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OK, Dave and all, it's a clean slate now....


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#1 mjkvol

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:50 PM

I've been relentlessly pounding the table for Reid's dismissal for five years, and will always feel that would have been the smart move - history clearly bears that out.

OK, enough. Reid is gone, and completely out of the equation. It's a new year, we have a coach to hire, and the draft is coming up. I'm all in again.

If Roseman is the guy, then he's the guy - Lurie must hold him accountable, that's all. I'm just going to hope that he's the next great, young GM. Wishing for someone else is pointless right now, Lurie has made the decision.

It's been too damn long since it was worth truly caring about Eagles football (for me at least), but it's like a dark cloud has finally been lifted. Let's go get a great coach and have a productive draft. Bring on 2013!

What do you say?

#2 KOJO

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:02 PM

:towel:

As the great Frank Costanza once said

"I'M BACK BABY!"

#3 mjkvol

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:12 PM

Absolutely!

We would all love the perfect, ideal situation, but the 75% part of the cancer still remaining after McNabb's 25% was gone has finally been removed.

Today is a day to celebrate, and look to the future. We have some young talent to build on, a high draft pick, and by far most importantly, the 400 lb. ball and chain finally gone.

First a new coach at UT, and now this.

Happy New Year!!

#4 PoconoDon

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:49 PM

Well, since Lurie went on record saying all he could to convince us that the blame for the 2010 and 2011 draft shouldn't rest with Howie...and despite my nagging pessimism about what the results likely will be (hope I'm wrong), I'll say this.....I'll still be somewhat optimistically hoping for the best in every way.

....and as always with this team that hope has some BIG IF's attached to it.....

IF Howie's talent evaluation was spot on across the board for several years in a row, but others made the decisions against his recommendations, then it's a plus...we'll find out pretty soon in April.

IF Roseman has a plan for getting a top flight franchise QB in the next 4 years and can pull that off...it's a huge plus....(This is the one he MUST do...or he and they are done...still....for years).

IF the next HC is fundamentally sound and strong, with a flexible yet relatively traditional approach to the game....that's a huge plus.

If the culture of compromise on player talent and the culture of cowardice with which most of these players played are both reversed....that's a huge plus.

If all of that can happen in about a 4 year window...from then on, IMO, the Eagles will be in position to win it all....maybe more than once.

IF not..............more of the same.....different cast of characters...different path to the end.....but the same results.

I will celebrate with some optimism that this team has a chance to be rebuilt, over the next 5-6 years, into the HANDS-DOWN, BEST team in the league.....without question.....and win a few championships because of it. The first few steps will be taken soon....so, we'll see clearly and quickly which way they're going, regardless of what way it is.

#5 KOJO

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:50 PM

We would all love the perfect, ideal situation, but the 75% part of the cancer still remaining after McNabb's 25% was gone has finally been removed.

Today is a day to celebrate, and look to the future. We have some young talent to build on, a high draft pick, and by far most importantly, the 400 lb. ball and chain finally gone.


Pat Kirwan says the Eagles were impatient & the Steelers never would have fired him. :ph34r:

http://www.cbssports...atient-steelers


OK, back to moving on. :-)

#6 Iggles

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:00 PM

Pat Kirwan says the Eagles were impatient & the Steelers never would have fired him. :ph34r:

http://www.cbssports...atient-steelers


OK, back to moving on. :-)


You should read the comments, Kirwan is getting slammed, and rightfully so. The Steelers never would've hired Reid or Smith in the first place.

#7 mjkvol

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:07 PM

Pat Kirwan says the Eagles were impatient & the Steelers never would have fired him. :ph34r:

http://www.cbssports...atient-steelers


OK, back to moving on. :-)


Saw the headline, and passed.

Like you say, moving on.............................

#8 mjkvol

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:12 PM

IF the next HC is fundamentally sound and strong, with a flexible yet relatively traditional approach to the game....that's a huge plus.

If the culture of compromise on player talent and the culture of cowardice with which most of these players played are both reversed....that's a huge plus.


These are the short term keys as far as I'm concerned.

Get a solid coach with a solid plan, and focus personnel decisions towards maximizing that plan.

Then, execute the damn plan.

#9 PoconoDon

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:04 PM

These are the short term keys as far as I'm concerned.

Get a solid coach with a solid plan, and focus personnel decisions towards maximizing that plan.

Then, execute the damn plan.


This would be refreshing.

#10 Runtherock

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

Holding Roseman accountable is not in his job description.

#11 mjkvol

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

I will celebrate with some optimism that this team has a chance to be rebuilt, over the next 5-6 years, into the HANDS-DOWN, BEST team in the league.....without question.....and win a few championships because of it. The first few steps will be taken soon....so, we'll see clearly and quickly which way they're going, regardless of what way it is.


I don't believe that 5-6 years are necessary in this league any more, Pocono. With a solid scheme in place, and a couple of good drafts along with a few smart signings (to fill holes, not build the core), there's no reason it can't happen sooner.

If, after 2-3 years, serious progress isn't being made, as I said in the OP, Lurie has to hold the Roseman and the new coach accountable, and take the proper action.

As you and I know, by far the primary issue is to identify a franchise QB as soon as possible. That will determine how soon we become relevant again.

#12 PoconoDon

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:57 AM

I don't believe that 5-6 years are necessary in this league any more, Pocono. With a solid scheme in place, and a couple of good drafts along with a few smart signings (to fill holes, not build the core), there's no reason it can't happen sooner.

If, after 2-3 years, serious progress isn't being made, as I said in the OP, Lurie has to hold the Roseman and the new coach accountable, and take the proper action.

As you and I know, by far the primary issue is to identify a franchise QB as soon as possible. That will determine how soon we become relevant again.


Absolutely correct.

Right now, I can't say the Eagles have one. Foles may be OK, or he may regress as the book on him is written, most young QB's fade away, so the odds are against his rise, but we'll see, it's still possible.....however, if he doesn't rise........and......

If the vast majority of draft "experts" who were correct about Luck & RG3 are correct again this year, the 2013 draft has NONE. So, trade for one? No, teams don't give them up, as you know.

That means the 2013 season, for whatever else they do, and it should be a LOT, is basically over before it starts. I am fine with that reality, but only if our smart young GM is positioning the Eagles to get the next great young QB in the draft....and that may be Manziel in 2014 or 2015.....or it may be another guy between now and then, but in this NFL today, to win it all they must get one.

I'll be watching intently to see the moves and opportunities as they unfold in each draft that Howie is running.

Imagine if that Teo Nesheim pick had instead been the trade offer acceptance I was screaming for when the offer was reported in the 2010 draft...Eagles then hold 33 overall in 2011...then imagine they trade that EXTRA PICK in 2011 to the Colts (who I remember were reportedly trying for a trade around that point in the 2011 draft, and were reportedly talking to the Pats for that pick, though it didn't go through) for the following year's 1st rounder in 2012.....

Result: Andrew Luck is here....and it all would have been predicated on trading a late 3rd round pick to Carolina 2 drafts earlier.......I'm still bitter, if not incensed over that failed opportunity.....what did Howie think about that one, I wonder.....was he screaming for it but was over-ruled? I hope so...I hope he can see REAL opportunity when it's staring him in the face...and if not...same old Eagles.....2nd tier players thrust into top tier roles.....and it always fails.

A lot of woulda, could, shoulda, I know, but just once, I'd like it to be the Eagles who dominate a handful drafts in a row because they're ACTUALLY smarter than everyone including me......I'd like to post that what they did was incredibly astute and that I never saw it coming......that they treat EXTRA draft picks with the incredible value that they actually have, and use them wisely. Every team that has done that, has Lombardi trophies, and those who don't, well, they don't have any...and the Eagles are among them.

#13 mjkvol

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:06 AM

That means the 2013 season, for whatever else they do, and it should be a LOT, is basically over before it starts. I am fine with that reality, but only if our smart young GM is positioning the Eagles to get the next great young QB in the draft....and that may be Manziel in 2014 or 2015.....or it may be another guy between now and then, but in this NFL today, to win it all they must get one.


I'll be very happy if a real core begins to be established along with a solid, sound coaching plan in 2013. Foles should get an opportunity to be 'that guy', and I wouldn't mind a 3rd round shot at a physical talent like Tyler Bray. What I don't want is to bring in veteran also-rans (Orton, Edwards, etc.) and settle for 8-8, 9-7 - I'd rather see young players who might actually have a shot at being our future franchise QB.

#14 Highboy

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

I'll be very happy if a real core begins to be established along with a solid, sound coaching plan in 2013. Foles should get an opportunity to be 'that guy', and I wouldn't mind a 3rd round shot at a physical talent like Tyler Bray. What I don't want is to bring in veteran also-rans (Orton, Edwards, etc.) and settle for 8-8, 9-7 - I'd rather see young players who might actually have a shot at being our future franchise QB.


Foles earned at least a shot. I know you love the Vols, but I'm reading Bray never really developed and had some maturity issues. I'd rather use all our draft picks to build around Foles and give him as big a chance as we can give him to have success. He needs at least a season.

#15 PoconoDon

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:19 AM

MJ,

If the next consensus "Peyton Manning" is coming out in a particular draft....and if as I expect, the Eagles aren't positioned to get the #1 pick (because Roseman can'y figure out how), then I'm 100% fine with an 0-16 plunge to get him...worked for the Cowboys with Aikman.....worked for the Colts with Manning.....and with Luck. Getting THAT guy in this NFL...that's about 65% of the equation in the form of one man.

Maybe they'll find a Brady in the later rounds.....but that's happened.....well, once, so I won't bank on that working. For every level down a team compromises on QB, the rest of the team must be raised a level...in some ways, that seems harder, not impossible, but harder.

#16 Highboy

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:26 AM

MJ,

If the next consensus "Peyton Manning" is coming out in a particular draft....and if as I expect, the Eagles aren't positioned to get the #1 pick (because Roseman can'y figure out how), then I'm 100% fine with an 0-16 plunge to get him...worked for the Cowboys with Aikman.....worked for the Colts with Manning.....and with Luck. Getting THAT guy in this NFL...that's about 65% of the equation in the form of one man.

Maybe they'll find a Brady in the later rounds.....but that's happened.....well, once, so I won't bank on that working. For every level down a team compromises on QB, the rest of the team must be raised a level...in some ways, that seems harder, not impossible, but harder.


My take on Foles is this: He showed enough playing for a quitting team comprised of a lot of backups, mostly on the offensive line, to warrant giving him the reins going into next season. I wouldn't mind at all spending a first on a legit blue chip QB prospect in the draft but there doesn't seem to be any worth taking where we will likely pick and while Geno Smith is the consensus #1 QB in the draft (for now) he's not worth trading up to the first pick to get. So we go with Foles, he gets his starters, a sane offensive scheme that features McCoy and high percentage passes, and you bolster the offensive line. Obviously if we're picking top 10 again Foles probably sucked. A lot depends on who the coach is, offensive coordinator, etc, obviously.

#17 PoconoDon

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:32 AM

My take on Foles is this: He showed enough playing for a quitting team comprised of a lot of backups, mostly on the offensive line, to warrant giving him the reins going into next season. I wouldn't mind at all spending a first on a legit blue chip QB prospect in the draft but there doesn't seem to be any worth taking where we will likely pick and while Geno Smith is the consensus #1 QB in the draft (for now) he's not worth trading up to the first pick to get. So we go with Foles, he gets his starters, a sane offensive scheme that features McCoy and high percentage passes, and you bolster the offensive line. Obviously if we're picking top 10 again Foles probably sucked. A lot depends on who the coach is, offensive coordinator, etc, obviously.


first point HB,

I agree 100%...the kid has earned a shot to compete from #1 on the depth chart. I like him and hope he makes a HUGE leap in year 2, we'll see.

2nd point,

I agree 100%...there appear to be NO franchise QB's in this draft, and taking one before the 3rd or 4th round (which 3 or 4 teams will) is probably a wasted pick and a stupid thing to do. The only way a big time franchise QB will be found in this draft, is if one is being sandbagged by a college program for friends in the pros.....and that's hard to get away with nowadays.

#18 mjkvol

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

MJ,

If the next consensus "Peyton Manning" is coming out in a particular draft....and if as I expect, the Eagles aren't positioned to get the #1 pick (because Roseman can'y figure out how), then I'm 100% fine with an 0-16 plunge to get him...worked for the Cowboys with Aikman.....worked for the Colts with Manning.....and with Luck. Getting THAT guy in this NFL...that's about 65% of the equation in the form of one man.

Maybe they'll find a Brady in the later rounds.....but that's happened.....well, once, so I won't bank on that working. For every level down a team compromises on QB, the rest of the team must be raised a level...in some ways, that seems harder, not impossible, but harder.


Let's not hammer Roseman for not "figuring out how" to get to #1 if a Peyton Manning type is there. Those deals don't just happen - the Skins gave up a whole lot and took a huge risk, and I love the kid, but we won't know for several years if it was worth it. If they can't surround Griffin with talent, he's not winning a Super Bowl. And they'll have to do it without a lot of high picks in the short term.

I say, let's build a solid young core, see what we have in Foles, and work from there.

#19 mjkvol

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:30 PM

Foles earned at least a shot. I know you love the Vols, but I'm reading Bray never really developed and had some maturity issues. I'd rather use all our draft picks to build around Foles and give him as big a chance as we can give him to have success. He needs at least a season.


I totally agree on Foles, and want him to have every shot to succeed, but that doesn't mean passing on a possible bargain in the draft. I'd rather have two young QB's competing right now than some retread veteran as a backup.

My comments on Bray have nothing to do with loving the Vols - I watched the kid play several times, and while he has some growing up to do, he is also 6'6" and 215 lbs., and can make every throw a pro has to make. He is an immense talent. If he dropped as far as the 3rd round (which is doubtful), I'd have to consider it. That, of course, is subject to the new coach and Roseman doing their due diligence in studying the kid.

#20 PoconoDon

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 06:04 PM

Let's not hammer Roseman for not "figuring out how" to get to #1 if a Peyton Manning type is there. Those deals don't just happen - the Skins gave up a whole lot and took a huge risk, and I love the kid, but we won't know for several years if it was worth it. If they can't surround Griffin with talent, he's not winning a Super Bowl. And they'll have to do it without a lot of high picks in the short term.

I say, let's build a solid young core, see what we have in Foles, and work from there.


I'm really not hammering him for anything. I'm just expressing my concern that he may still be a "developmental GM" and that during this time of growth, he may miss on some things. Look, I think this is an exciting time, and I really am hoping for the best....there's just a part of me that still has a nagging doubt....the same kind of nagging doubt I had, when Reid built a massive run blocking O-line and then started to ask them to pass block all day.....Howie can lay all of my doubts to rest as a fan, by being the GM that I know this team needs.....one that makes us all pause, say holy KRRAAPP, this guy is GREAT!! and gives us a sense of confidence moving forward that we have NEVER known, when it comes to consistent player performance. there's 100 roads to getting a team to be the very best, and I don't care which one he takes.....but all of them have their first checkpoint in the NFL draft...so let's just see how that goes in April.

At the end of the day, I'm happy that the Eagles have a chance to build a champion, they haven't for over a decade, and I understand that the worst thing that can happen is they don't...which I've grown used to for...oh....my whole life I guess.

#21 LacesOut

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

It's a clean slate, and I'm back in now also!

I'll give Howie a chance to further impress me as well (if the 2012 draft was mostly his, then that's the first thing that I'm impressed with from him).

Solid drafts (take the BPA, don't reach for a position of need), a plan on the field with adjustments made during the actual game, a good coaching staff, and most of all a leader of a HC who will utilize the players talent to a scheme which will breed success on Sundays.

There. That's not too much to ask for now, is it?? LOL

#22 Operator 7

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:47 AM

I've been relentlessly pounding the table for Reid's dismissal for five years, and will always feel that would have been the smart move - history clearly bears that out.

OK, enough. Reid is gone, and completely out of the equation. It's a new year, we have a coach to hire, and the draft is coming up. I'm all in again.

If Roseman is the guy, then he's the guy - Lurie must hold him accountable, that's all. I'm just going to hope that he's the next great, young GM. Wishing for someone else is pointless right now, Lurie has made the decision.

It's been too damn long since it was worth truly caring about Eagles football (for me at least), but it's like a dark cloud has finally been lifted. Let's go get a great coach and have a productive draft. Bring on 2013!

What do you say?



All I know is that despite anything you might say or admit, you are having a cup of coffee with a big smile. Trust, I know the feeling. ^_^

There are never any guarantees, but sometimes it just becomes time for a change. As you pointed out, AR would not make adjustments, and none of us could understand his thinking in regards to certain things. I really liked the guy, but I couldn't back/defend him once McNabb left, and he still was unable to put things together.

As for Howie, I don't know a lot about him, but from what I've seen, I like him. Here in Eagle land, we're a bunch of blood-thirsty pihranna, quick to want to devour somebody. From MY perspective though, Howie produced BIG-time, with the free agents that he brought in. Did Namdi pan out? No, but who would have thunk that? At the time, we were all happy with the move. The point is that Howie was able to go out and get the biggest and best free-agents, and outdid the entire league. I'm pretty impressed with the guy in that regard. As for drafting? Well I heard last year was the first where he was fully in charge, and last year's draft was a pretty good one, and most fans and experts alike agreed.

So happy Reid is out (and I wish him the BEST), and happy Howie is in.

Very interesting times ahead, and while we don't have a "star" QB, I think a new coach might be able to do a lot with Shady, and the rest of the talent on this team. If Peters can come back, and/or we make some good moves with our high draft picks, I think we can shore up our O-line, as well as our D-line, and we should be in pretty good shape. I'd expect the players to play with a new enthusiasm under a new coach, and who knows...

Here's hoping for the best, and for a great new year! Eagle_smiley.jpg :usa:

:towel:

As the great Frank Costanza once said

"I'M BACK BABY!"


lmao!

You guys will be missing Reid, once he starts winning in AZ - mark my words!!!!! :P

Absolutely!

We would all love the perfect, ideal situation, but the 75% part of the cancer still remaining after McNabb's 25% was gone has finally been removed.

Today is a day to celebrate, and look to the future. We have some young talent to build on, a high draft pick, and by far most importantly, the 400 lb. ball and chain finally gone.

First a new coach at UT, and now this.

Happy New Year!!


nice, lol

#23 Operator 7

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

Pat Kirwan says the Eagles were impatient & the Steelers never would have fired him. :ph34r:

http://www.cbssports...atient-steelers


OK, back to moving on. :-)


"OK, back to moving on" :roll:

#24 mjkvol

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:51 AM

lmao!

You guys will be missing Reid, once he starts winning in AZ - mark my words!!!!! :P


There's nothing more comical than Cardinal fans thinking the messiah is coming. :roll: Boy, the power of the national media!

They'll just have to find out the hard way, like we did (or those of us with a clue, anyway).

#25 Operator 7

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:00 PM

This would be refreshing.

Absolutely correct.

Right now, I can't say the Eagles have one. Foles may be OK, or he may regress as the book on him is written, most young QB's fade away, so the odds are against his rise, but we'll see, it's still possible.....however, if he doesn't rise........and......

If the vast majority of draft "experts" who were correct about Luck & RG3 are correct again this year, the 2013 draft has NONE. So, trade for one? No, teams don't give them up, as you know.

That means the 2013 season, for whatever else they do, and it should be a LOT, is basically over before it starts. I am fine with that reality, but only if our smart young GM is positioning the Eagles to get the next great young QB in the draft....and that may be Manziel in 2014 or 2015.....or it may be another guy between now and then, but in this NFL today, to win it all they must get one.

I'll be watching intently to see the moves and opportunities as they unfold in each draft that Howie is running.

Imagine if that Teo Nesheim pick had instead been the trade offer acceptance I was screaming for when the offer was reported in the 2010 draft...Eagles then hold 33 overall in 2011...then imagine they trade that EXTRA PICK in 2011 to the Colts (who I remember were reportedly trying for a trade around that point in the 2011 draft, and were reportedly talking to the Pats for that pick, though it didn't go through) for the following year's 1st rounder in 2012.....

Result: Andrew Luck is here....and it all would have been predicated on trading a late 3rd round pick to Carolina 2 drafts earlier.......I'm still bitter, if not incensed over that failed opportunity.....what did Howie think about that one, I wonder.....was he screaming for it but was over-ruled? I hope so...I hope he can see REAL opportunity when it's staring him in the face...and if not...same old Eagles.....2nd tier players thrust into top tier roles.....and it always fails.

A lot of woulda, could, shoulda, I know, but just once, I'd like it to be the Eagles who dominate a handful drafts in a row because they're ACTUALLY smarter than everyone including me......I'd like to post that what they did was incredibly astute and that I never saw it coming......that they treat EXTRA draft picks with the incredible value that they actually have, and use them wisely. Every team that has done that, has Lombardi trophies, and those who don't, well, they don't have any...and the Eagles are among them.



You didn't like the Teo pick? Come on Poc, HAD to roll the dice on a guy like Teo!!!! :flex:

Foles earned at least a shot. I know you love the Vols, but I'm reading Bray never really developed and had some maturity issues. I'd rather use all our draft picks to build around Foles and give him as big a chance as we can give him to have success. He needs at least a season.


What about bringing back Kolb? :angel:

#26 badmeetsevil

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 01:11 PM

Don't know about coach or QB and of course you need both to win big but I'll be excited just to see an offense that features running the ball with McCoy and Brown. Then sprinkle in some Lewis and or rookie pickup and you at least have a very lethal rushing attack.

I truly believe with a healthy and improved OLINE this duo at RB can help the Eagles average 5-6 yards per carry. And even if our QB is Foles, he won't have to shoulder the load of the entire offense. I'd also like a big body WR. Should have traded for Boldin instead of drafting Maclin!!! That's my complaint from the past!

#27 PoconoDon

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:46 PM

You didn't like the Teo pick? Come on Poc, HAD to roll the dice on a guy like Teo!!!! :flex:



As you remember...not accepting the trade offer and making that pick was the knife being stuck in......the next year when the Colts were looking for a trade to get that pick....that was twisting it.....All I can say is that I hope Reid was responsible for all of that and now that he's finally gone, that line of thinking will be gone too. I hope Roseman understands what extra early draft picks mean and how to use them....sometimes you grab a player, and some times you move it/them up and into next year, or beyond....hopefully with a team in decline....like the Colts were going into 2011-2012 season.

We'll see what Roseman brings to the table real, real soon.