55 replies to this topic

[Pegger]

I just don't get it. People feel he's personally attacking their NFL when the truth is that he's the one ultimately responsible for protecting it. Here's some info about the NFL he stepped into:

1 - Former president Paul Tagliabue signed a CBA on his way out that greatly favored the players and ownership group demanded some cuts.
2 - NFL players were getting a 'thugish' image for narcotics possession, crime and being arrested.
3 - There was a mounting class action law suit from former players who require health benefits from injuries sustained while playing.
4 - The pure violence of the game was effecting it's ability to grow (former and current players not letting their kids play football).

What has he done?

1 - Hammered out a 10 year CBA with zero regular season games missed (NHL, NBA and MLB should take note).
2 - Made players accountable for protecting the image of the league and fining them when they step out of line.
3 - As a part of the CBA they have worked former players into the revenue mix.
4 - Reduced many of the high impact moments of the game and have started a campaign to grow awareness on what the NFL is doing to protect it's players.


The NFL has went through many changes in it's existence. Look at any NFL Films highlights and you see some crazy stuff. people using an arm cast as a club, horrible face mask tackles, etc... The changes in the NFL are consistent with the ones in any business sector with respect to compliance or health guidelines. As our society we change our beliefs as we fully learn the negative ramifications of an action. The Romans use to pit slave agaisnt animals as they cheered for blood. Currently in Spain you can see an individual slowly kill a bull by stabbing it's back 10+ times. The NFL, like all industries, has to adapt to what society wants and unfortunately Goodell has the job of making those changes for the NFL.

The hate for Goodell really does puzzle me. Anyway, haters come on in. Voice why you hate Goodell so much. Is it that he has too much power? Do you always just hate authority? Did he steal your girlfriend? Seriously, what are the larger issues that you hate about the guy.

[BDAWK_4EVER]

His fining system is idiotic.He fines players like .1% of what they make, like it's supposed to deter them. What's the highest fine he's given out, maybe 60k to James Harrison? He makes like 7 mil a year wtf is 60k going to do? I don't hate the guy, but his "punishment" for players is beyond stupid.

[PickFoles]

***Waits for a bunch of fat old men to enter this thread and complain about how, back in their day, they used to play football barefooted on field of broken glass with a jagged, lead-painted rock instead of a leather ball.***



"Today's NFL players are a bunch of namby pamby wusses!" - Random balding old man who played flag football for 3/4 of a season back when he was 15.

[Pegger]

BDAWK_4EVER, on 07 December 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

His fining system is idiotic.He fines players like .1% of what they make, like it's supposed to deter them. What's the highest fine he's given out, maybe 60k to James Harrison? He makes like 7 mil a year wtf is 60k going to do? I don't hate the guy, but his "punishment" for players is beyond stupid.

When looking at money earned Harrison is more the exception to the rule, not the norm. I'm guessing the average salary is around $1.5M/year. After tax the player pockets about half of that, so now they earn $750,000. That $30K penalty is around 4% of their income. It's even worse for rookies. Let's look at our second round pick Mychal Kendricks. His salary this year is $390,000 (before tax). For him to get a $30K fine once, twice or three times in a season you can see how that greatly cuts into his earnings. That number becomes way worse when you consider the average players career is only 3.5 years long. There have been some examples where a low round rookie got a fine that equaled to more than a game cheque.

For your Harrison type players if they are reoccuring penalties then suspending them for a game works best. Using the $7M Harrison as an example that one game suspension would cost him $473,500. Even for him that's not laughing matter.

Personally I think the amounts are about right. Repeat offenders move into some high dollar fine territory, which is the way you want the system to be.

[Pegger]

PickFoles, on 07 December 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

***Waits for a bunch of fat old men to enter this thread and complain about how, back in their day, they used to play football barefooted on field of broken glass with a jagged, lead-painted rock instead of a leather ball.***



"Today's NFL players are a bunch of namby pamby wusses!" - Random balding old man who played flag football for 3/4 of a season back when he was 15.

I love it when they complain about how much the current players are wusses only to follow up with a complaint about how their back hurts, knees are shot or can't remember like they used to.

[NCTANK]

i not against change. im not against safety. im not against honest efforts to rethink, retool, redo.

what i am against is lawyer-speak garbage that is so radical, it would change the inherent being of the game we all love.

on one hand he speaks of changes, all in the name of "safety". ok, i get that. but why? is it for the sake of the players? think about it. in day and time where helemts are flying off almost every other play due to the amount of hair on their heads, we get the, "you gotta sit out a play if you get your helmet knocked off rule". thats good. now get back out there and keep getting your helmet knocked off. or the fact that players are on the field with no knee pads, thigh pads, hip pads, butt pads and in some cases no mouthpiece. thats good too. all about the players, we are. lets not forget the fact that he wants to add two more games to the 16 game regular season. another safety implementation?

lets get real. he is, first and foremost, an owners commish. its about money. its about manipulating the appearance of safety measures. its about protecting the owners.

go ahead with the name calling if thats what you gotta do. i can handle it.

[Gmen4ever]

NCTANK, on 07 December 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

i not against change. im not against safety. im not against honest efforts to rethink, retool, redo.

what i am against is lawyer-speak garbage that is so radical, it would change the inherent being of the game we all love.

on one hand he speaks of changes, all in the name of "safety". ok, i get that. but why? is it for the sake of the players? think about it. in day and time where helemts are flying off almost every other play due to the amount of hair on their heads, we get the, "you gotta sit out a play if you get your helmet knocked off rule". thats good. now get back out there and keep getting your helmet knocked off. or the fact that players are on the field with no knee pads, thigh pads, hip pads, butt pads and in some cases no mouthpiece. thats good too. all about the players, we are. lets not forget the fact that he wants to add two more games to the 16 game regular season. another safety implementation?

lets get real. he is, first and foremost, an owners commish. its about money. its about manipulating the appearance of safety measures. its about protecting the owners.

go ahead with the name calling if thats what you gotta do. i can handle it.

This is precisely how I feel. Safety is great, and I agree that it should be paramount to such a violent sport. However, a lot of people just aren't buying him. His real motivation, at least to me, appears to be nothing but more money. Yes, it's a business, and its his job to make maximum profits for the NFL, but at the same time, he's changing the game so much, and taking little elements out of it that make it the game that millions have loved for lifetimes. Its not unwatchable, but it sure does look a little strange at times, not to mention some of these changes actually make it more dangerous for defenders, since hitting a guy the 'wrong way' can cost him a serious fine and possibly a serious injury.

I dont hate Goodell, but I'm certainly not his biggest fan. There are times when he comes off as nothing but a damn snake oil salesman.

[CMPunk]

My only issues with him is allowing training camp to be shortened, lessening the quality of football. You see more mistakes nowdays.

And the fact that he took away celebrations. While some fat old men on the EMB might thinks its too flashy and unnecessary, a lot of younger people used to find it entertaining.

[sirvalence]

Pegger, on 07 December 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

4 - Reduced many of the high impact moments of the game and have started a campaign to grow awareness on what the NFL is doing to protect it's players.

you forgot to put with this that he his turning NFL football in to flag football

[Pegger]

NCTANK, on 07 December 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

lets get real. he is, first and foremost, an owners commish. its about money. its about manipulating the appearance of safety measures. its about protecting the owners.

You dropped some good points, but I wanted to focus on the one above:

• It's always been about the money and it always will be about the money.
  
• The Commish has always been a paid employee of the owners, so that's nothing new.
  
• When looking at safety imagine if a class action lawsuit where the true settlement amount cripples the league. That's the true quantifable risk that's at the table.

What is Goodell supposed to do? Would it make sense if he ignored the massive mounting law suit? Should he be telling players to man up adn they just got their bell rung? Should he ignore the straight forward concussion stats linked to kickoffs? Should he continue to endorse the types of hits that have made football great, but also have long term side effects that are being documented more each day?

He's running a business like any other president out there. If he did nothing he wouldn't be doing his job. To me it's pretty straight forward.

[Pegger]

sirvalence, on 08 December 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

you forgot to put with this that he his turning NFL football in to flag football

Is it really him making the change? Did he initiate the class action law suit against the league? Did he tell the media to start highlighting some of the horrible post career stories where players either commit suicide or live in pain? Is he one of the players that have went on record saying they won't let their son play football?

He's reacting to what society wants. For all the haters this is the world we live in so deal with it. Have your kid try to take a peanut butter sandwich to school for lunch and you'll know what I'm talking about.

[Pegger]

CMPunk, on 07 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

My only issues with him is allowing training camp to be shortened, lessening the quality of football. You see more mistakes nowdays.

And the fact that he took away celebrations. While some fat old men on the EMB might thinks its too flashy and unnecessary, a lot of younger people used to find it entertaining.

The training camp reduction was a large negotiation point that the players won. Ultimately they wanted less wear and tear on the body and less practice was what the owners had to give up. I think teams will find ways to still provide a very good product on the field. This could be iPad related apps to help learn offenses or more voluntary class time. Ultimately the players that really want to succeed will put in more time and the guys that needed to be hand held will get left behind.

As for the celebrations I agree with you 100%. I see that Goodell is in charge of the league's image and in an effort to keep things classy he has created restrictions, but IMO people should be able to celebrate their teams success.

[CountBlah]

PickFoles, on 07 December 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

***Waits for a bunch of fat old men to enter this thread and complain about how, back in their day, they used to play football barefooted on field of broken glass with a jagged, lead-painted rock instead of a leather ball.***



"Today's NFL players are a bunch of namby pamby wusses!" - Random balding old man who played flag football for 3/4 of a season back when he was 15.

So the race bating thing didn't work out for you, so now you are trying the age thing?   What's next, beating up little kids for their lollipops?

[Excel]

I love the guy. Sign him up for another 10 years.

[cmart102]

Maybe it's the whole pretending to care about player safety thing while advocating for an 18 game schedule, having thursday night football, originally denying the link between brain disease and concussions, employing replacement officials, and challenging players' rights to file workers' compensation claims for injuries.

You know, player safety type stuff

[Wallyhorse]

PickFoles, on 07 December 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

***Waits for a bunch of fat old men to enter this thread and complain about how, back in their day, they used to play football barefooted on field of broken glass with a jagged, lead-painted rock instead of a leather ball.***

"Today's NFL players are a bunch of namby pamby wusses!" - Random balding old man who played flag football for 3/4 of a season back when he was 15.

In all seriousness, Godell, love him or hate him has been addressing serious issues that could have derailed the NFL in the wrong hands.

As for the 18-game schedule, that I think was more the networks and Vegas wanting it for obvious reasons.  That to me is not necessary, since as I wrote previously, you can add two weeks to the season by simply adding a bye week that coincides with a team's Thursday game (having 10 days off before the Thursday game and nine days off afterwards in most cases) and making the conference title a two-leg, home-and-home total combined score affair (Game 1 at lower seed with no overtime even if tied, Game 2 at higher seed with overtime in Game 2 only if the combined score after the two games is tied) as is actually done in soccer aside from the championship game that is played at a neutral site.  That is how two weeks can be added..

[cmart102]

Wallyhorse, on 11 December 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

In all seriousness, Godell, love him or hate him has been addressing serious issues that could have derailed the NFL in the wrong hands.

As for the 18-game schedule, that I think was more the networks and Vegas wanting it for obvious reasons.  That to me is not necessary, since as I wrote previously, you can add two weeks to the season by simply adding a bye week that coincides with a team's Thursday game (having 10 days off before the Thursday game and nine days off afterwards in most cases) and making the conference title a two-leg, home-and-home total combined score affair (Game 1 at lower seed with no overtime even if tied, Game 2 at higher seed with overtime in Game 2 only if the combined score after the two games is tied) as is actually done in soccer aside from the championship game that is played at a neutral site.  That is how two weeks can be added..

aggregate scoring is ridiculous in American football

[dawkins4prez]

OOOPS!  Looks like the INQUISITOR stepped in his poo!

[dmac5]

How much $ does he make per year again? Won't it be like $10 million or something like that in 2020?

[cmart102]

dmac5, on 11 December 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

How much $ does he make per year again? Won't it be like $10 million or something like that in 2020?

Try 20 mil

[PhillyGreenMachine]

Can anyone tell me why Goodell literally comes up with the dumbest ideas? I can in two seconds come up with so many flaws in his already flawed logic.

#1. Create an NFL team in England

This is the National Football League, meaning all of the teams that are composed of this league are in the United States of America, or reside in some part of the Americas. But why would he want to bring a team to England? Nobody watches that game and for the most part, its usually a big blowout between the Patriots and some average Joe of a team. I don't think I have even watched this game since 2007 when the Giants played the Dolphins in a close contest. The people in Europe also hate American Football, so they don't deserve a team since they give the sport so much crap. Secondly, who wants to have their team in England? Does he realize that the cost of travel is going to be so immense that no team will want to travel there and the team that plays there will have to take a plane 8 times sometimes 6,000 miles to the other side of the ocean and even past the East Coast to the West. If anything, Roger should put a team in Canada or Mexico, because those two countries are actually in America.

#2. Taking away two Preseason games and replacing them with two Regular season game in an 18 game or 19 week season.

This is only half flawed because although the preseason games are important for evaluating talent, they are also rarely ever a draw to fans and don't sell very well. Goodell's main problem with the 4 preseason game system is the injuries that take some starters out of the regular season... HOWEVER, he doesn't realize that with 18 regular season games, players actually have MORE of a chance of getting injured as the starters only play during half of the time in the preseason, but are forced to play the whole time in the regular season. This would make the team more watered down then it was in the first place.

#3. Goodell taking away the kick-offs.

Roger Goodell has always been wary of keeping the players safe, so his major target is taking away kick-offs. Some returners have been completely screwed in their careers because they got concussions on hard helmet to helmet hits on kick offs. Our own Ellis Hobbs got injured in consecutive seasons after getting concussed on kick offs. But is getting rid of kick offs really affecting this problem? I say not as the Eagles have not had a mortally injured returner since Ellis Hobbs and while kicking from the 35 hinders returners from going out of the endzone, it actually doesn't really matter as even though some returners start with the ball from the back of the endzone, they still come out anyways.

So he gets rid of kick offs? What happens then? So your team is down 9 points with 1:30 left in the game and you have one or zero timeouts. What then? You score a touchdown and hit the two point conversion and now you are down 1 point. But wait? You can't get a chance to get the ball back unless your opponent screws up and now you have lost because you didn't have the timeouts to stop the clock because your opponent kneeled the ball. It would be just like Techmo Bowl.

[TurkeyHat]

Now he wants 16 teams in the playoffs. Half the league in the playoffs? It's not even a competition anymore. Any decent team WILL, not CAN, make the playoffs, 8-8, 7-9, whatever. 12 is just enough, no more. When 50% of the league makes the playoffs, it's less competitive. The best teams should ideally make it in, not the best teams and decent teams. Even now, some teams that make it in really shouldn't like the seahawks a couple years ago. Just stop. He's trying to make the league into intramurals.

I understand some of the rule changes are for safety. Understandable. The flagged hits on defenseless receivers: fair. Some flags are uncalled for, but it's to be on the safer side. I don't like it, but I definitely don't hate it, there needs to be some protection there. The kickoff change to the 35? Fair. Tons of injuries happened on kickoffs, there are still lots of kickoff returns. Overtime needed to be changed, good on him.

That being said, there are some really terrible flags and fines on some hits. The whole playoff thing (which I don't think will be passes anyway) is ridiculous. It just reminds me of intramural flag football at college now, where a simple bump is a flag and you can make the playoffs by just "good sportsmanship"...

I think the rules on season length, playoffs, etc should be left alone. The contact thing, well, player safety undoubtedly needs to improve, but let's not change the whole game to make it happen.

[PhillyGreenMachine]

TurkeyHat, on 13 December 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

Now he wants 16 teams in the playoffs. Half the league in the playoffs? It's not even a competition anymore. Any decent team WILL, not CAN, make the playoffs, 8-8, 7-9, whatever. 12 is just enough, no more. When 50% of the league makes the playoffs, it's less competitive. The best teams should ideally make it in, not the best teams and decent teams. Even now, some teams that make it in really shouldn't like the seahawks a couple years ago. Just stop. He's trying to make the league into intramurals.

I understand some of the rule changes are for safety. Understandable. The flagged hits on defenseless receivers: fair. Some flags are uncalled for, but it's to be on the safer side. I don't like it, but I definitely don't hate it, there needs to be some protection there. The kickoff change to the 35? Fair. Tons of injuries happened on kickoffs, there are still lots of kickoff returns. Overtime needed to be changed, good on him.

That being said, there are some really terrible flags and fines on some hits. The whole playoff thing (which I don't think will be passes anyway) is ridiculous. It just reminds me of intramural flag football at college now, where a simple bump is a flag and you can make the playoffs by just "good sportsmanship"...

I think the rules on season length, playoffs, etc should be left alone. The contact thing, well, player safety undoubtedly needs to improve, but let's not change the whole game to make it happen.

I'm not as mad at the overtime rules. This is something that deserved to be put into play. Too many times does it require your team to win a coin flip and then get to the 20 yard line and kick a field goal. Now if you kick a field goal the other team gets another chance.

[Wallyhorse]

cmart102, on 11 December 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

aggregate scoring is ridiculous in American football

I would not think so.  Especially in the conference championship, it would likely show a deserving winner because the winner would have to do it over eight quarters over two weeks.  It does give the lower seeded team home field for the first game, but the higher seeded team gets it for the second game and if overtime is necessary as well.  

Overtime (if the combined score is tied after the two games) as I would do it would be a little different as well, with a 20-minute, non-sudden death mini-game (two 10-minute halves) if after the two games the score is tied.  If the score is still tied after the mini-game, then we play sudden death overtime as we know it.

[HaroldTheSecond]

cmart102, on 11 December 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Maybe it's the whole pretending to care about player safety thing while advocating for an 18 game schedule, having thursday night football, originally denying the link between brain disease and concussions, employing replacement officials, and challenging players' rights to file workers' compensation claims for injuries.

You know, player safety type stuff

But most of the Thursday night games will likely be jettisoned in the event of an 18-game schedule.

And interestingly, in the CFL, which has had 18 games since the late '80s, there are some games essentially every night/day of the week.  That could be looked at by the NFL if and when they do it; indeed, we have already seen a Tuesday night game (Eagles vs. Vikings in 2010) and a Wednesday night game (Giants vs. Dallas this year).  This would provide a lot more flexibility: Three days' rest between games is simply unacceptable, no matter how many games there are in the regular season.

[dmac5]

cmart102, on 11 December 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Try 20 mil

Holy ish.

PhillyGreenMachine, on 12 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

So he gets rid of kick offs? What happens then? So your team is down 9 points with 1:30 left in the game and you have one or zero timeouts. What then? You score a touchdown and hit the two point conversion and now you are down 1 point. But wait? You can't get a chance to get the ball back unless your opponent screws up and now you have lost because you didn't have the timeouts to stop the clock because your opponent kneeled the ball. It would be just like Techmo Bowl.

This makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, why would you go for 2 if you're down by 3 after the TD? Kick the extra point and you're down by 2. Secondly, according to his plan, you would have a chance to get 15 yards on one play to get the ball back.

[PhillyGreenMachine]

dmac5, on 13 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Holy ish.



This makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, why would you go for 2 if you're down by 3 after the TD? Kick the extra point and you're down by 2. Secondly, according to his plan, you would have a chance to get 15 yards on one play to get the ball back.

Please humor me. You could be down by more then 3 points before you get the ball back, that isn't my point.

15 yards how? Getting rid of kick offs would give the ball back to the other team and you wouldn't be able to get the ball back if you didn't have timeouts to stop the clock. Especially if you had no timeouts.

[Pegger]

#1. Create an NFL team in England - He's talking about it to create a buzz. Same as having games played in Mexico and Canada. The thinking is all are fairly large geographic bases that can increase their merchandise sales. Difference between England vs Canada/Mexico is that it's a far larger market. I'm actually wondering why he wouldn't try a preseason game in China? That's a massive market that only the Houston Rockets have tapped (Yao Ming/Jeremy Lin).

#2. Taking away two Preseason games and replacing them with two Regular season game in an 18 game or 19 week season. - Preseason games are useless. Nobody watches them so it's tough to sell advertising time at a premium. More regular season would mean more meaningful football. Not sure why a football fan would disagree with that. With respect to the injuries there is a greater chance, but like the NFL each player would make more per NFL season.

#3. Goodell taking away the kick-offs. - Stats show it's the highest injury/event play in football. It's pretty much a goner.

[Pegger]

cmart102, on 11 December 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Try 20 mil

It's estimated at $11.2M.

I think during the CBA negotiations it was estimated that the NFL brings in around $9B each year.

So he's getting 11,200,000 of 9,000,000,000 or 0.12%

He's the president or simpily put the person in charge of growth and maintaining all profit. That's actually a crazy deal. If you compare him to any bank president he's a massive discount. Heck, there's a lot of banks that give bonuses to their hedge fund guys that are more than $11.2M.

Sorry to burst your bubble by adding some perspective.

[cmart102]

Pegger, on 13 December 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Sorry to burst your bubble by adding some perspective.

I dont care about his salary at all. I do like how you ignored nearly every one of my points on player safety though, that was nice