once the other side figures out a way to stop what the other side is doing, the original side finds a new way to exploit that. And that cycle just keeps going and going pretty much.

By the mid 2000's, offenses realized that passing was the way to go by beating the run stopping, big-bodied defenses of the past. What did that force the defenses to do? Get faster and smaller to be able to cover the extra WR/TE on the field.

So where does that leave us? The start of a new cycle. How do you beat fast, small athletic defensives? How do you keep the likes of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning off the field so they don't light you up? Line the defense up wide and run all over them to control the clock. Chip Kelly is getting famous for running this offense in Oregon these days.

Granted, I could be completely wrong in my assessment, but doesn't it just make sense for the eagles to play to their strengths and run ball?

[Eagle_69]

you should be a HC bro.

[Eaglesdude55]

Thanks bro :)

[eglz1]

Except the NFL made rule changes after 2004 to encourage more passing.  If the game is too boring - not fast enough i.e. too many run plays, they can change the rules again.

[FanSinceWayBack]

Eaglesdude55, on 06 December 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

That is why the eagles need to run the ball as much as they can in 2013 and onward.

The NFL is a cyclical league: the offense finds a new way to exploit the defense or vise versa. Once the other side figures out a way to stop what the other side is doing, the original side finds a new way to exploit that. And that cycle just keeps going and going pretty much.

Your stating the obvious to most. Knowing what to do is 1 thing. Knowing how to do it is another. Plus theres ALOT of teams/players that you couldnt just line up and run on them. Stopping the run is far far far less complex than wondering where 5 routes are about to be ran. A good balance is key, unless you have a BBRM

[hpreagles]

I would love to see the Eagles take this approach and we have a pair of stud running backs to do it.  I want to see a run oriented,  physical team next year who lines up and dares the DE to stop them.

[time2rock]

hpreagles, on 06 December 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

I would love to see the Eagles take this approach and we have a pair of stud running backs to do it.  I want to see a run oriented,  physical team next year who lines up and dares the DE to stop them.

Triple dog dare even.

[GoBirds2010]

I follow these trends.

When the Eagles were throwing the ball they weren't doing nothing different then what good teams did. Throw the ball. I never got the issue with Eagle fans on that. It was the way of the NFL.

Now though, you have teams like SF, Seattle and Houston running the ball and focus on defense.

Which is the way the NFL will now trend to.

Remember the NFL is a copycat league.

[biglou22]

All I know is the league better do something. Because to me it is almost unwatchable. Literally the worst football across the league I have ever seen.
I understand that it has been getting worse and worse each year over the last 4-5-6 years.But my god is it terrible.

Between the coaches screaming on the sidelines all game long looking like idiots, the players crying for penalties every play, the horrendous tackling and blocking across the league, the silly celebrations becuase you made a friggen tackle and jst poor play, the league to me has now become an after thought on Sundays.

And no it's because of the Eagles. The entire league stinks.

[IBYCFOTA]

I feel like pretty much all of the teams that have success with a strong running attack do it with the aid of a great defense. SF / Baltimore come to mind here.  We have the running game, the defense not so much. It's difficult to play a conservative ground game and win games if you can't rely on your defense to make stops for you.

[time2rock]

biglou22, on 06 December 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

All I know is the league better do something. Because to me it is almost unwatchable. Literally the worst football across the league I have ever seen.
I understand that it has been getting worse and worse each year over the last 4-5-6 years.But my god is it terrible.

Between the coaches screaming on the sidelines all game long looking like idiots, the players crying for penalties every play, the horrendous tackling and blocking across the league, the silly celebrations becuase you made a friggen tackle and jst poor play, the league to me has now become an after thought on Sundays.

And no it's because of the Eagles. The entire league stinks.

That really is annoying.

Same with the celebrations - it's especially annoying when their team is losing by 20 points.

[vic92353]

If the Eagles get a real coach then maybe we will see some professional Football games.  Andy Reid does not beleive that running the Football is an important part of winning Football games until the season is over.  Good ole Andy Reid.  

[odin8888]

A flaw in your logic is the NFL rules that greatly favor offenses over defenses....


I vote to even the rules for both sides of the ball!


A diverse offense and powerful run and pass attack is optimal, I would like bigger better receivers and TE

[joespadaro]

To be a team that heavily relies on the run would be fine if we had a good defense, but we dont.

[SilverChaosVII]

odin8888, on 06 December 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

I vote to even the rules for both sides of the ball!

This doesn't appeal to the casual fan though, so the NFL won't do it.

They want to see final scores of 45-42 settled in overtime where both teams put up 600 yards of offense.

Most real football fans hate that, but there are a lot more casual fans out there that would hate to see a 7-6 final score in an old fashion slug fest.

[CalgaryFan77]

I think the Eagles need to run the ball in 2013 because we have two of the best running backs.  The best run blocking left tackle in football. One of the best run blocking centres in football and a quarterback who is still a long way away from proving to be a franchise player.  If we had Andrew Luck at QB and some scrubs at running back, I would have very different opinions, the cyclical nature of the NFL has nothing to do with it.

[odin8888]

SilverChaosVII, on 06 December 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

This doesn't appeal to the casual fan though, so the NFL won't do it.

They want to see final scores of 45-42 settled in overtime where both teams put up 600 yards of offense.

Most real football fans hate that, but there are a lot more casual fans out there that would hate to see a 7-6 final score in an old fashion slug fest.

Thank you, I take that as a compliment!!'


To love football is to love defense...offense is pretty, but defense is the ish!!!!  If you love a 45 to 42 score, you should just go watch basketball!!!

[cmart102]

San Fran and Houston are probably the two best teams in the league and they're both completely balanced.

[jonnyeagles12]

Great post btw.

Can people stop moaning about the rule changes they are what they are. Great defenses still exist.

[Blitz24]

Eaglesdude55, on 06 December 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

That is why the eagles need to run the ball as much as they can in 2013 and onward.

The NFL is a cyclical league: the offense finds a new way to exploit the defense or vise versa. Once the other side figures out a way to stop what the other side is doing, the original side finds a new way to exploit that. And that cycle just keeps going and going pretty much.

By the mid 2000's, offenses realized that passing was the way to go by beating the run stopping, big-bodied defenses of the past. What did that force the defenses to do? Get faster and smaller to be able to cover the extra WR/TE on the field.

So where does that leave us? The start of a new cycle. How do you beat fast, small athletic defensives? How do you keep the likes of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning off the field so they don't light you up? Line the defense up wide and run all over them to control the clock. Chip Kelly is getting famous for running this offense in Oregon these days.

Granted, I could be completely wrong in my assessment, but doesn't it just make sense for the eagles to play to their strengths and run ball?

Finally, somebody with a brain! At least run the ball more next season while Foles or some other rookie/free agent develops.

[Westyis2Underrated]

Decent post (most educated fans realized this, but that's not TATE, so yeah, good post).  I agree.  I've been saying this since Peyton, Rodgers, and Brees started winning Super Bowls.  Every team out there started drafting fast, small linebackers and defensive linemen.  Guys who used to be 3rd down specialists or nickel players are now full time starters.  The league is asking to be run all over.  The success of the 49ers, Texans, and Ravens (especially with how bad the defense has been this year) can't be ignored.  I agree with other posters saying that the defense is the key though.  You can't run if you're losing big in the first or second quarter.  But the longer you can go into the game with the run being a threat on first down, the better.  If you make it to the 4th quarter and your still running, the opposing defense is likely way more gassed than your own and you have a way better sense of balance.  Another thing that I believe would be necessary for this approach to work would be more size from our recievers.  I'd say one larger reciever and maybe even a better TE.  One who can work the middle of the field but really excells with blocking.  If I were building a team this would basically be my blueprint.  Pretty similar to the Texans build IMO.  Control the middle of the field, then work your way out using balance as your main weapon.

I'm not really sure about who I want the next head coach to be, but something tells me Chip Kelly feels the same way about the NFL.  I really think he would utilize alot of single and split back formations and run the ball at a spread out defense.

[CaliEagle]

Eaglesdude55, on 06 December 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

That is why the eagles need to run the ball as much as they can in 2013 and onward.

The NFL is a cyclical league: the offense finds a new way to exploit the defense or vise versa. Once the other side figures out a way to stop what the other side is doing, the original side finds a new way to exploit that. And that cycle just keeps going and going pretty much.

By the mid 2000's, offenses realized that passing was the way to go by beating the run stopping, big-bodied defenses of the past. What did that force the defenses to do? Get faster and smaller to be able to cover the extra WR/TE on the field.

So where does that leave us? The start of a new cycle. How do you beat fast, small athletic defensives? How do you keep the likes of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning off the field so they don't light you up? Line the defense up wide and run all over them to control the clock. Chip Kelly is getting famous for running this offense in Oregon these days.

Granted, I could be completely wrong in my assessment, but doesn't it just make sense for the eagles to play to their strengths and run ball?

I agree, but not to the point where we are running the ball 70% of the time. I don't want this team to go the complete opposite of Andy's philosophy. But, with Brown and McCoy, it would make sense to use ball control next year to help a young QB out.  Plus, the defense gets more time to rest.  This team/organization needs to bring back physicality and running the ball more is part of that equation.

[Eagles3785]

I agree with OP BUT you forgot to mention one thing:

You need RB's to run the ball, that being said all the Fing idiots that want to trade McCoy OR B Brown should stfu and stick to making those moves on Madden...

A running game is going to help Foles out a great deal, and having 2 potential top tier RB's is important

[PickFoles]

People called me an idiot for suggesting that we switch to a run-first offense in my 10 step plan for returning to the playoffs..

[Eaglesdude55]

No ones telling the eagles  (or any team for that matter) to run excessively. But to run 55-60% of the time will not only manage the clock, but also give your defense the proper time it needs to rest as well as game plan for the opposing offense.

I mean when it really comes down to it, when you have two running backs who can bust a 20+ yard run on any given play, I want those guys to get the ball as much as possible.

[eaglesboy12]

IBYCFOTA, on 06 December 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

I feel like pretty much all of the teams that have success with a strong running attack do it with the aid of a great defense. SF / Baltimore come to mind here.  We have the running game, the defense not so much. It's difficult to play a conservative ground game and win games if you can't rely on your defense to make stops for you.

Right here folks

[NOTW]

biglou22, on 06 December 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

All I know is the league better do something. Because to me it is almost unwatchable. Literally the worst football across the league I have ever seen.
I understand that it has been getting worse and worse each year over the last 4-5-6 years.But my god is it terrible.

Between the coaches screaming on the sidelines all game long looking like idiots, the players crying for penalties every play, the horrendous tackling and blocking across the league, the silly celebrations becuase you made a friggen tackle and jst poor play, the league to me has now become an after thought on Sundays.

And no it's because of the Eagles. The entire league stinks.

I agree.  The rules make it impossible for anyone in the secondary to play defense.  Still, EVERY pass play the WR stands there throwing his hands up looking for a flag.  Every pass play, it's annoying.  And getting a 1st down is common enough that it does not require a huge celebration.

It's part of the me-first, showy entitlement that younger people (I'm 35 btw) grow up with now.  Celebrate everything, trophies for participation, don't be critical or tell someone they are wrong or need to improve.  That's why these young players want the fans to worship them every Sunday even when they stink.

[NOTW]

Eaglesdude55, on 06 December 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

No ones telling the eagles  (or any team for that matter) to run excessively. But to run 55-60% of the time will not only manage the clock, but also give your defense the proper time it needs to rest as well as game plan for the opposing offense.

I mean when it really comes down to it, when you have two running backs who can bust a 20+ yard run on any given play, I want those guys to get the ball as much as possible.

It's about balance.

The whole "It's a passing league" thing is overblown.  People forget that in order to be a team that passes most of the time.........you need a great QB.  You need an accurate pocket passer who reads defenses well, adjusts to the blitz, calls the right audibles for what the defense is showing, doesn't look at only one WR the whole time but fools the defense, picks apart the secondary, and also can make the minor adjustments in the pocket like taking a small half step forward away from a sack and complete a throw instead of trying to run 15 yards sideline to sideline and do a whole lot of nothing to get free only to be sacked or throw an interception.

Some scrambling QBs can make that happen like Donovan used to, Big Ben, Eli, Aaron Rodgers, RG3.

Teams that don't have the top QBs in the league have always run the ball and had more balance.  It's just that the league has some big stars at QB right now with Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Eli, Big Ben.  Passing is more fun for casual fans to watch and people always gravitate to the QB over other positions.

The 49ers, Ravens, Texans and some other teams are running more balanced offenses and winning.  You're right, that's the next model.

But it doesn't have to be about trends.  Pass happy, wildcat, spread offense, wide-9, Tampa 2, focus on pass rush only, gimmicks, Patriots use of two TEs...

Just get the fundamentals right.  Be able to execute running and passing plays and use them where appropriate.  if you're playing a team with a horrible secondary and a tough run defense, pass more.  If the opposite, run more.

If your QB is injury prone, gets hit and injured a lot, throws INTs and the defense breaks down in the 4th quarter....running the ball with a lead helps solve all that.

You can still pass 60-65% of the time or even 70% if it's working and you're not turning the ball over and your defense is playing well.  But in the right SITUATIONS you still need to run the ball.

And if you don't run the ball much, stop running play action on first down.  It's embarassing.

[Eagles3785]

IBYCFOTA, on 06 December 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

I feel like pretty much all of the teams that have success with a strong running attack do it with the aid of a great defense. SF / Baltimore come to mind here.  We have the running game, the defense not so much. It's difficult to play a conservative ground game and win games if you can't rely on your defense to make stops for you.

makes sense BUT if you run the ball it also keeps your horrible D off the field...If a team gets 12 possessions a game and scores on 10 drives thats a lot of points...however if you run the ball and they only get 8 possessions and score on 6 it's not as many points (don't get me wrong thats still bad)

Bottom line is if the opposing O doesn't have the ball they can't score and the D has to make less stops AND are well rested when they do play

[baldbird]

PickFoles, on 06 December 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

People called me an idiot for suggesting that we switch to a run-first offense in my 10 step plan for returning to the playoffs..

I dont think it was due to your 10 step plan lol