51 replies to this topic

[deevo82]

In Philadelphia, comments from owner Jeffrey Lurie suggest that the termination of coach Andy Reid was preceded by a determination that G.M. Howie Roseman would or should have more authority over the construction of the roster.
Officially, Reid has had “final say” since the day he was hired, in 1999.  Unofficially, Roseman acquired more influence in 2012, based on Lurie’s explanation regarding the manner in which Roseman’s role in a 1-11 collapse over the final three fourths of the season will be assessed.
“I keep voluminous notes on talent evaluation on not just who we draft, but who is valued in each draft by each person that is in the organization that’s working here,” Lurie said.  “I came to the conclusion that the person that was providing by far the best talent evaluation in the building was Howie Roseman.  I decided to streamline the whole decision-making process for the 2012 draft and offseason and that’s the first draft and offseason I hold Howie completely accountable for.  The mistakes that were made in the 2011 draft have little or nothing to do with Howie’s evaluations and I think it was important for me to own up to the mistakes that were made and understand where they were coming from and it was awfully clear.”
In other words, Roseman was trying to get Reid to make other decisions in past years, and hindsight was proving Roseman to be right.  And so if Roseman is accountable only for the 2012 draft, it means that Reid, was wisely deferring to the guy whom hindsight was proving to be right.
It doesn’t mean that Roseman will now be in charge of the team.  “The way I’ve operated is the way I’m going to operate and that is the new head coach, whoever that is, will report directly to me and that’s the only structure that I insist upon,” Lurie said.  “As we go through the process, we have the flexibility to finalize personnel decisions and everything else that goes with the coach-G.M. relationship.  But my goal is to have the coach and the General Manager work hand-in-hand and work collaboratively and work in a very, very terrific way together.”
In other words, the next coach of the Eagles may not be running the show the way Reid was for 14 years.  Or, possibly, for the first 13 of them.

http://profootballta...n-roseman-reid/

[eagles nut]

PFT is assuming that Lurie is talking about Reid. Most in the local Philly media have inferred that he was talking about Banner. Maybe some combination of the 2.

[djbigf]

a CEO blaming recently fired top executives for an organization's failures?  shocking.

[pgcd3]

Yes it's been discussed. It's all so ludicrous. Lurie is essentially suggesting his GM of 3 years is responsible for about 5 players on the team. And then somehow praising him after a 4-12 season in the process.

[eagle45]

So convenient.  Blame everyone for two miserable 2010/2011 offseasons but the guy you named GM and are now allowing to rebuild the franchise.

[AceofSpades]

eagle45, on 01 January 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

So convenient.  Blame everyone for two miserable 2010/2011 offseasons but the guy you named GM and are now allowing to rebuild the franchise.

I firmly believe that Roseman was doing what Reid wanted in making those deals that we now say didn't work out. We don't know how much of what happened was Roseman's fault or Roseman doing what he was asked to do. I think it was more of the latter since Reid had full control. I think he told Roseman & crew what he wanted, the types of players he wanted and made it their job to go get what he wanted and to make the deals happen. So we'll see how much of the problems were truly on Roseman.

[pgcd3]

eagle45, on 01 January 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

So convenient.  Blame everyone for two miserable 2010/2011 offseasons but the guy you named GM and are now allowing to rebuild the franchise.

The thing is the team got worse from '11 to '12 too. But Lurie somehow only wants us to focus on the draft for Roseman. He's confusing the role of GM with the role of head scout. Again I'll say we'd better get a coach that is a personnel guru too because even if you believe Lurie and his boy Roseman drafts 3 good players this year I don't think any of us believe this team is 3 rookie contributions away from rebuilding

[djbigf]

AceofSpades, on 01 January 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

I firmly believe that Roseman was doing what Reid wanted in making those deals that we now say didn't work out. We don't know how much of what happened was Roseman's fault or Roseman doing what he was asked to do. I think it was more of the latter since Reid had full control. I think he told Roseman & crew what he wanted, the types of players he wanted and made it their job to go get what he wanted and to make the deals happen. So we'll see how much of the problems were truly on Roseman.

one area where this holds true is desean...you can tell now that the decision to franchise him and not offer an extension was all banner's doing...as soon as joey nickels got curbed, they did that deal in minutes.

[stang8118]

djbigf, on 01 January 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

a CEO blaming recently fired top executives for an organization's failures?  shocking.

Business CEO's typically make a lot of the business decisions. Lurie pretty much appoints "football" people, and lets them make the decisions. At least that is how he and his colleagues have always said he's done business.

[stang8118]

pgcd3, on 01 January 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

The thing is the team got worse from '11 to '12 too. But Lurie somehow only wants us to focus on the draft for Roseman. He's confusing the role of GM with the role of head scout. Again I'll say we'd better get a coach that is a personnel guru too because even if you believe Lurie and his boy Roseman drafts 3 good players this year I don't think any of us believe this team is 3 rookie contributions away from rebuilding

If it is true, and Roseman did have a majority of the say on personnel in 2012 you have to admit the team got better. It might have not shown in the record, but that is because the players from previous years got that much worse. Nnamdi, Cole, Babin, Vick, and countless other vets that were already in place regressed at an alarming rate.

[The_Talon]

pgcd3, on 01 January 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Yes it's been discussed. It's all so ludicrous. Lurie is essentially suggesting his GM of 3 years is responsible for about 5 players on the team. And then somehow praising him after a 4-12 season in the process.

I think you don't know how to read. Or listen if you watched the PC. Lurie is saying he wants drafts done by committee, not one person. I think he's also suggesting that Roseman may have wanted players that AR and others did not necessarily want and those players have gone on to other teams and are showing signs of success.

eagle45, on 01 January 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

So convenient.  Blame everyone for two miserable 2010/2011 offseasons but the guy you named GM and are now allowing to rebuild the franchise.

I thought Lurie did a great job of not trying to point the finger at anyone. He never mentioned anyone's names. Yet our ignorant, assumptive minds always seek out the worst in people. Why is that?

As I said above, Lurie said he wants his GM and Coach to be on the same page and work on these things together. Roseman is only getting the nod because his choices have panned out. We keep saying Roseman isn't a football guy, but who knows? Maybe he really is.

[pgcd3]

stang8118, on 01 January 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

If it is true, and Roseman did have a majority of the say on personnel in 2012 you have to admit the team got better. It might have not shown in the record, but that is because the players from previous years got that much worse. Nnamdi, Cole, Babin, Vick, and countless other vets that were already in place regressed at an alarming rate.

The Demeco Ryans trade was good. The Bell signing was terrible. As was any attempt at safety. I don't know. That's the thing about this team. They keep telling you they got better or are better but it never shows on the field so you're left to extrapolate the possible improvements.

I'll say the draft is looking good but really Fletcher Cox was an obvious pick. Kendricks did well but so did the other LB canidates Bobby Wagner and Lavonte David.

[stang8118]

The_Talon, on 01 January 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

As I said above, Lurie said he wants his GM and Coach to be on the same page and work on these things together. Roseman is only getting the nod because his choices have panned out. We keep saying Roseman isn't a football guy, but who knows? Maybe he really is.

Well Howie does have 15 years NFL experience. My favorite part of the EMB is when people question his lack of NFL experience on a move he made, then the poster (with absolutely no NFL experience) says what he/she would have done instead, and that Howie is an idiot with no experience for making his decision lol.

[stang8118]

pgcd3, on 01 January 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

The Demeco Ryans trade was good. The Bell signing was terrible. As was any attempt at safety. I don't know. That's the thing about this team. They keep telling you they got better or are better but it never shows on the field so you're left to extrapolate the possible improvements.

I'll say the draft is looking good but really Fletcher Cox was an obvious pick. Kendricks did well but so did the other LB canidates Bobby Wagner and Lavonte David.

The Bell signing was out of desperation. Peters hurt himself, and the team really had no other option. No NFL team is going to have a backup LT that is going to replace Jason Peters. Bell was the only viable LT on the FA market, and no one knew exactly how horrible he would be in Howard Mudd's scheme.

[pgcd3]

The_Talon, on 01 January 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I think you don't know how to read. Or listen if you watched the PC. Lurie is saying he wants drafts done by committee, not one person. I think he's also suggesting that Roseman may have wanted players that AR and others did not necessarily want and those players have gone on to other teams and are showing signs of success.

To the contrary I think it's you who have the problem. What you are saying is exactly what I inferred. Lurie said we should only hold Howie accountable for 5 guys from the 2012 draft out of the entire 53-man roster. Howie has been GM for 3 years. That's ludicrous. Beyond that the committee approach is a terrible management idea. That's been proven time and time again. Someone needs to be in charge.

[Runtherock]

PFT completely missed the Banner angle. Dumb.

[pgcd3]

Runtherock, on 01 January 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

PFT completely missed the Banner angle. Dumb.

Maybe because blaming Banner for drafting Watkins and Jarrett is so far fetched that you have to live this mess to even think it's possible.

[igglesgiggles]

All I want to know is who made the pick of Brandon Graham over JPP? That's all I need to know.

[jlcover]

No doubt in my mind that Watkins was AR's pick.  Cannot see Banner or Roseman backing him.

[Dudeguyy]

igglesgiggles, on 01 January 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

All I want to know is who made the pick of Brandon Graham over JPP? That's all I need to know.

Graham has started to look pretty dang good buddy...

[stang8118]

igglesgiggles, on 01 January 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

All I want to know is who made the pick of Brandon Graham over JPP? That's all I need to know.

Brandon Graham has 1 less sack than JPP this season, and he didn't even start until like week 11 or 12. The jury is still out on that pick, but even if Graham doesn't end up the better player overall I don't think that means Graham will be a bad player. He took a few years to develop, and had a nasty injury to overcome. I think he'll be worth where he was picked in the draft when it is all said and done.

[Runtherock]

pgcd3, on 01 January 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Maybe because blaming Banner for drafting Watkins and Jarrett is so far fetched that you have to live this mess to even think it's possible.

Good point.

[evilwaldo]

LOL PFT trolls TATE for stories.

[GoBirds2010]

igglesgiggles, on 01 January 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

All I want to know is who made the pick of Brandon Graham over JPP? That's all I need to know.

It was reported last year. Reid wanted JPP and Banner wanted Graham.

[Gregg]

We'll, I would like to know too what happened in the past as well, but really, all that matters is who we have going forward.  The AR era is over.

[blackskimmer]

eagles nut, on 01 January 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

PFT is assuming that Lurie is talking about Reid. Most in the local Philly media have inferred that he was talking about Banner. Maybe some combination of the 2.

Oh come on.  Reid had total personnel control.  Was I the ONLY one who noticed something substantially different about the way we ran the 2012 draft?  For one we didnt trade down needlessly when talent was on the board.  We drafted a freaking linebacker in the second round, took curry  when he was the BPA instead of trading back for garbage.  We drafted receivers with size, a great DT who for once had the measureables.  

  2012 was the best draft i have ever seen from the Eagles in the Reid era and it was because Reid wasnt running it.  Everyone here is complaining about Howie like crazy but his fully run draft has yielded more talent and starters then the previous 14 years of Reid drafts combined.  Im with giving Howie a chance.  Anyone who thought Reid was really good at drafting players needs their head examined.

[CountBlah]

blackskimmer, on 01 January 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Oh come on.  Reid had total personnel control.  Was I the ONLY one who noticed something substantially different about the way we ran the 2012 draft?  For one we didnt trade down needlessly when talent was on the board.  We drafted a freaking linebacker in the second round, took curry  when he was the BPA instead of trading back for garbage.  We drafted receivers with size, a great DT who for once had the measureables.  

  2012 was the best draft i have ever seen from the Eagles in the Reid era and it was because Reid wasnt running it.  Everyone here is complaining about Howie like crazy but his fully run draft has yielded more talent and starters then the previous 14 years of Reid drafts combined.  Im with giving Howie a chance.  Anyone who thought Reid was really good at drafting players needs their head examined.

you are also assuming that Lurie is being completely truthful.  I have my doubts.  Andy has taken LBs in the second round before.  They have stunk, but he's done it.

[pgcd3]

CountBlah, on 01 January 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

you are also assuming that Lurie is being completely truthful.  I have my doubts.  Andy has taken LBs in the second round before.  They have stunk, but he's done it.

Right and Fletcher Cox was the no-brainer pick that every person in the universe said we should take. Basically as the team gets worse our odds of getting a better player go up. Spadaro will be all over the guy we take at 4 this year and compare him to the picks in the 20s as if Howie is a genius

[Runtherock]

blackskimmer, on 01 January 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Oh come on.  Reid had total personnel control.  

Really, really naïve.

[pgcd3]

Runtherock, on 01 January 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Really, really naïve.

Runtherock, on 01 January 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Really, really naïve.

The Eagles seem to change their narrative about past drafts and personnel moves as it fits their current spin. Basically like many companies like to present, the ex-employees are always the one to blame for all the problems.