63 replies to this topic

[aman88]

Trent Dilfer said something down the lines today on Mike and Mike that a quarterback needs to know how to run the spread offense.  Which is why it makes no sense that people think Vick could just be thrust in there to run it.  He has never ran it before in his life.

My Opinion:
This makes a lot of sense.  The read option offense requires a quarterback to understand and read what the defense is going to do.  Has Vick done ANYTHING to show he is capable of reading defenses in his past 3 years in Philadelphia or at all over his 10 season career?  How can he possibly run a more complex offense when he could not run simpler ones previously.



Mike Golic said something down the lines on Mike and Mike (mind you this was a week ago so I do not remember it exactly) but basically the reason why San Fan, Washington, and Seattle offenses (read option teams) work so well is because they have quarterbacks who can run, but more importantly throw the ball extremely well.  Kaepernick, RG3, and Wilson can beat teams with just their arms.

My Opinion:
Essentially they are throwing quarterbacks who can run.  Not running quarterbacks who "can throw," like Vick, Webb, Dixon, or even Kordell Stewart from back in the days.  The super athletic quarterback who makes up for his below average throwing ability with his scrambling ability are basically done in the league.  Winning quarterbacks have to be able to beat teams with their arms, if they can run also that is a plus.  It has been proven in this league that guys who cannot throw do not win.  Vick and Dixon both fall under that category.


To add:
I feel what Kelly is doing with the whole quarterback situation is idiotic.  If you have any inclination of starting Foles, then Kelly should be building a read option scheme around him.  He should be focusing on teaching him how to run it.  Kelly can bring in other quarterbacks to find out how they do, but should be giving the impression that this is Foles' job to lose, not to win.  If someone comes in and outplays him to earn the starting spot, then so be it.

[wussbasket]

Quote

To add:
I feel what Kelly is doing with the whole quarterback situation is idiotic.  If you have any inclination of starting Foles, then Kelly should be building a read option scheme around him.  He should be focusing on teaching him how to run it.  Kelly can bring in other quarterbacks to find out how they do, but should be giving the impression that this is Foles' job to lose, not to win.  If someone comes in and outplays him to earn the starting spot, then so be it.

this season is not even officially over, why the F would he show his hand early and decide right this second? just so you can get some comfort in knowing who the QB is going to be?

[time2rock]

Excellent post aman - great points by Dilfer and Golic.

And to the comment below ...

Quote

The super athletic quarterback who makes up for his below average throwing ability with his scrambling ability are basically done in the league.

... I'd also add below average IQ  

[kmass88]

These threads are getting tired. You got the pro-Vick/Foles people hanging on every word of every commentator about what Chip may or may not do. In an effort to get a leg up on the "I was right. You were wrong!" Messages that will be flooding this board after a decision is made.

NO ONE KNOWS WHAT CHIP KELLY IS GOING TO DO.

If you have any kind of objectivity and simple common sense. You'll know that Chip Kelly is not going to be designing an offense around ANY qb on the roster right now long term.  Because he is more than likely going to bring someone who he wants to be a part of his vision and scheme. And not the player(s) he inherited from Andy Reid to fit Andy Reids scheme.

So it doesn't matter at this point who gets the nod. They are just going to be a stop gap until Kelly can draft or groom someone for his offense in either this draft or the next draft.

[k9fiend]

Quote

To add:
I feel what Kelly is doing with the whole quarterback situation is idiotic.  If you have any inclination of starting Foles, then Kelly should be building a read option scheme around him.  He should be focusing on teaching him how to run it.  Kelly can bring in other quarterbacks to find out how they do, but should be giving the impression that this is Foles' job to lose, not to win.  If someone comes in and outplays him to earn the starting spot, then so be it.

So because Chip's not announcing to the public and  31 other NFL teams, what his plans are right now  you feel it's some how idiotic? How do you/we know he's not already building an offense around Foles? How do we know he hasn't been in contact with Nick regarding the future and Foles is just keeping his clam shut? The ONLY THING WE DO KNOW AS FANS, IS WE DON'T KNOW! So to pass judgement, or make assumptions at this juncture is..well "idiotic" in my opinion. (not calling you an idiot, just sayin')

[bobeph]

OP thinks he is smarter than Chip Kelly.  

[M_L_F]

aman88, on 01 February 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

I feel what Kelly is doing with the whole quarterback situation is idiotic.  If you have any inclination of starting Foles, then Kelly should be building a read option scheme around him.  He should be focusing on teaching him how to run it.  Kelly can bring in other quarterbacks to find out how they do, but should be giving the impression that this is Foles' job to lose, not to win.  If someone comes in and outplays him to earn the starting spot, then so be it.

And what exactly has he done that is so idiotic?

He hasn't even hired his staff yet
He hasn't added/removed any player to/from his roster.
He hasn't indicated anything negative about Foles.

How can he possibly have done something idiotic with our QBs when he...well...hasn't done anything?

How about we see what he actually does from a personnel standpoint before we criticize him at all?

[kmass88]

Look I know its slow and the off-season. But people are putting way to much stock in Vick or Foles when neither is going to be Chip Kelly's long term solution.  I don't care which of the two you like.

Neither of them are long term solutions for the Eagles. I guess mainly this is for the pro-Foles camp people. Because everyone knows Vick is not the long-term answer.

Unless Foles comes out and shows within the next year that he is an ELITE level qb. Chip is bringing his own guy(s) in.

I'm sorry, it is what it is. Foles may have an awesome NFL career elsewhere. But you can bet the house. That unless he completely tears ish up over the next year. Assuming he gets the starting nod. He's pretty much in no mans land right now, becasue Kelly is going to bring his own guy in.

[EagsnPhils4life]

Nobody knows what Kelly is going to do. Kelly might not even be positive what exactly he will be running week 1

[Lloyd]

aman88, on 01 February 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

To add:
I feel what Kelly is doing with the whole quarterback situation is idiotic.  If you have any inclination of starting Foles, then Kelly should be building a read option scheme around him.  He should be focusing on teaching him how to run it.  Kelly can bring in other quarterbacks to find out how they do, but should be giving the impression that this is Foles' job to lose, not to win.  If someone comes in and outplays him to earn the starting spot, then so be it.

What exactly is Kelly doing with the quarterback situation?

[BtotheH]

kmass88, on 01 February 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Look I know its slow and the off-season. But people are putting way to much stock in Vick or Foles when neither is going to be Chip Kelly's long term solution.  I don't care which of the two you like.

Neither of them are long term solutions for the Eagles. I guess mainly this is for the pro-Foles camp people. Because everyone knows Vick is not the long-term answer.

Unless Foles comes out and shows within the next year that he is an ELITE level qb. Chip is bringing his own guy(s) in.

I'm sorry, it is what it is. Foles may have an awesome NFL career elsewhere. But you can bet the house. That unless he completely tears ish up over the next year. Assuming he gets the starting nod. He's pretty much in no mans land right now, becasue Kelly is going to bring his own guy in.

This exactly 100%. I think at this point Chip is just trying to figure out which QB is going to give us the best oppurtunity to win this year. It could possibly be Foles but unless Foles comes out and has a year like say Russell Wilson, Foles will be demoted in 2014 and we will be drafting a new QB.

To the OP saying that what Kelly is doing to the QB situation is idiotic......you are an idiot for saying that. Stop being so impatient at a time when we have no rush. Would you rather Kelly only have taken 2-3 days to "evaluate" and rush into a QB decision? What Kelly has done is smart, he is taking his time to evaluate the right QB for us in 2013.

But back to the main topic of the read option. I think the read option can be successful but Kyle Shanahan, Seattle's OC and Greg Roman are going to have to change things for the 2013 season as well. The read option worked very well for these teams this year but who is to say that it becomes extinct by 2013-2014 because great defenses in the NFL have caught up on the film and have found ways to stop the read option, or at the very least slow it down.

Plus the read option got RG III seriously injured and could end up changing his career. Keapernick has taken some good shots as well, now his frame is built for it better but still these hits will catch up to Keapernick later on. Russell Wilson does the best of getting down as a read option QB, he slides way before contact and does not expose himself to getting hit often.

To me the read option is good, and yes with the right personnel it keeps the defenses on their toes, but you better have 2 QB's that know how to run it because eventually your #1 is going to get nicked and bruised. I just don't think the read option will stick around long in the NFL, I could be wrong but it just does not seem like a scheme that will keep your players in full health (especially your QB) for years and years.

[McMVP]

Lloyd, on 01 February 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

What exactly is Kelly doing with the quarterback situation?

That was my question...I'd love to know what he knows that no one else does...including Chip.

[we_gotta_believe]

aman88, on 01 February 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Trent Dilfer said something down the lines today on Mike and Mike that a quarterback needs to know how to run the spread offense.  Which is why it makes no sense that people think Vick could just be thrust in there to run it.  He has never ran it before in his life.

My Opinion:
This makes a lot of sense.  The read option offense requires a quarterback to understand and read what the defense is going to do.  Has Vick done ANYTHING to show he is capable of reading defenses in his past 3 years in Philadelphia or at all over his 10 season career?  How can he possibly run a more complex offense when he could not run simpler ones previously.



Mike Golic said something down the lines on Mike and Mike (mind you this was a week ago so I do not remember it exactly) but basically the reason why San Fan, Washington, and Seattle offenses (read option teams) work so well is because they have quarterbacks who can run, but more importantly throw the ball extremely well.  Kaepernick, RG3, and Wilson can beat teams with just their arms.

My Opinion:
Essentially they are throwing quarterbacks who can run.  Not running quarterbacks who "can throw," like Vick, Webb, Dixon, or even Kordell Stewart from back in the days.  The super athletic quarterback who makes up for his below average throwing ability with his scrambling ability are basically done in the league.  Winning quarterbacks have to be able to beat teams with their arms, if they can run also that is a plus.  It has been proven in this league that guys who cannot throw do not win.  Vick and Dixon both fall under that category.


To add:
I feel what Kelly is doing with the whole quarterback situation is idiotic.  If you have any inclination of starting Foles, then Kelly should be building a read option scheme around him.  He should be focusing on teaching him how to run it.  Kelly can bring in other quarterbacks to find out how they do, but should be giving the impression that this is Foles' job to lose, not to win.  If someone comes in and outplays him to earn the starting spot, then so be it.

Vick ran a subset of plays from a version of the read-option in 2010. A large portion of Shady's big runs that year were from this look.

[vic92353]

EagsnPhils4life, on 01 February 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Nobody knows what Kelly is going to do. Kelly might not even be positive what exactly he will be running week 1

Whatever he decides to do will not include Michael Vick.  I am not going to say horrible things about Michael Vick to make me feel good.  But Michael Vick is not in Chip Kellys plans.  

[E v 2.0]

While I agree with most of what the OP
said (besides his Nostradamus prediciton of what Chip Kelly is doing) I think we are confusing brains with throwing ability.

Intelligence and work ethic are what seperates them from Vick. Mike can throw with any of them. He just has no idea what he is doing out there.

[BIGPHILLY]

aman88, on 01 February 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

To add:
I feel what Kelly is doing with the whole quarterback situation is idiotic.  If you have any inclination of starting Foles, then Kelly should be building a read option scheme around him.  He should be focusing on teaching him how to run it.  Kelly can bring in other quarterbacks to find out how they do, but should be giving the impression that this is Foles' job to lose, not to win.  If someone comes in and outplays him to earn the starting spot, then so be it.

* He hasn't done anything at all yet. What are you talking about?

[dmor]

aman88, on 01 February 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

I feel what Kelly is doing with the whole quarterback situation is idiotic.  If you have any inclination of starting Foles, then Kelly should be building a read option scheme around him.  He should be focusing on teaching him how to run it.  Kelly can bring in other quarterbacks to find out how they do, but should be giving the impression that this is Foles' job to lose, not to win.  If someone comes in and outplays him to earn the starting spot, then so be it.

Kelly's been here a hot two weeks and already your calling him an idiot?  You don't even know what he's doing with the quarterback situation.  And for that matter, if he were to create competition for Foles, what's wrong with that.  Remind me again, how many games did Foles win in his starting role last year?

[gibsonplyer]

Good points until you added in your thoughts about what Kelly was doing.  He hasn't done anything yet first off.  He should be teaching Foles?  No the CBA prevents Chip and every coach in the league from doing anything with their players right now.  The season isn't over yet.  Chip is still building his staff, watching tape on the players, and working with the coaches he's already signed to design what he's going to do.  You have no idea what his plans are at this point.  He may have made a decision of which QB he wants (hopefully not Vick) and there is no reason to announce anything especially if part of the plan is to see if some other team will trade for Vick.

As far as the impression he's given Foles a lot of people would probably argue making him work for the job is better.  You don't want him to get complacent you want him to work hard for it because its not set in stone.  All he would accomplish by showing his plans now is 1) tipping of other teams in the NFL to start trying to plan for him and 2) placate the fans which sorry isn't that important especially right now.  His job is to win games not clue us in on his game planning.

[eagles nut]

If Foles is the QB, they won't be running the read option. They might get Foles to improve his speed marginally but he's just not they type of athlete to be any type of threat running the ball. Did you see the Tampa game?

[hukdonfoniks]

GENO SMITH 2013 BABY YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[bobeph]

hukdonfoniks, on 01 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

GENO SMITH 2013 BABY YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

HOLLLLLLLLAAAAAAZZZZ!!!!!!!

[we_gotta_believe]

hukdonfoniks, on 01 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

GENO SMITH 2013 BABY YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Love the avi.

[TV Guy]

Lloyd, on 01 February 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

What exactly is Kelly doing with the quarterback situation?

Exactly.

[aman88]

It is a confidence boost to the kid.  Make it his job to lose.  Thats all I am saying from a psychological standpoint.  If there is any remote chance he is going to start, then say that.  It would be better for the kids psychie to tell him "it is your job to lose" than to tell him "well we do not trust you will workout here."


I am sorry to say... but we should ALL be concerned if there are any plans of Vick or Dixon potentially starting.  It has been proven 100% that quarterbacks who cannot throw (which those two cannot) do not succeed.  If Kelly wants to draft Geno smith go ahead, if he wants to get Alex Smith go ahead.  The plan should be to start a quarterback that can make good decisions, not put an athletic guy in there who can run but has below average passing skills.  There is a reason why those offenses do not work in the pros, and guys like Dixon, Taylor, Smith are backups at best.  And why guys like Ohio States QB, despite going 12-0 are not NFL prospects.  That was my point.

[oskiew]

I don't like this thread.

[eephraim]

I just want this debate to die a quick death.

1. The read option simplifies the QB read by making him focus on how the DE or LB will react. He's not "reading the defense" in the true sense of the word.

2. I'm tired of this......

eagles nut, on 01 February 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

If Foles is the QB, they won't be running the read option. They might get Foles to improve his speed marginally but he's just not they type of athlete to be any type of threat running the ball. Did you see the Tampa game?

Whatever. He was blazing fast on that TD run.

At least a 6.5 40.

[Flyin_high1014]

http://25.media.tumb...r1pfeo1_400.gif

[judunno]

Lloyd, on 01 February 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

What exactly is Kelly doing with the quarterback situation?

Thinking about it I guess.

[kmass88]

aman88, on 01 February 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

It is a confidence boost to the kid.  Make it his job to lose.  Thats all I am saying from a psychological standpoint.  If there is any remote chance he is going to start, then say that.  It would be better for the kids psychie to tell him "it is your job to lose" than to tell him "well we do not trust you will workout here."


I am sorry to say... but we should ALL be concerned if there are any plans of Vick or Dixon potentially starting. It has been proven 100% that quarterbacks who cannot throw (which those two cannot) do not succeed.  If Kelly wants to draft Geno smith go ahead, if he wants to get Alex Smith go ahead.  The plan should be to start a quarterback that can make good decisions, not put an athletic guy in there who can run but has below average passing skills.  There is a reason why those offenses do not work in the pros, and guys like Dixon, Taylor, Smith are backups at best.  And why guys like Ohio States QB, despite going 12-0 are not NFL prospects.  That was my point.

You lost all credibility here. You must either be slow or fishing? They both can't "throw"?!

If you said "make adjustments to read the def." or something like that? Yeah maybe. But to say that Vick and Smith can't "throw" and don't 100% succeed is trollerific.

And newsflash

Unless your last name has been:
Brady
Manning
Brees
Rogders
Rothlisberger

You've been a runner up in terms of the ultimate goal (Superbowl) the last 14 years

[neal_c60]

oskiew, on 01 February 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

I don't like this thread.

I don't like turnips.