51 replies to this topic

[VaBeach_Eagle]

I figured the other thread would end up being moved into the locked forum, but I believe it's important to keep the discussion going in order to get it fixed. As I've said, I believe that restricting the board to only registered members and eliminating the ability of spiders to see the baord will go a long way toward helping. Being on a shared server doesn't really help matters much either, especially being on a shared server with other major NFL teams boards.

A few of the replies from that thread:

Quote

DaveSpadaro, on 22 January 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

I don't know where it is slow. Is it in the ridiculous thread in Talk About The Eagles? Cause it's not slow in this forum. Maybe you can narrow it down a bit. I'm on the boards 2-3 times a day and I don't experience what you experience. The more specific you can be the more helpful it is to me.

There may be a misconception on the problems which might also explain why that big Blog thread was done away with (or whatever happened with it that made some mad). Specific threads, no matter what size that are don't get "slow", the entire board does.

So if a thread in TATE has 450,000 responses and causes the database to be slow, it's slow for the entire EMB. Not just that thread.

I understand that you aren't seeing the slowness on the few times you're here and that's frustrating because there most definitely is a problem and I really wish you would experience it.

Here's a screen shot from last month showing almost 13,000 guests. That much traffic is a problem. That may as well be a "Denial of Service Attack" on the board, because that's what it does. It denies service.



Here's an example from November, during a game. This is what it's like when things are doing what we're talking about.



Again, I understand that you're not seeing these problems in the couple of times per day that you're on the board but you have to trust us that these problems are here. I'm retired form the military and am now a full time college student finishing a second IT degree alont with working on an MBA, so I don't have a job and am on the EMB all the time and at all hours of the day/night when I'm not in class or working on something for class... and actually, I'm even sometimes on the EMB while I'm actually in class lol.

Trust us on this one Dave, the slightest breeze and the EMB becomes very slow and soon thereafter we get "Over Capacity" errors.

"Over Capacity" errors when there's fewer than 200 registered members on the board, mind you. That's just insane.

In it we've figured out that the EMB is on a shared server with Invision with at least 3 or 4 other NFL team message boards. All sharing the same server resources and all sharing the same bandwidth.

Quote

NorCalEagle, on 22 January 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

both the falcons board & the emb share the ip address 50.28.75.27...

so, yes, they are both hosted by invision...& the apparently share the same server...

I had thought about pinging the EMB earlier but forgot to do it. Hdn't thought to ping the Falcons board though.

NorCalEagle, on 22 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

other forums sharing that ip address:

ravens
dolphins
cowboys

[Footballman175]

Needs to be addressed.

[NOTW]

Every time they move the thread to Dave's Responses, a few new threads get created.

We will not be quiet about this issue!  

[evilwaldo]

Still a problem.

[DaveSpadaro]

I have forwarded this response to Invision. I promise to get back to you when I speak to them at length. Thanks for the hard work and caring ...

[Footballman175]

DaveSpadaro, on 23 January 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

I have forwarded this response to Invision. I promise to get back to you when I speak to them at length. Thanks for the hard work and caring ...

Thankyou!

[NOTW]

Get VA on a conference call with you too. Then report specifics of invisions response. :)

[VaBeach_Eagle]

I really think that closing the board off to only registered members should help a lot. Every time there's been issues while I've been on and I've been able to get the main page to load, I've looked at the online list and there's always an overload of "guests" with at most 200 to 300 registered members logged on.

Being on a Shared Server may or may not be a problem, depending on what's happening on all of the other sites but if we're on a server with all of the other NFL teams that Invision services and if all of the other NFL teams have the same kind of traffic on game day that the EMB has, that CAN'T help matters.

Game days are horrible here, for the most part. Near the end of the season it wasn't as bad because the Eagles were so bad, but give us a little more success on the field and the board will be unreachable... or "over capacity".

If something isn't done by free agency and then draft day, I would fully expect to have issues accessing the board.

[Eaglfan4eva]

Only instances I have issues with the board is when the news of the day causes ppl to flock here. Otherwise it's smooth.

[DaveSpadaro]

Here is a response from Invision ... please read and let's continue the dialogue ...

"Yes all the teams share the same IP but they surely are not all on the same server. That IP they're seeing is our load balancer that distributes load across many networked servers. Also there's no attack you really do have that many people.

At this point I would say we take a step back and recognize that something is odd about your setup. None of our other NFL teams have issues so let's eliminate some differences:


- auto lock topics once they reach a ridiculous number of replies

- have my network guys review your setup in detail to see what might be different

- have one of my staff manually monitor the site at your next big event

I think that's a good first step. I know we have been talking about this for a while. So I'm thinking a systematic review is in order. Particularly a low level network review.

[evilwaldo]

Auto locking large threads is a good first step as it taxes the server every time it is pulled up by a visitor.  That should make a difference.

Same goes for threads with lots of pictures and gifs.  They can tax servers as well.

Last night I was having the same issues at 11:30 PM but oddly enough it does not happen on my tablet, only my laptop.  Is there a reason for this?  No, I am not using the mobile browser.

[Hank_TheBody_Fraley]

DaveSpadaro, on 24 January 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Here is a response from Invision ... please read and let's continue the dialogue ...

"Yes all the teams share the same IP but they surely are not all on the same server. That IP they're seeing is our load balancer that distributes load across many networked servers. Also there's no attack you really do have that many people.

At this point I would say we take a step back and recognize that something is odd about your setup. None of our other NFL teams have issues so let's eliminate some differences:


- auto lock topics once they reach a ridiculous number of replies

- have my network guys review your setup in detail to see what might be different

- have one of my staff manually monitor the site at your next big event

I think that's a good first step. I know we have been talking about this for a while. So I'm thinking a systematic review is in order. Particularly a low level network review.

Let's start with the name Edwin and his involvement.

[frenchladyfan]

DaveSpadaro, on 24 January 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Here is a response from Invision ... please read and let's continue the dialogue ...

"Yes all the teams share the same IP but they surely are not all on the same server. That IP they're seeing is our load balancer that distributes load across many networked servers. Also there's no attack you really do have that many people.

At this point I would say we take a step back and recognize that something is odd about your setup. None of our other NFL teams have issues so let's eliminate some differences:


- auto lock topics once they reach a ridiculous number of replies

- have my network guys review your setup in detail to see what might be different

- have one of my staff manually monitor the site at your next big event

I think that's a good first step. I know we have been talking about this for a while. So I'm thinking a systematic review is in order. Particularly a low level network review.

wow. wow. wow.

you'd think, you'd think, with all the times dave and invision have been talking, you'd think such verifications would have already taken place.

these guys are jerks.

and yes, there are more issues on this board, because it's the best of the nfl, period. have you ever seen what the other fora look like ? it's like boards for toddlers ! besides, managing fora with a great load of members should be right up invision's alley. oh how i would leave them hanging, if it were me, and switch to other providers.

[evilwaldo]

frenchladyfan, on 24 January 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

wow. wow. wow.

you'd think, you'd think, with all the times dave and invision have been talking, you'd think such verifications would have already taken place.

these guys are jerks.

and yes, there are more issues on this board, because it's the best of the nfl, period. have you ever seen what the other fora look like ? it's like boards for toddlers ! besides, managing fora with a great load of members should be right up invision's alley. oh how i would leave them hanging, if it were me, and switch to other providers.

We tried that.  Oh boy did that go over well.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

DaveSpadaro, on 24 January 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Here is a response from Invision ... please read and let's continue the dialogue ...

"Yes all the teams share the same IP but they surely are not all on the same server. That IP they're seeing is our load balancer that distributes load across many networked servers. Also there's no attack you really do have that many people.

At this point I would say we take a step back and recognize that something is odd about your setup. None of our other NFL teams have issues so let's eliminate some differences:


- auto lock topics once they reach a ridiculous number of replies

- have my network guys review your setup in detail to see what might be different

- have one of my staff manually monitor the site at your next big event

I think that's a good first step. I know we have been talking about this for a while. So I'm thinking a systematic review is in order. Particularly a low level network review.

Dave, we get a lot of traffic here at the EMB, but 3,500 guests or 13,000 guests is not us "having that many people". That's not normal for us and every time we have that many guests, the board is in crash mode.

I know it's not a Denial of Service attack, I was just using that as an example of what it's like.

Please, let's try locking out guests and make them log in as registered members and prevent spiders from indexing. Try that and let's see how the board reacts.

If we wait for the next "big event" for them to "monitor" us, we'll be waiting until at least April and even then that might not be big enough to cause issues. So we might end up waiting until the first pre-season game for them to "monitor" us.

Also, it's not always just "big events" that cause problems. It happens at random times and every time it's happened, we've had thousands of "guests" on the board.

We didn't have this problem when the board was restricted to members only. If we have 13,000 guests that want to read the board then they can join and add themselves to the member list. I'll almost guarantee you though that those 13,000 "guests" aren't people though.

[NOTW]

We've been complaining about this for a year, and they are only just NOW realizing this site is setup differently from the other sites, and are just now going to "have their guys" take a look?

They should get someone to monitor regularly for a week.  Logon different time periods throughout the day and actively try and post like a user.  If users are having this problems now during the slow time, imagine when Kelly announces his full staff, or the first day of free agency, then the draft.


I also suggest, as I have many times before, that newly registered users cannot start new threads until after a certain period of time.   They can register, login and post replies but not start new threads.  Only after they hit a milestone, such as 5 days or 100 posts.  Something.  That can help prevent all the repeat threads that get started when news breaks, or trolls that just want to start an argument.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

I'm reposting this from the "Falcons" thread, in case you (Dave) don't look at that one again:

DaveSpadaro, on 24 January 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

We have had as many as 8,000 to 10,000 on the board at a time.

I'd like to see the IP addresses to verify that those 8,000 to 10,000 are people and not spiders. Dave, log into the ACP and under the "System" tab click on "Logs" (assuming the EMB's version of Invision is the same as what I'm used to). Under "Logs" click on "Spider Logs".

How many "Logged Hits" are there? I have access to a small message boards ACP and it has fewer than 4,000 members. Google has indexed that site nearly 1.3 Million times in the last year. Yahoo, nearly 500,000 times.  

Look at the "Online Users" list, open it so you can see the IP addresses. How many 66.249.xxx.xxx hits do you see? I know that Google has the 66.249.000.000 range of IP addresses.

I pay attention to technical things and web stats, I'm just geeky like that, and when the Eagles signed Vick to a contract in 2009, we had around 5,000 people log onto the EMB. It was nearly the same when the Eagles signed Terrell Ownes.

So explain why, on December 17th, 2012, the EMB had more than 13,000 members and guests online. Look on the main page of the EMB, down at the bottom of the page. It tells us that the most ever online was on that day. 13,123 people online. Think back to December 17th.



What happened on December 17th, 2012 that would cause more people to be on the EMB than were here (combined) when the Eagles signed Owens in 2004 and Vick in 2009?

December 17th was a Monday... maybe it was a MNF game? Well, the Titans and Jets played that Monday Night. The Titans won.

I know... maybe that was the day we fired Washburn... that would be moderately big news. No, that was December 3rd.

So why would we have 13,123 people on the EMB on a Monday when the Eagles aren't playing, there is no draft, no playoff run to discuss, no big free agent or trade going down. No big name coach being hired or fired. No Star in the middle of a Dallas field being spat upon causing a media upraor... why then?

SPIDERS... they're EVERYWHERE! Run for the hills... or maybe just restrict the board to registered members only. There's no logical reason, that I can think of, to keep the EMB open to non-members and spiders.

If I'm incorrect and that's not the problem, then no harm is done. But if I'm correct and it is the spiders/guests, all that's happening is wasting a lot time and if Invision is charging you for "services" in terms of "troubleshooting" then money is being wasted too.

They never did answer whether or not we're on a shared, dedicated or virtual server though... I'm still curious about that.

[NOTW]

Seriously, just hire VA already.

[Hank_TheBody_Fraley]

Quick DAVE!!! It's doing it right now!!!

[VaBeach_Eagle]

In reference to the 13,000+ people online on December 17th, 2012, I went back to my original posting of that image to see what time it was on that day. Here's the original posting... note the time. It wasn't even during the MNF game for that to be an excuse or reason and also look at the list just 7 or 8 minutes later...

VaBeach_Eagle, on 17 December 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

I just got the "Over capacity" error a little while ago, I looked at how many people were online and noticed this:



About 7 or 8 minutes later it had dropped down to this:



Very odd that there were THAT many guests on the board and then vanashed in a matter of minutes. My guess is, it's either spiders or an attack, like a ddos.

Are you telling me that there was something legitimately big going on that at that time that caused more than 13,076 people to log on and visit the EMB and then within a few minutes, drop from 13,076 down to 672?

Dave, that doesn't make any sense. 12,404 people (the difference between 13,076 and 672) don't just decide to go to the EMB all at the same time for no reason, then all decide to go away all at the same time... for no reason.

Those 12,404 "guests" most likely aren't people.

[KOJO]

Need this.

[dmor]

I think I could count on one hand the number of times I received an over-capacity message on these boards.  Invariably, it was during a big news day, after a big game, or something like that.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

dmor, on 24 January 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

I think I could count on one hand the number of times I received an over-capacity message on these boards.  Invariably, it was during a big news day, after a big game, or something like that.

What was big on December 17th at 3:00 in the afternoon though?

[dmor]

VaBeach_Eagle, on 24 January 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

What was big on December 17th at 3:00 in the afternoon though?

Okay, maybe I wasn't on then.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

dmor, on 24 January 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Okay, maybe I wasn't on then.

I've never had "Over Capacity" errors on any other site on the internet dating back as far as the mid 90's. I can completely understand that it would happen on big news days. But it happens here on random days with no news.

[frenchladyfan]

dmor, on 24 January 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

I think I could count on one hand the number of times I received an over-capacity message on these boards.  Invariably, it was during a big news day, after a big game, or something like that.

not really. it happens quite randomly, even when there is no 'big' event. that's what invision has, amont other things, to acknowledge. the malfunctions are not always correlated to a "ridiculous" (sic) number of posts in the threads, or to a significant nfl event.

[evilwaldo]

VaBeach_Eagle, on 24 January 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

I've never had "Over Capacity" errors on any other site on the internet dating back as far as the mid 90's. I can completely understand that it would happen on big news days. But it happens here on random days with no news.

That is the bizarre part.  It could be related to being on the same server as the Ravens (very possible) but still a problem.

[MIKESCR]

what are spiders  that people are  talking about

[NorCalEagle]

MIKESCR, on 25 January 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

what are spiders  that people are  talking about

the bots that search engines use to index web content...

[VaBeach_Eagle]

MIKESCR, on 25 January 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

what are spiders  that people are  talking about

I explained Spiders here:

http://boards.philad...0#entry17240412