72 replies to this topic

[eagle45]

evilwaldo, on 02 January 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Can't read the article.  Too much cookie spam.

Graham a week ago saying he'd be hyped to play in space and to go "back to olb.".

[evilwaldo]

axe_man_trotter, on 02 January 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Ok say we take Star with the #4 pick. Obviously that means we aren't getting Jones too.

Question is what other top edge rushers are coming out that we could possibly get with our 2nd pick? or possibly by trading up a few spots and getting back into the end of the first round.

Something similar to what Green Bay did in 2009. They got BJ Raji at #9 and Clay Matthews at #26

You would have to start in free agency and see what you can cobble together there.  Then trade the guys that do not fit for draft picks and move around depending on the draft board.

eagle45, on 02 January 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Graham a week ago saying he'd be hyped to play in space and to go "back to olb.".

He was never at OLB at Michigan.

The only space he played in at Michigan was chasing guys as they blew by him on the way to the end zone.  His senior year the defense was bad, like high school level bad.

[Rodney_Zero]

evilwaldo, on 02 January 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

.



He was never at OLB at Michigan.

Neither was Woodly, Carlos Emmons, Kerrigan, Orapko, Wake, and many other OLB's in a NFL 3-4 defense

The only space he played in at Michigan was chasing guys as they blew by him on the way to the end zone.  His senior year the defense was bad, like high school level bad.
I'm sure there have been many college players on bad defenses that have done well in the NFL

[evilwaldo]

Like I said before, if I were an OC I would abuse him during a game.

People are projecting Graham to a solid to great OLB in the 3-4 when he has yet to show that he can be a solid DE in a 4-3 scheme.  It is TATEr talk.

Was he dominant at Michigan on a bad defense?  Nope.

[philaphan018]

ndirish5567, on 02 January 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

With players that are on the roster, you have feasible options. I do think you'd target a specific player or two in the draft if you moved to a 3-4 - Star Lotulelei or Jarvis Jones (depending on how he checks out medically).

DE - Fletcher Cox, Cedric Thornton
NT - Star Lotulelei, Mike Patterson
DE - Cullen Jenkins, Phillip Hunt

OLB - Mychal Kendricks (Yes, outside linebacker), Vinny Curry
ILB - DeMeco Ryans, Casey Matthews
ILB - Jamar Cheney
OLB - Trent Cole, Brandon Graham

CB - Nnamdi Asomugha, Brandon Boykin
S - Nate Allen
S - Kurt Coleman
CB - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Curtis Marsh

Kendricks played OLB at Cal and was very good. You can play him inside or outside and be fine.

The players I'd be most worried about are Trent Cole and Mike Patterson. Patterson would have to get big again.

I think you'd really need to go out and not only draft 3-4 OLBs, but also get Star and a nice backup NT in free agency.

Graham and Kendricks would be good fits.

I wouldn't feel the least bit concerned having Ryans in a 3-4 on the inside. We would need to address another ILB in FA or the first 3 rounds though. Get a solid kid like Shayne Skov or Jon Bostic in the 3rd or 4th.

you failed to adress our biggest need the secondary COMPLETELY!!!! that defense would be even worse than the one we have now... Phillip Hunt a 240 LB 3-4 DE? I dont think so bro

[axe_man_trotter]

philaphan018, on 02 January 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

you failed to adress our biggest need the secondary COMPLETELY!!!! that defense would be even worse than the one we have now... Phillip Hunt a 240 LB 3-4 DE? I dont think so bro

He mentioned in his first sentence he was basing that off the players that are on the roster right now. I think it's a no brainer there needs to be big changes in the secondary.

[evilwaldo]

If you are going to go 3-4 scrap everyone and throw them out.

Start from scratch with FA.

[birdguy]

CalgaryFan77, on 02 January 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Personally I think we have way more holes in our front 7 in a 3-4. Ryans, Kendricks, Cox are the only players I have any confidence in being useful as starters.

I can see us needing a nose tackle, a defensive end, two outside linebackers to start.   And that doesn't even address the fact we need two new starting corners and at least one new starting safety at the back.

While I completely agree that a transition to the 3-4 opens up more holes, I think we can all agree that this is not going to be a one year fix on the defensive side of the ball regardless.  We have glaring holes at CB (x2), FS, SS, SAM and DT .... and that is all assuming we stay with the 4-3.  With that being said, I don't think that we should necessarily wed ourselves to the 4-3 just because our current personnel don't perfectly transition to the 3-4.  This team has too many holes to fill in one offseason if we are done with the free agent frenzies of the past and plan to build through the draft.  If the new coach wants to run a 3-4 then we may be looking at a full defensive rebuild spanning two or three offseasons ala Indianapolis or Green Bay a few years ago.

[evilwaldo]

birdguy, on 02 January 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

While I completely agree that a transition to the 3-4 opens up more holes, I think we can all agree that this is not going to be a one year fix on the defensive side of the ball regardless.  We have glaring holes at CB (x2), FS, SS, SAM and DT .... and that is all assuming we stay with the 4-3.  With that being said, I don't think that we should necessarily wed ourselves to the 4-3 just because our current personnel don't perfectly transition to the 3-4.  This team has too many holes to fill in one offseason if we are done with the free agent frenzies of the past and plan to build through the draft.  If the new coach wants to run a 3-4 then we may be looking at a full defensive rebuild spanning two or three offseasons ala Indianapolis or Green Bay a few years ago.

personally, I would go Luke because it fixes our problems on offense, making the assumption that everyone comes back healthy, leaving us to use the rest of the draft and FA on defense.

You can get a zone CB cheap and same for a decent safety depending on the scheme but I agree that it will be a full rebuild.

[Rodney_Zero]

evilwaldo, on 02 January 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

Like I said before, if I were an OC I would abuse him during a game.

People are projecting Graham to a solid to great OLB in the 3-4 when he has yet to show that he can be a solid DE in a 4-3 scheme.  It is TATEr talk.

Was he dominant at Michigan on a bad defense?  Nope.

IMO, I don't think graham would be a great OLB in a 3-4, as for a bad defense @ Mich like I said, if you can play, you can play regardless of how your teams D is

[Innocence096]

ndirish5567, on 02 January 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Not really. I talk to coaches at many levels on a daily basis bro and in the 3-4 you're either the MIKE or the WILL at this point. On the outside, I don't even hear weak or strongside anymore. It's also specialty names. Cat, dog, hero, trump, jackal, etc...

I can't tell you the last time a 3-4 coach used weak or strong side for ILBs in a 3-4 with me.



Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. How about you go read the first few sentences I wrote again dude.

yeha my highschool ran a 4-4 defense and we werent strongside or weakside anything. all the linebacker positions were named after animals. The outsides were Wildcat and Hawk

[evilwaldo]

Rodney_Zero, on 02 January 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

IMO, I don't think graham would be a great OLB in a 3-4, as for a bad defense @ Mich like I said, if you can play, you can play regardless of how your teams D is

Honestly, I went to 4 home games his senior year and he never stood out.  There were times when I mentioned that he was considered first round talent and people looked at me like I was nuts.

He was a first round talent on measurables.  In terms of play that was bad and any sort of good play would have stood out.  They were giving up 30+ points weekly because Rich Rod was focused on the offense.  It was like watching a reverse Buddy Ryan.

[Lancelot Gobbo]

BtotheH, on 02 January 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

4-3 can still be a good defense. The Falcons, Bengals, Seahawks still run a 4-3 and their in the playoff with pretty good defenses.

it's obvious our current players can't play in the 4-3...might as well try something else