55 replies to this topic

[HaroldTheSecond]

Pegger, on 13 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

#1. Create an NFL team in England - He's talking about it to create a buzz. Same as having games played in Mexico and Canada. The thinking is all are fairly large geographic bases that can increase their merchandise sales. Difference between England vs Canada/Mexico is that it's a far larger market. I'm actually wondering why he wouldn't try a preseason game in China? That's a massive market that only the Houston Rockets have tapped (Yao Ming/Jeremy Lin).

#2. Taking away two Preseason games and replacing them with two Regular season game in an 18 game or 19 week season. - Preseason games are useless. Nobody watches them so it's tough to sell advertising time at a premium. More regular season would mean more meaningful football. Not sure why a football fan would disagree with that. With respect to the injuries there is a greater chance, but like the NFL each player would make more per NFL season.

#3. Goodell taking away the kick-offs. - Stats show it's the highest injury/event play in football. It's pretty much a goner.

#1, Create a team in Los Angeles (duh!) as well as England (London) - and the L.A. team goes in the NFC West (which the owners favor, as opposed to the AFC, to avoid "blackout radius overlap" with San Diego), and the London team goes in the NFC East (!)  Then move the Seahawks back to the AFC West, which their owner never wanted to leave a decade ago (he cast the lone vote against the 2002 realignment for that reason; and since the AFC got both of the last two expansion teams - Cleveland in 1999 and Houston in 2002 - it's only fair that the NFC get both of the next two).

#2. The 18-game regular season would actually be played over 20 weeks - with two bye weeks for each team - for two reasons: First. more money for all concerned = 20 is 17.6% more than 17 (the current 16-game season is played over 17 weeks), so the owners could easily afford to offer the union a 12.5% across-the-board salary increase for all players for playing 18 games instead of 16 (18 being 12.5% more than 16).  And second, the owners want the Super Bowl to be played on the Presdients' Day weekend, which is actually one of the main reasons they want 18 games; this also means that the totally useless idle week between the conference title games and the Super Bowl would have to be abolished, otherwise the Super Bowl gets pushed back three weeks instead of two.

#3. Instead of abolishing kickoffs, keep the clock running after incomplete passes and during PATs, except in the last two minutes of the first half and the last five minutes of the game.  That should reduce the total number of plays per game from the present 125 to about 110, effectively cancelling out the two extra regular-season games,

[dawkins4prez]

I'll give you 3 big reasons Roger Goodell has already killed the NFL:


1:  A complete mismanagement of player safety.  Goodell has put the entire onus on the players and fans and the league has taken NONE, ZERO, NADA.  Where is the superior equipment?   I said WHERE THE F is the superior equipment???  They can fine players for bang bang plays, make them play short weeks and eliminate kickoffs but they don't for the life of themselves nix their equipment sponsorships and force superior helmets to be worn.  They eliminate practices so they can add more games.  Every single year since Goodell has taken office they have added more water to your drink, but never, ever have they made a single decision that would actually cost the league money to improve the safety for the players.  One day, very soon the fans will wake up and say, this drink doesn't make me drunk anymore!

2:  Over complication of the rule book and the instant replay shakedown.   Try explaining the Qb protection rules to someone who has never watched football before and you will realize about 10 seconds in that it's impossible.  The rules have become so complicated for everything from where and how to make contact to catching the damn ball.  This makes football a less and less accessible sport for new fans which flies straight in the face of Goodell's loftier goals like exporting the game to Europe.  Also, the flow of the game is HORRIBLE.  Once upon a time there were fierce debates about getting the right balance between "getting it right" with instant replay and protecting the flow of the game.  Goodell has thrown them all out the window with instant replay hitting us almost every drive.  They don't do it to get it right, they do it to throw more commercials down your throat.  Regular season games are averaging a half hour longer than they used to.  Don't ya'll just love the Touchdown/commercial for replay of TD/extra point/commercial/touchback/commercial/next play sequence?  That's abusing your fans right there.

3:  24/7 football and the bubble.  NFL popularity is on an artificial bubble created by fantasy football.  Arizona v.s. Carolina wk 16?  Nobody would have watched that stinker in past years, but now everybody cares because it's FF championship week and somebody owns Fitz and Cam.  But eventually FF will go out of style, just like Twister and Trivial Pursuit and angry birds.  Thursday night football is an awful move because it creates burn out and frustration to FF fans who will eventually quit playing.  There was a time when Monday Night Football ruled monday nights, no other newtwork dared put anything against it.  That was the NFL's night to bring in new fans.  Now it's the same hard core junkies watching sundays, mondays and thursdays.


It's a toxic mix of burning out your hardcore fans, making the game increasingly inaccessible to new fans and watering down the core product.  Anybody who doesn't see the cliff the NFL is about to go over is blind as a bat.

[Pegger]

Nnamdi, to your points:

1:  A complete mismanagement of player safety.  - He can't control the entire equiptment industry, which when you look at their sales only a small amount go to NFL football players. Realistically Goodell can only try to control the players and that's what he's trying to do. How hard of a job is that? Well both Dez Bryant and RG3 should probably miss this weeks game, but they actually want to put their bodies at risk to potentially help the team. That's the mentality he's dealing with.

2:  Over complication of the rule book and the instant replay shakedown. - Football has always been tough to explain to someone that doesn't have a base understanding. Same can be said for rugby, soccer, baseball, etc... It's just a complicated team game with a lot of moving parts. That alone is too much for many to follow. In regards to hating those commercials, then think of it this way: would you be able to see 5 different angles of a play all in HD from your couch if the broadcasters couldn't sell that commercial time? The answer is no.


3:  24/7 football and the bubble. - Fantasy sports in general started with baseball 1961. When football got on board the popularity and marketability of the sport began grow. Saying it's a fad just suggests you don't know anything about fantasy football or it's importance in generating revenue.

[HaroldTheSecond]

Nnamdi:

Eliminate practice so they can add more games?  But they haven't added any more games since 1978!

And it's not so much instant replay that is lengthening the games; it is the lopsided emphasis on passing that is doing that.  I can actually remember a year in which the typical NFL team gained more rushing than passing yardage over the course of the entire season! (1977).

Regarding fantasy football, I think you're overestimating its importance - and Thursday night games are going to be sharply curtailed once the 18-game schedule is in place, which could be as soon as 2014; otherwise, why weren't the out-of-division opponents for each team beyond 2013 listed in this year's NFL Record & Fact Book?

[dawkins4prez]

HaroldTheSecond, on 15 December 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

Nnamdi:

Eliminate practice so they can add more games?  But they haven't added any more games since 1978!

And it's not so much instant replay that is lengthening the games; it is the lopsided emphasis on passing that is doing that.  I can actually remember a year in which the typical NFL team gained more rushing than passing yardage over the course of the entire season! (1977).

Regarding fantasy football, I think you're overestimating its importance - and Thursday night games are going to be sharply curtailed once the 18-game schedule is in place, which could be as soon as 2014; otherwise, why weren't the out-of-division opponents for each team beyond 2013 listed in this year's NFL Record & Fact Book?

Seriously dude?

Contradict yourself in the same post?

C'mon man!

[IggleWalt]

The watering down of the NFL started when Reggie won the court case.

I love when people put full blame on Goodell or the owners while never saying a thing about the players.

[IggleWalt]

cmart102, on 13 December 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

I dont care about his salary at all. I do like how you ignored nearly every one of my points on player safety though, that was nice

You can't police players when they can't police themselves.

[dawkins4prez]

IggleWalt, on 16 December 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

The watering down of the NFL started when Reggie won the court case.

I love when people put full blame on Goodell or the owners while never saying a thing about the players.

Please enlighten us on how you came to that whopper of a conclusion!

[skippyx]

Players make more money now.
Players practice much less.
Player safety is about 1000 times more important.

Some cheaters, punks, drug abusers and thugs have a hard time.

What a monster.

[NCTANK]

I saw a piece about research being conducted at the University of North Carolina on a safer helmet......for all of football. Helmets were designed and built to better withstand the impact to the head/brain. Those helmets had been tested by players at the university, data compiled and kept. The director of that program stated that the NFL did not seem interested in his findings and kinda blew him off. I dont have a link, or even remember the guys name, but I'm pretty sure that I saw the piece on ESPN. I'm just wondering if anybody else on here saw it too?

I'm not against making changes regarding the Super Bowl. My best proposal would be to move game day back to Saturday night instead of Sunday night. I remember Cowherd citing the staggering, record number of lost work days on the Monday after the Super Bowl. I actually had to fire a guy a few years ago for laying out on me the Monday after. Not that the NFL would give a rip about the world outside of theirs, but I still think it would be well received by the general public...surely one appreciated by the corporate world...BIG money they have. A credible decision would go a long way in restoring some positive public perception of Goodell and the NFL. Thats what we're talking about, right?

Fantasy Football may be where mo money lies, but my personal opinion is that the NFL should'nt be hitching too many of it's plows to those donkey's. BTW, MLB has made, some terrible decisions regarding their public appeal. I wouldnt cite their data in anything that I would use in an argument for my case. Look for them to continue to loses fan base on a national level, but thats another subject.

I know these guys have a tough task, you cant please everyone. I get it, but I gotta tell you, some of the things that they've already done, and are talking about, are really out there. Cant we, at least, agree on that? You can explain it any way you want. Some of you guys are quite educated on this particular subject. Some of the discussion has me looking at it somewhat differently. I'm impressed, but a man dont need a degree to see the warts on a pigs butt.....just sayin'. Goodell has work to do.

Pegger did good.

[dragon_mikal]

Pegger, on 07 December 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

I just don't get it. People feel he's personally attacking their NFL when the truth is that he's the one ultimately responsible for protecting it. Here's some info about the NFL he stepped into:

1 - Former president Paul Tagliabue signed a CBA on his way out that greatly favored the players and ownership group demanded some cuts.
2 - NFL players were getting a 'thugish' image for narcotics possession, crime and being arrested.
3 - There was a mounting class action law suit from former players who require health benefits from injuries sustained while playing.
4 - The pure violence of the game was effecting it's ability to grow (former and current players not letting their kids play football).

What has he done?

1 - Hammered out a 10 year CBA with zero regular season games missed (NHL, NBA and MLB should take note).
2 - Made players accountable for protecting the image of the league and fining them when they step out of line.
3 - As a part of the CBA they have worked former players into the revenue mix.
4 - Reduced many of the high impact moments of the game and have started a campaign to grow awareness on what the NFL is doing to protect it's players.


The NFL has went through many changes in it's existence. Look at any NFL Films highlights and you see some crazy stuff. people using an arm cast as a club, horrible face mask tackles, etc... The changes in the NFL are consistent with the ones in any business sector with respect to compliance or health guidelines. As our society we change our beliefs as we fully learn the negative ramifications of an action. The Romans use to pit slave agaisnt animals as they cheered for blood. Currently in Spain you can see an individual slowly kill a bull by stabbing it's back 10+ times. The NFL, like all industries, has to adapt to what society wants and unfortunately Goodell has the job of making those changes for the NFL.

The hate for Goodell really does puzzle me. Anyway, haters come on in. Voice why you hate Goodell so much. Is it that he has too much power? Do you always just hate authority? Did he steal your girlfriend? Seriously, what are the larger issues that you hate about the guy.

If you truly believe Roger Goodell cares about the players I have some ocean front property to sell you in Arizona.

Roger Goodell is covering his own a**. He knows lawsuits are coming from older players due to the concussion issue and he wants to make sure he has something to fall back on if his name is in it.

He isn't noble, he isn't doing what is best for the players and he sure as hell doesn't care about them. You don't preach safety and protect the players and then push for games every Thursday and an 18 game schedule.

Come on people and open your eyes.

Roger Goodell's catch phrase - "Cover my a** and show me the money."

[rocketman44]

I have mixed impressions on Goodell thus far, and I've "Liked" several replies on this thread, on both sides of the argument as it were, b/c no matter how one comes down on this topic, these replies are interesting and educational to a good degree.

In regard to safety, I think the NFL has to rigorously work to find a better helmet design and then make players where it instead of leaving it up to the player. Also - and I've read that this has to be negotiated with the Union - it's time to make players wear knee and thigh pads. And the players' uniform pants should come down to the knee - there are a lot of guys wearing what looks like bicycle pants out there.

I'm an older fan (dating from the late 1960s) but I don't rail against how the game has changed. I don't long for the days of clothesline tackles. The game has to evolve. Player safety is crucial. It could well get to the point where parents find another sport for their kid to play, and once that happens in large numbers, football as we know it is doomed. So whatever the Commisioner's level of sincerity is, he must promote player safety, if for no other reason that to ensure its future viability.

By the way, perhaps player fines could be determined by precentage of salary rather than a fixed amount. Higher-played players would end up with bigger fines. Maybe that would adequately address the concern mentioned earlier about inequity in fines. A suspension would have a similar effect, costing a higher-paid player more money in a lost game check.

[cmart102]

The way Goodell handled the saints suspensions is a fireable offense, plain and simple

[Pegger]

cmart102, on 18 December 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

The way Goodell handled the saints suspensions is a fireable offense, plain and simple

Meh. There was still had a bounty campaign. The only difference is that Vitt, who was the ring master, was one of the first to come forward and testify agaisnt the other members mentioned.

He was too fast to act, but when it involves player safety it's better to go too far as opposed to not enough.

As for him being wrong look how many people have been sentenced to jail only to be aquitted afterwards. Those individuals typically use the same legal process the players did to ultimately overturn the ruling.

[cmart102]

Pegger, on 18 December 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

He was too fast to act, but when it involves player safety it's better to go too far as opposed to not enough.

Like having thursday night football nearly every week, pushing for an 18 game schedule, not making players wear the better helmets, denying the link between brain disease and football concussions, employing replacement officials, and challenging players' rights to file workers' compensation claims for injuries?

Oh wait those are all the opposite

[dawkins4prez]

6 years into Goodell's inquisition and we still don't know exactly what constitutes a one game suspension or a 4 game suspension.  Fines and penalties and suspensions are STILL subject to Goodell's daily bowel movements.

No, no, no my friends, this Saints debacle was a LOOOOONG time a-coming.

[Pegger]

cmart102, on 18 December 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Like having thursday night football nearly every week, pushing for an 18 game schedule, not making players wear the better helmets, denying the link between brain disease and football concussions, employing replacement officials, and challenging players' rights to file workers' compensation claims for injuries?

Oh wait those are all the opposite

RE: Thursday night games - Players complain about only having 3 days of rest, but yet they say nothing about having a 9 day mini-bye week right afterwards. Personally the most hatred over the Thursday games have come from fantasy football fans because it makes it tougher to put in their lineups.

RE: 18 game schedule - Granted it would be more impact, but it also grows the revenue each year. Essentially careers will be shorter, but they will get paid more each season. It's a give and take. Personally I think you dump 2 preseason games, bump the regular season to 18 and include an extra bye week (3 more weeks of real football) it would work just fine. For me I can't believe how quickly each season goes bye.

RE: Making players wear better helmets - How can they do this? Each hemlet manufacturer does their own 'independant' testing and states they are the best. How does the league determine one method is better than another? Also, think how many helmets the NFL buys each year. Let's do some simple math. 32 teams X 80 players/team X 4 helmets each = 10,240. On average the helmets cost around $250, so the NFL contributes an estimated total of (10,240 X $250) $2,560,000 each year to the industry. That's a pretty small number with respect to their contribution to the entire industry. Colleges and minor sports leagues probably purchase way more helmets per year. How exactly is one of the smaller purchasers supposed to change all the suppliers of an industry?

RE: Denying linkage between concussions/brain disease - I think you are confusing Goodell with the former presidents. All the moves like changing the rules, negotiating for more pension/post football benefits and penalizing players for hurting others are geared towards that linkage you mentioned that he's denying.

RE: Replacement refs - Look at any week. Calls are missed for and against player safety. That had do to with hard negotiations where once again the owners of the league gave Goodell a mandate and he was operating wtihin those guidelines.

RE: Workers comp claims - Not sure what you mean here. Many times the CBA for the league fall under certain state guidelines. It's not that he's ignoring claims, but trying to focus on the rules that were agreed upon.

[NOTW]

PhillyGreenMachine, on 12 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Can anyone tell me why Goodell literally comes up with the dumbest ideas? I can in two seconds come up with so many flaws in his already flawed logic.

#1. Create an NFL team in England

This is the National Football League, meaning all of the teams that are composed of this league are in the United States of America, or reside in some part of the Americas. But why would he want to bring a team to England? Nobody watches that game and for the most part, its usually a big blowout between the Patriots and some average Joe of a team. I don't think I have even watched this game since 2007 when the Giants played the Dolphins in a close contest. The people in Europe also hate American Football, so they don't deserve a team since they give the sport so much crap. Secondly, who wants to have their team in England? Does he realize that the cost of travel is going to be so immense that no team will want to travel there and the team that plays there will have to take a plane 8 times sometimes 6,000 miles to the other side of the ocean and even past the East Coast to the West. If anything, Roger should put a team in Canada or Mexico, because those two countries are actually in America.

#1:  Baseball, hockey and at one point basketball all have/had teams in Canada.  Though they are in North America they are indeed in another nation.  Change to the NFL is not new.  It's always evolving and the world is becoming more connected globally.  Movies made in the US are now released in other countries before they are released here.

The leagues merged, the original game of football had different rules, points and uniforms.  Originally there was no passing, no extra points and no field goals.  Things change.

Quote

#2. Taking away two Preseason games and replacing them with two Regular season game in an 18 game or 19 week season.

This is only half flawed because although the preseason games are important for evaluating talent, they are also rarely ever a draw to fans and don't sell very well. Goodell's main problem with the 4 preseason game system is the injuries that take some starters out of the regular season... HOWEVER, he doesn't realize that with 18 regular season games, players actually have MORE of a chance of getting injured as the starters only play during half of the time in the preseason, but are forced to play the whole time in the regular season. This would make the team more watered down then it was in the first place.

#2:  Essentially the first two regular season games would be a continuation of the preseason because teams would still be getting into the swing of things and shaking off the rust from injuries.  They'd have to allow a larger roster and allow cuts after week 2 or something to give them more time to pare the roster down.

Quote

#3. Goodell taking away the kick-offs.

Roger Goodell has always been wary of keeping the players safe, so his major target is taking away kick-offs. Some returners have been completely screwed in their careers because they got concussions on hard helmet to helmet hits on kick offs. Our own Ellis Hobbs got injured in consecutive seasons after getting concussed on kick offs. But is getting rid of kick offs really affecting this problem? I say not as the Eagles have not had a mortally injured returner since Ellis Hobbs and while kicking from the 35 hinders returners from going out of the endzone, it actually doesn't really matter as even though some returners start with the ball from the back of the endzone, they still come out anyways.

So he gets rid of kick offs? What happens then? So your team is down 9 points with 1:30 left in the game and you have one or zero timeouts. What then? You score a touchdown and hit the two point conversion and now you are down 1 point. But wait? You can't get a chance to get the ball back unless your opponent screws up and now you have lost because you didn't have the timeouts to stop the clock because your opponent kneeled the ball. It would be just like Techmo Bowl.

I don't think you know what the word wary means.

But anyway, you also don't understand Goodell's entire proposal.  And understand:  it's just an idea they are kicking around and it is also endorsed by some owners and coaches.  It's not Goodell being a dictator and waving a wand to make a rule change.  The owners have to vote on these things you know.

But the suggestion is not to remove kickoffs and that's it:  it's is to REPLACE kickoffs after points with a choice for the team:  A) punt the ball or B) go for it on a 4th and 15 situation to retain posession.

So you are getting upset about a scenario where a team can't come back.  Actually, you are double wrong because not only do they get a chance, they get a choice between two plays:  teams can get creative with a punt situation just like an onsides kick and attempt to recover the ball, or they can keep their offense on the field and convert for a 1st down and keep the ball with another chance to score.

Kickoffs are largely pointless and this would not be the first change to the game.  As I said, the entire points system was different originally.  At first, there was no passing or extra points for field goals.  Touchdowns originally were 4 points if I remember correctly.  Lots of things have changed about the game.  It happens.

[Pegger]

dragon_mikal, on 17 December 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

If you truly believe Roger Goodell cares about the players I have some ocean front property to sell you in Arizona.

Of course he doesn't care about the players. Heck, do any of us? Seriously though watch the 30 for 30 on athletes post playing. The stat they reference is that 80% of NFL football players are broke 2 years removed from their playing days. If you really cared about the players take the time to find out where these guys are now and offer up your couch to sleep on. Maybe try to help them get a job.

Football is what is it. We watch some of the greatest athletes operate as a team to destroy each other. When they stop playing we start watching them all together.

Honestly do any of us care? If anything we make fun of thinks like Freddie Mitchell going broke or Reno Mahe having a mug shot taken. That's the extent of our 'care'. Essentially we just laugh at players we used to root for.

[HaroldTheSecond]

The 18-game schedule will bring more parity, which has been on the decline in recent years - a 16-0 team in 2007, an 0-16 team in 2008, and at least six of the teams that won division titles in 2011 winning them again in 2012 - for two reasons: First, the 17th and 18th games are projected to be inter-conference games matching up teams that finished in the same place in their division the year before; in the NFC East, this means that the Redskins (assuming they hang on to win the division) would have had games against New England and Houston added to their schedule next year, while the Eagles would have added games against Buffalo and Jacksonville (the NFC East would not play any AFC North teams next year because they played all four of them this year) had the 18-game schedule been in effect for 2013; and second, with only two preseason games to evaluate talent, strong teams would get squeezed and inevitably cut some of the "wrong" players, who would get snapped up by the weak teams under the waiver system.

Thus teams that are finishing 2-14 now could expect to finish more like 4-14 under the 18-game schedule.

[dawkins4prez]

HaroldTheSecond, on 20 December 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Thus teams that are finishing 2-14 now could expect to finish more like 4-14 under the 18-game schedule.

Well that's a relief!

You can only do so much in the name of parity.  The NFl has the best parity rules in all of major sports thanks to Tagliabue.  But no matter what safeguards you put in, somebody will find a way to suck bad and somebody will find a way to dominate.

[dawkins4prez]

Pegger, on 19 December 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

RE: Thursday night games - Players complain about only having 3 days of rest, but yet they say nothing about having a 9 day mini-bye week right afterwards. Personally the most hatred over the Thursday games have come from fantasy football fans because it makes it tougher to put in their lineups.

RE: 18 game schedule - Granted it would be more impact, but it also grows the revenue each year. Essentially careers will be shorter, but they will get paid more each season. It's a give and take. Personally I think you dump 2 preseason games, bump the regular season to 18 and include an extra bye week (3 more weeks of real football) it would work just fine. For me I can't believe how quickly each season goes bye.

RE: Making players wear better helmets - How can they do this? Each hemlet manufacturer does their own 'independant' testing and states they are the best. How does the league determine one method is better than another? Also, think how many helmets the NFL buys each year. Let's do some simple math. 32 teams X 80 players/team X 4 helmets each = 10,240. On average the helmets cost around $250, so the NFL contributes an estimated total of (10,240 X $250) $2,560,000 each year to the industry. That's a pretty small number with respect to their contribution to the entire industry. Colleges and minor sports leagues probably purchase way more helmets per year. How exactly is one of the smaller purchasers supposed to change all the suppliers of an industry?

RE: Denying linkage between concussions/brain disease - I think you are confusing Goodell with the former presidents. All the moves like changing the rules, negotiating for more pension/post football benefits and penalizing players for hurting others are geared towards that linkage you mentioned that he's denying.

RE: Replacement refs - Look at any week. Calls are missed for and against player safety. That had do to with hard negotiations where once again the owners of the league gave Goodell a mandate and he was operating wtihin those guidelines.

RE: Workers comp claims - Not sure what you mean here. Many times the CBA for the league fall under certain state guidelines. It's not that he's ignoring claims, but trying to focus on the rules that were agreed upon.

RE thursdays:   Frame it any way you want, 2 games in 5 days flies in the face of everything else they say or do say about player safety.  Nothing makes up for it, thursday games are brutal.

RE Helmets:  The league has 100% responsibility for what equipment is being worn.  It's their contracts with the manufacturers and it's their rule book.  They fine players 20k for wearing the WRONG COLOR SOCKS, and you are going to tell me they have no control over the equipment?  That must be the EIFFEL TOWER of BS.

RE Denial:  And here is where the league screwed the pooch.  They are going to lose that court case.  There is nothing they can do retroactively to repair those brains and there is nothing they can do with the game's being played today that have any effect on the outcome of that settlement.  All they can do is prevent FUTURE claims.  In order to prevent FUTURE claims they must have FULL DISCLOSURE.  It'sthe disclosure that has them in trouble not the actual damage, just like the cases against the cigarette companies.  And just like the cigarette companies did, you are in even bigger trouble if you change the product.  Slap the warning on every contract, provide the best equipment, use a bigger portion of earnings towards health care and get rid of SPEARING, not helmet to helmet contact, SPEARING which was always illegal and wasn't being called in the 80's and 90's.

Strike zone tackling belongs in AMATEUR football.  Pee Wee through College, not in Pro Football.

RE workers comp:  Here is where the players AND the league are screwing the pooch.  There has to be a bigger slice of pie set aside for health care benefits as opposed to salaries which the players end up losing most of the time in 5 years anyways.

[Pegger]

Nnamdi Pamdi, on 20 December 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

RE thursdays:   Frame it any way you want, 2 games in 5 days flies in the face of everything else they say or do say about player safety.  Nothing makes up for it, thursday games are brutal.

RE Helmets:  The league has 100% responsibility for what equipment is being worn.  It's their contracts with the manufacturers and it's their rule book.  They fine players 20k for wearing the WRONG COLOR SOCKS, and you are going to tell me they have no control over the equipment?  That must be the EIFFEL TOWER of BS.

RE Denial:  And here is where the league screwed the pooch.  They are going to lose that court case.  There is nothing they can do retroactively to repair those brains and there is nothing they can do with the game's being played today that have any effect on the outcome of that settlement.  All they can do is prevent FUTURE claims.  In order to prevent FUTURE claims they must have FULL DISCLOSURE.  It'sthe disclosure that has them in trouble not the actual damage, just like the cases against the cigarette companies.  And just like the cigarette companies did, you are in even bigger trouble if you change the product.  Slap the warning on every contract, provide the best equipment, use a bigger portion of earnings towards health care and get rid of SPEARING, not helmet to helmet contact, SPEARING which was always illegal and wasn't being called in the 80's and 90's.

Strike zone tackling belongs in AMATEUR football.  Pee Wee through College, not in Pro Football.

RE workers comp:  Here is where the players AND the league are screwing the pooch.  There has to be a bigger slice of pie set aside for health care benefits as opposed to salaries which the players end up losing most of the time in 5 years anyways.

RE: Thursdays - zero contact practices between the games for those short weeks followed by some time off then a regular prep week? The players can grip about how bad it is while they quietly enjoy the benefits of it. I should add that the players negotiated for a % of TV revenue. Having Thursday games essentially just adds a new revenue source to the pot. Are you suggesting players don't want that money? Seriously though, they have less practice then ever before, the best training available to them and the best equiptment ever created. Them complaining about not having enough time between games for ONE GAME is just a negotiating ploy.

RE: Helmets - The business side doesn't hold. They can't change the industry. The % of football players that play at an NFL level interms of size, speed and ultimately impact are the minority, not the norm. They can't do it without a lawsuit.

RE: Denial - I find your cigarette company comparison amusing because it's semi-accurate. They changed the way they do business because of a class action lawsuit. That's exactly what the NFL is facing. They didn't do the necessary research to fully understand the long term effects on their product to those that were using. Same can be said for the NFL. We are in the transition phase where football is figuring out there liability and ultimately what the impact will be. Currently Goodell is doing all he can to minimize the impact, which is actually an example of doing a good job. Football fans complaing about how the league has gone 'soft' can now be grouped in with those black lunged smokers that dislike seeing pictures of black lungs on their cigarette packages.

RE: Spearing - It's the same as leading with your head. Call it by any name, it's still drawing the flag.

RE: Strike Zone Tackling - So you want to teach it in pop warner, but have the kids watch and cheer for the opposite come Sunday? The change has to be at a grass roots level, but fully supported in rule and spirit by the NFL.

RE: Workers Comp - The owners knwo what % of revenue they have to give to the players and it's mainly on them to determine how much goes to current salaries and how much goes to the future. That's not the case. The retired players have ZERO say in current NFLPA negotiations. If anything they are regarded as a competing group, not a ally. I get it because many of your players are living check to check while getting NFL salaries. Those same players vote in their leader. How can a leader run a campaign on saying you'll get less now?


I'm assuming you are like many. You blame Goodell for everything he's done without looking at why it needed to be done. You also would rather focus on other things that are out of his control like the footba  equiptment industry than actually understand that this is a business and has to be run that way.

[dawkins4prez]

Pegger, on 20 December 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

RE: Thursdays - zero contact practices between the games for those short weeks followed by some time off then a regular prep week? The players can grip about how bad it is while they quietly enjoy the benefits of it. I should add that the players negotiated for a % of TV revenue. Having Thursday games essentially just adds a new revenue source to the pot. Are you suggesting players don't want that money? Seriously though, they have less practice then ever before, the best training available to them and the best equiptment ever created. Them complaining about not having enough time between games for ONE GAME is just a negotiating ploy.

RE: Helmets - The business side doesn't hold. They can't change the industry. The % of football players that play at an NFL level interms of size, speed and ultimately impact are the minority, not the norm. They can't do it without a lawsuit.

RE: Denial - I find your cigarette company comparison amusing because it's semi-accurate. They changed the way they do business because of a class action lawsuit. That's exactly what the NFL is facing. They didn't do the necessary research to fully understand the long term effects on their product to those that were using. Same can be said for the NFL. We are in the transition phase where football is figuring out there liability and ultimately what the impact will be. Currently Goodell is doing all he can to minimize the impact, which is actually an example of doing a good job. Football fans complaing about how the league has gone 'soft' can now be grouped in with those black lunged smokers that dislike seeing pictures of black lungs on their cigarette packages.

RE: Spearing - It's the same as leading with your head. Call it by any name, it's still drawing the flag.

RE: Strike Zone Tackling - So you want to teach it in pop warner, but have the kids watch and cheer for the opposite come Sunday? The change has to be at a grass roots level, but fully supported in rule and spirit by the NFL.

RE: Workers Comp - The owners knwo what % of revenue they have to give to the players and it's mainly on them to determine how much goes to current salaries and how much goes to the future. That's not the case. The retired players have ZERO say in current NFLPA negotiations. If anything they are regarded as a competing group, not a ally. I get it because many of your players are living check to check while getting NFL salaries. Those same players vote in their leader. How can a leader run a campaign on saying you'll get less now?


I'm assuming you are like many. You blame Goodell for everything he's done without looking at why it needed to be done. You also would rather focus on other things that are out of his control like the footba  equiptment industry than actually understand that this is a business and has to be run that way.

RE: Strike zone tackling.  ALMOST EVERY SPORT has different rules at the pro level than at the amateur level.  NBA basketball has more fouls, MLB has aluminum bats, and the best example of all amateur boxing that uses padded helmets.

RE:  Spearing.  Spearing is the launching into somebody with your helmet.  It's flagrantly using your helmet as a weapon.  You are supposed to tackle with your head up and sometimes that helmet will hit another helmet.

RE:  Helmets.  They can and they don't.  It's really that simple.  Will it cost them money?  Probably, and that's why they don't do it.

[HaroldTheSecond]

Nnamdi Pamdi, on 20 December 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

Well that's a relief!

You can only do so much in the name of parity.  The NFl has the best parity rules in all of major sports thanks to Tagliabue.  But no matter what safeguards you put in, somebody will find a way to suck bad and somebody will find a way to dominate.

Ask the fans in Tampa in 1976 if they would have rather seen the Buccaneers finish 0-14, or 2-16 - or ask trhe fans in Detroit in 2008 if they would have rather seen the Lions finish 0-16, or 1-17.

Don't criticize a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins - and we may very well be taking that walk, if our FO insists on thinking small at head coach and/or quarterback this spring.

[dawkins4prez]

HaroldTheSecond, on 22 December 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

Ask the fans in Tampa in 1976 if they would have rather seen the Buccaneers finish 0-14, or 2-16 - or ask trhe fans in Detroit in 2008 if they would have rather seen the Lions finish 0-16, or 1-17.

Don't criticize a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins - and we may very well be taking that walk, if our FO insists on thinking small at head coach and/or quarterback this spring.

The absolute worse defense for an 18 game schedule I have ever seen.  The cake is yours my friend.