33 replies to this topic

[Hootie]

I dont get why the front office is so fascinated with college coaches with no NFL experience.  When is the last time that approach worked out for anyone in the NFL?

The formula isnt rocket scince Mr. Lurie- the Eagles lost their way because we went from being a tough team to a soft team.  We swappped the BDawks of the world the the Nate Allens, the Runyans of the world for soft O lineman, the Trotters of the world for casey Mathews or an older declining Ryans, and the Sheldon Browns of the world for CB's who hate to tackle. The Eagles were not relevent year after year because of Andy Reid- they were relevent because as a team we had toughness and leadership.   That's what's missing in the players and that's what needs to be rebuilt through the draft and the new coaches philosophy.

The formula for post season success in the NFL is not complicated.   Tough and MEAN D beats  quick fast offense "most" of the time.  Just look at both Giants SB wins- they beat NE cause they smacked everyone in the mouth all game long.  Brady isnt all that when you hit him.   Also, teams that can produce the 100+ yard rusher have a much better winning percentage than the teams who produce the 300+ yard passer- look i up- fact not opinion.

Forget the Mickey Mouse search for un-proven college coaches,  It's not the same animal.  Why is Saban such a good college coach but a bust in the NFL?  Because in the NFL you get ONE 1st round draft pick and in college recruiting you get MANY each year. Hell, Alabama gets the equivalent of 4 or 5 1st round picks with each recruiting class.  Not hard to kick a** with the best talent year after year.   Easy to build a winner when you can attact top talent year after year- much harder to peice a winner together with 7 or 8 total draft picks spread over 7 rounds- you actually need to do your research and you cant afford to miss on draft picks the way we do year after year- especialy 2004- 2011.  That's what kills an NFL franchise- bad drafts are worse than a bad coach imo.


So Jeff, Howie and Don- screw this college coach  crap- go get yourselves a proven NFL coach with the connections to build a proven NFL staff.  Re-instill toughness into our SOFT team.  Hire a coach who knows that being able to run the ball effectively on 3rd and short in January means more than scoring 40+ with some sexy "scheme" in SEPT that will never work in January. Hire a coach that KNOWS that the key to a winning D is being able to STOP the run and to be phyiscial on D.   Wouldnt it be nice if ANYONE feared going over the middle vs the Eagles again?  When's the last time someone feared an Eagles player on D?    (dont get me started on Graham over Earl Thomas in 2010- good call....NOT)  We dont need a college coach with a scheme- we need a leader who knows that even though the game has evolved the way you win in January isnt radicaly different than it's always been.  Strong beats weak- tough beats soft- strength beats weakness- big usually better than small( see WR's when it counts)

We have had enough of the "sexy team" or the "dream team"  Give us a"tough team" and see how that works out for ya!

[Golfesv]

I enjoed your spost and agree Especially Earl Thomas!! which is why I think they need to hire GUS BRADLEY. Look at what he has done and how seattle has built that defense!

[morphius12812003]

Hootie, on 10 January 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

I dont get why the front office is so fascinated with college coaches with no NFL experience.  When is the last time that approach worked out for anyone in the NFL?

The formula isnt rocket scince Mr. Lurie- the Eagles lost their way because we went from being a tough team to a soft team.  We swappped the BDawks of the world the the Nate Allens, the Runyans of the world for soft O lineman, the Trotters of the world for casey Mathews or an older declining Ryans, and the Sheldon Browns of the world for CB's who hate to tackle. The Eagles were not relevent year after year because of Andy Reid- they were relevent because as a team we had toughness and leadership.   That's what's missing in the players and that's what needs to be rebuilt through the draft and the new coaches philosophy.

The formula for post season success in the NFL is not complicated.   Tough and MEAN D beats  quick fast offense "most" of the time.  Just look at both Giants SB wins- they beat NE cause they smacked everyone in the mouth all game long.  Brady isnt all that when you hit him.   Also, teams that can produce the 100+ yard rusher have a much better winning percentage than the teams who produce the 300+ yard passer- look i up- fact not opinion.

Forget the Mickey Mouse search for un-proven college coaches,  It's not the same animal.  Why is Saban such a good college coach but a bust in the NFL?  Because in the NFL you get ONE 1st round draft pick and in college recruiting you get MANY each year. Hell, Alabama gets the equivalent of 4 or 5 1st round picks with each recruiting class.  Not hard to kick a** with the best talent year after year.   Easy to build a winner when you can attact top talent year after year- much harder to peice a winner together with 7 or 8 total draft picks spread over 7 rounds- you actually need to do your research and you cant afford to miss on draft picks the way we do year after year- especialy 2004- 2011.  That's what kills an NFL franchise- bad drafts are worse than a bad coach imo.


So Jeff, Howie and Don- screw this college coach  crap- go get yourselves a proven NFL coach with the connections to build a proven NFL staff.  Re-instill toughness into our SOFT team.  Hire a coach who knows that being able to run the ball effectively on 3rd and short in January means more than scoring 40+ with some sexy "scheme" in SEPT that will never work in January. Hire a coach that KNOWS that the key to a winning D is being able to STOP the run and to be phyiscial on D.   Wouldnt it be nice if ANYONE feared going over the middle vs the Eagles again?  When's the last time someone feared an Eagles player on D? (dont get me started on Graham over Earl Thomas in 2010- good call....NOT)  We dont need a college coach with a scheme- we need a leader who knows that even though the game has evolved the way you win in January isnt radicaly different than it's always been.  Strong beats weak- tough beats soft- strength beats weakness- big usually better than small( see WR's when it counts)

We have had enough of the "sexy team" or the "dream team"  Give us a"tough team" and see how that works out for ya!

Easily disprovable, go google it bro, and save the database space on this forum for more knowledgable postings.

[Hootie]

morphius12812003, on 10 January 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Easily disprovable, go google it bro, and save the database space on this forum for more knowledgable postings.

I love you guys who think because you have over 1000 posts here your opinion is somehow better than those of us with a life.   A few of the more recent college coaches with any success were either NFL players or coaches- hence they get it.   As for your  suggestion- take it yourself.

D McPherson
Frank Kush
Dennis Erickson
Bobby Petrino
Butch Davis
Steve Spurrier
Mike Riley
Lou Holtz
Nick Saban

All sucessful college coaches who were horrible in the NFL or ran back to college because they couldnt take it.    I know you have 1500 posts and you think that somehow makes your opinions more valid than guys who post less.......it doesnt.

[The_Talon]

actually after reading an article this morning on this Brian Kelly fellow (I don't really follow college football) he sounds exactly what we might be looking for.

He wins everywhere he's coached, and is known for his ability to build teams, motivate players, and on game day he makes good adjustments when needed.

I wouldn't expect him to turn the team around in a year but by year two or three, we should be contenders again.

On another note; OP, I'm not sure how old you are but I remember Buddy Ryan coaching the Eagles and having a very tough, very volatile team with great players on both sides of the ball. It still didn't translate to a championship. They couldn't win in the playoffs. Now that had more to do with lack of a real offensive game plan (BR's philosophy was "Hey, Randall, come up with one or two big plays and let the defense do the rest), but that just goes to show you need to have emphasis on more than just toughness.

We need a game day manager, a motivator, a great talent evaluator, etc.

[Hootie]

I thought O"Brian would have been a great fit but he is a guy with lots of NFL experience.  I think the reasons he stayed at Penn State speak directly to why he is a great coach and why he would have been an asset here.    I had no interest in the Oregon coach- call it a bad vibe or whatever....just wasnt feeling it.

Kelly from ND has had success - no arguement about that.  His track record of success if 20 years long.   But given a choice between him and a Bruce Arians type of guy- I will take the guy with a NFL track record of success.  Hell, Arians coached  a team that won a game or two last year, had a rookie qb(the best rookie qb) and took them to the playoffs this year.   He also had a huge part in the early success of Ben Rothlisberger.   That's the kind of guy I want.   A guy who has been part of successful NFL programs, has GREAT connections and relationships to build a NFL caliber staff, and has had that success in more than one place and with more than one player. It's a totally different job in the NFL than it is in college.   I am ny NO means saying that a college coach CANT win in the NFL- I just think there is more evidence of failure than success over the years with that route.


That said, I dont claim to know it all.....does someone know of a college coach in the last 20 years , with no NFL playing or coaching experience, who made it in the NFL?   Last one I can think of is Jimmy Johnson and Dallas- and that was 1989 or so.

[The_Talon]

I'm not as concerned with experience as I am with talent. I'm in business, and in management training we're always taught to hire talent over experience. The experience will be gained through trial and error, but the most experienced person doesn't always equate to the most talented.

[Footballman175]

Jim Harbaugh's Defense Is Soft?

Pete Carroll's Defense Is Soft?

[FanSinceWayBack]

The_Talon, on 10 January 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

actually after reading an article this morning on this Brian Kelly fellow (I don't really follow college football) he sounds exactly what we might be looking for.

He wins everywhere he's coached, and is known for his ability to build teams, motivate players, and on game day he makes good adjustments when needed.

He didnt make good adjustments or motivate his players well enough to even play Alabama decently close. I know he DOES have a track record of winning everywhere he goes, but I personally think the guy is a weasel and a phrick! Its all fine and dandy to work your way up the college ranks, everyone does it, but to the manner in how he handles it didnt sit well with me.

Another thing that didnt sit well. He had OVER a month to prepare for Alabama. Not only that, but had every game from this season at his disposal to game plan off of. Theres no reason to get humiliated, on national TV, during the biggest stage of College Football. Just an overall pathetic performance. Alabama is damn good, but even giants fall. They didnt even have an un-defeated season.

Hootie, on 10 January 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

I dont get why the front office is so fascinated with college coaches with no NFL experience. When is the last time that approach worked out for anyone in the NFL?

  49ers instantly come to mind and JH brought pretty much his ENTIRE staff from Stanford with him. Jimmy Johnson from Miami? Pete Carroll?

Your right though, its definitely a different horse jumping from College to NFL

[The_Talon]

Footballman175, on 10 January 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Jim Harbaugh's Defense Is Soft?

Pete Carroll's Defense Is Soft?

I was about to mention these guys myself. I think the OP will argue that Harbaugh had NFL experience as a player (and one or two years as a coach with the Raiders) and Carroll as coach.

Even still, we look at guys like Spurrier and Saban, and I tend to think they were more the victims of bad management/ownership. We all know what Dan Snyder's philosophy was before bringing in Shanahan. Even Joe Gibbs couldn't make it work there again.

[BIGPHILLY]

Calm down.

Calm down.

We can't hire 2-3 of the best options right now anyway. They are in the playoffs. Calm down.

[The_Talon]

FanSinceWayBack, on 10 January 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

He didnt make good adjustments or motivate his players well enough to even play Alabama decently close. I know he DOES have a track record of winning everywhere he goes, but I personally think the guy is a weasel and a phrick! Its all fine and dandy to work your way up the college ranks, everyone does it, but to the manner in how he handles it didnt sit well with me.

Another thing that didnt sit well. He had OVER a month to prepare for Alabama. Not only that, but had every game from this season at his disposal to game plan off of. Theres no reason to get humiliated, on national TV, during the biggest stage of College Football. Just an overall pathetic performance. Alabama is damn good, but even giants fall. They didnt even have an un-defeated season.

  49ers instantly come to mind and JH brought pretty much his ENTIRE staff from Stanford with him. Jimmy Johnson from Miami? Pete Carroll?

Your right though, its definitely a different horse jumping from College to NFL

I don't know enough about college football to even debate with you. I didn't watch the game. I know they got their clocks cleaned, and from what I've heard, Alabama is that good.

You mentioned they had a month to prepare? Did they not play for a month? Maybe they were just a little rusty. Practicing is one thing. Playing is another. Playing a team as good as Alabama is even another. I get what you're saying, but no one is going to win every single game they play or coach.

[FanSinceWayBack]

The_Talon, on 10 January 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

I don't know enough about college football to even debate with you. I didn't watch the game. I know they got their clocks cleaned, and from what I've heard, Alabama is that good.

You mentioned they had a month to prepare? Did they not play for a month? Maybe they were just a little rusty. Practicing is one thing. Playing is another. Playing a team as good as Alabama is even another. I get what you're saying, but no one is going to win every single game they play or coach.

They lost to a Freshman. He DID win the Heisman, but a freshman none the less.

I agree no coach will win every game, but you gotta pick a better game to shhit the bed in. Lose to a Top 5/10 team in the beginning of the year, dont get embarrassed in the National Championship lol

[dmor]

Hootie, on 10 January 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

I love you guys who think because you have over 1000 posts here your opinion is somehow better than those of us with a life.   A few of the more recent college coaches with any success were either NFL players or coaches- hence they get it.   As for your  suggestion- take it yourself.

D McPherson
Frank Kush
Dennis Erickson
Bobby Petrino
Butch Davis
Steve Spurrier
Mike Riley
Lou Holtz
Nick Saban

All sucessful college coaches who were horrible in the NFL or ran back to college because they couldnt take it. I know you have 1500 posts and you think that somehow makes your opinions more valid than guys who post less.......it doesnt.

Jim Harbaugh
Pete Carroll

[baldawgbites]

Hootie, on 10 January 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

I dont get why the front office is so fascinated with college coaches with no NFL experience.  When is the last time that approach worked out for anyone in the NFL?

Jim Harbaugh, Pete Carroll, and Greg Schiano, seems to be Doing a Damn Good Job in Tampa.... so that would be.... THIS SEASON.... idiot.


The last Guy the Eagles Hired from College brought us to the SB and Won one With St.Louis... his Name was D Vermeil.

[FloridaBill]

The_Talon, on 10 January 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

I'm not as concerned with experience as I am with talent. I'm in business, and in management training we're always taught to hire talent over experience. The experience will be gained through trial and error, but the most experienced person doesn't always equate to the most talented.

While you're losing money and business through trial and error cheap talent and that is all it amounts to, is cheap labor. I who also was in business and retired at age 50, found experience with the lack of trial and error inexperience, provided a far higher cost to benefit ratio even though experience came with a higher price tag. To think that the experienced candidate is not as talented is a misconception that has cost many managers their jobs. Poor evaluation of personnel's skill level. I agree with the opening poster.

[Phila.:chip]

You don't know what the hell we need. If the 49ers thought the way you do, where would they be right now ?

[baldawgbites]

Phila.:chip, on 10 January 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

You don't know what the hell we need. If the 49ers thought the way you do, where would they be right now ?

Excellent thought.

[Hootie]

Footballman175, on 10 January 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Jim Harbaugh's Defense Is Soft?

Pete Carroll's Defense Is Soft?

One played QB in the NFL- one has coached 2 other NFL teams along the way.  I was speaking of guys that have NEVER played or coach in the NFL.  Read more thoroughly next time

[Hootie]

baldawgbites, on 10 January 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Jim Harbaugh, Pete Carroll, and Greg Schiano, seems to be Doing a Damn Good Job in Tampa.... so that would be.... THIS SEASON.... idiot.


The last Guy the Eagles Hired from College brought us to the SB and Won one With St.Louis... his Name was D Vermeil.

Only guy on your list without NFL experience( not including your reach back 40 years) is Schiano.  You guys are a trip- calling me out- calling me names.  Read the post.  It was not a BLACK and WHITE thing.  Not all or nothing.   The point was....and still is- that the track record of COLLEGE coaches who DID NOT EVER PLAY OR COACH in the NFL isnt good.  

Youi guys will argue any point and call names over it at the drop of a hat- now I remember why I dont frequent these boards anymore.  It's like arguing with my teenager....pointless.

[baldawgbites]

Hootie, on 10 January 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

One played QB in the NFL- one has coached 2 other NFL teams along the way.  I was speaking of guys that have NEVER played or coach in the NFL.  Read more thoroughly next time

Greg Schiano in Tampa.... They were close to being a playoff team... So THIS year was the last Time.

[FanSinceWayBack]

Hootie, on 10 January 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Only guy on your list without NFL experience( not including your reach back 40 years) is Schiano.  You guys are a trip- calling me out- calling me names.  Read the post.  It was not a BLACK and WHITE thing.  Not all or nothing.   The point was....and still is- that the track record of COLLEGE coaches who DID NOT EVER PLAY OR COACH in the NFL isnt good.  

Youi guys will argue any point and call names over it at the drop of a hat- now I remember why I dont frequent these boards anymore.  It's like arguing with my teenager....pointless.

Boy or girl ? jk jk ... Ive only been here for about 2-3 months and I can tell intelligent post(ers) from idiots. Pay no mind to who you think is an idiot... its not THAT HARD to do. If you dont frequent these boards due to immaturity and ignorant ish then you must no get out in the world much. The world is going to ish and its not because idiots only roam forums... just a thought

[Runtherock]

Op has a point. Lurie appears obsessed with the latest and greatest cutting edge offense BS. 20 years of ownership, one Super Bowl appearance. Enough with the smarter than everyone else nonsense. Lets build a team that's tougher and meaner than everyone else. Its a game of violence, cause more pain to them than they inflict on you.  Beat your man and win.

[The_Talon]

FloridaBill, on 10 January 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

While you're losing money and business through trial and error cheap talent and that is all it amounts to, is cheap labor. I who also was in business and retired at age 50, found experience with the lack of trial and error inexperience, provided a far higher cost to benefit ratio even though experience came with a higher price tag. To think that the experienced candidate is not as talented is a misconception that has cost many managers their jobs. Poor evaluation of personnel's skill level. I agree with the opening poster.

well then I must be one hell of a talent evaluator because I haven't seen a loss in years. My sales force has continued to raise revenue while cutting costs for the few years and we're not showing any signs of slowing down.

What I have found is that I've lost a couple of amazing people that were very talented because they weren't being promoted. They'd wind up going to other companies for promotions and are thriving today.

[morphius12812003]

Hootie, on 10 January 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

I love you guys who think because you have over 1000 posts here your opinion is somehow better than those of us with a life.   A few of the more recent college coaches with any success were either NFL players or coaches- hence they get it.   As for your  suggestion- take it yourself.

D McPherson
Frank Kush
Dennis Erickson
Bobby Petrino
Butch Davis
Steve Spurrier
Mike Riley
Lou Holtz
Nick Saban

All sucessful college coaches who were horrible in the NFL or ran back to college because they couldnt take it. I know you have 1500 posts and you think that somehow makes your opinions more valid than guys who post less.......it doesnt.

If I needed validation from you, I would have asked for a reference letter.  Just FYI, I have been a member of these boards since 2005, and that averages out to be maybe 1-2 postings a day, so there goes your "you have no life" quip.  Also, by lumping me in with "all the guys with 1000+ postings" category you obviously diminish the credibility of your own position.

[Innocence096]

yeah dont get me started on college coaches. I want an NFL coach to be hired since they work out 100% of the time.

[Baynit]

Its my guess the media has made college coaches going to the NFL a "trendy" thing and hypes it up.  Mostly because of the recent success of Harbaugh and Carroll.

[craigj]

It's about chemistry and luck as much as it's skill and talent.

We could get the best coach out there but if the players don't mix well, or "refuse to be led" then we'll be no better off than last season.

hit or miss regardless of where the coach comes from. We'll have to see it play out

[morphius12812003]

Baynit, on 10 January 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

Its my guess the media has made college coaches going to the NFL a "trendy" thing and hypes it up.  Mostly because of the recent success of Harbaugh and Carroll.

It's been going on for quite some time really.  Look back at Barry Switzer and Jimmy Johnson from THAT TEAM WHICH WILL NOT BE MENTIONED HERE.  Even then, there was an influx of college coaches in the league.  It is happening MORE frequently now, because coaches are being hired/fired at an increasingly rapid rate.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

I agree.  Why would we want to be the guinea pig for one of these guys?  Especially guys like Chip Kelly, Brian Kelly, and Nick Saban, where there are many college suitors waiting to scoop them back up when they fail.


The crazy part of this board claiming it is the best move is the 99.9% will never take any remote "risk" in their own life.  Will I go to McDonalds or Burger King today?   This is more like will I go to McDonalds or chocolate covered roaches from a back street cart in Baltimore?