35 replies to this topic

[TravelerVic]

Everyone is stinking happy about a clutch win and I share the feelings, but common people!!!
The whole team stepped up!! If it was not for outstanding performances by Maclin, Avant, DRC, and others, we would not be even talking about Foles.
The rest of the team made him look more then he really is. He is a Rookie. He will have setbacks so let's not make him into a second coming of Tom Brady just yet.
Handling the blitz to me is a signature of starting NFL ready QB.
Not Tampa, nor Dallas are strong blitzing teams. Cincy ,Washington, and Giants are going to put a lot more pressure on the kid and then we can really judge if he can handle it.
If he takes a step up then Great!! But even if he takes a step back, it does not mean that he is not a good QB, but merely that he is still a rookie learning on the job.

[zenclaybourne]

TravelerVic, on 12 December 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

Everyone is stinking happy about a clutch win and I share the feelings, but common people!!!
The whole team stepped up!! If it was not for outstanding performances by Maclin, Avant, DRC, and others, we would not be even talking about Foles.
The rest of the team made him look more then he really is. He is a Rookie. He will have setbacks so let's not make him into a second coming of Tom Brady just yet.
Handling the blitz to me is a signature of starting NFL ready QB.
Not Tampa, nor Dallas are strong blitzing teams. Cincy ,Washington, and Giants are going to put a lot more pressure on the kid and then we can really judge if he can handle it.
If he takes a step up then Great!! But even if he takes a step back, it does not mean that he is not a good QB, but merely that he is still a rookie learning on the job.

While I certainly agree that he needs to be given time to develop, I find it odd that you would say the team made him look better. Maclin and Avant stepped up big time, but Brown and the line came up rather small. Clay Harbor and Riley Cooper played well too, but when half the offense is struggling how can you claim that the team as a whole raised up Foles?

As for the defense... they didn't get any turnovers for the offense. Four drive started past the Eagles 30, 1 past the Eagles 40 and that was set up by the Special Teams and a penalty. Henery missed two FGs, though one would have been good if it weren't for a false start that cost them five yards and was a hard kick anyway.

Foles certainly isn't the only one who played well, but that is no reason to discount how well he did play.

[italianmafia23]

I would be concerned if a QB didn't produce impressive stat figures on a day where he droppred back 60 times!!

[Lancelot Gobbo]

Who threw the passes to Macklin and Avant?

[tingblings]

This is what fans keep doing is discounting that he played a good game.  Not sure why fans are struggling so much to give the kid some credit.  I'm not saying he's Tom Brady and hell if he is even 1/3 of Tom Brady I'd be able to tolerate that for the next ten years lol.  That guy is something else.  Saying a guy only played great because his receivers stepped up is moronic.  Outside of the Avant catch most of the balls were thrown right into their bread baskets.

This one is a new argument to me.  Should we discount Brady's fifty touchdown season because Randy Moss played out of his mind?  Last week it was he played good only because of Bryce Brown.  I get he's a rookie which only makes Sunday's game more special.  I mean is Foles never allowed to expect his teamates to step up around him?  You don't think Demarius Thomas and Eric Decker stepped up their games with Manning.  You don't attribute some of their success to Peyton being around?  Does Rice's greatness discount how incredible Steve Young and Joe Montana were?  

I'm in no way comparing Foles to any of those QB's I just mentioned I'm just saying its not really fair to discount a QB's performance based on one of his receivers or tailbacks having a good game.  If he would have tossed those same numbers but the defense held the buccaneers to say 3 points would you have said oh well the defense stepped up.  Foles stepped up too and most of the time when your QB steps up the rest of the team follows suit.  Its the reason the Patriots are always going to be good as long as number 12 keeps picking defenses to shreds.  Just be happy for his good game and lets hope he keeps doing it.

[k9fiend]

Welcome to the EMB where either a player or a coach is a God or Bum no matter the circumstance.

[jonnyeagles12]

Jesus you really dont want him to do well do you. How did the team step up in anyway? Did you see our offensive line? Our running game? Our kicker? Defense in the second half?

And tampa arent a blitzing team? Sorry what? They blitzed Foles a lot and got through a lot. His pocket movement avoided a couple more sacks.

And to the guy who said he dropped back 60 times which apparently makes him have good stats. The fact he didnt turn the ball over once is even more impressive.

+ and Foles helped his receivers step up by throwing perfect throws on time to his receivers.

[tingblings]

k9fiend, on 12 December 2012 - 02:31 AM, said:

Welcome to the EMB where either a player or a coach is a God or Bum no matter the circumstance.

Not sure if this is a dig on me or the guy who started the thread.  I never said he was a god I said he played a great game.  All I said is you can't discount a quarterback's success because his receiver stepped up.  Your QB is the most important piece of the puzzle but he still can't do it all.  Am I excited for Foles yes.  There is nothing wrong with that.

[billfrancis]

Yup, he can do the pre-snaps reads, adjustments,audibles, and knows when to not run a Marty play when it counts, Avant run this route in huddle, last play run this out of a Rookie QB game #4 not bad,  1-3 record but progressing each game, sure needs work on long passes, but needs time as well, manages the game with poise! Cincy a better test for sure expect there D-line to apply pressure to middle of our O-line for sure.....Bucs came in thinking shut down run and we win....Foles not Vick and a lesser O-Line than what Vick played with....simply  put Vick poor QB choice to run Mudd O-Line scheme, MM clueless.....gonna enjoy last 3 games and Lurie review at end of season for sure....!!! Not a Knock on Vick who is a Super talented Athlete and wanted so bad to improve that part of his game, but pre-snaps reads, adjustments,audibles just not Vick's strong suite, I suspect Kelce helped Vick a lot when in there...poor utilizing of talent ( Vick ) by Coaching Staff again.....QB's like Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Aaron  Rodger's, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady see so much before snaps and adjust to the D before snaps none of them great runner's either.....seeing the D they are in and how to exploit it before the snap of the ball, or identifying it with quickness just after the snap of the ball, if they try to hide it pre-snap,  that's the difference....Foles knows he can't run and this is a Must for his game and craft, and each week Foles is getting better at it......The Whole Team got a Win in Tampa, now on to the next challenge....Bengals in the Link at our house...

[k9fiend]

tingblings, on 12 December 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

Not sure if this is a dig on me or the guy who started the thread.  I never said he was a god I said he played a great game.  All I said is you can't discount a quarterback's success because his receiver stepped up.  Your QB is the most important piece of the puzzle but he still can't do it all.  Am I excited for Foles yes.  There is nothing wrong with that.

Nope, not a dig on you, or the OP   Just a general statement about these boards, to many "Foles is the next Tom brady," Or "Nah he suckzors since it was Tampa Bay's 32 ranked secondary" types.  I would love to see Foles show continued improvement, and develop into something special. (If someone doesn't, then I question if they are really a fan of this team)  But there's a lot of work to be done, remember Kolb had a great drive against the Ravens Defense a couple years ago when he replaced D-Mac, then  had great games lighting it up against, KC and NO. Like Foles now, Kevin was the shiny new penny, who was the future and had HOF written all over to some... well look how that's turned out so far....

[The_Talon]

TravelerVic, on 12 December 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

Everyone is stinking happy about a clutch win and I share the feelings, but common people!!!
The whole team stepped up!! If it was not for outstanding performances by Maclin, Avant, DRC, and others, we would not be even talking about Foles.
The rest of the team made him look more then he really is. He is a Rookie. He will have setbacks so let's not make him into a second coming of Tom Brady just yet.
Handling the blitz to me is a signature of starting NFL ready QB.
Not Tampa, nor Dallas are strong blitzing teams. Cincy ,Washington, and Giants are going to put a lot more pressure on the kid and then we can really judge if he can handle it.
If he takes a step up then Great!! But even if he takes a step back, it does not mean that he is not a good QB, but merely that he is still a rookie learning on the job.

first off, of course he's an unproven rookie. But then again so are RGIII and Andrew Luck. So was everyone else that ever came into the league.

Secondly, it's a team game. No matter how great one player is, that one player rarely if ever wins a game by himself. It takes the other players out there with you to win. It's also about time those other players you mentioned stepped up.

[Cappeeler]

I know it hard to believe people but Foles is the real deal although he's not there yet.. Ya should be glad ya got em. I've been praying for a real QB and big RB for a long time. Both need work but I'll take it.

What if Avant says to Foles in the huddle "kid run the play that is called. Stop thinking out side the box."

[biglou22]

italianmafia23, on 12 December 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

I would be concerned if a QB didn't produce impressive stat figures on a day where he droppred back 60 times!!

The amount of drop backs, just like his stats has nothing to do with evaluating a rookie QB.
My god you can't be serious can you with that statement ???

Maybe you want to watch the game and understand situational football ???
Lets look at your 60 drop backs that you have such concern for and where soooo many came from.

**4:27 left until half time and Eagles get the ball at their own 20. My guess is ANY team with a young QB that they are trying to evaluate would be wanting to call lots of passes to see what the kid can do. At least that is what I would do and would hope the coach would do.
They scored a TD. Any problem with that decision ???
**0:28 left until half and the Eagles get the ball back at their own 26. Again, in evaluating a QB as a coach I certainly would call a pretty basic short pass to see if the player can break it for a big gain. If he does, you continue the drive. If it doesn't work you kneel down and end the half. As it turns out Lewis gained almost 30 yards. So you try a couple other PASS plays to get them in field goal range. They do.
Again, the main thing here is to EVALUATE YOUR ROOKIE QB in a tight situation. Handing the ball off sure as hell does NOTHING for a QB evaluation.
So on those 2 drives the Eagles ran 11 plays with 9 being drop backs.

Then with a little over 7:00 left in the game and down 2 scores the Eagles get the ball. I would assume you would understand that almost EVERY play would be a PASS play if they have any chance of getting the ball back. So what do they do ??
Run 23 plays with 2 plays being a spike and 1 a run. That means he dropped back 20 times in those 2 drives.
So out of those 60 drop backs that you have such an issue with, almost exactly half came at the end of the 1st half and at the end of the game when they had NO CHOICE but to pass every play.

Again, the amount of drop backs are 100% meaningless. But what is critical and the ONLY THING THAT mattered was how a rookie QB handled 2 desperate situations and 2 other critical situations.

Got it ??? Understand the basics ???

[biglou22]

Forget all the stats. Forget about wins and losses. The only thing fans should be looking at with Foles is.............

1 - does he appear secure and confident
2 - does he get rattled easily
3 - does he appear to have command of the huddle
4 - does he appear to understand what he sees when he comes to the LOS
5 - does he appear to be able to adjust at the LOS
6 - does he make his proper reads most times
7 - does he perform calmly under pressure in tight situations
8 - does his teammates appear to have confidence in his ability's.

Whether he drops back 30x or 60x means nothing. The situations will dictate that. not the player.
Whether he throws for 300 yds means nothing. There are great 300yd games and there are terrible 300yd games.
Whether he throws 3tds or none doesn't matter. To many things determine those things.
But the 8 things listed above never change. They will ALWAYS tell you about your QB.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

uMMMM Maybe just maybe foles is making them look better. No offense Maclin and Avant were basically MIA when Vick was out there. Moreover, Riley was not even heard of. I know desean got hurt but even when desean got hurt in the past or didn't play, Cooper did nothing. or very little

[wvjerome]

italianmafia23, on 12 December 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

I would be concerned if a QB didn't produce impressive stat figures on a day where he droppred back 60 times!!

See Vick's numbers from week 1.

[dilluminati]

This kid benefited from playing as many pre-season snaps as he did, and did not disapoint
The kid has benefited from the regular season play and did not disapoint

It is not as if the fans expect a playoff position from the play of Foles, we just want to see the game time decision making and reading the defense improve week to week which it has done.

Even if Foles goes out and has a bad week against the Bengals I'm still behind the guy and still keep in mind that he is a rookie
But at his height, with his poise, and with his arm in time he will develop some chemistry with some WR's
And if we can get anything like a healthy O-line back we would be in pretty good shape
Can Brown can do better at ball handling (4 point control)?

My thought on the opt, sit back and enjoy the rest of the season and allow Foles this unusual opportunity to grow
If anything good can come of the season it is these young players

[blindside]

Maclin and avant can't "play well" without the qb getting them the ball. Just saying..

[biglou22]

blindside, on 12 December 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Maclin and avant can't "play well" without the qb getting them the ball. Just saying..

Minor details my friend. lol

[eephraim]

He played well and deserved credit for it. Especially the last 2 scoring drives.

I wouldn't go annointing him yet though...we've seen this from Feeley and Kolb in the past. Sustained success is what makes a franchise QB. Time will tell the story here.

[f_dallas]

italianmafia23, on 12 December 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

I would be concerned if a QB didn't produce impressive stat figures on a day where he droppred back 60 times!!

Against literally the worst two pass defenses in the NFL.

I am rooting for Foles, but we need to throw some cold water on the hype.  They were good (not great, but very good) performances against two teams who have the absolute worst pass defenses in the NFL.

[odin8888]

TravelerVic, on 12 December 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

Everyone is stinking happy about a clutch win and I share the feelings, but common people!!!
The whole team stepped up!! If it was not for outstanding performances by Maclin, Avant, DRC, and others, we would not be even talking about Foles.
The rest of the team made him look more then he really is. He is a Rookie. He will have setbacks so let's not make him into a second coming of Tom Brady just yet.
Handling the blitz to me is a signature of starting NFL ready QB.
Not Tampa, nor Dallas are strong blitzing teams. Cincy ,Washington, and Giants are going to put a lot more pressure on the kid and then we can really judge if he can handle it.
If he takes a step up then Great!! But even if he takes a step back, it does not mean that he is not a good QB, but merely that he is still a rookie learning on the job.

Wow!!!! Negative much???

Yes, everybody knows he is a rookie learning on the job, so is RGIII, and LUCK who have had the entire season to play... Where is RGIII this week?
Only 1 starting O-line, backups everywhere and rallies the troops for two come from behind scores. Shockingly the defense gave us the ball back to make it possible!
This is a very tough game tomorrow night,.,.. can you just keep some perspective and support them?


Aikman went 1 - 15 in his first year, what would you be saying about him??? Get him out of town!!!!!????? sheeeeesh

[Cappeeler]

eephraim, on 12 December 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

He played well and deserved credit for it. Especially the last 2 scoring drives.

I wouldn't go annointing him yet though...we've seen this from Feeley and Kolb in the past. Sustained success is what makes a franchise QB. Time will tell the story here.

I for one NEVER seen Kolb or Feeley do what Nick done.

[Audit2]

biglou22, on 12 December 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

Forget all the stats. Forget about wins and losses. The only thing fans should be looking at with Foles is.............

1 - does he appear secure and confident
2 - does he get rattled easily
3 - does he appear to have command of the huddle
4 - does he appear to understand what he sees when he comes to the LOS
5 - does he appear to be able to adjust at the LOS
6 - does he make his proper reads most times
7 - does he perform calmly under pressure in tight situations
8 - does his teammates appear to have confidence in his ability's.

Whether he drops back 30x or 60x means nothing. The situations will dictate that. not the player.
Whether he throws for 300 yds means nothing. There are great 300yd games and there are terrible 300yd games.
Whether he throws 3tds or none doesn't matter. To many things determine those things.
But the 8 things listed above never change. They will ALWAYS tell you about your QB.

Kolb

[Audit2]

TravelerVic, on 12 December 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

Everyone is stinking happy about a clutch win and I share the feelings, but common people!!!
The whole team stepped up!! If it was not for outstanding performances by Maclin, Avant, DRC, and others, we would not be even talking about Foles.
The rest of the team made him look more then he really is. He is a Rookie. He will have setbacks so let's not make him into a second coming of Tom Brady just yet.
Handling the blitz to me is a signature of starting NFL ready QB.
Not Tampa, nor Dallas are strong blitzing teams. Cincy ,Washington, and Giants are going to put a lot more pressure on the kid and then we can really judge if he can handle it.
If he takes a step up then Great!! But even if he takes a step back, it does not mean that he is not a good QB, but merely that he is still a rookie learning on the job.

You nailed it!

[CountBlah]

OP is right,  only 10+ year vets on at least their second team ever have success in the NFL.

[Noodles Nebula]

CountBlah, on 12 December 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

OP is right,  only 10+ year vets on at least their second team ever have success in the NFL.

It's a come on occurrence.

[eglz1]

Audit2, on 12 December 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Kolb did not exhibit these things, certainly not as well as Foles.  You're welcome.

[CalgaryFan77]

italianmafia23, on 12 December 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

I would be concerned if a QB didn't produce impressive stat figures on a day where he droppred back 60 times!!

You aren't impressed with a QB who dropped back 60 times and had 0 turnovers?

And you can drop back a zillion times and still not lead two late drives to come from behind like that.  He is a rookie, he has not proven to a be a franchise player, or even the future QB for the Eagles yet. But if you weren't impressed by that game I have to wonder what would impress you from a rookie in his 4th start?

[DawkinsOwnage03]

Dear Vicknuthuggers, Vick is gone, done here in Philly.  Get over it.