14 replies to this topic

[CT Eagle]

that Bill Parcel's didn't win anything without Bill Belichik  ?



Mjk...let me guess, it was the media's constant canonizing of Parcel's that made it happen because anyone who knows football knows that Parcel's greatness is just a myth ?  
Parcel's by most accounts is a total ahole and hating him went hand in hand with loving Buddy and some great Eagles teams.  That being said, Parcel's belongs in the HofF.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

CT Eagle, on 03 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

that Bill Parcel's didn't win anything without Bill Belichik  ?

He lost a Super Bowl with him too.

[Rodney_Zero]

VaBeach_Eagle, on 03 February 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

He lost a Super Bowl with him too.

CT Eagle, on 03 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

that Bill Parcel's didn't win anything without Bill Belichik  ?



Mjk...let me guess, it was the media's constant canonizing of Parcel's that made it happen because anyone who knows football knows that Parcel's greatness is just a myth ?  
Parcel's by most accounts is a total ahole and hating him went hand in hand with loving Buddy and some great Eagles teams.  That being said, Parcel's belongs in the HofF.

2 SB wins w the Giants
SB appearance with the Pats
AFCCG with the Jets
Playoffs with the cowboys
Turned around the Dolphins to AFC East Champions as a consultant

[VaBeach_Eagle]

Rodney_Zero, on 05 February 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

2 SB wins w the Giants
SB appearance with the Pats
AFCCG with the Jets
Playoffs with the cowboys
Turned around the Dolphins to AFC East Champions as a consultant

Not to mention there is no "NFL HofF".

[mjkvol]

Rodney_Zero, on 05 February 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

2 SB wins w the Giants
SB appearance with the Pats
AFCCG with the Jets
Playoffs with the cowboys
Turned around the Dolphins to AFC East Champions as a consultant

Isn't it just a tad coincidental that any meaningful success dried up when he didn't have Belicheck to lean his fat a** on?         Those last two entries sound like what Reid apologists use to prop him up.        Oh, that's right, you're one of those, too!!  

[RPeeteRules]

mjkvol, on 05 February 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

Isn't it just a tad coincidental that any meaningful success dried up when he didn't have Belicheck to lean his fat a** on? Those last two entries sound like what Reid apologists use to prop him up. Oh, that's right, you're one of those, too!!  

That's like saying it's just a tad coincidental that Belicheck hasn't won a Super Bowl since spygate, or since Crennel left his staff, or since Weiss left his staff.  He also only made the playoffs once out of seven years without having Brady.  With Brady, he's made the playoffs 10 out of 11 times.

[CT Eagle]

Do you think that Belichick had more impact on Parcel's success than Brady had on Belichick's ??

[mjkvol]

RPeeteRules, on 05 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

That's like saying it's just a tad coincidental that Belicheck hasn't won a Super Bowl since spygate, or since Crennel left his staff, or since Weiss left his staff.  He also only made the playoffs once out of seven years without having Brady.  With Brady, he's made the playoffs 10 out of 11 times.

The point was that Parcells didn't even sniff a championship game without Belicheck running his defense, and anyone who wants to include the Cowboys as an example of Parcells' success must be f****ng joking.     Belicheck's excellence has never ceased, and he is a couple of plays away from having five SB wins in about a decade - as it is, 3 of 5 pisses on Parcells, and any coach in this era.

You want to start talking about what coaches would have done what without certain players? That list would go on forever - suffice it to say that the Pats go into every single season as one of the SB favorites, and you need more than a QB to stay at that level year in and year out. And that's with assistants and coordinators constantly changing, and in an era of free agency and parity.

I wonder why it is always the Reid apologists who feel this need to knock Belicheck?

[RPeeteRules]

mjkvol, on 05 February 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

The point was that Parcells didn't even sniff a championship game without Belicheck running his defense, and anyone who wants to include the Cowboys as an example of Parcells' success must be f****ng joking. Belicheck's excellence has never ceased, and he is a couple of plays away from having five SB wins in about a decade - as it is, 3 of 5 pisses on Parcells, and any coach in this era.

You want to start talking about what coaches would have done what without certain players? That list would go on forever - suffice it to say that the Pats go into every single season as one of the SB favorites, and you need more than a QB to stay at that level year in and year out. And that's with assistants and coordinators constantly changing, and in an era of free agency and parity.

I wonder why it is always the Reid apologists who feel this need to knock Belicheck?

Nowhere in my post did I even mention Andy Reid.  Good attempt to divert the attention though.  You're crediting Parcells success to Belicheck, but won't credit other people for Belicheck's success in New England.  I was just doing what you did.  You are right, we can do that for many coaches in the NFL, and I was showing you that it's very simple to do it for Belicheck, as you have done it for Parcells.

[mjkvol]

RPeeteRules, on 05 February 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Nowhere in my post did I even mention Andy Reid.  Good attempt to divert the attention though.  You're crediting Parcells success to Belicheck, but won't credit other people for Belicheck's success in New England.  I was just doing what you did.  You are right, we can do that for many coaches in the NFL, and I was showing you that it's very simple to do it for Belicheck, as you have done it for Parcells.

Not diverting attention at all, it is just funny how it is always Reid apologists who want to blast the best coach in the last 20 years, and one of the greatest in league history.

Belicheck is the guy who replaced a local legend and Parcells 1st pick in the draft with Brady, who was a 6th round pick - who's to say that Brady has the same career anywhere else? Belicheck has had assistants change, the style of play in the league change, and free agency, yet has maintained excellence.       Where did I indicate that he had no help?      But faces changed, both player and assistant, yet the excellence remained.     That has to go to the guy running the show.

And my point about Parcells was that anything approaching excellence ceased once Belicheck left.     Please keep the facts straight at least.

[Rodney_Zero]

CT Eagle, on 05 February 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

Do you think that Belichick had more impact on Parcel's success than Brady had on Belichick's ??

Parcells is the one who switched the Giants to a 3-4 and made LT into a force, not Bellicheck, Bellicheck was one of Parcells "assistants". On a side note, the 3 SB wins for bellicheck where due to the defenses  that where made up with Parcells players, and Parcells is the one who switched Bruschi to ISLB, not Bellicheck

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 05 February 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Not diverting attention at all, it is just funny how it is always Reid apologists who want to blast the best coach in the last 20 years, and one of the greatest in league history.

Belicheck is the guy who replaced a local legend and Parcells 1st pick in the draft with Brady, who was a 6th round pick - who's to say that Brady has the same career anywhere else? Belicheck has had assistants change, the style of play in the league change, and free agency, yet has maintained excellence.    Where did I indicate that he had no help?   But faces changed, both player and assistant, yet the excellence remained. That has to go to the guy running the show.

And my point about Parcells was that anything approaching excellence ceased once Belicheck left. Please keep the facts straight at least.

The one face that hasn't changed has been Tom Brady.  Belichik's success has by and large come when he has had one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.  You can't discount that fact.  
Is Belichik a great coach ?  1000% yes.  Would he have a bunch of titles without a great QB ? NFW
Again...Belichik's successs without Brady is hardly excellent so if you want to argue that Parcel's wasn't excellent without BB, it is clearly a valid point.
The bottom line is that Parcells is in the HofF despite his polarizing personality and to me that speaks volumes.
I wonder what BB's record is as a HC without Brady and what Parcell's record is without BB.  It would be interesting although I would guess that they would both be mediocre.

[mjkvol]

Rodney_Zero, on 05 February 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

Parcells is the one who switched the Giants to a 3-4 and made LT into a force, not Bellicheck, Bellicheck was one of Parcells "assistants". On a side note, the 3 SB wins for bellicheck where due to the defenses  that where made up with Parcells players, and Parcells is the one who switched Bruschi to ISLB, not Bellicheck

How many SB's did Parcells get to without Belicheck, and vice versa, Rodney?

Game, set, match.

[Rodney_Zero]

mjkvol, on 05 February 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

How many SB's did Parcells get to without Belicheck, and vice versa, Rodney?

Game, set, match.

Nope

[mjkvol]

CT Eagle, on 05 February 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

The one face that hasn't changed has been Tom Brady.  Belichik's success has by and large come when he has had one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.  You can't discount that fact.  
Is Belichik a great coach ?  1000% yes.  Would he have a bunch of titles without a great QB ? NFW
Again...Belichik's successs without Brady is hardly excellent so if you want to argue that Parcel's wasn't excellent without BB, it is clearly a valid point.
The bottom line is that Parcells is in the HofF despite his polarizing personality and to me that speaks volumes.
I wonder what BB's record is as a HC without Brady and what Parcell's record is without BB.  It would be interesting although I would guess that they would both be mediocre.

After this, I'm done here - I didn't even want to get sucked into this stupidity.

When did I ever "discount" Brady's presence?    Belicheck went with him at a crucial time because he saw something - it was clearly validated.

Where would Noll have been without Bradshaw? Walsh without Montana?    Johnson without Aikman? The Colts without Manning?   Shanahan without Elway? Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc......................................

The one good thing is that the slob didn't go in on the first ballot, and absolutely didn't deserve to.

Have a nice night.