50 replies to this topic

[CT Eagle]

Without taking anything away from Belichick who I think is a great coach, he hasn't won a thing without Tom Brady who is one of the best QBs ever.  I guess you could say Bill Walsh didn't win without Montana or Young.

Maybe Joe Gibbs is the best HC ever ?  He won 3 Superbowls with 3 different QBs, none of whom are legendary.
How about that !

[Highboy]

CT Eagle, on 11 December 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Without taking anything away from Belichick who I think is a great coach, he hasn't won a thing without Tom Brady who is one of the best QBs ever.  I guess you could say Bill Walsh didn't win without Montana or Young.

Maybe Joe Gibbs is the best HC ever ?  He won 3 Superbowls with 3 different QBs, none of whom are legendary.
How about that !

Ha! Touche.

kitko60, on 10 December 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Still this question has yet to be answered...
You fire Reid...Who do you find, better than him, to replace him?  I don't think there's an answer to that question available and hopefully Lurie realizes that.
The Eagles are in a slump however all that, to me, comes down to one move, signing Vick.  He is a franchise killer.  With him gone, Reid can start to build us a winner!

Granted making Vick the starting QB was an all time gaffe but clearly at this point its more than just the QB. Seriously. Of course Reid has shown the ability to get production out of playing normal, balanced WCO with mediocre QBs and you'd think that with a legit starter Reid could win but its been 14 years and Reid has shown no interest at all in such things.

[mjkvol]

Rodney_Zero, on 11 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Parcells won every where he went, BB has'nt

Parcells won with the Giants, and that's it.   Belicheck's defense, and Siefert's coaching cowardice are what won it in '90.   Belicheck's defense got him to a SB in '96.   With the Jets and in Dallas, he won nothing.

Belicheck has won three Super Bowls without Parcells, and continues to have a dominant team, year in and year out .   How many playoff games did Parcells win without Belicheck running the defense?   Answer?    Zero, zilch, nada.

[mjkvol]

Highboy, on 11 December 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Granted making Vick the starting QB was an all time gaffe but clearly at this point its more than just the QB. Seriously. Of course Reid has shown the ability to get production out of playing normal, balanced WCO with mediocre QBs and you'd think that with a legit starter Reid could win but its been 14 years and Reid has shown no interest at all in such things.

So you're now saying that the guy you defended on here day in and day out, for years, wasn't a legit starter?

[mjkvol]

CT Eagle, on 11 December 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Without taking anything away from Belichick who I think is a great coach, he hasn't won a thing without Tom Brady who is one of the best QBs ever.

And who was it who drafted Brady, and replaced a local legend with him when he knew it was the best way to take the next step?        Doesn't that factor in to a coach's greatness?      Same can be said for Walsh and Jimmy Johnson, who drafted QB's to run their systems and produced greatness.

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 11 December 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

And who was it who drafted Brady, and replaced a local legend with him when he knew it was the best way to take the next step? Doesn't that factor in to a coach's greatness?   Same can be said for Walsh and Jimmy Johnson, who drafted QB's to run their systems and produced greatness.

First of all, Bobby Grier (and to some degree D Rehbein) were responsible for drafting Tom Brady.  If Belichick saw such greatness in Brady he wouldn't have waited 6 rounds to draft him. Belichick kew replacing Bledsoe was the best way to take the next step ?  Moe Lewis knocked Bledsoe out and they stuck with Brady.  
I think BB is a fantastic coach but lets be real.  He has done nothing without Brady.

[Highboy]

mjkvol, on 11 December 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

So you're now saying that the guy you defended on here day in and day out, for years, wasn't a legit starter?

I never said any QB was a legit starter. I had no idea. I simply knew Vick wasn't.

[Highboy]

mjkvol, on 11 December 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

And who was it who drafted Brady, and replaced a local legend with him when he knew it was the best way to take the next step? Doesn't that factor in to a coach's greatness?   Same can be said for Walsh and Jimmy Johnson, who drafted QB's to run their systems and produced greatness.

Of course it factors. A great coach is only as great as the players that are playing for him. Its why coaches coach and players play. Of course without Montana/Young Walsh wouldn't have been as successful. But it takes talent to evaluate talent.

[PoconoDon]

kitko60, on 10 December 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Still this question has yet to be answered...
You fire Reid...Who do you find, better than him, to replace him?  I don't think there's an answer to that question available and hopefully Lurie realizes that.
The Eagles are in a slump however all that, to me, comes down to one move, signing Vick.  He is a franchise killer.  With him gone, Reid can start to build us a winner!

The answer is...there's ALWAYS another guy........there really is. Maybe the first one doesn't work out, so keep trying till you get the right one. the Niners went through 4 head coaches in 4 years before settling on Bill Walsh...why/ because they had to keep going until they got a keeper.....and just like them, the right one you're going to get and who can get it done,  is always better than the one you had who couldn't get it done.

Oh yeah, and as always............none of it matters until they get the right GM/V.P. of Operations in place....everything goes as that position goes....Reid taught us that much....thanks Andy.

[mjkvol]

CT Eagle, on 11 December 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I think BB is a fantastic coach but lets be real.  He has done nothing without Brady.

That is an absurd conclusion.    One of the things that makes a fantastic coach is sound and gutty decision making.     An ordinary coach goes right back to Bledsoe, given his stature in New England.     Brady may have been a low pick, but Belicheck saw enough to make a permanent move after that injury, and stayed with the 6th round pick over the established star.

Whether he would have "done nothing" without Brady is irrelevant - the same could be said for virtually any great coach and the players they had.    That is the bitter loser talk of fans whose team hasn't had the same kind of success, or any real success for that matter.

[ckudrick]

Belichick went 11-5 with Matt Cassel starting in 2008 (and became only the second team since the NFL expanded to a 16-game season to miss the playoffs with 11 wins.)  Who knows what would have happened if they got in?

[PhillyPhan13]

Didn't Barry Switzer say something like, winning a superbowl is easy. The team with the best players wins and we had the best players?

[mjkvol]

ckudrick, on 12 December 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Belichick went 11-5 with Matt Cassel starting in 2008 (and became only the second team since the NFL expanded to a 16-game season to miss the playoffs with 11 wins.)  Who knows what would have happened if they got in?

Absolutely.  

This is one of those little things the Belicheck critics conveniently overlook.

[mjkvol]

PhillyPhan13, on 12 December 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

Didn't Barry Switzer say something like, winning a superbowl is easy. The team with the best players wins and we had the best players?

Yeah, but Switzer walked into the equivalent of taking over Apple right after the iPhone had been marketed and released.        That Cowboy team was a juggernaut, and will end up being the last truly great team we will ever see.

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 11 December 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

Whether he would have "done nothing" without Brady is irrelevant - the same could be said for virtually any great coach and the players they had.

That is why I floated Joe Gibbs' name.  The guy won 3 SBs with 3 different QBs that aren't worthy of sniffing Brady's jock.

[mjkvol]

CT Eagle, on 12 December 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

That is why I floated Joe Gibbs' name.  The guy won 3 SBs with 3 different QBs that aren't worthy of sniffing Brady's jock.

True, but in that way Gibbs is an anomoly, except that he won his titles in an era where great QB's weren't an absolute necessity, ala Parcells.      Nowadays, you might get one-offs like the Ravens and Bucs, but they had all world defenses, and played against sub par opponents in those Super Bowls.

Not taking anything away from any of them - I'd take any of those rings in a heartbeat.         And the one in 2003 should have been ours.

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 12 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

   And the one in 2003 should have been ours.

If only Pinkston didn't cramp up.....

[Highboy]

Its kind of a moot point isn't it? Not only do we not have the best coaches, we don't have the best talent. So we're not winning a SB for a while either way.

[Rodney_Zero]

mjkvol, on 11 December 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Granted the Pats haven't won since 2004, but do you seriously want to compare Belicheck's record since then to Reid's?

Seriously?

wasn'nt really compairing,

mjkvol, on 11 December 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Parcells won with the Giants, and that's it.   Belicheck's defense, and Siefert's coaching cowardice are what won it in '90.   Belicheck's defense got him to a SB in '96.   With the Jets and in Dallas, he won nothing
".Groh then reunited with Parcells in New England from 1993 to 1996 as the defensive coordinator", sorry, Al grolh was thei DC and LB coach, BB was the Sec coach

Belicheck has won three Super Bowls without Parcells, and continues to have a dominant team, year in and year out .   How many playoff games did Parcells win without Belicheck running the defense?   Answer?    Zero, zilch, nada.

Caoching Tree :
Parcells:
Couglin- 2 SB wins
Peyton- 1 SB win
Tony Sparano- pretty good coach
There's more but I can't remember


Belicheck:
Mangini- fired twice
Crennel about to be fired again
Josh Mcdaniels - fired
Charile Weiss- fired in college
Rob Ryan- overated
Bill Obrien- did pretty well considering the circumstances at Penn St.

[mjkvol]

Rodney_Zero, on 12 December 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

wasn'nt really compairing,

Caoching Tree :
Parcells:
Couglin- 2 SB wins
Peyton- 1 SB win
Tony Sparano- pretty good coach
There's more but I can't remember


Belicheck:
Mangini- fired twice
Crennel about to be fired again
Josh Mcdaniels - fired
Charile Weiss- fired in college
Rob Ryan- overated
Bill Obrien- did pretty well considering the circumstances at Penn St.

Tell you what, Rodney.      You can have your 'coaching tree', and I'll take the three Super Bowls and continued excellence.

[KOJO]

mjkvol, on 12 December 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Tell you what, Rodney.   You can have your 'coaching tree', and I'll take the three Super Bowls and continued excellence.

All that needs to be said really.