72 replies to this topic

[stang8118]

http://espn.go.com/n...nsure-diversity

What a joke of a rule, and what a joke of an entity claiming they are upset. Why isn't the NFL held to the same standards in regards to black owners? Unless I am mistaken there aren't any black majority owners of a single NFL team. There are plenty of black coaches in the league, and there are plenty of black players in the league (well I guess I should say minority). Owners are running billion dollar franchises, and I doubt they could care any less at what color a persons skin is. The majority would want someone that is competent to do the job, regardless of skin color.

I think the rule should be adjusted as such:

Any owner that hasn't ever hired a minority head coach is required to interview at least two minority candidates.
If an owner has hired, and retained a minority for a period of at least two years that owner is exempt from the Rooney rule. In the event of new ownership of an organization they will start over, and be subjected to the Rooney rule.

These "token" interviews are such an insult to any minority, and the NFL should be ashamed at forcing rules like it is 1960.


EDIT: Does anyone know who the candidates were for Commish when Paul Tagliabou (sp?) retired? I'm sure it was probably all white men.

[lb7]

stang8118, on 18 January 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

http://espn.go.com/n...nsure-diversity

What a joke of a rule, and what a joke of an entity claiming they are upset. Why isn't the NFL held to the same standards in regards to black owners? Unless I am mistaken there aren't any black majority owners of a single NFL team. There are plenty of black coaches in the league, and there are plenty of black players in the league (well I guess I should say minority). Owners are running billion dollar franchises, and I doubt they could care any less at what color a persons skin is. The majority would want someone that is competent to do the job, regardless of skin color.

I think the rule should be adjusted as such:

Any owner that hasn't ever hired a minority head coach is required to interview at least two minority candidates.
If an owner has hired, and retained a minority for a period of at least two years that owner is exempt from the Rooney rule. In the event of new ownership of an organization they will start over, and be subjected to the Rooney rule.

These "token" interviews are such an insult to any minority, and the NFL should be ashamed at forcing rules like it is 1960.


EDIT: Does anyone know who the candidates were for Commish when Paul Tagliabou (sp?) retired? I'm sure it was probably all white men.

Bravo on your insight, it makes sense to me. BTW, I am all for the Rooney rule but I like your proposed change.

[stang8118]

http://usatoday30.us...-meetings_x.htm

Quote

Despite the secrecy, the front-runner remains Roger Goodell, Tagliabue's second in command. He appears to be one of three league-office people in contention — the others are Jeff Pash, the league's chief lawyer, and Eric Grubman, its top financial officer.

All white guys. Hypocrisy is such a wonderful thing isn't it?

[VaBeach_Eagle]

http://boards.philad...o-not-just-hcs/

[BlackPooL]

In a similar way that people say "If you don't want them to score, then play good defense."  when talking of running up the score.  If you want a head coaching job, show you are capable, and you'll get it.  Show something where others will say "Hey, that's something nobody else can bring us."

I mean, it's disgusting that a rule like this is even in place.  I'd prefer that guys get their interviews of their own accord, not just because teams have to give that one token interview before hiring a new coach.  You have to figure a lot of minority coaches must go into interviews wondering "Am I just getting this interview because they HAVE TO?"  Hell, 3/4s of them probably KNOW they're only filling the quota so to speak, when no other minorities are associated with the job.

If the NFL wants equal rights, they should make sure owners field at least 1 offer from a minority in the event that they sell their ownership of the team.  What about GM positions?  What about the NFL COMMISSIONER?  Did they make sure to interview a minority before handing the reigns over to Goodell?  Serious question, but I'm sure the answer is NO.

Forcing it is just stupid.  Qualified guys will get the jobs.  Chances are we're just in an age where white coaching candidates outnumber minority candidates still, and when there's 3 or 4 times as many white applicants as minority applicants, there's a good chance a white guy will get it.   The raw numbers are likely still against minorities.  I guess otherwise they wouldn't be called "minorities" after all, right?

[michaels maniacs]

hire  the best coach for the job period

stupid rule

if im an owner I should be able to hire who I want regardless of race

[pisceschica]

So are all the head coaching positions filled? I was curious as to where Lovie Smith was going to land, he wanted to be a head coach, but the way things are looking it might not happen.

[CaliEagle]

This gives teams even more of a way to discriminate, IMO.  Just interview a minority candidate and say you met the rule and people leave you alone. They would be better off tossing the rule and let the media be a watchdog.  The NFL should examine organizations over a course of time to see who isn't offering interviews to minorities and deal directly with those organizations to decide if they should face sanctions.  There are also other factors. Who are the qualified candidates?  How much experience do they have as a coordinator or position coach?   How many jobs are open in a particular season?  Etc...

[HaroldTheSecond]

And what makes this even worse is that neither Bill Cowher nor Jon Gruden nor Brian Billick got hired - so no one can use the "we wanted a proven winner who would sell tickets" excuse.

[Gmen4ever]

The entire concept of having such a rule is embarrassing enough without the NFL drawing even more attention to it by crying about it's failure.

[lb7]

michaels maniacs, on 18 January 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

hire  the best coach for the job period

stupid rule

if im an owner I should be able to hire who I want regardless of race

If the % of black coaches reflected the % of black players, you might have a point but it is not even close.

[gibsonplyer]

The problem is there aren't enough good minority coaches in the lower ranks right now.  I couldn't come up with hardly any OCs or DCs worth interviewing.  Maybe they should have a program to get formmer players opportunities or training to get into coaching like they provide to get tv jobs.

[LacesOut]

Awful 'rule'.

The best candidates, that the NFL Owner sees fit to interview, should get interviews.

That's it.  There should be nothing else to it.

[Sack that QB]

I think it is sad that in 2013, when someone sits back and looks at all the coaches hired, someone actually looks at it and says "I can't believe all the guys hired are white!" They are looked at as racial entities instead of just people.

We should be beyond that in this day and age. Be happy that bright football minds found work, and forget about what damn race they are. It's ridiculous.

[Jason1978]

Owners hire the best guys they feel fit for the job. Chris Rock tweeted how unfair it was to have Andy Reid with 4 wins get a coaching job right away and Lovie with 10 wins jobless. I like Chris Rock but um look at the resumes. I think Lovie will be a HC again and Chicago should've never fired him to begin with but he's nowhere near the level of Andy Reid. Race has zero to do with it. I do think it's a shame we don't have more black head coaches but it's also sad when someone cries racism (like Dungy pretty much has). So a sport dominated by black players is racist? I guess the NHL is racist for not having more black players and no black coaches? Look at the lack of black players in baseball. There are many great black coaches in the NFL and college level but it comes down to who fits the best for the job not race. I think Ray Horton deserved a HC job. He was one of the guys I wanted to replace Andy.

Also interesting and ironic to point this out but we have six minority coaches in the NFL this year and TWO made the playoffs. Same number as last year. Black coaches really haven't been hugely successful in the NFL. It's sorta now I guess similar to the black QB. They were seem more as a novelty at one point and not a QB who could lead a successful team. RGIII and Cam Newton are two of the most popular quaterbacks. Colin Kapernick is part black. Of course sadly the black QB, especially running QB has tried to change the position but nobody since Doug Williams has won a Super Bowl. Tony Dungy is the only black coach to win a Super Bowl.

[lb7]

Sack that QB, on 19 January 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

I think it is sad that in 2013, when someone sits back and looks at all the coaches hired, someone actually looks at it and says "I can't believe all the guys hired are white!" They are looked at as racial entities instead of just people.

We should be beyond that in this day and age. Be happy that bright football minds found work, and forget about what damn race they are. It's ridiculous.

You are forgetting that all people don't think like you. I was at a wedding in Sept. and the owner of a small pharmaceutical compounding company in NJ was spouting off about getting rid of blacks and latino's and getting this country back to it's "white origins". I had a field day Fing with that guy but don't think for one second that a bunch of 60+ old white guys might have a problem with race, in fact and most unfortunately, you could probably conclude a good portion of them do.

[EagleJoe8]

Jason1978, on 20 January 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Owners hire the best guys they feel fit for the job. Chris Rock tweeted how unfair it was to have Andy Reid with 4 wins get a coaching job right away and Lovie with 10 wins jobless. I like Chris Rock but um look at the resumes. I think Lovie will be a HC again and Chicago should've never fired him to begin with but he's nowhere near the level of Andy Reid. Race has zero to do with it. I do think it's a shame we don't have more black head coaches but it's also sad when someone cries racism (like Dungy pretty much has). So a sport dominated by black players is racist? I guess the NHL is racist for not having more black players and no black coaches? Look at the lack of black players in baseball. There are many great black coaches in the NFL and college level but it comes down to who fits the best for the job not race. I think Ray Horton deserved a HC job. He was one of the guys I wanted to replace Andy.

Also interesting and ironic to point this out but we have six minority coaches in the NFL this year and TWO made the playoffs. Same number as last year. Black coaches really haven't been hugely successful in the NFL. It's sorta now I guess similar to the black QB. They were seem more as a novelty at one point and not a QB who could lead a successful team. RGIII and Cam Newton are two of the most popular quaterbacks. Colin Kapernick is part black. Of course sadly the black QB, especially running QB has tried to change the position but nobody since Doug Williams has won a Super Bowl. Tony Dungy is the only black coach to win a Super Bowl.

And Mike Tomlin.

[metalhead0043]

DIdn't Lovie Smith choose not to take a head coaching gig? He's taking a year off, last I read.

[RUEagle]

Surprised the head coach from Louisville, who is black, didn't get some looks.  He's done a phenomenal job with that team.  He'll if Marrone and some CFL coach can get it, don't see why he can't.

[GA4M]

[Whiskey]

lb7, on 19 January 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

If the % of black coaches reflected the % of black players, you might have a point but it is not even close.

I think the ratio of players to coaches reflects more on playing ability than race. The guys who really focus on coaching are usually not the star players from thier football team at any level. The guys who focus more on the playing of the game are typicaly amazing athletes and when thier career is over they move on to different fields. Basically, white guys suck at football so they focus on coaching at a much earlier age


Seriously though, I firmly believe that all coaching at all levels need to strive for diversity, but the path to diversity isn't through the Rooney Rule. I like where Rooney's heart was but the method itself doesn't really promote diversity IMO. If the NFL really wants to promote diversity, it needs to set up robust coaching programs, at all levels, that help guys who want to be coaches get the training they need to be successful.

Perhaps even a coaching school set up like a technical college where people can take the basic college courses & get a degree but the primary focus is sports coaching. Better yet a college that focuses on all aspects of sports, from personal trainers, physical therapists & coaching to the various administrative positions & sports related medical research & technology. A true place of higher learning for people who want to work in the sports industry. With all the professional sports leagues supporting and partially funding such a school, we would see true diversity down the road. Eventually they could probably field sports teams and compete for NCAA titles.

[lb7]

Whiskey, on 20 January 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

I think the ratio of players to coaches reflects more on playing ability than race. The guys who really focus on coaching are usually not the star players from thier football team at any level. The guys who focus more on the playing of the game are typicaly amazing athletes and when thier career is over they move on to different fields. Basically, white guys suck at football so they focus on coaching at a much earlier age


Seriously though, I firmly believe that all coaching at all levels need to strive for diversity, but the path to diversity isn't through the Rooney Rule. I like where Rooney's heart was but the method itself doesn't really promote diversity IMO. If the NFL really wants to promote diversity, it needs to set up robust coaching programs, at all levels, that help guys who want to be coaches get the training they need to be successful.

Perhaps even a coaching school set up like a technical college where people can take the basic college courses & get a degree but the primary focus is sports coaching. Better yet a college that focuses on all aspects of sports, from personal trainers, physical therapists & coaching to the various administrative positions & sports related medical research & technology. A true place of higher learning for people who want to work in the sports industry. With all the professional sports leagues supporting and partially funding such a school, we would see true diversity down the road. Eventually they could probably field sports teams and compete for NCAA titles.

[PHeagles36]

Gmen4ever, on 19 January 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

The entire concept of having such a rule is embarrassing enough without the NFL drawing even more attention to it by crying about it's failure.

we rarely agree but on this one, we do.

Especially in this individual circumstance. There's a handfull of positions, if I'm forgetting any they can correct me: CHI, Arizona, PHI, CLE, JAX, SD, BUF.

There was exactly ONE black candidate with NFL HC experience out there for hire. That guy was already fired from one of the positions open and had missed the playoffs 6 out of 9 of his seasons. Chicago had the guy for 9 years, obviously not racism in play here. Arizona just had Denny Green as a head coach a few years ago, obviously not racist there. So you're left with at most 5 jobs where they either didn't hire a black coach because A) they're racist or B) this years hot candidates were simply not black. In past years there have been black candidates (Frazier, Morris).

If you really want a more lop sided issue, its the amount of white PLAYERS who get passed over because they are automatically deemed less athletic than their black counterparts. But because of white guilt its taboo to even mention that fact.

I say that to say I support the idea behind the Rooney rule, but it doesn't even make sense. No racist owner is going to bring in a black coach because its a mandate and suddenly become unracist in the course of the interview. If he wasn't going to hire a person based on the merit of their skin color, a forced sit down is not going to chance that, and its absurd to think the Rooney rule has really been the driving force behind the emergence of black coaches in the NFL more than just simply times changing and people opening their minds.

[Innocence096]

this is a non story. teams arent going to hire a black head coach just because the NFL doesnt have enough. They do what is best for them and don't look at the race numbers just so they can be averaged.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

Dumb rule dumb liberal logic.  Hire the best people for the job, not some fraud to meet a quota.

[Sack that QB]

lb7, on 20 January 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

You are forgetting that all people don't think like you. I was at a wedding in Sept. and the owner of a small pharmaceutical compounding company in NJ was spouting off about getting rid of blacks and latino's and getting this country back to it's "white origins". I had a field day Fing with that guy but don't think for one second that a bunch of 60+ old white guys might have a problem with race, in fact and most unfortunately, you could probably conclude a good portion of them do.

In that situation, you had proof the guy had issues with other races. There is none such in this case with the NFL.

[lb7]

DawkinsOwnage03, on 20 January 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Dumb rule dumb liberal logic.  Hire the best people for the job, not some fraud to meet a quota.

You are forgetting that there are many racists out there. Obama's election didn't perge all the idiots you know.

[lb7]

Sack that QB, on 20 January 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

In that situation, you had proof the guy had issues with other races. There is none such in this case with the NFL.

True, but I don't think racist are going to flat out say it, do you? The Rooney rule, like Brown vs. Board of Education starts to even the playing field. Equality always starts with people having to follow a rule or a law, it is human nature. I guarantee you that more than a few of those 60+ year old white guys have some strong feelings about black people and what place they are suppose to have in society.

[Wegners]

Why isn't the NFL upset there aren't any Asian head coaches?

[Sack that QB]

lb7, on 20 January 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

True, but I don't think racist are going to flat out say it, do you? The Rooney rule, like Brown vs. Board of Education starts to even the playing field. Equality always starts with people having to follow a rule or a law, it is human nature. I guarantee you that more than a few of those 60+ year old white guys have some strong feelings about black people and what place they are suppose to have in society.

You don't just assume someone is racist though. That's ignorant. You give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.