20 replies to this topic

[Thochrun]

A lot of sources are talkjng about the possibility of Vick renegotiating his contract for the opportunity to play in Kelly's system. This past season was a train wreck in all facets of the game and to say Vick isn't the best option for the 2013 season is a tough thing to say for a few reasons:

1. Mike Vick played behind the worst O-Line in the league. I'm not talking just the absence of Jason Peters. I'm talking back ups in almost every o line position. Experts said college teams had better O lines than the eagles. Good job Reid. In order for Vick to be successful he needs protection, one of the best o lines in the league.

2. Receivers this year were a joke. Jackson in my opinion is one of the easiest weapons to put a damper on. He was nowhere to be found in many of the games. He also is missing his swag, he seems Afraid of the ball. Maclin had a few decent games but nothing to write home about, he also seems afraid to try to gain yards after the catch. Brent Celek accounted for quite a few interceptions this year that fell on Vick. He had terrible hands this year, absolutely horrendous. Jason Avant seemed to be the only sure thing on offense this year.

3. Absence of running game. Both the horrible O line and predictable play calling by Morningwheg resulted in a lot more pressure on Vick. Teams prepared well for the Eagles, getting pressure on Vick was the game plan and it was easy with the terrible O line.

Maybe Vick is washed up and his track record for fumbles, interceptions and inability to read the field is a reason to let him go but I think with a solid O-line Vick would have more time to read the field. If he had a more balanced play calling coordinator thy would take pressure off Vicks passing game. And With physical, big receivers (Julio jones, Calvin Johnson) I think he has a good arm to connect with them. And now Chip Kelly, a guy who is a very innovative football mind especially on the offensive side of the ball maybe he could help Mike Vick play to his strengths and put a damper on his weakness's. This team was absolutely horrendous this year both sides of the ball. Many issues need to be addressed but I think Kelly can get all the missing pieces together to get the offense back on track.

[bleedgreen2323]

jackson was our leading reciever and even when he doesnt get the ball he opens up the field with his speed you always have to have a saftey over the top or he will burn the defense everytime

[Thochrun]

He is the best receiver on the team but that isn't saying much. He's not a redZone threat and the past two years redZone efficiency has been an issue. The best receivers in the league aren't speedy small guys, they are big physical, ball hungry receivers that create plays with their bodies and speed. Julio Jones, Roddie White, Crabtree, Greene. Calvin Johnson. You can double team Calvin Johnson and he is still a play maker. Look at our RedZone stats, they are horrendous due to lack of big receiver

[jonnyeagles12]

I'd be a threat if I was throwing the ball to Johnson and Jones. QB's have to deal with bad receivers, ours are no where near the least. Foles had Maclin playing at a high level and didn't even have Jackson and he was more impressive. It doesn't excuse the mistakes and turnovers.

[bleedgreen2323]

Thochrun, on 22 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

He is the best receiver on the team but that isn't saying much. He's not a redZone threat and the past two years redZone efficiency has been an issue. The best receivers in the league aren't speedy small guys, they are big physical, ball hungry receivers that create plays with their bodies and speed. Julio Jones, Roddie White, Crabtree, Greene. Calvin Johnson. You can double team Calvin Johnson and he is still a play maker. Look at our RedZone stats, they are horrendous due to lack of big receiver

soo? jackson is a good piece to have defenses have to account for him , we need a big physical wr and tight end  to compliment him

[zenclaybourne]

No it really is not tough to say that Vick isn't our best option next season. The reason for this is that Foles outperformed Vick with less surrounding talent. It would be tough to say the Vick's career is over, but there is no question in my mind that I never want to see him start for the Eagles again.

[baldbird]

No Vick never was anything more then avg even with a good o-line why waste another year on him? We seen him play for 11 years and was never a winner. I would rather see what Foles can do with a good o-line and starters in place. If anything Foles might prove he can be the starter for years to come if not atleast we tryed and did not throw it away on Vick who we already know what he is all about.

Even if Kelly say's he don't want Foles then bring someone else thats young and might have a chance in being the starter long term Why waste a year on Vick That just is wasting everyones time.

[CT Eagle]

Vick's injury history and turnover issues are obvious. It may be pointless to teach a 33 year old a new system when the team is rebuilding. There are also salary cap considerations.

I am waiting for HB to chime in !

[downundermike]

Not to tough really....he sucks

[VaBeach_Eagle]

Thochrun, on 22 January 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

A lot of sources are talkjng about the possibility of Vick renegotiating his contract for the opportunity to play in Kelly's system. This past season was a train wreck in all facets of the game and to say Vick isn't the best option for the 2013 season is a tough thing to say for a few reasons:

2011 and 2012:

23 Games 10-13 457/774 59.0% 5,665 Yards 30 TDs 24 INTs 21 Fumbles 14 lost 81.8 Passer Rating

38 turnovers in 23 games. 23 games played out of 32. Slightly above to slightly below average completion percentage, slightly above to slightly below average yargage and slightly above to slightly below average passer rating.

Slightly above to slightly below average, lots of turnovers and multiple games missed during the season. This is Michael Vick. Is this what you want from our QB position?

Maybe he does better in Kelly's system, maybe not. He's never really shown an ability to learn new systems very well or very quickly. Is he worth $16 Million for 2013?

[Highboy]

CT Eagle, on 22 January 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Vick's injury history and turnover issues are obvious. It may be pointless to teach a 33 year old a new system when the team is rebuilding. There are also salary cap considerations.

I am waiting for HB to chime in !

lol. Nothing much to add but what you posted.

[patpikunas]

VaBeach_Eagle, on 22 January 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Maybe he does better in Kelly's system, maybe not. He's never really shown an ability to learn new systems very well or very quickly.

It would be interesting to see Vick in this offense but its an offense that requires a lot of reads, a lot of studying and a lot of practice.

As VA Beach points out astutely, Vick does not exactly fit the description of what a QB in this offense requires.

Its a much tougher offense to run than it looks.

[Erie]

Even in his positive season with us he struggled toward the end of the year. He doesn't seem to read defenses well, no matter who is blocking for him. I love Vick, love his redemption story, want good things for him. I don't see him being anything more than a place holder until be acquire and develop the next guy, and that assuming he'd take a big pay cut to stay here.

[bungalo71]

Thochrun, on 22 January 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

A lot of sources are talkjng about the possibility of Vick renegotiating his contract for the opportunity to play in Kelly's system. This past season was a train wreck in all facets of the game and to say Vick isn't the best option for the 2013 season is a tough thing to say for a few reasons:

1. Mike Vick played behind the worst O-Line in the league. I'm not talking just the absence of Jason Peters. I'm talking back ups in almost every o line position. Experts said college teams had better O lines than the eagles. Good job Reid. In order for Vick to be successful he needs protection, one of the best o lines in the league.

2. Receivers this year were a joke. Jackson in my opinion is one of the easiest weapons to put a damper on. He was nowhere to be found in many of the games. He also is missing his swag, he seems Afraid of the ball. Maclin had a few decent games but nothing to write home about, he also seems afraid to try to gain yards after the catch. Brent Celek accounted for quite a few interceptions this year that fell on Vick. He had terrible hands this year, absolutely horrendous. Jason Avant seemed to be the only sure thing on offense this year.

3. Absence of running game. Both the horrible O line and predictable play calling by Morningwheg resulted in a lot more pressure on Vick. Teams prepared well for the Eagles, getting pressure on Vick was the game plan and it was easy with the terrible O line.

Maybe Vick is washed up and his track record for fumbles, interceptions and inability to read the field is a reason to let him go but I think with a solid O-line Vick would have more time to read the field. If he had a more balanced play calling coordinator thy would take pressure off Vicks passing game. And With physical, big receivers (Julio jones, Calvin Johnson) I think he has a good arm to connect with them. And now Chip Kelly, a guy who is a very innovative football mind especially on the offensive side of the ball maybe he could help Mike Vick play to his strengths and put a damper on his weakness's. This team was absolutely horrendous this year both sides of the ball. Many issues need to be addressed but I think Kelly can get all the missing pieces together to get the offense back on track.

Remember when people used the "no receivers and no running game" excuse for McNabb as well?

[Operator 7]

Highboy, on 22 January 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

lol. Nothing much to add but what you posted.

What?  That's it?!!!  

[SBorBust]

OKAY...

- The running game ranked 13th in the league in yards.  The league contains 32 teams.  Unfortunately, this is enough to qualify as a strength for the year.
- The receivers got open just fine when the other guy took over the starting QB role.  This was without the "best receiver."
- The offensive line was abysmal, but they were thought to have "played better with Foles under center."  This is probably because he got rid of the football and has the ability to move in the pocket AWAY FROM PRESSURE instead of running directly into it.
- Vick was chased down by defensive ends and linebackers last season.
- Vick cannot be trusted to learn yet another system.

Vick will be released in a matter of weeks. CAN'T WAIT!

[DaveSpadaro]

It's an extremely important decision to make and it is one that has to be made with great research and analysis by the head coach. You have to take into consideration Vick's entire career and, of course, his performance these last couple of seasons. How does he project into what Chip Kelly wants to do offensively? That's the decision. How does he project ... What does Chip want from his quarterback. It isn't about running around and making plays out of breakdowns, it's about executing the offensive scheme. I don't have the answer. That comes from Chip Kelly. I think Michael has not played well the last couple of years. Way too many turnovers. Way too many points left on the field. His fault? Some of it, yeah. Some of it is on the o line, some of it is the scheme. But no way anybody can say the offense, and the QB position, performed consistently well the last two seasons.

[Runtherock]

Vick has had his shot, here, and as an NFL quarterback. At some point you have to realize this is what he is and move on, and I say that believing Reid and the Wood mismanaged him.

[PoconoDon]

For my part as a fan, Mike Vick is at the top of a long list of tradeable/releasable veterans. I doubt anyone will actually trade for him or very many of the others, but this new era of Eagles football does require one thing in my opinion....gutting almost everything Reid put in place in favor of rebuilding the team according to the theme of the current head coach.

Personally, I hope the Eagles target 2014 and 2015 draft picks for the trades...if it were up to me, there are roughly 10 starters I'd be looking to move immediately. The rest will fall to attrition as better young talent comes in.  I have NO problem with a couple 2-14 seasons during the rebuilding process....in fact, I view it as necessary to accomplishing the the primary goal of building a championship team. I know people don't like that approach and believe this team is always just a hair off...I just disagree and I look to the history of dynastic franchises for the solution....they all did one thing extremely well.

They dominated multiple drafts and had extra early picks.

That is the proven strategy...maybe it can happen faster nowadays than it used to, but sitting firmly as one of the worst teams for a couple seasons while your're rebuilding is still a necessary step. Now is the time for that....everything is in place to insulate the Kelly regime. New HC coming from college, New system to install, New fully empowered GM, New coaching staff, Huge ? at QB position, a bunch of veteran players that can be traded, and on and on and on.....

If the Eagles play this right, targeting 4-5 seasons from now as the time of exponential improvement.....then in my opinion, Lurie will finally be in a position to achieve his stated goal of multiple championships.

If they play it to win now, with what they have.....he won't.

[PhillyGreenMachine]

Did you guys not see those overhead shots of the Eagles where Vick got no pass rush and still was unable to find completely wide open targets.

[mjkvol]

PoconoDon, on 24 January 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

For my part as a fan, Mike Vick is at the top of a long list of tradeable/releasable veterans. I doubt anyone will actually trade for him or very many of the others, but this new era of Eagles football does require one thing in my opinion....gutting almost everything Reid put in place in favor of rebuilding the team according to the theme of the current head coach.

Personally, I hope the Eagles target 2014 and 2015 draft picks for the trades...if it were up to me, there are roughly 10 starters I'd be looking to move immediately. The rest will fall to attrition as better young talent comes in. I have NO problem with a couple 2-14 seasons during the rebuilding process....in fact, I view it as necessary to accomplishing the the primary goal of building a championship team. I know people don't like that approach and believe this team is always just a hair off...I just disagree and I look to the history of dynastic franchises for the solution....they all did one thing extremely well.

They dominated multiple drafts and had extra early picks.

That is the proven strategy...maybe it can happen faster nowadays than it used to, but sitting firmly as one of the worst teams for a couple seasons while your're rebuilding is still a necessary step. Now is the time for that....everything is in place to insulate the Kelly regime. New HC coming from college, New system to install, New fully empowered GM, New coaching staff, Huge ? at QB position, a bunch of veteran players that can be traded, and on and on and on.....

If the Eagles play this right, targeting 4-5 seasons from now as the time of exponential improvement.....then in my opinion, Lurie will finally be in a position to achieve his stated goal of multiple championships.

If they play it to win now, with what they have.....he won't.

I completely agree, Pocono, but unfortunately it is 2013, not 1983, and this is the age of billion dollar franchises and immediate gratification, where 'rebuilding' is a four-letter word.     And given the fact that greatness hasn't been necessary to win in this league since those Cowboys teams in the '90s, a complete rebuilding just isn't the way organizations go any more.  

Targeting 4-5 years from no just isn't a realistic proposition, and a couple of 2-14's would do no more than probably bring the Chip Kelly experiment to a 'failed' conclusion.      But sadly, attempting to 'win now' by simply adding to a bad bunch will do not much more than get the same result.

We can only hope they are smart enough to take the proper path, and this fan base is smart enough to be patient.       Amazing thing that the relative mediocrity and zero rings of the last decade plus when taken as a whole could have this fan base at a point where they are seen as 'spoiled' from 'success'.