28 replies to this topic

[mjkvol]

This makes two Super Bowls won from a 'coaching tree' not often discussed - our own Ray Rhodes.

Both Sean Payton and John Harbaugh got their first NFL gigs here under Rhodes. That was a hell of a staff he put together, with Gruden, Payton, Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy and Emmitt Thomas.

McCarthy would make three, but he was hired by Marty Schottenheimer.

[TV Guy]

Interesting point.  I hope Chip is putting together a good staff.

[Runtherock]

David reversed field and praised Ray as evidence of Lurie knowing what he's doing when it comes to hiring coaches. This topic is, therefore, no longer on point. David now loves Ray,  

[mjkvol]

The topic has nothing to do with "David"'s view of Rhodes, it is simply a statement of fact - the man gave their initial NFL job to two coaches that have won Super Bowls.

We always hear about certain coaches' 'trees', and well here's one that no one ever mentions that has seriously borne fruit.

[djbigf]

nice.  as long as fat Andy doesn't get credit.

[Runtherock]

 mjkvol, on 04 February 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

The topic has nothing to do with "David"'s view of Rhodes...

My bad, I assumed it did since this is, you know, "Ask Dave."

[Rodney_Zero]

What about the Parcells tree?, mother Fer forks like a florida lighting bolt

[DaveSpadaro]

I don't think I have ever "reversed" field on Ray Rhodes .. things were promising here for two years and then the lack of QB doomed the team. Ray lost Gruden and the offense went to crap. There is a reason he has been in the league as long as he has been

[dmor]

 mjkvol, on 04 February 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

This makes two Super Bowls won from a 'coaching tree' not often discussed - our own Ray Rhodes.

Both Sean Payton and John Harbaugh got their first NFL gigs here under Rhodes. That was a hell of a staff he put together, with Gruden, Payton, Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy and Emmitt Thomas.

McCarthy would make three, but he was hired by Marty Schottenheimer.

Actually, Gruden makes it three.

[mjkvol]

 dmor, on 05 February 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Actually, Gruden makes it three.

Gruden worked for the Niners and Packers before coming here.      I'm basing it on initial hires.

[Runtherock]

 DaveSpadaro, on 05 February 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

I don't think I have ever "reversed" field on Ray Rhodes .. things were promising here for two years and then the lack of QB doomed the team. Ray lost Gruden and the offense went to crap. There is a reason he has been in the league as long as he has been

Yeah, you did. While you were propping Reid up during the death wails of his regime you frequently said how lame Ray was, rarely if ever praised his accomplishments, and then rolled out the gee aren't we fortunate to have Andy closer. There was never a happy day in Eagleland before Reid. On the other hand your boy Considine just won a Lombardi, so I guess I have to give you that.

[Rodney_Zero]

 Runtherock, on 05 February 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

, rarely if ever praised his accomplishments, .

as in 2 playoff appearances, that's one more than Jim Swartz, about the same as Del Rio, etc.....Ray Rhodes like many other former and currrent HC's are better at being a cordinator or a position coach.
  What's next, calling for a statue of Buddy Ryan at the Linc?

[Runtherock]

 Rodney_Zero, on 05 February 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

as in 2 playoff appearances, that's one more than Jim Swartz, about the same as Del Rio, etc.....Ray Rhodes like many other former and currrent HC's are better at being a cordinator or a position coach.
  What's next, calling for a statue of Buddy Ryan at the Linc?

And Coach of the Year.

[Rodney_Zero]

 Runtherock, on 05 February 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

And Coach of the Year.

Ok, Fire Kelly now and bring back Rhodes

[mjkvol]

 Runtherock, on 05 February 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Yeah, you did. While you were propping Reid up during the death wails of his regime you frequently said how lame Ray was, rarely if ever praised his accomplishments, and then rolled out the gee aren't we fortunate to have Andy closer. There was never a happy day in Eagleland before Reid. On the other hand your boy Considine just won a Lombardi, so I guess I have to give you that.

Good for Considine.   Here was a guy who was never going to be more than a nickel safety and special teams player who Reid decided was a Strong Safety in another of his genius personnel moves.   It obviously backfired, and this fan base blamed the player instead of the true culprit.   Same deal with blaming Simenau for not being a MIKE at 235 lbs. instead of faulting the idiot who let Trotter go.

I always like it when a guy misused by Reid goes on to have some success elsewhere.   So Considine is in a parade today - I'm happy for him.

[Rodney_Zero]

 mjkvol, on 05 February 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

Good for Considine.   Here was a guy who was never going to be more than a nickel safety and special teams player who Reid decided was a Strong Safety in another of his genius personnel moves.   It obviously backfired, and this fan base blamed the player instead of the true culprit.   Same deal with blaming Simenau for not being a MIKE at 235 lbs. instead of faulting the idiot who let Trotter go.

I always like it when a guy misused by Reid goes on to have some success elsewhere.   So Considine is in a parade today - I'm happy for him.

245 IIRC

[Runtherock]

 Rodney_Zero, on 05 February 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Ok, Fire Kelly now and bring back Rhodes

Stop acting like an idiot Rodney, no one is saying that. You're coming in on a continuing conversation that you missed the first two thirds of. Search the Ask Dave archives for a thread I started on Rhodes.

 mjkvol, on 05 February 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

Good for Considine.   Here was a guy who was never going to be more than a nickel safety and special teams player who Reid decided was a Strong Safety in another of his genius personnel moves.   It obviously backfired, and this fan base blamed the player instead of the true culprit.   Same deal with blaming Simenau for not being a MIKE at 235 lbs. instead of faulting the idiot who let Trotter go.

I always like it when a guy misused by Reid goes on to have some success elsewhere.   So Considine is in a parade today - I'm happy for him.

Yeah, that's a solid point.

[Rodney_Zero]

 Runtherock, on 05 February 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Stop acting like an idiot Rodney, no one is saying that. You're coming in on a continuing conversation that you missed the first two thirds of. Search the Ask Dave archives for a thread I started on Rhodes.

Idiot?, Rhodes was'nt that good, and who cares what dave said or may have said, and if he did say a negative comment on rhodes then kuddos

[Runtherock]

 Rodney_Zero, on 05 February 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

Idiot?, Rhodes was'nt that good, and who cares what dave said or may have said, and if he did say a negative comment on rhodes then kuddos

[PoconoDon]

Ray Rhodes is an interesting guy to me. I don't think that one of his strengths was keeping things calm when needed, and it was probably the root of his downfall as a head coach. The fire within burned too bright, and he seemed to have trouble accepting that everyone didn't view the game in the same way that he did, which is why I believe he lost the team. In that regard, he reminds me of Mike Singletary. Some people are just built that way, and I think Rhodes is one of them. To that end, he was not the best candidate to be a head coach, because that job seems to require the ability to perceive when to let off the gas, and then act on it.

What I think was his greatest strength, was the ability to identify great DB's and assemble them. He played CB for the Giants for a pretty long time, and was never a terrific talent, but he played above his natural ability through an indomitable commitment to hard work, study, and practice. He was the anti-paycheck player. A true genius recognized this, and brought him in at the end of Ray's playing career, assessed him in person, and then gave him the job of secondary coach...that genius was Bill Walsh.  What Walsh saw, and what was proven to be true for decades thereafter, was that Ray may have been among the very best ever, at putting together terrific secondaries on very short notice.

Walsh asked Ray what he wanted for the secondary and Ray told him what and who he wanted. That year they drafted 3 rookies that were named starters....that secondary, which was put together in one off-season, put 3 in the Pro Bowl, and one of them was Hall of Fame safety, Ronnie Lott. That was the impact of Ray Rhodes on the Niners, in his first year of coaching, and Walsh was proven correct. Wherever Ray Rhodes went, he did the same thing, he assembled a really good secondary in Green Bay, put together Vincent, Taylor, and Dawk here in Philadelphia, and then put together a really good secondary in Seattle when he went there.

Was he a great head coach? No he wasn't, but that doesn't mean he wasn't great in other ways.

For the Eagles today, they don't need Ray Rhodes, but they do need a HC as masterful as Walsh in assembling, and then maximizing, both coaching and player talent....I hope they finally have one in Kelly.

[Randy Rampage]

Excellent analysis, PoconoDon.

[mjkvol]

 PoconoDon, on 06 February 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

What I think was his greatest strength, was the ability to identify great DB's and assemble them. He played CB for the Giants for a pretty long time, and was never a terrific talent, but he played above his natural ability through an indomitable commitment to hard work, study, and practice. He was the anti-paycheck player

And the fact that he began as a WR for a couple of seasons before moving to CB could only help in knowing what it took to build an effective NFL secondary.

[Runtherock]

 PoconoDon, on 06 February 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Ray Rhodes is an interesting guy to me. I don't think that one of his strengths was keeping things calm when needed, and it was probably the root of his downfall as a head coach. The fire within burned too bright, and he seemed to have trouble accepting that everyone didn't view the game in the same way that he did, which is why I believe he lost the team. In that regard, he reminds me of Mike Singletary. Some people are just built that way, and I think Rhodes is one of them. To that end, he was not the best candidate to be a head coach, because that job seems to require the ability to perceive when to let off the gas, and then act on it.

What I think was his greatest strength, was the ability to identify great DB's and assemble them. He played CB for the Giants for a pretty long time, and was never a terrific talent, but he played above his natural ability through an indomitable commitment to hard work, study, and practice. He was the anti-paycheck player. A true genius recognized this, and brought him in at the end of Ray's playing career, assessed him in person, and then gave him the job of secondary coach...that genius was Bill Walsh.  What Walsh saw, and what was proven to be true for decades thereafter, was that Ray may have been among the very best ever, at putting together terrific secondaries on very short notice.

Walsh asked Ray what her wanted for the secondary and Ray told him what and who he wanted. That year they drafted 3 rookies that were named starters....that secondary, which was put together in one off-season, put 3 in the Pro Bowl, and one of them was Hall of Fame safety, Ronnie Lott. That was the impact of Ray Rhodes on the Niners, in his first year of coaching, and Walsh was proven correct. Wherever Ray Rhodes went, he did the same thing, he assembled a really good secondary in Green Bay, put together Vincent, Taylor, and Dawk here in Philadelphia, and then put together a really good secondary in Seattle when he went there.

Was he a great head coach? No he wasn't, but that doesn't mean he wasn't great in other ways.

For the Eagles today, they don't need Ray Rhodes, but they do need a HC as masterful as Walsh in assembling, and then maximizing, both coaching and player talent....I hope they finally have one in Kelly.

Excellent job, and I agree completely. My point all along re: his tenure here as head coach is while not great, he was far from the bum he was (ahem) portrayed by some to be. He had playoff years, he won Coach of the Year, in short, the franchise did in fact enjoy some success prior to Reid's arrival.

[PoconoDon]

 Runtherock, on 06 February 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Excellent job, and I agree completely. My point all along re: his tenure here as head coach is while not great, he was far from the bum he was (ahem) portrayed by some to be. He had playoff years, he won Coach of the Year, in short, the franchise did in fact enjoy some success prior to Reid's arrival.

I agree completely.

[PoconoDon]

 mjkvol, on 06 February 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

And the fact that he began as a WR for a couple of seasons before moving to CB could only help in knowing what it took to build an effective NFL secondary.

Good point MJ, and I think it certainly helped him.

[Runtherock]

Pocono is one of the best posters on the EMB. No kidding. His stuff is always well thought out.

[Rodney_Zero]

 mjkvol, on 06 February 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

And the fact that he began as a WR for a couple of seasons before moving to CB could only help in knowing what it took to build an effective NFL secondary.

Add in Dungy being a QB in college before moving to nickel back with the steelers as well

[dmor]

 djbigf, on 04 February 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

nice.  as long as fat Andy doesn't get credit.

Andy rules you.  He's still occupies your mind and drives your interest in the Eagles and football.  He owns you.

 PoconoDon, on 06 February 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Ray Rhodes is an interesting guy to me. I don't think that one of his strengths was keeping things calm when needed, and it was probably the root of his downfall as a head coach. The fire within burned too bright, and he seemed to have trouble accepting that everyone didn't view the game in the same way that he did, which is why I believe he lost the team. In that regard, he reminds me of Mike Singletary. Some people are just built that way, and I think Rhodes is one of them. To that end, he was not the best candidate to be a head coach, because that job seems to require the ability to perceive when to let off the gas, and then act on it.

What I think was his greatest strength, was the ability to identify great DB's and assemble them. He played CB for the Giants for a pretty long time, and was never a terrific talent, but he played above his natural ability through an indomitable commitment to hard work, study, and practice. He was the anti-paycheck player. A true genius recognized this, and brought him in at the end of Ray's playing career, assessed him in person, and then gave him the job of secondary coach...that genius was Bill Walsh.  What Walsh saw, and what was proven to be true for decades thereafter, was that Ray may have been among the very best ever, at putting together terrific secondaries on very short notice.

Walsh asked Ray what her wanted for the secondary and Ray told him what and who he wanted. That year they drafted 3 rookies that were named starters....that secondary, which was put together in one off-season, put 3 in the Pro Bowl, and one of them was Hall of Fame safety, Ronnie Lott. That was the impact of Ray Rhodes on the Niners, in his first year of coaching, and Walsh was proven correct. Wherever Ray Rhodes went, he did the same thing, he assembled a really good secondary in Green Bay, put together Vincent, Taylor, and Dawk here in Philadelphia, and then put together a really good secondary in Seattle when he went there.

Was he a great head coach? No he wasn't, but that doesn't mean he wasn't great in other ways.

For the Eagles today, they don't need Ray Rhodes, but they do need a HC as masterful as Walsh in assembling, and then maximizing, both coaching and player talent....I hope they finally have one in Kelly.

In retrospect, I think it should not be overlooked that Rhodes assembled a very good coaching staff.  I think that in no small part attributed to his success in his first two years with the team.

[PoconoDon]

 dmor, on 06 February 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

Andy rules you.  He's still occupies your mind and drives your interest in the Eagles and football.  He owns you.



In retrospect, I think it should not be overlooked that Rhodes assembled a very good coaching staff.  I think that in no small part attributed to his success in his first two years with the team.

Absolutely true as well. He had an eye for coaching talent as well. Let's hope Chip Kelly is even better at it.