36 replies to this topic

[james1345]

Hey Dave, as much as I like McCoy, I didn't like the comment he made about 5 to 8 coaches who are better than Andy Reid. Can you please tell him to stop making comments like that?


Thanks Dave

[sirvalence]

uhm he is right so wtf is the problem with him saying that? everyone knows Reid is gone at season end including his players

and also what the hell makes you think Mccoy or any other player on the team for that matter will listen to what Dave asks then to do or not to do Dave has no authority over the team

[mjkvol]

McCoy said that?        Good for him - he just rose even further in my estimation, although I think he's still shortchanging a number of other coaches.

[KOJO]

mjkvol, on 21 December 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

McCoy said that? Good for him - he just rose even further in my estimation, although I think he's still shortchanging a number of other coaches.

No, it was actually quite the opposite:

Quote

“If you sat here and tried to name five to eight coaches that are better than Coach Reid, then I would like to hear them,” he said. “He’s a great coach. He gets blamed for everything. Sometimes when we break down the film and see the mistakes, you think, ‘How do you fault the coach for that?’”

OK, here goes: Coughlin, McCarthy, Tomlin, Belichick, Payton. That wasn't hard.

Not that you'd expect the players to say anything different, but I will be beyond jubilant when we no longer have to hear these ridiculous proclamations of Andy Reid's greatness- from anyone.

[Rodney_Zero]

I will only agree with Shady if one of those coaches is Ray Handley or Josh Mcdaniels

[james1345]

sirvalence, on 20 December 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

uhm he is right so wtf is the problem with him saying that? everyone knows Reid is gone at season end including his players

and also what the hell makes you think Mccoy or any other player on the team for that matter will listen to what Dave asks then to do or not to do Dave has no authority over the team

He said name 5 to 8 coaches that are better than Andy Reid. I didn't like that comment. We all know there is quite a few coaches who are better than Andy Reid.

[Nivraga]

james1345, on 22 December 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

He said name 5 to 8 coaches that are better than Andy Reid. I didn't like that comment. We all know there is think there are quite a few coaches who are better than Andy Reid.

Fixed - Whether there are or aren't better coaches then Andy Reid is subjective - opinion - debatable and impossible to prove. Most would assert that Bill Belichick is a better coach but how many Super Bowls would he have won without Tom Brady? How many would Andy Reid have won with the Eagles if he had Tom Brady? Payton - Brees? McCarthy - Rodgers? Tomlin - Rothlisberger? Coughlin - luck?

[DaveSpadaro]

You got it, James. Good stuff as always

[KOJO]

Nivraga, on 22 December 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

Fixed - Whether there are or aren't better coaches then Andy Reid is subjective - opinion - debatable and impossible to prove. Most would assert that Bill Belichick is a better coach but how many Super Bowls would he have won without Tom Brady? How many would Andy Reid have won with the Eagles if he had Tom Brady? Payton - Brees? McCarthy - Rodgers? Tomlin - Rothlisberger? Coughlin - luck?

Sure.

Like I said, I'll just be glad when we don't have to talk about this crap anymore. 2 more games to go. I hope.

[mjkvol]

Nivraga, on 22 December 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

Fixed - Whether there are or aren't better coaches then Andy Reid is subjective - opinion - debatable and impossible to prove. Most would assert that Bill Belichick is a better coach but how many Super Bowls would he have won without Tom Brady? How many would Andy Reid have won with the Eagles if he had Tom Brady? Payton - Brees? McCarthy - Rodgers? Tomlin - Rothlisberger? Coughlin - luck?

Listen, results are all that matter - excuses and rationalizations are for losers. It is in no way 'subjective' to suggest that there are many coaches better than Reid - records and results bear that out, even if not conveniently fitting your narrative.

Most would assert that Belicheck is better? Only nutty true believers wouldn't assert that stone cold fact.

Look at Reid's record post 2004, and tell me that is the record of someone who should even be mentioned with a straight face next to the championship coaches you mention.   Subjective?   Hardly.

[mjkvol]

KOJO, on 22 December 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

Like I said, I'll just be glad when we don't have to talk about this crap anymore. 2 more games to go. I hope.

Amen, brother.

They do go down fighting though, don't they?

[Nivraga]

mjkvol, on 22 December 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Listen, results are all that matter - excuses and rationalizations are for losers. It is in no way 'subjective' to suggest that there are many coaches better than Reid - records and results bear that out, even if not conveniently fitting your narrative.

Most would assert that Belicheck is better? Only nutty true believers wouldn't assert that stone cold fact.

Look at Reid's record post 2004, and tell me that is the record of someone who should even be mentioned with a straight face next to the championship coaches you mention.   Subjective?   Hardly.

Fact? NO - Belichick got lucky with Brady - Belichick was a disaster in Cleveland and was enroute to the same result in New England before Bledsoe got hurt. Kudo's to Bill for making the decision not to go back to Bledsoe. I know Andy Reid is directly responsible for the players on the roster - it's not like Belichick knew what he was getting when the Pats drafted Brady - Andy Reid took the best QB in the 1999 draft - partly because Cleveland passed on him - but it was his unfortunate luck that there was no P.Manning in that draft. I am of the opinion that Belichick is the better coach overall but the difference is closer than you obviously think - and it is a long way from fact. If you can't recognize that circumstance seperate them more than talent or ability than you are simply blind. Calling one coach "BETTER" than another strictly because of results is like giving the QB full credit for a win and full blame for a loss. A wise coach once said if you want to be a better coach - get better players.

[mjkvol]

Nivraga, on 22 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Fact? NO - Belichick got lucky with Brady - Belichick was a disaster in Cleveland and was enroute to the same result in New England before Bledsoe got hurt. Kudo's to Bill for making the decision not to go back to Bledsoe. I know Andy Reid is directly responsible for the players on the roster - it's not like Belichick knew what he was getting when the Pats drafted Brady - Andy Reid took the best QB in the 1999 draft - partly because Cleveland passed on him - but it was his unfortunate luck that there was no P.Manning in that draft. I am of the opinion that Belichick is the better coach overall but the difference is closer than you obviously think - and it is a long way from fact. If you can't recognize that circumstance seperate them more than talent or ability than you are simply blind. Calling one coach "BETTER" than another strictly because of results is like giving the QB full credit for a win and full blame for a loss. A wise coach once said if you want to be a better coach - get better players.

Sorry, but that is absolute bull***.        

I'm really weary of battling with Reid apologists for the last five years, and just can't wait to never have to see, read, or even think about him again.

I'll just say this - if you can look at Reid's record, compare it to Belicheck's, and then look at the series of lamebrain personnel and game day decisions Reid has made, and seriously suggest that he is even in the same stratosphere as Belicheck, you are either a totally blind partisan, certifiably insane, or both.

Go ahead and have the last word - I'm done here.

[dave moss]

I think there are 5-8 coaches better than Reid...

...in the lingerie league

ba-dum-dum

[Nivraga]

mjkvol, on 22 December 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

Sorry, but that is absolute bull***.

I'm really weary of battling with Reid apologists for the last five years, and just can't wait to never have to see, read, or even think about him again.

I'll just say this - if you can look at Reid's record, compare it to Belicheck's, and then look at the series of lamebrain personnel and game day decisions Reid has made, and seriously suggest that he is even in the same stratosphere as Belicheck, you are either a totally blind partisan, certifiably insane, or both.

Go ahead and have the last word - I'm done here.

Thanks for the last word ... I will ... why is it that when someone defends Andy Reid for inaccurate criticism that they are an apologist? How does that equate ... I'm not in anyway suggesting that Andy Reid should remain the HC of the Eagles ... I am totally on board and in favor of moving on from this era. But how can you not recognize that Belichick's success is directly tied to the ascension of Tom Brady - can you seriously say that if Andy Reid had Tom Brady instead of Donovan McNabb that the Eagles wouldn't have won a Super Bowl - or 3 - or more. Is Andy Reid flawed - yes - But I have no doubt that without Tom Brady, Bill Belichick spends that last 10 years as someone elses DC after another failed HC tenure in New England. I also have no doubt that with Tom Brady, Andy Reid would have won as many or more Super Bowls. So - assuming thats true - which I know you won't admit that it is - but assuming it is - how do you differentiate between the 2? How do you claim one better than the other? As I said - circumstance seperates Reid and Belichick more than anything.

To not acknowledge that is stubborness.
To not recognize that is stupidity.

Bill Belichick is far superior on game day.
Andy Reid - considering how bad he can be on game day - must be far superior in preparation - there is no way this team wins as much as they did and so consistently after the bye if this is not true.

[Rome]

james1345, on 22 December 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

He said name 5 to 8 coaches that are better than Andy Reid. I didn't like that comment. We all know there is quite a few coaches who are better than Andy Reid.

It's times like this I wish the Mayans were right.

[patpikunas]

Nivraga, on 22 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Fact? NO - Belichick got lucky with Brady - Belichick was a disaster in Cleveland and was enroute to the same result in New England before Bledsoe got hurt. Kudo's to Bill for making the decision not to go back to Bledsoe. I know Andy Reid is directly responsible for the players on the roster - it's not like Belichick knew what he was getting when the Pats drafted Brady - Andy Reid took the best QB in the 1999 draft - partly because Cleveland passed on him - but it was his unfortunate luck that there was no P.Manning in that draft. I am of the opinion that Belichick is the better coach overall but the difference is closer than you obviously think - and it is a long way from fact. If you can't recognize that circumstance seperate them more than talent or ability than you are simply blind. Calling one coach "BETTER" than another strictly because of results is like giving the QB full credit for a win and full blame for a loss. A wise coach once said if you want to be a better coach - get better players.

WHose job is it to pick the QB?

Reid can't blame that on anyone but himself. He chose personally every QB that has played under him.

It is by far the most important choice a HC has to make. He is the leader and in that capacity he has been a failure over the past 6 years. The numbers do not lie. To suggest that the other coaches who have won Superbowls in the last 14 years are just lucky is ridiculous

[Nivraga]

patpikunas, on 23 December 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

WHose job is it to pick the QB?

Reid can't blame that on anyone but himself. He chose personally every QB that has played under him.

It is by far the most important choice a HC has to make. He is the leader and in that capacity he has been a failure over the past 6 years. The numbers do not lie. To suggest that the other coaches who have won Superbowls in the last 14 years are just lucky is ridiculous

I don't flame much ... but are you a moron? Reid took the best QB available to him. McNabb was a pretty good QB but not good enough - not as good as Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers. As I said the difference between Reid and Belichick is more circumstance than anything. If Belichick had any real idea of what Brady would become he would have taken him in the first round. If Bledsoe didn't get hurt Belichick may have been fired before anyone knew Brady's talent - in that regard Belichick did get lucky. I am not saying that Belichick stinks but he was a disaster in Cleveland - the word idiot was tossed around generously. The circumstance in Cleveland was that they never found a franchise QB.

What happens to the Packers if the 9ers take Rodgers instead of Smith? What happens to New Orleans if San Diego decides to stick with Brees instead of taking Manning and trading for Rivers. Yes - Andy Reid drafted McNabb and stuck with him - good decision / bad decision - it's still a matter of circumstance. In 1998 the Colts selected Peyton Manning #1 overall - you can fault San Diego for selecting Ryan Leaf but you can not fault them for not selecting Peyton Manning - he wasn't available to them.

The 2013 draft is bereft of any franchise QB talent - sure there might be a diamond in the ruff that none of us amatuer draftniks are aware of - but no one screaming to be drafted #1 overall like 2012. So what becomes of the Eagles next HC if Nick Foles turns out to be just an OK starter and the draft well remains dry for the next 4 years? He likely will be let go and another HC hired. Will that mean he was a bad HC - maybe - or maybe like Belichick in Cleveland it is just the circumstance of not having a franchise QB available that prevents him from having success.

[djbigf]

Nivraga, on 22 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Fact? NO - Belichick got lucky with Brady - Belichick was a disaster in Cleveland and was enroute to the same result in New England before Bledsoe got hurt. Kudo's to Bill for making the decision not to go back to Bledsoe. I know Andy Reid is directly responsible for the players on the roster - it's not like Belichick knew what he was getting when the Pats drafted Brady - Andy Reid took the best QB in the 1999 draft - partly because Cleveland passed on him - but it was his unfortunate luck that there was no P.Manning in that draft. I am of the opinion that Belichick is the better coach overall but the difference is closer than you obviously think - and it is a long way from fact. If you can't recognize that circumstance seperate them more than talent or ability than you are simply blind. Calling one coach "BETTER" than another strictly because of results is like giving the QB full credit for a win and full blame for a loss. A wise coach once said if you want to be a better coach - get better players.

andy reid's been getting his own players since 2002, which is why he's getting fired in 2012.

[mjkvol]

Nivraga, on 24 December 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

I don't flame much ... but are you a moron?

I (and pat) attempted to keep this civil, but since you went there ....... the only moron here is you, for attempting, in any way, shape, matter, or form, to compare a coach who has been nothing more than mediocre for the last 8 of a 14 (!) year stay which has produced zero championships, with a first ballot Hall of Famer, and a top 5 all-time coach on any rational list.      In fact, 'moron' doesn't quite go far enough.

Every one of your "what if's" and other idiotic rationalizations are nothing more than envious, bitter, loser talk.        Yes, great coaches have great players, but anyone who doesn't understand that goes both ways is a clueless nitwit.      Where would Montana have been without Walsh?        Bradshaw without Noll?       Aikman without Johnson?       Brees without Payton?   And yes, Brady without Belicheck?       The most likely scenario if Reid had drafted Brady is that he would have traded him for a 3rd round pick, the fawning true believers and national media would call him a QB Guru, and Reid would have gone with someone like Vick.       Belicheck saw enough to replace a local legend and first round overall pick - the rest is history.

Before commencing with name calling, please get a f****ng clue.

[PoconoDon]

Nivraga,

  I think when we consider coaching prowess, we should include a few things beyond the talent level of the Quarterback. Yes, it's #1, but it's not all there is. Archie Manning was every bit as talented a QB as either of his sons...or Brady for that matter...but he had bad coaching and a terrible team around him his whole career...he couldn't do it alone.

  We should look at: Game planning, in game adjustments, the talent of the other 21 positions on offense and defense, and most importantly, fitting your scheme, strategy, and tactics to your players in an ULTRA disciplined manner, so you can maximize productivity and minimize mistakes and wasted plays.

  That is the area where I believe Bill Belichick exponentially outshines Andy Reid.  It's why we, the media, and just about everyone else points to Brady as the big-to-only reason they win it all...and that's just not correct. The Patriots have a history under Belichick of simply not making mistakes...especially in the most critical moments....and then waiting around for you to make one so they can hurt you with it....then they do it again....and again....and again....That's all coaching...in fact, that's GREAT coaching...something Reid cannot consistently produce. His teams are generally undisciplined, mistake prone, and because of his incredibly blind eye for talent...over-matched on a weekly basis at numerous positions.

Andy Reid was a good Head Football Coach.....but he wasn't a great one.....He was an average to below average game day strategist.....he was unwavering in the stubbornness and arrogance of his approach....and his ability as a GM was downright TERRIBLE. Add it all up and you have his legacy.....a guy who's results were often self-defeating and simply not good enough.

My sentiment is...Thanks for trying Andy.....and goodbye.

[mjkvol]

PoconoDon, on 24 December 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Andy Reid was a good Head Football Coach.....but he wasn't a great one.....He was an average to below average game day strategist.....he was unwavering in the stubbornness and arrogance of his approach....and his ability as a GM was downright TERRIBLE. Add it all up and you have his legacy.....a guy who's results were often self-defeating and simply not good enough.

My sentiment is...Thanks for trying Andy.....and goodbye.

My sentiment is.....don't let the door hit your a** on the way out, and please take another coaching job ASAP.

Pocono, I just couldn't respond as thoughtfully as you once this guy commenced with name calling to defend his utterly ridiculous assertion. Think about the fact that we've been making the same damn arguments with true believers for 5-6 years now, and there are still those who think this franchise owes Reid something, and who actually want to include him among the great (!) coaches. Allowing him to remain for the last eight mediocre years have been payback with a ton of interest.

Hey, you and your family have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. (which will be extremely happy if we are starting a coaching search next week )

[PoconoDon]

mjkvol, on 24 December 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

My sentiment is.....don't let the door hit your a** on the way out, and please take another coaching job ASAP.

Pocono, I just couldn't respond as thoughtfully as you once this guy commenced with name calling to defend his utterly ridiculous assertion. Think about the fact that we've been making the same damn arguments with true believers for 5-6 years now, and there are still those who think this franchise owes Reid something, and who actually want to include him among the great (!) coaches. Allowing him to remain for the last eight mediocre years have been payback with a ton of interest.

Hey, you and your family have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. (which will be extremely happy if we are starting a coaching search next week )

I'm just relaxed because the egg nog is kicking in..lol!

Same to you and you family MJ!

I believe the official coaching search will commence next Sunday night......and I'm resigned to the fact that Roseman will be doing most of the searching....he may become to me, what Reid was to you....time will tell.

[mjkvol]

PoconoDon, on 24 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

I'm just relaxed because the egg nog is kicking in..lol!

Same to you and you family MJ!

I believe the official coaching search will commence next Sunday night......and I'm resigned to the fact that Roseman will be doing most of the searching....he may become to me, what Reid was to you....time will tell.

The sooner referring to Reid in the past tense becomes reality, the better!

You know I'm 100% with you on Roseman - right now I'll be happy just knowing Lurie hasn't decided Reid is the 'NFL guy' we both feel is a necessity in the FO.

One battle at a time!

[KOJO]

mjkvol, on 24 December 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

The sooner referring to Reid in the past tense becomes reality, the better!

I plan on devoting all of next Monday to rejoicing at the fact that we'll finally be getting out team back (at least in part). The only question is whether or not it will eclipse the level of happiness exhibited by Op when McNabb was traded.

[Highboy]

I think the point Nirvaga orwhatevertheF was trying to make, rightly or wrongly, is that Belichek was nothing  before Brady. The talent it took for Bill to make the evaluation of Brady and go with him over a legend wasn't so much an evaluation but stemmed from Bledsoe getting hurt and Brady getting a shot in a live NFL game at showing off his skills. The rest is history. The point is valid that anyone can say Walsh wouldn't have been the successful coach he was without Montana, etc etc, but Belichek had nearly zero success has a head coach before Brady, who got his shot as the result of an injured Bledsoe.

Of course I'm not saying Reid is on par with Belichek, and of course I want Reid gone. Enough is enough and enough has been enough for quite some time. But in the NFL, circumstances absolutely DO dictate some of what transpires over the course of a career or even a franchise. That's just a fact. But before mjkvol starts foaming at the mouth over what is obvious truth, Brady wasn't the only factor in Belichek's 3 rings. His ridiculously complex defense and the assistant coaches he put together had as much to do with it as anything and that is where his credit is due. Charlie Weiss, Romeo Crennel, and others may have went on and have been train wrecks in other endeavors but as a coaching unit under BB it was a perfect meld. The smartest thing Reid ever did was make Jim Johnson DC and that was about the only good coaching talent he was able to scout.

[ckudrick]

mjkvol, on 24 December 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Pocono, I just couldn't respond as thoughtfully as you once this guy commenced with name calling to defend his utterly ridiculous assertion.  

You've been calling anyone who disagrees with your opinion of Reid an "apologist" and a "true believer" quite derisively/condescendingly for a few years now and you get upset when someone else call you a moron?

[KOJO]

ckudrick, on 24 December 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

You've been calling anyone who disagrees with your opinion of Reid an "apologist" and a "true believer" quite derisively/condescendingly for a few years now and you get upset when someone else call you a moron?

Facts are facts. Calling the people who sucked off Reid & this FO for years apologists or true believers is mild. Not to mention 100% on the money.

[mjkvol]

KOJO, on 24 December 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

I plan on devoting all of next Monday to rejoicing at the fact that we'll finally be getting out team back (at least in part). The only question is whether or not it will eclipse the level of happiness exhibited by Op when McNabb was traded.

It'll blow that away!  

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family, KO.

[mjkvol]

ckudrick, on 24 December 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

You've been calling anyone who disagrees with your opinion of Reid an "apologist" and a "true believer" quite derisively/condescendingly for a few years now and you get upset when someone else call you a moron?

1.  He didn't call me a moron. Read the thread.

2.  If you take terms like 'apologist' and 'true believer' that strongly, they must strike a chord and have a certain level of truth to them.   Defending a coach barely above .500 for the last eight years, and seriously believing we can't do better might bring on that kind of 'sensitivity'.