21 replies to this topic

[mjkvol]

Just thinking about watching a second straight playoff chase and post season with the Eagles now keeping company with all the teams the true believers lectured us we would become if we had fired Reid 3-5 years ago, when it should have been done.

So much for becoming the Cleveland Browns - they're better than us at this point.

[PoconoDon]

Nothing really changes until Jeffrey fills these needs in exemplary fashion:

1.  GM/V.P. of Football Operations.

2. Rebuild Player Personnel Dept. from Directors down through scouts.

3. A H.C. with a rational approach to the game and an eye for assistant coaching talent.

4. A REAL franchise quarterback.

After that, it'll fall into place.............compromise in any way during any step, and the failure continues...same thing for skipping a step.

My focus as a fan is on Job #1 for Jeffrey Lurie.........what he does, or doesn't do, will tell me all I need to know about him and the future of this franchise.

[birdsfan15]

It's tough to even take solace in the Giants losing, as much as I'd like to, knowing how they're leaps and bounds ahead of the Eagles as a franchise right now. The two aren't even in the same stratosphere.

[mjkvol]

birdsfan15, on 16 December 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

It's tough to even take solace in the Giants losing, as much as I'd like to, knowing how they're leaps and bounds ahead of the Eagles as a franchise.  The two aren't even in the same stratosphere.

Fixed, and agreed.

[birdsfan15]

mjkvol, on 16 December 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

Fixed, and agreed.

I say "right now" assuming that Lurie ever sells the team and/or dies at some point.

[mjkvol]

PoconoDon, on 16 December 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Nothing really changes until Jeffrey fills these needs in exemplary fashion:

1.  GM/V.P. of Football Operations.

2. Rebuild Player Personnel Dept. from Directors down through scouts.

3. A H.C. with a rational approach to the game and an eye for assistant coaching talent.

4. A REAL franchise quarterback.

After that, it'll fall into place.............compromise in any way during any step, and the failure continues...same thing for skipping a step.

My focus as a fan is on Job #1 for Jeffrey Lurie.........what he does, or doesn't do, will tell me all I need to know about him and the future of this franchise.

I'd put the coach higher than that, Pocono.

Besides, we're not getting #1, and #2 is questionable, so 3 and 4 will have to do for the present.      

I believe the right coaching hire, with some of the present talent, will be a huge step in the right direction.      Just getting the current stench out of here will be an incredible relief.

[KOJO]

PoconoDon, on 16 December 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

4. A REAL franchise quarterback.

Cousins > Foles

Now the Redskins are drafting better backups than Eagles starters.

[PoconoDon]

mjkvol, on 16 December 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

I'd put the coach higher than that, Pocono.

Besides, we're not getting #1, and #2 is questionable, so 3 and 4 will have to do for the present.   

I believe the right coaching hire, with some of the present talent, will be a huge step in the right direction.   Just getting the current stench out of here will be an incredible relief.

MJ,

I agree that a breath of fresh air is long overdue and it can be revitalizing, but the simple model I pointed to is the most successful model in the NFL....it just keeps winning championships...IMO, it's the Eagle turn to do it the right way.

Whether or not Jeffrey does it is another matter, but I won't get excited about this team at all until I see it coming together properly.

That said, I don't expect to get excited about this team for a long, long time......if ever. Lurie can change that, but I don't think he is going to.....we're stuck with Roseman for years....and that will cripple everything else that follows on the list..hence, failure.

That's the way I see it.....when it comes to the top guy in football operations, great ones are the most rare commodity. As for coaches....it's a much bigger pool....so there's always another guy.

[mjkvol]

PoconoDon, on 16 December 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

MJ,

I agree that a breath of fresh air is long overdue and it can be revitalizing, but the simple model I pointed to is the most successful model in the NFL....it just keeps winning championships...IMO, it's the Eagle turn to do it the right way.

Whether or not Jeffrey does it is another matter, but I won't get excited about this team at all until I see it coming together properly.

That said, I don't expect to get excited about this team for a long, long time......if ever. Lurie can change that, but I don't think he is going to.....we're stuck with Roseman for years....and that will cripple everything else that follows on the list..hence, failure.

That's the way I see it.....when it comes to the top guy in football operations, great ones are the most rare commodity. As for coaches....it's a much bigger pool....so there's always another guy.

You know that I completely agree with your basic theory, and have said so over and over on here - it cannot be disputed, and one only has to look at teams that stay at the top year in and year out for evidence.

That said, it has been soooooo long with this oh-so-tired and stale philosophy, that change alone is enough to at least engage my support again.

Secondly, I absolutely don't agree that "there's always another guy".   Today, getting the right coach can make your franchise, even without that 'legendary' personnel guy. - the perfect case in point obviously being Belicheck.      Get a coach with a strong, sound plan, and you can draft based on that plan, and have success.     We have been drafting for a flawed, and in recent years inconsistent  plan, so even getting the right player usually wouldn't pan out.

In a perfect world, we would get both, but I'll settle right now for a good, solid coaching hire.      That, Lurie must get right ASAP.

[LacesOut]

PoconoDon, on 16 December 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Nothing really changes until Jeffrey fills these needs in exemplary fashion:

1.  GM/V.P. of Football Operations.

Did they maybe already have that guy, and he was hired by Indy this past off season?

[KOJO]

mjkvol, on 16 December 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

That said, it has been soooooo long with this oh-so-tired and stale philosophy, that change alone is enough to at least engage my support again.

In a perfect world, we would get both, but I'll settle right now for a good, solid coaching hire.   That, Lurie must get right ASAP.

Agreed. While I too agree with Pocono that it would be best to get that great personnel guy, even if it is Howie there's still at least a chance of success. The draft is such a crapshoot sometimes that he may pick good players even if by accident.

The way things are now though, we have no shot & never did. We were never going to win with Reid consistently running this thing into the ground with his myriad of flaws.

[mjkvol]

KOJO, on 17 December 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

Agreed. While I too agree with Pocono that it would be best to get that great personnel guy, even if it is Howie there's still at least a chance of success. The draft is such a crapshoot sometimes that he may pick good players even if by accident.

The way things are now though, we have no shot & never did. We were never going to win with Reid consistently running this thing into the ground with his myriad of flaws.

No doubt, but I'll go further than just having success by 'accident'.   Drafting for a sound, solid plan that maximizes the talent on hand, as opposed to a plan that satisfies a coach's ego, can't help but provide a good chance of success.   

How many 'historically great' GM's are around in the NFL? Maybe Thompson and Newsome?   Places like New England and Pittsburgh, more than anything else, have had rock solid plans in place, with rock solid coaching.   The Giants never had a legendary GM (Accorsi was one in his own mind), but always drafted with a solid plan in place, and when they got rid of the buffoon (Fassell) and brought in a coach with a clue, we saw what happened. Reese isn't 'legendary', but he drafts for a plan that works in big games.

We've drafted talent here that has been jammed into a horribly flawed system - bring in a coach with a sound plan, and watch this talent grow.   A perfect example is Graham - I hated the pick, mainly because I felt it was idiotic to waste a 1st round pick on a position we treated like hockey lines, with the incessant rotation. Add to that putting the guy inside as a rookie, then in the moronic DL system Reid made a condition of whatever defense was run, and what we saw couldn't have been more predictable.   Look at Graham now that he is in a sane system, and playing a normal rotation - maybe we have something there.

In McCoy and Brown, we have the makings of a great HB tandem.   We have skill at WR, and in Cox, Graham, Ryans, Kendricks, and a revitalized Cole, the core of a defense.    We have a guy with some tools at QB.    This thing isn't dead, but absolutely requires the right man to be brought in to run it, along with solid coordinators. Put that in place, and our rebuild doesn't have to be all that long.

Gotta get it right the first time, and that's where the pressure is much greater on Lurie than if he had made a move when he should have, 3-5 years ago.

[PoconoDon]

mjkvol, on 16 December 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

You know that I completely agree with your basic theory, and have said so over and over on here - it cannot be disputed, and one only has to look at teams that stay at the top year in and year out for evidence.

That said, it has been soooooo long with this oh-so-tired and stale philosophy, that change alone is enough to at least engage my support again.

Secondly, I absolutely don't agree that "there's always another guy".   Today, getting the right coach can make your franchise, even without that 'legendary' personnel guy. - the perfect case in point obviously being Belicheck.   Get a coach with a strong, sound plan, and you can draft based on that plan, and have success. We have been drafting for a flawed, and in recent years inconsistent  plan, so even getting the right player usually wouldn't pan out.

In a perfect world, we would get both, but I'll settle right now for a good, solid coaching hire.   That, Lurie must get right ASAP.

MJ,

I think I'll just agree to disagree on the point of there always being another guy. The reason I feel that way is I remember, and I'm sure you do too, that the Niners went through 4 head coaches in 4 years until settling on Bill Walsh. For them, there was another guy every year until they found one they thought could be great...and they were right. While I would prefer finding the great one first, I have no problem going through that process and I'm more confident that finding a great coach is easier than finding a great GM...there's just so many more to choose from. As we know, every great coach was a nobody until he got his chance....and with Belichick, until he got his second chance.

I'll concede that finding a Bill Belichick is hard to do and if the Eagles can, they'll  be in great shape there. I also believe that doing so will be exponentially harder if the person providing the majority of the input can't recognize great coaching when it's staring him in the face (Roseman). Additionally, even if the HC has a solid and rational plan, the GM may not provide him with the best players for that system and further cripple the coach's ability to lead successfully on the field. This is biggest concern to me because it lurks in the shadows and can undo so very much that on the surface, would otherwise appear to be in order. I just don't like confounding variables...lol.

All of that said, since finding a promising head coach is the easier of the two tasks, I'd be fine if Lurie at least accomplishes that this off-season because it clearly would be a positive step for the franchise, but I'll take it with a grain of salt, because from my perspective, it's only one ingredient in a championship recipe, and in the long run, I don't think it's necessarily the most important one....initially anyway.

[Rodney_Zero]

mjkvol, on 17 December 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

.

.

.    This thing isn't dead, but absolutely requires the right man to be brought in to run it, along with solid coordinators. .

with our front 7 pretty much in good shape except the SSLB spot, I would want Gus Bradley for HC, then maybe he could bring in Raheem Morris for DC job. Both are Tampa 2 disciples and our front 7 says Tampa 2 with our speed.

PoconoDon, on 17 December 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

MJ,

I think I'll just agree to disagree on the point of there always being another guy. The reason I feel that way is I remember, and I'm sure you do too, that the Niners went through 4 head coaches in 4 years until settling on Bill Walsh. For them, there was another guy every year until they found one they thought could be great...and they were right. .

.

A lot of teams do this, they lose their HC then just promote an assistant that the owner thinks can keep the success going, Dallas/Jerry Jones for example, or teams just hire anyone, esp cheap ones "thinking" they will be fine, see Tampa in the 80's and early 90's, Some teams are just stupid, like Oakland, why they hired their current HC is baffling.

[patpikunas]

Rodney_Zero, on 17 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

with our front 7 pretty much in good shape except the SSLB spot, I would want Gus Bradley for HC, then maybe he could bring in Raheem Morris for DC job. Both are Tampa 2 disciples and our front 7 says Tampa 2 with our speed.

A lot of teams do this, they lose their HC then just promote an assistant that the owner thinks can keep the success going, Dallas/Jerry Jones for example, or teams just hire anyone, esp cheap ones "thinking" they will be fine, see Tampa in the 80's and early 90's, Some teams are just stupid, like Oakland, why they hired their current HC is baffling.

We can always pray for Sean Payton....

[mjkvol]

PoconoDon, on 17 December 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

All of that said, since finding a promising head coach is the easier of the two tasks, I'd be fine if Lurie at least accomplishes that this off-season because it clearly would be a positive step for the franchise, but I'll take it with a grain of salt, because from my perspective, it's only one ingredient in a championship recipe, and in the long run, I don't think it's necessarily the most important one....initially anyway.

You and I clearly agree on the ideal recipe for lasting success, but it just isn't going to happen here, at least in the short run.

Tell you what - worst case short term scenario should be to find the right coach, and have Lurie realize that Roseman is in over his head with regard to providing the coach what he needs to succeed.

Best case scenario is that it actually works with Roseman and the new coach.

Hey, we can dream, can't we?  

[PoconoDon]

mjkvol, on 17 December 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

You and I clearly agree on the ideal recipe for lasting success, but it just isn't going to happen here, at least in the short run.

Tell you what - worst case short term scenario should be to find the right coach, and have Lurie realize that Roseman is in over his head with regard to providing the coach what he needs to succeed.

Best case scenario is that it actually works with Roseman and the new coach.

Hey, we can dream, can't we?  

Absolutely.

[Iggles]

What scares me is that Lurie thinks Howie Roseman knows how to draft players, and coaches.   Mock me all you want, but Tom Modrak was the only football insider guy Lurie ever hired, and he fired him a year later.  Modrak gave the Eagles the best OLB during the Reid era; Carlos Emmons.

Howie Roseman's 2010 draft was a complete disaster.  It was obvious Andy was out of favor when it was all defense.  Andy ALWAYS drafts an OL.  Where is the football guy in the Eagles org. higher than Andy Reid???   Jeff Lurie.....take lessons from Bob Kraft who owns your favorite team..   HIRE REAL FOOTBALL PROS TO RUN THE TEAM.  Trust experienced  NFL GM's, not lowly accountants to hire the next head coach.    Jeff, if you screw this up, you will be Norman Braman.

[DaveSpadaro]

I'm very interested to see what happens moving forward. Clearly, this football team has a lot of improvements to make and the Eagles certainly need to be precise with their decisions in the offseason. What changes will be made, exactly, I don't know. We shall see. Not much I can add to all of your opinions. I welcome the speculation and the opinions on which direction the team needs to take.

[patpikunas]

DaveSpadaro, on 18 December 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

I'm very interested to see what happens moving forward. Clearly, this football team has a lot of improvements to make and the Eagles certainly need to be precise with their decisions in the offseason. What changes will be made, exactly, I don't know. We shall see. Not much I can add to all of your opinions. I welcome the speculation and the opinions on which direction the team needs to take.

Lurie needs a big giant broom to sweep out the entire management on the football side of the operation.

From Reid and Howie all the way down. What a complete mess this has become and every Eagle employee should be embarassed at the product that the Org is selling.

OP said it correctly.... we are the Browns/Chiefs/Jags/Bills at this point.

[ronjeremyb]

mjkvol, on 16 December 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

I'd put the coach higher than that, Pocono.

Besides, we're not getting #1, and #2 is questionable, so 3 and 4 will have to do for the present.   

I believe the right coaching hire, with some of the present talent, will be a huge step in the right direction.   Just getting the current stench out of here will be an incredible relief.

Maybe up to 3 but you need one to get the HC. I do not trust the current regime in a coaching search. Nada. Zilch.

[mjkvol]

ronjeremyb, on 18 December 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

Maybe up to 3 but you need one to get the HC. I do not trust the current regime in a coaching search. Nada. Zilch.

I don't either, but it's all we have to go with right now.

Here's the bottom line, ron - the current dreck passing for a coaching stafff has to be removed, and all the associated baggage along with it.     Everything from that point on we can deal with when the time comes.

Sorry, but I can't deal with the national media take that we should just shut up, sit down, and be content with what we have.      Felt that way for years now.      Enough is enough - bring on the future, as long as it's completely Reid-free.