16 replies to this topic

[CT Eagle]

You wrote that Cox can be an impact player as a 3-4 DE.  
While I think and hope you are right I was hoping you could provide additional info....is that your opinion ?  Have you talked to scouts or coaches on the subject ?

Was that considered before we drafted him ?   Any idea if teams were looking/scouting Cox as a 3-4 DE heading into last years draft ?  Has Cox had any experience at DE ?
Is that a natural position for him ?  
He isn't a JJ Watt type....more like a Justin Smith ?

thanks in advance

[Rodney_Zero]

IIRC Cox in the draft magazines was described as a Richard Seymor type of player because of their similar size and being able to play in both  the 4-3 and 3-4. Now that he had a very good rookie year with 5 sacks, does he want to be an unselfish player and take on 2 blockers  and do the dirty work?

[mjkvol]

Rodney_Zero, on 28 January 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

IIRC Cox in the draft magazines was described as a Richard Seymor type of player because of their similar size and being able to play in both  the 4-3 and 3-4. Now that he had a very good rookie year with 5 sacks, does he want to be an unselfish player and take on 2 blockers  and do the dirty work?

Seymour had a pretty good career doing that - I'd be thrilled if Cox became close to what Seymour was.

[Rodney_Zero]

mjkvol, on 28 January 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Seymour had a pretty good career doing that - I'd be thrilled if Cox became close to what Seymour was.

It all comes down to being" unselfish" in a 3-4 D, and putting him at RDE would be the spot for him, Jenkins or someone else at LDE. Seymor was a damn good DE and never got credit in NE too.

[mjkvol]

Rodney_Zero, on 28 January 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

It all comes down to being" unselfish" in a 3-4 D, and putting him at RDE would be the spot for him, Jenkins or someone else at LDE. Seymor was a damn good DE and never got credit in NE too.

Cox is being paid 1st round money - I personally don't care if he 'chooses' whether to be unselfish or not - I would expect him to do whatever the team needs him to do.     It's about time around here that the team came first.

[Rodney_Zero]

mjkvol, on 28 January 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Cox is being paid 1st round money - I personally don't care if he 'chooses' whether to be unselfish or not - I would expect him to do whatever the team needs him to do. It's about time around here that the team came first.

This is where Kelly and his DC will work or not workout

[mjkvol]

Rodney_Zero, on 28 January 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

This is where Kelly and his DC will work or not workout

Absolutely right, and it's going to be a major chore changing the mindset of this group of selfish, me-first ingrates that Reid gathered.

First thing should be to lose 3/4 of them.

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 28 January 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Absolutely right, and it's going to be a major chore changing the mindset of this group of selfish, me-first ingrates that Reid gathered.

First thing should be to lose 3/4 of them.

Well MJ, you said you are taking a leap of faith with Howie.  Howie said this today during his interview.  I realize you have to look at what he does and not what he says, but his opinion seems quite different than yours !

"I think the misconception is that when you bring a new coach, you have to overhaul your whole roster. For us, we do think we have a lot of pieces in place."
-Howie Roseman

[sacook817]

Cox is a good player.  He will not be selfish.  Not in this year.  Players will do what they are told or they will be gone.  Nuff said.  Too much went wrong and too much unaccountability.  He can be either.  JJ Watt good?  Asking a bit much.

[mjkvol]

CT Eagle, on 28 January 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

Well MJ, you said you are taking a leap of faith with Howie.  Howie said this today during his interview.  I realize you have to look at what he does and not what he says, but his opinion seems quite different than yours !

"I think the misconception is that when you bring a new coach, you have to overhaul your whole roster. For us, we do think we have a lot of pieces in place."
-Howie Roseman

My version of  "taking a leap of faith", a line which you seem determined to hang me with at every opportunity, is a bit different than being a true believer.    The change that's been needed here for five years finally happened, I have my team back, and I want to give the new regime every opportunity to right the ship.     Doesn't mean I'm going to mindlessly rubber stamp every decision or statement, which is true believer territory.

Roseman is saying exactly what he should be saying - fans expecting complete transparency from a GM or coach are complete idiots, especially going into the spring and approaching the draft. He should be pumping up the value of his 'pieces' as much as possible at this time.      What possible reason would there be to talk down what you have when every organization is looking at every roster in the league hoping to upgrade positions?      

It's why I consider interviews with coaches and GM's to be a waste of time - I'm interested in their actions and how those affect the franchise.      I really couldn't care less what they say publicly.

Let's see what Kelly decides he needs to do with the current roster.     I'm sure there are players here who will benefit from a plan and scheme that maximizes what they actually do for a change, and will upgrade their level play under the new system and staff.     The rest, which is probably a good chunk of the debris Reid assembled here over the last few years, will be weeded out.      I would expect that the roster will look significantly different by 2014 and 2015.

A good example is the DC search, and fans obsession over whether a 3-4 'fits' the current personnel.     Whether it does or not is completely irrelevant - put your plan in place, then do what is necessary personnel-wise to maximize the plan.

Let the FA period, draft, and training camp play out, and let's see what we're looking at in September.     In the meantime, I'll comment on what they actually do as opposed to what they say publicly.

[Rodney_Zero]

mjkvol, on 29 January 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

.

A good example is the DC search, and fans obsession over whether a 3-4 'fits' the current personnel. Whether it does or not is completely irrelevant - put your plan in place, then do what is necessary personnel-wise to maximize the plan.

.

I agree, but in TATE, there's people saying Cole would be an excellent OLB (wrong), we don't need a big NT(wrong), Matthews is an ideal ISLB (wrong), Curry would be too small @ OLB in 3-4 (wrong) etc... I like what works, but a switch to a 3-4 is gonna take some time and over hauling of the players on D, right now we have about 2 DL and 2 LB's that could make the switch, Graham and Curry , who knows?

[Highboy]

Nobody knows we're switching to a 3-4. This is all speculation on part of the fans and media based on the fact he had a 3-4 in Oregon. That means nothing. Also, fans here are doing nothing more than projecting who will/won't succeed in a 3-4 formation. That hasn't even worked out most of the time for NFL scouts let alone a bunch of EMB armchair coaches.

[Highboy]

10 out of the top 15 defenses in the NFL are a 4-3. Just saying....

[Rodney_Zero]

sacook817, on 28 January 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

Cox is a good player.  He will not be selfish.  Not in this year.  Players will do what they are told or they will be gone.  Nuff said.  Too much went wrong and too much unaccountability.  He can be either.  JJ Watt good?  Asking a bit much.

Teams that went 3-4 and let good players go:

Jets- Hugh Douglass
Jets- Vilma
Packers- Aaron Kampman
49'ers- Andre Carter
Skins- Haynesworth

Highboy, on 29 January 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

10 out of the top 15 defenses in the NFL are a 4-3. Just saying....

3 in the top 5, and IMO the Texans D is'nt that impressive and the packers D is atrocious

[Nivraga]

Highboy, on 29 January 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

10 out of the top 15 defenses in the NFL are a 4-3. Just saying....

AND What used to be attractive about the 3-4 was that few teams were using it so the pool of talent for that defense was plentiful. Now half the league is running the 3-4 and the pool of talent will be thinned out.

[patpikunas]

From purely a Physical and Athletic ability perspective, Cox would seem to be a good fit for DE in a 3-4.

Doesn't mean it will work out that way obviously..... but one would hope if they go in that direction he would be able to thrive

[Rodney_Zero]

patpikunas, on 31 January 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

From purely a Physical and Athletic ability perspective, Cox would seem to be a good fit for DE in a 3-4.

Doesn't mean it will work out that way obviously..... but one would hope if they go in that direction he would be able to thrive

Good points, I have seen teams switch from the 4-3 to the 3-4 the last 10 to 15 years with mixed results, and it takes time when you don't have the players to do it too. There are only two exceptions that went smoothly from the 4-3 to the 3-4 , GB and Houston, why?, they pretty much had the key ingrediants to do it and drafted well to fill the puzzle up. It took SF awhile,but when you are drafting high year in and year out it can be easier