55 replies to this topic

[PickFoles]

If we can get an even remotely good safety and only move down a couple spots, it has to happen.

[The_Talon]

if this coaching staff is making picks in the draft, it doesn't matter if we pick 1st or 32nd.

[bobbywizdum]

The_Talon, on 27 December 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

if this coaching staff is making picks in the draft, it doesn't matter if we pick 1st or 32nd.

considering the average 1st-2nd round picks have about a 50/50 bust rate they have been pretty much the norm from 08 in.

Laws-miss
Jackson-hit
Maclin-hit
mccoy-hit
grahm-hit
allen-miss
watkins-miss
jarrett-miss
cox-hit
kendricks-hit

thats a 60% projected hit rate. the biggest problem is that we wiffed at the safety position twice.

[Shutdown Sheldon]

I'd love to swap firsts with a team at 7,8, 9 or 10 and get their second as well. Use the first on Lewan or Matthews and get a safety and corner in the second.

[Golfesv]

Keep it and take joeckel

[BillTheButcher]

if we can fill our needs in FA i say trade down target the ND TE Tyler Eifert and a WR.

[WestPaEaglesNest]

Sack that QB, on 27 December 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Trading down would be incredibly stupid. Everyone says there is no difference between picking 1-10. They couldn't be more wrong. In the top 5, you will have a shot at either Luke Joeckel or Manti Te'o. Two of the best players in this draft. If they trade down, they aren't going to get either.

Either of those guys would be huge difference makers going forward. You have an OT that will be on your line for the next decade, or the next defensive leader/playmaker that we haven't had since Dawkins left in Te'o.

You aren't going to get an impact player of that caliber at 12-15. Everyone thought the Browns got this great deal for trading down with Atlanta for Julio Jones and killed Atlanta at the time. Guess who it is working out for now?

This is a weak draft especially in the top part of the 1st round.  We need to load up on picks.  It is not like the draft last year.  Cleveland got a nice return on that trade.  You NEVER put that much value on a WR like you are doing, regardless of how good he is.  So that is a bad example.  I would rather take my shots at 2 lower first round hopefuls than 1 top 5 hopeful.  Drafting an o-lineman that high is not a guarantee (Robert Gallery).  See I can pick out one example of how something doesn't work just like you did.  For every scenario you use against trading down in the st, there is 2 examples of where trading down in the 1st round works.  And as far as Teo goes, I could bring up a bundle of stud MLB in college that were "leaders" who were busts in the NFL.

[AceofSpades]

This is one of the worst years to have a top pick. The draft is extremely weak and will only get worse if some of the top projected picks decide to go back to school.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

Arthur Spooner, on 27 December 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

Lets say we get 4th pick overall. We can get a rock solid stud, or maybe trade down to the 12-13th pick and get an extra 2nd rounder.

What would you do?

I think it might be a good idea to stock pile picks...

What value is available that high? I don't follow college football even a little bit, but from what I understand there isn't anything to get excited about in this years draft.

[morphius12812003]

AceofSpades, on 27 December 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

This is one of the worst years to have a top pick. The draft is extremely weak and will only get worse if some of the top projected picks decide to go back to school.

I have seen your repeated posts about the quality of this draft and I will only agree with you IF the majority of those players do not declare.

[AceofSpades]

morphius12812003, on 27 December 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

I have seen your repeated posts about the quality of this draft and I will only agree with you IF the majority of those players do not declare.

Think about it, compare this year's draft class to those of say the last 4 or 5 years. There are no can't miss or must have prospects in this draft. There are a few safe picks at the top but no stand out as players you'd trade future picks to move up to get.

[morphius12812003]

AceofSpades, on 27 December 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Think about it, compare this year's draft class to those of say the last 4 or 5 years. There are no can't miss or must have prospects in this draft. There are a few safe picks at the top but no stand out as players you'd trade future picks to move up to get.

I don't disagree with that, what I said was, IF the majority of those juniors do not declare.  There are at least 5 elite prospects, after that it drops of considerably (unless the majority declare).  This is why I WOULD NOT trade down and get more picks.  I think if were taking a top 5 pick we stick and get BPA.  I have posted a number of times in the draft section about this.  Joekel, Star, Te'o, Warmack, or Dion Jordan are all very good choices.  If the others declare were a little safer to trade down.

[wussbasket]

i rather move down get a couple late 1st rounders and hopefully extra 2nd and 3rd round picks. i dont think its a strong draft but there are some solid players that i like in the higher mid rounds.

[morphius12812003]

Also, last years draft was a complete rarity.  I have never seen such a quality draft in years.  I think many of the experts will look back at 2012 (last years) draft as being one of the best in 20 years.  I don't foresee that again for some time, so that may skew some peoples opinions about future draft qualities.  I am personally excited about this draft for defense.  Offense is a different story.

[cowboy_ron]

Just as a gauge to go by, Dallas moved up from 14th to 6th to draft Morris Claiborne and only swapped 1st's and gave up the 2nd rounder.

[morphius12812003]

cowboy_ron, on 27 December 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Just as a gauge to go by, Dallas moved up from 14th to 6th to draft Morris Claiborne and only swapped 1st's and gave up the 2nd rounder.

Gauge this .  No one cares about your bust 6th overall pick.

[Sack that QB]

WestPaEaglesNest, on 27 December 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

This is a weak draft especially in the top part of the 1st round.  We need to load up on picks.  It is not like the draft last year.  Cleveland got a nice return on that trade.  You NEVER put that much value on a WR like you are doing, regardless of how good he is.  So that is a bad example.  I would rather take my shots at 2 lower first round hopefuls than 1 top 5 hopeful.  Drafting an o-lineman that high is not a guarantee (Robert Gallery).  See I can pick out one example of how something doesn't work just like you did.  For every scenario you use against trading down in the st, there is 2 examples of where trading down in the 1st round works.  And as far as Teo goes, I could bring up a bundle of stud MLB in college that were "leaders" who were busts in the NFL.

Loading up on picks is only useful if you have a bunch of needs that you need to fill as quickly as possible. That isn't the situation the Eagles are in. They are in a position where they aren't going to be contenders for another 3 years, nor should they try to be. They need to build it slowly, methodically, and the right way. They need to stockpike as many top level players at premium positions as possible.

Getting a franchise OT is very important for this dreadful offensive line. I'd rather have one great player, than 3 good ones, because this team is in no position to try to fill needs quickly. Fans need to come to this reality that the next 3 years are going to be rough.

[morphius12812003]

Sack that QB, on 27 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

Loading up on picks is only useful if you have a bunch of needs that you need to fill as quickly as possible. That isn't the situation the Eagles are in. They are in a position where they aren't going to be contenders for another 3 years, nor should they try to be. They need to build it slowly, methodically, and the right way. They need to stockpike as many top level players at premium positions as possible.

Getting a franchise OT is very important for this dreadful offensive line. I'd rather have one great player, than 3 good ones, because this team is in no position to try to fill needs quickly. Fans need to come to this reality that the next 3 years are going to be rough.

Amen to that brother.  I have been trying to say this for some time.  WE ARE REBUILDING!!!

[GreenMtEagle]

kristiandroc2004, on 27 December 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

The only thing I hope for is that we never have another top 5 pick in my lifetime.

I hope to see them pick last in the first round in my life time and that pick is their pick.

[biglou22]

Sack that QB, on 27 December 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Trading down would be incredibly stupid. Everyone says there is no difference between picking 1-10. They couldn't be more wrong. In the top 5, you will have a shot at either Luke Joeckel or Manti Te'o. Two of the best players in this draft. If they trade down, they aren't going to get either.

Either of those guys would be huge difference makers going forward. You have an OT that will be on your line for the next decade, or the next defensive leader/playmaker that we haven't had since Dawkins left in Te'o.

You aren't going to get an impact player of that caliber at 12-15. Everyone thought the Browns got this great deal for trading down with Atlanta for Julio Jones and killed Atlanta at the time. Guess who it is working out for now?

My suggestion is go look at the draft history from lets say 2000 - 2010 and then get back to me. The amount of CAN'T MISS PLAYERS taken in the top 5 or 10 that were misses is off the charts.

History shows that your best defensive players very rarely come form the top 5. And sadly, 6-10 doesn't guarantee it either.

[macgregor]

Flexibility is key. To say you should definitely pick or trade down is wrong. It should depend on the situation. Joekel looks like a great pickup because O-line is our biggest need right now. But I could also envision a strategy to trade down if there are specific players we can target at positions of need or BPA. We did it last year with Foles. That draft was about as slick as I've ever seen the Eagles make. I hope it was Howie's work because I feel he's a very energetic thinker capable of creating many strategies. And you can never have too many strategies because players will drop and others will get picked. We have to be able to react to the changing availability of players. The team who can do that best will consistently have the best drafts.

[Edriscoll1010]

I want star at DT to pair him with cox or move down and look at a DE like Jordan or anzah

Secondary I would address in FA

[Sack that QB]

biglou22, on 27 December 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

My suggestion is go look at the draft history from lets say 2000 - 2010 and then get back to me. The amount of CAN'T MISS PLAYERS taken in the top 5 or 10 that were misses is off the charts.

History shows that your best defensive players very rarely come form the top 5. And sadly, 6-10 doesn't guarantee it either.

Ok, well my two favorite players in this draft will both be taken in the top 5, and I want the Eagles to get either of those players. So from my perspective, I want them to get who I think are the best players in the draft, so I'd prefer they not trade out.

[USGrunt]

WingsOfEagles, on 27 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

They should stay put and grab one of the studs already mentioned. I think the team has talent, they just lost their way with a coaching staff that wasn't getting through anymore combined with a lot of bad injuries.

We need quality and not quantity. If we can get a difference maker at either OT or DT we have to make that the move.

Agreed

[The Eagles win!]

Sack that QB, on 27 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

Loading up on picks is only useful if you have a bunch of needs that you need to fill as quickly as possible. That isn't the situation the Eagles are in. They are in a position where they aren't going to be contenders for another 3 years, nor should they try to be. They need to build it slowly, methodically, and the right way. They need to stockpike as many top level players at premium positions as possible.

Getting a franchise OT is very important for this dreadful offensive line. I'd rather have one great player, than 3 good ones, because this team is in no position to try to fill needs quickly. Fans need to come to this reality that the next 3 years are going to be rough.

I really disagree with you here.

The reason to load up on picks is if you're out of contention and need a total rebuild.  If you're a contender with some holes, you use premium picks to fill those holes.  Right now, we need at least 3 DBs, 1 LB, 1 DT, 1 DE, 3+ OL, 1 TE, and 1 QB.

Now, if Joekell is available I'd take him because I think he fills a near term and long term need at a premium position with an elite talent, but if we look at our teams situation in a vacuum we are a textbook example of a team that needs a Jimmy Johnson type of draft.

[The Eagles win!]

biglou22, on 27 December 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

My suggestion is go look at the draft history from lets say 2000 - 2010 and then get back to me. The amount of CAN'T MISS PLAYERS taken in the top 5 or 10 that were misses is off the charts.

History shows that your best defensive players very rarely come form the top 5. And sadly, 6-10 doesn't guarantee it either.

There generally are very few "can't miss" players, and NONE of them make it out of the top 5.  Luck from this past draft, Suh and Berry in 2010.  There wasn't even a guy who was considered "can't miss" in 2011, but the closest guy was probably AJ Green.  Every single one of those guys has shown star ability.

I don't see a can't miss prospect this year.  There is no world beater with zero injury and character concerns.