72 replies to this topic

[CalgaryFan77]

There is a lot of talk about the Eagles switching to a 3-4 with a new coaching staff.  Now obviously we can talk about who to draft/sign to facilitate that but I want a better understanding of how the current players we have fit into this, before we can talk about who to bring in to upgrade. Here are my thoughts, but I'm not great at projecting players in different systems.

NT- To me this seems like our biggest question mark.  Patterson & Thornton come to mind, but Patterson is probably gone anyway with his cap hit.

DE- Cox will be a star here, Jenkins in an obvious choice but he may be gone.  I could see Landri or Tapp being backups maybe?

ILB- Ryans is an obvious starter. Kendricks should be able to take the other starting role.  I can see Chaney, Matthews & Rau fighting for the backup positions.

OLB- I don't know if Cole can play well enough in space? Does he project to DE instead?  Graham seems like he could be a fit here.  I don't know enough about Curry or Hunt but I don't see them at DE, but I'm also not sure about them here.

Your thoughts?

[deevo82]

D line - only Cox and Jenkins fit a 3-4. NT would be a priority.

LB - I doubt any of them can play a 3-4. We got Ryans from the Texans as he was rubbish in a 3-4. I don't think Graham or Cole can cover anyone in the passing game if that was required of them.

It would take a major over-haul of personnel if we went to a 3-4. With Ryans, Cole, Cox and Graham out best players on defense, I doubt we would change the system...but you never know....crazier things have happened...like making an O line coach your DC!

[Nitro276]

In this pass-happy league and all the personnel moves needed to do it, I hope we stay with a base 4-3.

[proveagle]

DE - Cox, Jenkins and Thornton fit pretty well here.  Would need to add depth.

NT - Dixon (whom the Eagles resigned) is the closest but this would be a need for a starter and depth.

OLB - Graham played 3-4 in college.  He fits with some weight drop.  Cole played OLB in College I think but this would be a stretch for him.  He would need to lose weight and frankly he doesnt look to me like he has the hips for coverage.  Phillip Hunt might be able to play OLB.  This would be a need for starter and depth.

ILB - Ryans can play here.  I don't buy he can't play in a 3-4.  He competes at least.  Hendricks played ILB in a 3-4 in college so he slots well here.  Rest are competition for camp but I think you need to add depth here at least.

S - Just as awful as 4-3 so you need starters/depth here.

CB - Just as awful as 4-3 so you need starters/depth here.

I would be fine with whatever the right coach implemented as long as they tailored it to the strengths of the players.  To me, the 3-4 looks like a tough thing to move towards next season as even in a 1-gap 3-4 we would still have alot of needs given the awful secondary.  But I could see them using hybrid 3-4/4-3 and evolving over time.

[MCoster]

LaxPlayerX3, on 02 January 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

They had Ryans as an OLB when they switched, not an ILB.

No they didnt

[PhillyPhilly80]

NT - Bird would draft a soon to be BEAST NT in Star Lotulelei from Utah with the 4th pick.  
DE - Cox and I would keep Jenkins...you would need to go after some free agent backups at DE here
ILB - Ryans was traded from Texans b/c he didn't fit in the 3-4 but I would give him another chance along with Kendricks.
OLB - this would be a work in progress, I would def have Graham at OLB, these guys need to be more agile and there really isn't a rush LB on this team right now...

Overall, its a good start with the Dline but would take some time building it...

[CalgaryFan77]

PhillyPhilly80, on 02 January 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

NT - Bird would draft a soon to be BEAST NT in Star Lotulelei from Utah with the 4th pick.  

That would be my thought, but I just wanted to keep the focus on the current players. Because overhaul or not, there is no way we can replace every single player in our front 7 considering we already have other positions we need to fill in the secondary and the offense.

Especially with our current outside linebackers & lineman I'm trying to understand if they can fit in somewhere or not.

[LaxPlayerX3]

Ironically this was posted 5 days ago.

http://www.phillymag...-play-in-a-3-4/

Quote

Any time the talk of the Eagles potentially switching to 3-4 defense is brought up, the conversation generally hits a snag when you get to DeMeco Ryans. The 27-year-old middle linebacker was shipped to Philadelphia from Houston with the label, “Can’t Play In A 3-4″ written in big letters across the packaging.
Ryans says it was false advertising.

“I can play in any defense, it’s not that big of a deal,” said Ryans. “In a 3-4, it wasn’t that the defense didn’t fit for me. I played the whole year with the Texans and we were a top defense in the league, so it wasn’t that I didn’t fit the scheme.”

Indeed, the Texans were ranked second overall as a defense in 2011, holding opponents to 286 yards and 17 points per game. Ryans, though, finished with just 64 tackles after recording over 100 in each of his first four seasons.

“With their package they only have one linebacker that plays on third down, so I was the guy out and Brian [Cushing] was the guy in,” Ryans explained. “So when we are playing teams who are playing five wide, of course I don’t see the field [as much]. It wasn’t that I didn’t fit the 3-4 scheme. A lot of people put that out there, but that wasn’t the case at all.”

This season with the Eagles, Ryans has played 99.7 percent of the snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. That has resulted in 146 tackles and 16 tackles for a loss, per the stats kept by the team. As Sheil has brought to light, no player in the Andy Reidera has posted more tackles for a loss in a season.

“Just getting back out there, getting into the feel of the game, not on and off, on and off. This year I felt great and I had fun out there,” said Ryans.

It is possible that his dip in production last season was  injury-related as well. Ryans suffered a torn Achilles and missed the majority of the 2010 campaign for Houston. It is totally plausible that were some lingering effects.

He made it pretty clear that this year that those issues are behind him, and is willing to adapt to whatever situation — or scheme — is thrown at him.

“Teams turn over a lot nowadays. You have to approach it like any other time,” said Ryans. “If there are changes, you have to roll with whatever is in front of you. I accept whatever is put out there in front of me.”

[CalgaryFan77]

LaxPlayerX3, on 02 January 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

You realize as in inside linebacker you still play weak or strongside right?

[Footballman175]

Why would we go back to the defense that DeMeco struggled in? Yeah, makes a lot of sense

[LaxPlayerX3]

CalgaryFan77, on 02 January 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

You realize as in inside linebacker you still play weak or strongside right?

I thought of that but I've just never heard them referred to that. I'm used to 4-3 terminology.

[BtotheH]

Honestly the way our defense has played in the past years I am not so sure I would want to risk switching to a 3-4 hoping that players like Cole, Graham, Cox and our LB's could make the transition successfully. In my opinion, if you are switching to a 3-4 then you need at least 50% of your front seven to have played it before, if not more than half of your players. I am not so sure guys like Landri or Tapp would do well in a 3-4, but hey thats just me.

4-3 can still be a good defense. The Falcons, Bengals, Seahawks still run a 4-3 and their in the playoff with pretty good defenses.

3-4 defenses do have their advantages but again I am not confident in taking the chance because if it were to backfire then your looking at another 2 years before you can get personnel to make it better.

Just draft players in the draft that fit your scheme and you will do fine.

[Phila.:chip]

Why do people think that Graham and Cole would need lose weight to play OLB in the 3-4 ? They're around the 270 mark. Woodley is 265. Freeney is 268. Aldon smith is 261. Elvis Dumervil is 260. You've got some guys like Miller and Harrison, but they're a little under sized.

Now as far as the 3-4 is concerned, if it were up to me, I'd say hell no ! We have a lot of holes on defense. We need a SAM, because Kendricks is not a SAM, and we need a whole new starting secondary. We're not keeping Nnamdi. We're not matching anybody for DRC in FA, because they'll be some teams willing to pay him because of his ability, and we don't have any safeties. Why add a NT and possibly two starting 3-4 outsider backers to the list of needs ? We don't know if Cole and Graham can play in space.

[ndirish5567]

With players that are on the roster, you have feasible options. I do think you'd target a specific player or two in the draft if you moved to a 3-4 - Star Lotulelei or Jarvis Jones (depending on how he checks out medically).

DE - Fletcher Cox, Cedric Thornton
NT - Star Lotulelei, Mike Patterson
DE - Cullen Jenkins, Phillip Hunt

OLB - Mychal Kendricks (Yes, outside linebacker), Vinny Curry
ILB - DeMeco Ryans, Casey Matthews
ILB - Jamar Cheney
OLB - Trent Cole, Brandon Graham

CB - Nnamdi Asomugha, Brandon Boykin
S - Nate Allen
S - Kurt Coleman
CB - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Curtis Marsh

Kendricks played OLB at Cal and was very good. You can play him inside or outside and be fine.

The players I'd be most worried about are Trent Cole and Mike Patterson. Patterson would have to get big again.

I think you'd really need to go out and not only draft 3-4 OLBs, but also get Star and a nice backup NT in free agency.

Graham and Kendricks would be good fits.

I wouldn't feel the least bit concerned having Ryans in a 3-4 on the inside. We would need to address another ILB in FA or the first 3 rounds though. Get a solid kid like Shayne Skov or Jon Bostic in the 3rd or 4th.

[BtotheH]

ndirish5567, on 02 January 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

With players that are on the roster, you have feasible options. I do think you'd target a specific player or two in the draft if you moved to a 3-4 - Star Lotulelei or Jarvis Jones (depending on how he checks out medically).

DE - Fletcher Cox, Cedric Thornton
NT - Star Lotulelei, Mike Patterson
DE - Cullen Jenkins, Phillip Hunt

OLB - Mychal Kendricks (Yes, outside linebacker), Vinny Curry
ILB - DeMeco Ryans, Casey Matthews
ILB - Jamar Cheney
OLB - Trent Cole, Brandon Graham

CB - Nnamdi Asomugha, Brandon Boykin
S - Nate Allen
S - Kurt Coleman
CB - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Curtis Marsh

Kendricks played OLB at Cal and was very good. You can play him inside or outside and be fine.

The players I'd be most worried about are Trent Cole and Mike Patterson. Patterson would have to get big again.

I think you'd really need to go out and not only draft 3-4 OLBs, but also get Star and a nice backup NT in free agency.

Graham and Kendricks would be good fits.

I wouldn't feel the least bit concerned having Ryans in a 3-4 on the inside. We would need to address another ILB in FA or the first 3 rounds though. Get a solid kid like Shayne Skov or Jon Bostic in the 3rd or 4th.

You got to be effing kidding me right? Coleman and Allen on this defense in 2013? Whew I hope not!!!!!!

[Phila.:chip]

CalgaryFan77, on 02 January 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

You realize as in inside linebacker you still play weak or strongside right?

Not all the time. The Steelers for example don't play the strong or weak side with their linebackers. Some teams, all linebackers play the strong or weak side. On others only the outside lbs switch, and some don't switch at all.

[ndirish5567]

CalgaryFan77, on 02 January 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

You realize as in inside linebacker you still play weak or strongside right?

Not really. I talk to coaches at many levels on a daily basis bro and in the 3-4 you're either the MIKE or the WILL at this point. On the outside, I don't even hear weak or strongside anymore. It's also specialty names. Cat, dog, hero, trump, jackal, etc...

I can't tell you the last time a 3-4 coach used weak or strong side for ILBs in a 3-4 with me.

BtotheH, on 02 January 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

You got to be effing kidding me right? Coleman and Allen on this defense in 2013? Whew I hope not!!!!!!

Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. How about you go read the first few sentences I wrote again dude.

[Rodney_Zero]

proveagle, on 02 January 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

.

OLB - Graham played 3-4 in college.  

No he did'nt

[Rodney_Zero]

It's a rare thing to see a small LB in a 3/4, all of our LB's are 4-3 LB's, BTW, Jenkins can play DE, can Cox?, he played in a 4-3 in college, and in our 4-3 this past year year showed he could get penetration. So what now?

PS- 3 of the top 5 defenses where 4-3

[ndirish5567]

Brandon Graham played 95% of his snaps at DE at Michigan. His others were at DT.

[Phila.:chip]

ndirish5567, on 02 January 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

With players that are on the roster, you have feasible options. I do think you'd target a specific player or two in the draft if you moved to a 3-4 - Star Lotulelei or Jarvis Jones (depending on how he checks out medically).

DE - Fletcher Cox, Cedric Thornton
NT - Star Lotulelei, Mike Patterson
DE - Cullen Jenkins, Phillip Hunt

OLB - Mychal Kendricks (Yes, outside linebacker), Vinny Curry
ILB - DeMeco Ryans, Casey Matthews
ILB - Jamar Cheney
OLB - Trent Cole, Brandon Graham

CB - Nnamdi Asomugha, Brandon Boykin
S - Nate Allen
S - Kurt Coleman
CB - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Curtis Marsh

Kendricks played OLB at Cal and was very good. You can play him inside or outside and be fine.

The players I'd be most worried about are Trent Cole and Mike Patterson. Patterson would have to get big again.

I think you'd really need to go out and not only draft 3-4 OLBs, but also get Star and a nice backup NT in free agency.

Graham and Kendricks would be good fits.

I wouldn't feel the least bit concerned having Ryans in a 3-4 on the inside. We would need to address another ILB in FA or the first 3 rounds though. Get a solid kid like Shayne Skov or Jon Bostic in the 3rd or 4th.

Putting Kendricks at OLB in a 3-4 is insane. He's not an edge rusher. He's a weakside linebacker. In the 3-4 the weak inside backer's responsibilities aren't that different from a WILL's responsibility in the 3-4.  Andy Reid is gone; we don't need to continue putting square pegs in round holes.

[ndirish5567]

Phila.:chip, on 02 January 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Putting Kendricks at OLB in a 3-4 is insane. He's not an edge rusher. He's a weakside linebacker. In the 3-4 the weak inside backer's responsibilities aren't that different from a WILL's responsibility in the 3-4.  Andy Reid is gone; we don't need to continue putting square pegs in round holes.

Is it now and isn't he?

Interesting.

Almost led the NCAA in sacks his junior year in college as an outside linebacker in a 3-4. Had 15 tackles for loss in the regular season alone.

What do I know though, only run one of the top NFL Draft sites in the country.

[axe_man_trotter]

If the new head coach does plan to come in and implement a 3-4 defense, which I certainly would agree with, my biggest question is who do you choose with your first pick? Star or Jarvis Jones?

Assuming both of them are still there when we pick.

[ndirish5567]

Mayock is wrong too as he lauded Kendricks when we picked him, saying he thought he'd be terrific in either a 4-3 or 3-4 as an OLB.

axe_man_trotter, on 02 January 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

If the new head coach does plan to come in and implement a 3-4 defense, which I certainly would agree with, my biggest question is who do you choose with your first pick? Star or Jarvis Jones?

Assuming both of them are still there when we pick.

Star

[LaxPlayerX3]

axe_man_trotter, on 02 January 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

If the new head coach does plan to come in and implement a 3-4 defense, which I certainly would agree with, my biggest question is who do you choose with your first pick? Star or Jarvis Jones?

Assuming both of them are still there when we pick.

Star is the easy pick

[ndirish5567]

Well, that's enough of TATE. Love the couch scouts who spent some time checking out a highlight reel instead of watching a kid play 10 games over a 2 year span telling me what I don't know.

[f_dallas]

Rodney_Zero, on 02 January 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

It's a rare thing to see a small LB in a 3/4, all of our LB's are 4-3 LB's, BTW, Jenkins can play DE, can Cox?, he played in a 4-3 in college, and in our 4-3 this past year year showed he could get penetration. So what now?

PS- 3 of the top 5 defenses where 4-3

Eh...and 5 of the top 9 were 3-4 (despite the fact that 4-3 defenses still outnumber 3-4 defenses two to one).

I like the idea of switching to the 3-4 because because I think it's a simple matter of scheme versatility and supply/demand.  I think it's easier to find an impact rusher capable of playing outside in the 3-4 than it is to find a DE who can rush the passer and play the run.  I also think a lot of good inside backers fall in the draft because they have questionable range and you can protect them a little bit in the 3-4, allowing you to get a relatively good bargain on a really good ILB who may not be the fleetest of foot.

[axe_man_trotter]

ndirish5567, on 02 January 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Mayock is wrong too as he lauded Kendricks when we picked him, saying he thought he'd be terrific in either a 4-3 or 3-4 as an OLB.



Star

And if he's gone? Do you go Jones at 4?

[eagle45]

I'd really like to see Graham as an OLB in a 3-4...paired with Jarvis Jones at #4 overall with Cox at DE.  I think that might actually be something to build with.

[Eagles3785]

To have a successful 3-4 D you need a solid NT (see steelers, pats, ravens) OR one hell of a outside LB who's a solid pass rusher (see Cowboys/Ware and Old school Giants with LT)

We don't exactly have that guy for a nose tackle or Linebacker so i'd say just stick with the 4-3 and find some safety's who can play