29 replies to this topic

[FootballGod]

I'm on the record in previous posts as saying it doesn't matter which side of the ball the new coach comes from as long as he hires an excellent staff and finds players that fit his philosophy on both sides of the ball.

It seems as though most of the hot candidates are offensive coaches and the media has decided to run with the mantra that with today's rules offensive minded coaches are the way to go.

This seemed like BS to me so I did a study and found that it was in fact BS. Glad to see the Eagles are bucking the trend by giving Mike Nolan and Gus Bradley a look.

2012 Win Totals (Took the Saints out of the equation Kromer-offense/Vitt-defense.)

Offense (Avg 7.63 Wins)
Kubiak 12
Jim Harbaugh 11.5   
McCarthy 11
Arians 11   
Shanahan 10
Coughlin 9
Garrett 8
Philbin 7
Turner 7
Gailey 6   
Munchak 6
Whisenhunt 5   
Shurmur 5
Reid 4
Mularkey 2
     
Defense (Avg 8.41 Wins)   
M Smith 13
Fox 13
Belichick 12
Carroll 11
John Harbaugh 10
L Smith 10
Lewis 10
Frazier 10
Tomlin 8
Fisher 7.5   
Rivera 7
Schiano 7
Ryan 6
Schwartz 4
Allen 4
Crennel 2
  

[pgcd3]

I've wanted a defensive coach. Wasn't sure they'd do. I',m still not but I'm getting very into Gus Bradley right now

[E v 2.0]

Offensive coach is the obvious way to go. Scoring league. Passing league.

Crappy defenses are in the SB constantly.

Get a great DC but let an offensive head coach build your team.

[BillTheButcher]

last time i checked QB was an offensive position and the most important position.

nuff said.

[FanSinceWayBack]

I want defense and a defensive mind.

Patriots are 4th In Passing - 1st in Total Offense - and 1st in Scoring

How did it work out for them when they played San Fran at home?
How did it work out when they lost the SB?

A great Defense will always keep you in the game,

[E v 2.0]

FanSinceWayBack, on 04 January 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

I want defense and a defensive mind.

Patriots are 4th In Passing - 1st in Total Offense - and 1st in Scoring

How did it work out for them when they played San Fran at home?
How did it work out when they lost the SB?

You're using the Pats as a negative argument? Did the Niners go to the SB last yr? Cause the Pats sure did. Brady went 16-0  with no defense at all a few yrs ago. He's also been to 2 recent SBs.

The Giants were ranked 27th last yr in defense.

[BillTheButcher]

FanSinceWayBack, on 04 January 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

I want defense and a defensive mind.

Patriots are 4th In Passing - 1st in Total Offense - and 1st in Scoring

How did it work out for them when they played San Fran at home?
How did it work out when they lost the SB?

A great Defense will always keep you in the game,

defense keeps you in the game, offense WINS it

[AceofSpades]

BillTheButcher, on 04 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

last time i checked QB was an offensive position and the most important position.

nuff said.

Bill we've gone back and forth on this, nothing wrong with finding a strong minded offensive coordinator who can develop the QB. People say it's easier to find a defensive coordinator than it is an offensive coordinator. I'm not buying that for a minute.

[FootballGod]

E v 2.0, on 04 January 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

You're using the Pats as a negative argument? Did the Niners go to the SB last yr? Cause the Pats sure did. Brady went 16-0  with no defense at all a few yrs ago. He's also been to 2 recent SBs.

The Giants were ranked 27th last yr in defense.

Belichick was a defensive coordinator!

[E v 2.0]

So? The Pats are all offense. Their defense has been horrible for quite a while.

[FootballGod]

E v 2.0, on 04 January 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

So? The Pats are all offense. Their defense has been horrible for quite a while.

Perfect example of how a defensive minded coach can still develop a great offense.

[pgcd3]

FootballGod, on 04 January 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Perfect example of how a defensive minded coach can still develop a great offense.

Exactly, a defensive oriented coa ch doesnt mean your offense will suck

[E v 2.0]

pgcd3, on 04 January 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

Exactly, a defensive oriented coa ch doesnt mean your offense will suck

Yeah if you have Tom Brady.

I mean sure if a defensive coach has a horrible defense and a great offense then that works.

[FootballGod]

BillTheButcher, on 04 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

last time i checked QB was an offensive position and the most important position.

nuff said.

P Manning, Brady, Ryan, Roethlisberger have thrived under defensive coaches Dungy/Fox, Belichick, Smith, and Cowher/Tomlin.

Romo, Rivers, and Vick have not recently won under offensive coaches Garrett, Turner, Reid.

Meanwhile less experienced QB's Wilson, Dalton, Ponder are in the playoffs under defensive coaches Carroll, Lewis, Frazier.

[pgcd3]

E v 2.0, on 04 January 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Yeah if you have Tom Brady.

I mean sure if a defensive coach has a horrible defense and a great offense then that works.

A head coach needs to be a great leader. Look at John harbaugh he's was ST coordinator. John fox, Marvin Lewis, Leslie Frazier all defensive guys (not all great but playoff teams nonetheless). At some point a head coach rises above his background and is more of a leader than a coordinator anyway

[FootballGod]

E v 2.0, on 04 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Offensive coach is the obvious way to go. Scoring league. Passing league.

Crappy defenses are in the SB constantly.

Get a great DC but let an offensive head coach build your team.

If the league is trending towards making it easier to throw the ball, then in theory everyone should be able to throw it.

So why does your head coach need to be a great offensive mind to accomplish this?

Instead, why not try to find a coach that can implement a defensive system that is successful regardless of the rule changes?

[Bravens1]

E v 2.0, on 04 January 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

So? The Pats are all offense. Their defense has been horrible for quite a while.

Pats have fixed their D this year, will give Payton Manning and Denver a real battle in the AFC Final. Yes my Ravens will be ousted before then...

[FanSinceWayBack]

E v 2.0, on 04 January 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

You're using the Pats as a negative argument? Did the Niners go to the SB last yr? Cause the Pats sure did. Brady went 16-0  with no defense at all a few yrs ago. He's also been to 2 recent SBs.

The Giants were ranked 27th last yr in defense.

The Giants were 27th during the season, which they are always sub-par. Ray Charles could see the Giants D during the playoffs wasnt the same D through the season.


Lets look back at those Patriots:

2011 - Lost SB to Giants who got there how? Through defense and a "Above average" offense
2010 - Lost in the Divisional Round to NY Jets .. Again defense!
2009 - Lost in the Wildcard to Baltimore .... Defense? No no not Baltimore!
2008 - Didnt qualify for playoffs
2007 - Lost SB to Giants (Off luck play) but still yet only put up 14 points? What a juggernaut!
2006 - Lost in Conf. Champ. to Colts in an offensive shoot-out
2005 - Lost in Divisional to Denver and only put up 13 points ... Impressive!
2004 - Won SB against a puking McNabb

Hmmmmm

[E v 2.0]

FanSinceWayBack, on 05 January 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

The Giants were 27th during the season, which they are always sub-par. Ray Charles could see the Giants D during the playoffs wasnt the same D through the season.


Lets look back at those Patriots:

2011 - Lost SB to Giants who got there how? Through defense and a "Above average" offense
2010 - Lost in the Divisional Round to NY Jets .. Again defense!
2009 - Lost in the Wildcard to Baltimore .... Defense? No no not Baltimore!
2008 - Didnt qualify for playoffs
2007 - Lost SB to Giants (Off luck play) but still yet only put up 14 points? What a juggernaut!
2006 - Lost in Conf. Champ. to Colts in an offensive shoot-out
2005 - Lost in Divisional to Denver and only put up 13 points ... Impressive!
2004 - Won SB against a puking McNabb

Hmmmmm

But dude look at that record for the Pats lol

I mean that's a pretty fantastic run and almost half of it with a crap defense.

I'm not saying I don't like defense but if I had to pick one or the other it wouldn't be that hard to chose.

If a guy is a so so offensive coach and a really good defensive coach is available then I'd take the defensive guy obviously but all things being equal I'd take offense.

[FanSinceWayBack]

E v 2.0, on 05 January 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

But dude look at that record for the Pats lol

Well you also have to take into account that NE pretty much gets a free pass into the playoffs MOST years cause there division is total trash.... Buffalo, NYJ, and Miami? Theres 6-0 or 5-1 already. I prefer Defense and most prefer Offense. Thats all that is.

[inhumanehuman]

Owners hire coaches. Coaches establish style. Offensive style sells more tickets. Tickets make money for the owner.

Make sense?

That being said, I really want a defensive minded coach, seeing as how we have an incredibly talented, incredibly young offensive unit. I truly believe this offense (when healthy) can score 24 ppg with a HS head coach.

[nottsfootballfan]

Look at the super bowl cchampions of the last ten years.

Almost all offense

[IggleWalt]

I want the best candidate. I don't care if he is offensive or defensive. As long as they hire the best people for the OC/DC position the rest is moot.

[craigj]

FootballGod, on 04 January 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Perfect example of how a defensive minded coach can still develop a great offense.

The Pats have to put up 40-50 points because their defense can't keep the opposition from scoring. Without Brady the Pats are nothing but a midget offense with no giant to throw the ball.

Defensive minded? I don't think so. If he was so good defensively he wouldn't cheat on opposition defenses.

[craig_78]

The current rules make it much harder to pull off a good defense and easier for offense.

[FanSinceWayBack]

inhumanehuman, on 05 January 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

That being said, I really want a defensive minded coach, seeing as how we have an incredibly talented, incredibly young offensive unit. I truly believe this offense (when healthy) can score 24 ppg with a HS head coach.

Probably close to being true lol

craigj, on 05 January 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

The Pats have to put up 40-50 points because their defense can't keep the opposition from scoring. Without Brady the Pats are nothing but a midget offense with no giant to throw the ball.

BB is a game planner. I would say he is well balanced. Anyone that can plug in WR's at DB and make it work knows more than your average joe. You can bring up Spy Gate or what ever and that does taint there accomplishments, but you cant deny that he is a good head coach.

Brady does make that team go though.

[FootballGod]

craigj, on 05 January 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

The Pats have to put up 40-50 points because their defense can't keep the opposition from scoring. Without Brady the Pats are nothing but a midget offense with no giant to throw the ball.

Defensive minded? I don't think so. If he was so good defensively he wouldn't cheat on opposition defenses.

You must have missed the Bill Parcells era. How do you think he got the job in New England in the first place?

[FootballGod]

nottsfootballfan, on 05 January 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Look at the super bowl cchampions of the last ten years.

Almost all offense

The last ten super bowl championship coaches have been 5-5 in reference to what side of the ball they came from before they were head coaches.

Offense   
Gruden - 1
Coughlin - 2
Payton - 1
McCarthy - 1

Defense
Belichick -2
Tomlin - 2
Dungy - 1

[Vee]

"What really sticks out in my mind with Bradley is his ability to command the respect of his players, the high praise from Monte Kiffin and the continued improvement his defense has shown each season. With the talent the Eagles have on defense already and the early draft picks they will receive this season, Bradley can quickly turn the Eagles defense into an elite unit. If he hires a good offensive coordinator(Norv Turner, Chan Gailey and Pat Shurmur should all be available) he should get this time back into contention in year one."

i cut and pasted this from some article.

I agree.

[BillTheButcher]

craigj, on 05 January 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

The Pats have to put up 40-50 points because their defense can't keep the opposition from scoring. Without Brady the Pats are nothing but a midget offense with no giant to throw the ball.

Defensive minded? I don't think so. If he was so good defensively he wouldn't cheat on opposition defenses.

Gronk.