55 replies to this topic

[RedskinsFan01]

Pegger, on 22 December 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

id have to agree. He's been doing it forever and always got overlooked by Uracher and Willis.

He's mainly been overshadowed by Ray Lewis but if you compare stats Fletcher is better in almost every category except career sacks

[dawkins4prez]

Aeneas Williams.

[rocketman44]

Great replies...as for Starr, I think the reason he's on this list is because he tends to be overshadowed by Unitas and Namath, and perhaps even by Don Meredith, who went on to do MNF. But I can certainly see why many people would disagree with his being on this list at all, much less at the top spot, since he was a first-ballot HOF'er.

I do agree with the replies that mentioned Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, and London Fletcher, and guys like Seth Joyner too. Fact is, a Top 10 in this category just isn't enough.

The NFLN list did include a "best of the rest", but none of those players were on it. I forget who was - which, sadly, people tend to do with underrated players.

[EccentricGreen]

I think all purpose backs are always going to be underrated due to being a "jack of all trades".  When your good at one thing you notoriety of that one thing but when you do a lot of things good sometimes that gets overlooked.

[skippyx]

Terrell Davis - The man had a 1000 yard season called his 8 Playoff games. (yes he was a 2K pace playoff runner)

• TD 5.6 per carry in the playoffs and 12 TDs in 8 playoff games,
  
• Barry Sanders 4.24 per carry and 1 TD in 6 games
  
• Bettis 3.4 per carry and 9 TDs in 14 games.
  
• Martin 4.4 per carry and 8 TDs in 10 games,
  
• Walter Payton 3.5 per carry and 2 TDs in 9 games.
  
• Eric Dickerson 4.9 per carry and 4 TDs in 7 games.
  
• Marcus Allen 5.0 per carry and 13 TDs in 16 games.
  
• Thurman Thomas 4.25 per carry and 21 TDs in 21 games.

Cunningham - He redefined the position and had multiple (3 or 4) MVP level seasons.
From 87 to 90 he threw for more yards (13460 to 12137) and more TDs ( 98 to 84) than Jim Kelly.
Cunningham also ran for 2692 and 18 scores in those seasons.

Kelly gets credit for 4 SBs when Reich won 2 of those playoff games (including the biggest one) and Kelly was awful (20 TDs to 28 INTS)
Reich was 7 TDs to 3 INTS with the exact same team. (117 rating in his two starts)
Without a doubt he is the worst QB in Super Bowl history (2 TDs to 7 INTs)
His AFCCG numbers are almost as putrid (5 TDs to 11 INTs)
The guy was carried by HoF coach, 2 WRs, RB, and a stud O-line.
Ignorant clowns put Kelly in first ballot and pass on Cunningham when they cut down to 40 in voting based on Gary Anderson, fog, Greg Garrity and Ron Johnson?
Kelly's playoff rating was lower than Tony Banks' regular season rating.

If you get the concept of strength of schedule in College Football (think SEC schools) then think abut Cunningham's NFC East.
6 Superbowls during his Eagles Career - DC 1987, 1991 NY 1985, 1990 Dallas 1992, 1993, 1995.
What did Kelly do when he played those 3 teams in the Super Bowl?


Stanley Morgan - 10 K yards in the 70s to 80s era, 19.6 PER CATCH!


Ray Guy - How does a 7 time pro bowl player with 3 SB rings and 15 playoff wins as a starter not get in the hall?
Answer: Morons vote for the inductions.


If you want to talk corner, how about these 4 guys:
Eric Allen, Dave Brown, Ken Riley and Everson Walls.

[BillySims]

Marvin Harrison belongs on the most OVERRATED list. People were calling him the "best receiver in football" when he played, and we've since learned that Peyton Manning can make any group of receivers look great.

When Harrison retired, Manning didn't miss a beat.

[skippyx]

Harrison was seen as a timing route guy who stepped out of bounds early.
He was also very anti-social. He was not friends with anyone on the team and treated his job like a punch-in punch-out affair.
He also went back to Philly and killed someone or had someone killed, so there is that too.

http://www.gq.com/sp...marvin-harrison

[Pegger]

RedskinsFan01, on 22 December 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

He's mainly been overshadowed by Ray Lewis but if you compare stats Fletcher is better in almost every category except career sacks

i was referring to probowls. As a Redskin he's always been third fiddle in behind the two I mentioned.

[The_Talon]

Regal, on 21 December 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Seth Joyner should be on that list. He's one of the best LBs ever, yet no one ever mentions him outside of Philly.

I'd put Byron Evans on there before Seth Joyner.

rocketman44, on 21 December 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

For the first time last night (I'm sure it's aired before) I watched another installment in the series of "Top 10" on the NFL Network. These somewhat annoying (they interview the same people all the time) and sometimes downright silly programs (Top 10 Uniforms included Cheerleaders'  and Pop Warner League uniforms) do occasionally prove interesting.

Here's the Top 10 Most Underrated Players according to NFL Network:

10. Len Dawson
  9. Brian Westbrook
  8. Ken Anderson
  7. Randall Cunningham
  6. Marvin Harrison
  5. Andre Reed
  4. Ottis Anderson
  3. Charles Haley
  2. Roger Craig
  1. Bart Starr

Mostly, I'd agree with this list, though I might be inclined to elevate Len Dawson and lower Marvin Harrison (who, to me, may have been overlooked mainly due to not being a big mouth a la Terrell Owens and Randy Moss), but I think it's a pretty sound listing.

I definitely agree with the ranking of Ottis Anderson, who was one heck of a back with the 1980s Cardinals and was MVP of Super Bowl XXV late in his career. He was Rookie Of The Year, Comeback Player Of The Year ten years later, and rushed for 10,273 yards and 86 TDs. I think he's underrated because, in my experience, he's seldom mentioned in discussions of great running backs.

I'm looking for some opinions, even if you didn't see the program. Is there anyone you'd add/delete to/from this list? Are there any you strongly agree/disagree with?

I don't know, if you got a ring, you get a pass from a list like this. So take off several names. Just my opinion.

[CharGP02A]

Bart Starr, #1, really? I dunno about that one.

[rocketman44]

skippyx, on 23 December 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

Terrell Davis - The man had a 1000 yard season called his 8 Playoff games. (yes he was a 2K pace playoff runner)

• TD 5.6 per carry in the playoffs and 12 TDs in 8 playoff games,
  
• Barry Sanders 4.24 per carry and 1 TD in 6 games
  
• Bettis 3.4 per carry and 9 TDs in 14 games.
  
• Martin 4.4 per carry and 8 TDs in 10 games,
  
• Walter Payton 3.5 per carry and 2 TDs in 9 games.
  
• Eric Dickerson 4.9 per carry and 4 TDs in 7 games.
  
• Marcus Allen 5.0 per carry and 13 TDs in 16 games.
  
• Thurman Thomas 4.25 per carry and 21 TDs in 21 games.

Cunningham - He redefined the position and had multiple (3 or 4) MVP level seasons.
From 87 to 90 he threw for more yards (13460 to 12137) and more TDs ( 98 to 84) than Jim Kelly.
Cunningham also ran for 2692 and 18 scores in those seasons.

Kelly gets credit for 4 SBs when Reich won 2 of those playoff games (including the biggest one) and Kelly was awful (20 TDs to 28 INTS)
Reich was 7 TDs to 3 INTS with the exact same team. (117 rating in his two starts)
Without a doubt he is the worst QB in Super Bowl history (2 TDs to 7 INTs)
His AFCCG numbers are almost as putrid (5 TDs to 11 INTs)
The guy was carried by HoF coach, 2 WRs, RB, and a stud O-line.
Ignorant clowns put Kelly in first ballot and pass on Cunningham when they cut down to 40 in voting based on Gary Anderson, fog, Greg Garrity and Ron Johnson?
Kelly's playoff rating was lower than Tony Banks' regular season rating.

If you get the concept of strength of schedule in College Football (think SEC schools) then think abut Cunningham's NFC East.
6 Superbowls during his Eagles Career - DC 1987, 1991 NY 1985, 1990 Dallas 1992, 1993, 1995.
What did Kelly do when he played those 3 teams in the Super Bowl?


Stanley Morgan - 10 K yards in the 70s to 80s era, 19.6 PER CATCH!


Ray Guy - How does a 7 time pro bowl player with 3 SB rings and 15 playoff wins as a starter not get in the hall?
Answer: Morons vote for the inductions.


If you want to talk corner, how about these 4 guys:
Eric Allen, Dave Brown, Ken Riley and Everson Walls.

A friend and I this weekend were discussing the huge challenge that the NFC East (and NFC in general) posed during the Cunningham era. We were talking about the fact that the Bills lost 4 straight Super Bowls, and every one was to an NFC East team. So yes, as skippyx mentions, Cunningham toiled in one heck of a tough division.

Add the Niners and Bears to the mix, and it's clear that the NFC was not only the better conference, but could well have had the four, maybe five best teams in the NFL. Amid all that, Cunningham and the Eagles were trying to get their share of wins.

[Utebird]

andre waters, guy had an impressive career but never made a pro bowl, because back when he played pro bowl was voted by the players and coaches and players thought waters was dirty because he was an ankle biter, where as guys like sanders of the colts wom defensive mvp taking out guys ankles.

also a couple of other guys that had good careers that dont get much love outside of their homes are henry ellard of the rams and redskins and terry allen of the vikings and redskins. both had pretty good careers especially ellard and no one ever mentions him as a top receiver.

[rocketman44]

Utebird, on 25 December 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

andre waters, guy had an impressive career but never made a pro bowl, because back when he played pro bowl was voted by the players and coaches and players thought waters was dirty because he was an ankle biter, where as guys like sanders of the colts wom defensive mvp taking out guys ankles.

also a couple of other guys that had good careers that dont get much love outside of their homes are henry ellard of the rams and redskins and terry allen of the vikings and redskins. both had pretty good careers especially ellard and no one ever mentions him as a top receiver.

Two good finds...

Ellard's career stats: 814 receptions, 13,777 yards 65 TDs Pretty impressive, and yes, he seldom gets mentioned.

Allen's career stats: 2152 attempts   8,614 yards  73 TDs  204 receptions 1601 yards. Good stats, and probably underrated, but I think Ellard would be the more likely to make the list of underrated players.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

Stephen1, on 21 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

not sure how Bart Starr is underrated, I believe he was a 1st Ballot HOFer and is considered an all-time great.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. How is Bart Starr underrated? Maybe by kids that believe that the NFL began in 1995 or something of that sort.

Unless they're talking about Bart Starr the coach, in which case I don't see how he'd be considered "underrated", he was a pretty bad coach lol.

[lb7]

rocketman44, on 21 December 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

For the first time last night (I'm sure it's aired before) I watched another installment in the series of "Top 10" on the NFL Network. These somewhat annoying (they interview the same people all the time) and sometimes downright silly programs (Top 10 Uniforms included Cheerleaders'  and Pop Warner League uniforms) do occasionally prove interesting.

Here's the Top 10 Most Underrated Players according to NFL Network:

10. Len Dawson
  9. Brian Westbrook
  8. Ken Anderson
  7. Randall Cunningham
  6. Marvin Harrison
  5. Andre Reed
  4. Ottis Anderson
  3. Charles Haley
  2. Roger Craig
  1. Bart Starr

Mostly, I'd agree with this list, though I might be inclined to elevate Len Dawson and lower Marvin Harrison (who, to me, may have been overlooked mainly due to not being a big mouth a la Terrell Owens and Randy Moss), but I think it's a pretty sound listing.

I definitely agree with the ranking of Ottis Anderson, who was one heck of a back with the 1980s Cardinals and was MVP of Super Bowl XXV late in his career. He was Rookie Of The Year, Comeback Player Of The Year ten years later, and rushed for 10,273 yards and 86 TDs. I think he's underrated because, in my experience, he's seldom mentioned in discussions of great running backs.

I'm looking for some opinions, even if you didn't see the program. Is there anyone you'd add/delete to/from this list? Are there any you strongly agree/disagree with?

I always thought that Bernie Kosar was very underrated. Most of his career he was pulling a rabbit out of his hat; I remember him doing some amazing things.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

lb7, on 25 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

I always thought that Bernie Kosar was very underrated. Most of his career he was pulling a rabbit out of his hat; I remember him doing some amazing things.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of many, if any things that stand out from his career.

[pdmkob]

VaBeach_Eagle, on 25 December 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. How is Bart Starr underrated? Maybe by kids that believe that the NFL began in 1995 or something of that sort.

Unless they're talking about Bart Starr the coach, in which case I don't see how he'd be considered "underrated", he was a pretty bad coach lol.

Bart Star probably makes the list because of the fact that when they speak about the greatest QB's of all time he isnt even mentioned????

or even his own era

[VaBeach_Eagle]

pdmkob, on 26 December 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Bart Star probably makes the list because of the fact that when they speak about the greatest QB's of all time he isnt even mentioned????

or even his own era

Then "they" are the ones underrating him.

[L.E.]

Kinda surprised to see Starr on the list. He's one of the first historic players I learned about as a kid.

[Rodney_Zero]

Joe Klecko- gastineau got all the pub, Klecko was a warrior, only player to be selected tp the Pro Bowl at 3 different positions (DT, NT and DE)

Carl Banks- All the talk on Giants LB's in the 80's was all LT and Carson, Banks was the anchor of that D IMO

Wilber Marshall- Much like Banks he too was lost in the love of the Fridge, Dent and Singletary, Marshall was very much like Carl Banks

[NorCalEagle]

Rodney_Zero, on 27 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Joe Klecko- gastineau got all the pub, Klecko was a warrior, only player to be selected tp the Pro Bowl at 3 different positions (DT, NT and DE)

he also was a car jack in the movie cannonball run...

[Rodney_Zero]

Rodney_Zero, on 27 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Joe Klecko- gastineau got all the pub, Klecko was a warrior, only player to be selected tp the Pro Bowl at 3 different positions (DT, NT and DE)

Carl Banks- All the talk on Giants LB's in the 80's was all LT and Carson, Banks was the anchor of that D IMO

Wilber Marshall- Much like Banks he too was lost in the love of the Fridge, Dent and Singletary, Marshall was very much like Carl Banks

Two others:

Leslie O'Neil, great DE

Neil Smith, another great DE

NorCalEagle, on 27 December 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

he also was a car jack in the movie cannonball run...

Good fun fact

[skippyx]

Kosar was 26 for 41 for 341 yards 3 TDs and 1 INT in a championship game.
All everyone remembers is the fumble by Byner.

He also put the 1993 NFC Championship Game out of reach with a long TD drive when Aikman got hurt.

He was 0-3 vs Elway in championship games, so that leaves a mark. (the drive, the fumble, a butt kicking)

[HaroldTheSecond]

Tim Tebow!

[Rodney_Zero]

Nnamdi Pamdi, on 22 December 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Aeneas Williams.

This guy  was good

[skippyx]

Anyone who does not vote for Aeneas Williams should no longer have a right to vote.
The guy made 8 pro bowls, 3 all pros and had 55 INTs.

Forget all of that...

HE HAS 6 INTS IN 6 CAREER PLAYOFF GAMES!

He scored more playoff TDs than Barry Sanders (2 to 1) while playing Corner.
Both scores were during Farve-ageddon.
Sure he has 22 less playoff interceptions than Jim Kelly; but hey, he's not a QB!