85 replies to this topic

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

You're right because I have, but not Boley or Canty as you posted (hence the "BS" reference), but the players who legitimately fit those descriptions based on the frequency with which they "repeatedly" are injured :

Player I have "repeatedly categorized as injury-prone":
Bradshaw
Tuck
Nicks
KP
Austin
Thomas

Now if you think you can actually make a credible argument that any of those players don't justifiably deserve the injury-prone tag by all means go for it:

As far as the "overpaid" tag goes, while it's true that you can basically slot most veteran starters into different, comparable salary ranges based on position, the overwhelming majority of players that get that label is because thier performance, production and/or contribution doesn't justify thier compensation, not because of the position they play unless it's completely out of whack in comparison to their counterparts (like paying a G top LT money).  T

The "injury prone" and "overpaid" labels are also not mutually exclusive because if a player is getting top $, but spends far more time in the trainer's room than on the field then their "contributions" are not justifying their compensation:

Players I have "repeatedly categorized as overpaid:
Rolle - Solid starter but has always been much more effective as an in-the-box S than he is in coverage but was made the highest paid S in the league when he was signed and his 2013 CAP hit is 9.25M, again more than any S in the league.

Baas -  You need look no further than the jersey coaching staff, beat writers, gradings, etc to find repeatedly expressed concerns about his level of performance since signing, and with a 6.275M Cap hit is the 5th highest paid C in the NFL.

Snee -  Had been the best OL on the roster for a number of years but  8.8M is within the salary range of the top LTs in the league.

Webster - Has never been considered a Top corner, graded out at 110 out of 113 starting CB, 9.75M Cap, need I say more?

So if you don't feel any of those players are overpaid based on their performance you're entitled to your opinion but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Bottom line: Jersey fans can play the "the ends justify the means" card all they want, but no team, (some who have been far more consistently successful in the past), were able to roll the "rob Peter to pay Paul" CAP dice for too long before eventually having to suffer the consequences.  Now whether or not that is what jersey is now facing is TBD so we'll see what we will see.

What they are trying to do, and Reese is the guy I trust for the job, is rebuild the team on the fly. Not so dis-similar to what the Eagles did from 2008 through 2011 (minus the whole Dream Team BS)..there won't be major FA signings..It's not an easy job(see the last 48 hours as evidence), but it has to be done..Reese wants to have a team that is championship calibre every year until Eli retires (next 5-7 years or so), not every 2 years or so...the full scale rebuild comes the day 10 announces his retirement...but, if you follow the team, this is how they operate..you want to know exactly when they knew they were cutting Bradshaw? Last Draft Night when they took Wilson..they always think future, not immediately..They drafted Linval Joseph because they knew Coefield was leaving..Kiwi was drafted because Strahan was about to retire..JPP because they knew Osi was leaving (although he stayed one year longer)..this is how they operate..

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Wow..to no surprise, JNC is talking out of both side of his mouth..Bottom line here: Jerry Reese has certainly earned the right to be trusted with these moves and subsequent moves..the man knows what he's doing, his resume proves that..if this was Howie Roseman, I'd be worried..me? Not in the least..They will go with Wilson/Brown(most likely) at RB; although don't discount AB coming back at a reduced salary..they have always de-valued the LB's in their scheme(yet somehow have 2 Lombardi's as a result)..I anticipate nothing will change in this regard..now, DT is a concern..Linval Joseph can't do it all..they need guys to step up, no doubt...but, again it's February 7th..chances are, by the time opening day comes around in September, they'll have the best roster among everyone in the East...

Hey, ricky, based on how completely incompetent you are at comprehending how (NFL) finances work, coupled with the fact that you're supposedly employed by a "financial services" company that just laid off 2000 people, you'd probably be better off spending a lot more time buckling down on the job instead of just wasting all of the time you're supposed to be working on the EMB constantly regurgitating "Resse is GOD and can do no wrong" posts along with all the rest of the obviously clueless BS you've been slinging lately.

Unless of course you're regarded as "top hand with a mop bucket" there and so have no reason to worry?

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Hey, ricky, based on how completely incompetent you are at comprehending how (NFL) finances work, coupled with the fact that you're supposedly employed by a "financial services" company that just laid off 2000 people, you'd probably be better off spending a lot more time buckling down on the job instead of just wasting all of the time you're supposed to be working on the EMB constantly regurgitating "Resse is GOD and can do no wrong" posts along with all the rest of the obviously clueless BS you've been slinging lately.

Unless of course you're regarded as "top hand with a mop bucket" there and so have no reason to worry?

Hey...since your so much of a Costanza fan, maybe you should follow his lead after making a rare good joke to leave on a high note..subsequent attempts at humor, such as this one, fail miserably..

Anyway, back to the subject at hand: Reese hasn't earned trust among Giant fans? Is that what you're saying? Because not everyone can be "blessed" with Howie Roseman running the show...

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

What they are trying to do, and Reese is the guy I trust for the job, is rebuild the team on the fly. Not so dis-similar to what the Eagles did from 2008 through 2011 (minus the whole Dream Team BS)..there won't be major FA signings..It's not an easy job(see the last 48 hours as evidence), but it has to be done..Reese wants to have a team that is championship calibre every year until Eli retires (next 5-7 years or so), not every 2 years or so...the full scale rebuild comes the day 10 announces his retirement...but, if you follow the team, this is how they operate..you want to know exactly when they knew they were cutting Bradshaw? Last Draft Night when they took Wilson..they always think future, not immediately..They drafted Linval Joseph because they knew Coefield was leaving..Kiwi was drafted because Strahan was about to retire..JPP because they knew Osi was leaving (although he stayed one year longer)..this is how they operate..

No you're right, all of these moves were just part of a long ago conceived master plan by the infallible Reese and not forced-hand CAP casualties, despite all of the evidence to the contray.

But hey, don't sell him short because in addition to Bradshaw I'm sure he also knew he was also cutting Boley back on draft day in 09' when he picked Stitim in the 2nd round and Canty on the same day when he picked Austin and Kuhn in the past 2 drafts.

Guess we'll just have to wait to see how it all works out next season.

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

No you're right, all of these moves were just part of a long ago conceived master plan by the infallible Reese and not forced-hand CAP casualties, despite all of the evidence to the contray.

But hey, don't sell him short because in addition to Bradshaw I'm sure he also knew he was also cutting Boley back on draft day in 09' when he picked Stitim in the 2nd round and Canty on the same day when he picked Austin and Kuhn in the past 2 drafts.

Guess we'll just have to wait to see how it all works out next season.

Reese's plan is to have a championship ready roster in September...Reese isn't someone I'd bet against..he's earned that from us (NYG fans)...

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Reese's plan is to have a championship ready roster in September...Reese isn't someone I'd bet against..he's earned that from us (NYG fans)...

Reese ascended to the GM spot in 07', yes he was a member of the player personnel deptartment prior to that but since you're non-stop mantra has been that he's "undoubtable as a "GM" you really need to objectively examine his track record since he took over that role:

07' - Won SB, but get real, jersey won that game 99% because of the D and the Corky/Tyree miracle, with none of the players primarily responsible for that win acquired in his 1st draft as "GM".  Players still on the roster from the 07' draft = 1, DeOssie (4th rd). So you can credit Reese the GM with that title if you want, but most would not.

08'  - 12 - 4, Won the division but went 1 and done in the playoffs as the NFC's #1 seed. Players still on the roster from the 08' draft = 1, Thomas (2nd)

09' - 8-8, no playoffs. Players still on the roster from the 09' draft = =1, Nicks (1st)

10' -  10 - 6, no playoffs, Players still on the roster from the 10' draft = 3, JPP (1st), Joseph (2nd), Cruz (RFA).  However please don't pretend that jersey diligently identified Cruz as some can't miss prospect so they used a pick to ensure they got him, as oppossed to the reality that he was offered URFA contracts by multiple teams and HE picked them.  

11' - 9 - 7, Won SB, but with a number of key contributors including the MVP were acquired before he became GM. Players still on the roster from the 11' draft = 5, Prince (1st), Austin (2nd), Jerrigan (3rd), Brewer (4th), Williams (6th)

12' - 9 - 7 no playoffs, Not going to tally "picks from the most recent draft still on the roster" for obvious reason, but the reality is that they only got a significant contribution for their 1st rounder but as a KR, not RB.

Notable FA signings during his tenure - Boley, Baas, Bennett, Players still on the roster = 1, Baas

Bottom line: since Reese "took over" as GM, the moves he's made have really resulted in:

- 2 post season berths, (1) SB 11', (1) 1-and-done 08', failed to make theplayoffs in 3 of the past 4 seasons.

- only 6 players remaining on the roster from his first 4 drafts, (2) 1st rounders, (2) 2nd rounders (1 of which (Thomas)is most likely done due to repeated knee injuries and the other (Austin) who hasn't done ish), a 6th rd long-snapper and an UDRA.

- Starters/key contributors from his past 2 drafts = (2) Prince and Wilson (but only as a KR) both 1st rounders.

Sorry, but when you really objectively analyze his "GM" track record it's hardly all that impressive.

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Reese ascended to the GM spot in 07', yes he was a member of the player personnel deptartment prior to that but since you're non-stop mantra has been that he's "undoubtable as a "GM" you really need to objectively examine his track record since he took over that role:

07' - Won SB, but get real, jersey won that game 99% because of the D and the Corky/Tyree miracle, with none of the players primarily responsible for that win acquired in his 1st draft as "GM".  Players still on the roster from the 07' draft = 1, DeOssie (4th rd). So you can credit Reese the GM with that title if you want, but most would not.

08'  - 12 - 4, Won the division but went 1 and done in the playoffs as the NFC's #1 seed. Players still on the roster from the 08' draft = 1, Thomas (2nd)

09' - 8-8, no playoffs. Players still on the roster from the 09' draft = =1, Nicks (1st)

10' -  10 - 6, no playoffs, Players still on the roster from the 10' draft = 3, JPP (1st), Joseph (2nd), Cruz (RFA).  However please don't pretend that jersey diligently identified Cruz as some can't miss prospect so they used a pick to ensure they got him, as oppossed to the reality that he was offered URFA contracts by multiple teams and HE picked them.  

11' - 9 - 7, Won SB, but with a number of key contributors including the MVP were acquired before he became GM. Players still on the roster from the 11' draft = 5, Prince (1st), Austin (2nd), Jerrigan (3rd), Brewer (4th), Williams (6th)

12' - 9 - 7 no playoffs, Not going to tally "picks from the most recent draft still on the roster" for obvious reason, but the reality is that they only got a significant contribution for their 1st rounder but as a KR, not RB.

Notable FA signings during his tenure - Boley, Baas, Bennett, Players still on the roster = 1, Baas

Bottom line: since Reese "took over" as GM, the moves he's made have really resulted in:

- 2 post season berths, (1) SB 11', (1) 1-and-done 08', failed to make theplayoffs in 3 of the past 4 seasons.

- only 6 players remaining on the roster from his first 4 drafts, (2) 1st rounders, (2) 2nd rounders (1 of which (Thomas)is most likely done due to repeated knee injuries and the other (Austin) who hasn't done ish), a 6th rd long-snapper and an UDRA.

- Starters/key contributors from his past 2 drafts = (2) Prince and Wilson (but only as a KR) both 1st rounders.

Sorry, but when you really objectively analyze his "GM" track record it's hardly all that impressive.

Reese>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>entire Eagle FO...you'd take him over Howie, and you know it..

Anyway, despite your claim, he's generally regarded as a top 3-5 GM and the Giants are regarded as a model franchise. Remember back in 2011 when everyone was burying the team because they didn't over-spend on Boss/Smith? He knew the talent on the roster and stood by his roster..that year ended up pretty well, no?
And, like I said, the $$ issue you like to repeat will NOT prevent them from putting together, most likely, the best team in the division by September..I'd be worried if they had a game Sunday, but since they have 8 MONTHS, I'm not really concerned...it's not like this is the Eagles situation where I'd know right now I have no shot next season...

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Reese>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>entire Eagle FO...you'd take him over Howie, and you know it..

Anyway, despite your claim, he's generally regarded as a top 3-5 GM and the Giants are regarded as a model franchise. Remember back in 2011 when everyone was burying the team because they didn't over-spend on Boss/Smith? He knew the talent on the roster and stood by his roster..that year ended up pretty well, no?
And, like I said, the $$ issue you like to repeat will NOT prevent them from putting together, most likely, the best team in the division by September..I'd be worried if they had a game Sunday, but since they have 8 MONTHS, I'm not really concerned...it's not like this is the Eagles situation where I'd know right now I have no shot next season...

First of all by what method, other than delusional, blind homerism, is it possible to determine which team has the "best roster" in any division in September?  

Any rational analysts, FOs/coaching staffs, or fans would wait to see how the division plays out,  but of course as it's always been here in your mind ( for lack of a more appropriate descriptor), they've had the best roster in the division ever year despite how many times they haven't won it and/or struggled to play .500 ball. So obviously we can all now look forward to your non-stop barage of "why jersey not only has the best roster, but the best player at every position in the NFCE" posts next September, Yippee!

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

First of all by what method, other than delusional, blind homerism, is it possible to determine which team has the "best roster" in any division in September?  

Any rational analysts, FOs/coaching staffs, or fans would wait to see how the division plays out,  but of course as it's always been here in your mind ( for lack of a more appropriate descriptor), they've had the best roster in the division ever year despite how many times they haven't won it and/or struggled to play .500 ball.

Look at the cumulative records of the East since the start of 2005..You'll see which team has been the best...and, quite honestly, it hasn't been close...Reese has a lot to say with that as Accorsi's #1 aide and as GM...

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Look at the cumulative records of the East since the start of 2005..You'll see which team has been the best...and, quite honestly, it hasn't been close...Reese has a lot to say with that as Accorsi's #1 aide and as GM...

Absolutely no doubt, they've hands down been the best (cumulative or ortherwise), despite the # of seasons they've failed to make the playoffs, failed to post double digit wins, failed to play better than .500 ball in the divison, were owned (regular season and playoffs) by a particular divisonal opponent, collapsed down stretch or how low any of their units ranked in the league.    

After all, baseless opnions will always hold more credibility than factual results especially if you post said baseless opinion over and over and over and over again (ad nauseum) on a sports MB.

[rich36]

The EMB...gotta love it..the only place in America where Eli Manning isn't an elite QB and Jerry Reese isn't a top GM

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

The EMB...gotta love it..the only place in America where Eli Manning isn't an elite QB and Jerry Reese isn't an elite GM

Don't cry and by all means don't let the cyber door hit ya where the good Lord split ya because i'm sure there's another MB option somewhere dominated with people who think (for lack of a more appropriate descriptor) exactly as you do.

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Don't cry and by all means don't let the cyber door hit ya where the good Lord split ya because i'm sure there's another MB option somewhere dominated with people who think (for lack of a more appropriate descriptor) exactly as you do.

Not crying at all..it's funny..you know you'd happily take the entire NYG FO and Manning over what you've had to endure with since, oh say, 1960...

[rich36]

Good luck with your new DC..looking at his D rankings as a DC in Arizona and SF, he's looking very Perry Fewell-esque

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Not crying at all..it's funny..you know you'd happily take the entire NYG FO and Manning over what you've had to endure with since, oh say, 1960...

No thanks, Accorsi is long retired and we already had Marc Ross, (the real brains of that operation) and Corky, good GOD no, that "chuck & duck" pansy wouldn't have lasted 2 seasons in Philly.

But seriously, since there obviously aren't any other even remotely "like-minded" members here that you can identify with I'm sure you'd find an abundance of kindred spirits over at "slurpeverythingblue.com", so you really should check it out.

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Good luck with your new DC..looking at his D rankings as a DC in Arizona and SF, he's looking very Perry Fewell-esque

It all comes back to talent.  Look at Fewell's unit rankings with other teams, he didn't crash and burn and irrevocably ruin his rep until he hooked up with that joke squad in nth jersey.

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

It all comes back to talent.  Look at Fewell's unit rankings with other teams, he didn't crash and burn and irrevocably ruin his rep until he hooked up with that joke squad in nth jersey.

Look at his squads in Buffalo....same crap

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Look at his squads in Buffalo....same crap

It still all comes back to talent, the last time jesey's D was truly upper echelon was 07' (not coincedentally all Accorsi guys being coached by a Jim Johnson disciple), but once that core started retiring, got old/injury-prone and/or moved on in FA they've been consistently ranking near the bottom of the league (including a season where they gave up the most points in franchise history) despite a couple of DC changes and it's obviously only going to get much. much worse going forward.

The old adage "that you can't make  chicken salad out of chicken ish" leaps to mind.

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

It still all comes back to talent, the last time jesey's D was truly upper echelon was 07' (not coincedentally all Accorsi guys being coached by a Jim Johnson disciple), but once that core started retiring, got old/injury-prone and/or moved on in FA they've been consistently ranking near the bottom of the league (including a season where they gave up the most points in franchise history) despite a couple of DC changes and it's obviously only going to get much. much worse going forward.

The old adage "that you can't make  chicken salad out of chicken ish" leaps to mind.

Sure if you say so...
So let's settle this one and for all: The next 5 years, which team you think is in a better shape to win a SB?..
(please tell me the E's so I can fall out of my chair laughing)

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

It all comes back to talent.  Look at Fewell's unit rankings with other teams, he didn't crash and burn and irrevocably ruin his rep until he hooked up with that joke squad in nth jersey.

The gang up in TATE is ready to jump off a bridge over this dude

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Sure if you say so...
So let's settle this one and for all: The next 5 years, which team you think is in a better shape to win a SB?..
(please tell me the E's so I can fall out of my chair laughing)

We wre discussing the D dipsheet, either try and keep up or just do us all a favor and shut up.

Your D flat out stunk on ice this past season and all they've done since is cut their 3rd leader tackler and best DT (with nothing in the wings at DT but a 2nd rd bust and another kid who blew out his knee in mid-Nov), their #2 sack leader (with a whoppin 6, a .5 sack less than the 'leader" ) is getting pretty long in the tooth and is an UFA and the #3 guy is chronically injury-prone and clearly washed up, 2 other starting LBs are also UFAs, a 9.75M CB who graded out 110 out of a possible 113 and a #3 corner who was one of the only 3 guys who actually graded out lower   and a former #1 Reese pick SS who is also an UFA but had his already suspect wheels shreded by Shady McCoy.

But I'll save you the trouble of re-telling us all why the D isn't going to be garbage again next year "Jerry Reese is GOD and every player he's ever picked or will ever pick especially on the defensive side is a HOF lock!"

As far as which team is going to win a title in the next 5 years?  Jersey's window is and has been closed (really since 09' if not for Kyle Williams) so they're a no-brainer elimination, Chip has a 5 year, no doubt brilliantly-conceived plan but until he reveals it I can't give them a ringing endorsement at this point in time.

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

We wre discussing the D dipsheet, either try and keep up or just do us all a favor and shut up.

Your D flat out stunk on ice this past season and all they've done since is cut their 3rd leader tackler and best DT (with nothing in the wings at DT but a 2nd rd bust and another kid who blew out his knee in mid-Nov), their #2 sack leader (with a whoppin 6, a .5 sack less than the 'leader" ) is getting pretty long in the tooth and is an UFA and the #3 guy is chronically injury-prone and clearly washed up, 2 other starting LBs are also UFAs, a 9.75M CB who graded out 110 out of a possible 113 and a #3 corner who was one of the only 3 guys who actually graded out lower   and a former #1 Reese pick SS who is also an UFA but had his already suspect wheels shreded by Shady McCoy.

But I'll save you the trouble of re-telling us all why the D isn't going to be garbage again next year "Jerry Reese is GOD and every player he's ever picked or will ever pick especially on the defensive side is a HOF lock!"

As far as which team is going to win a title in the next 5 years?  Jersey's window is and has been closed (really since 09' if not for Kyle Williams) so they're a no-brainer elimination, Chip has a 5 year, no doubt brilliantly-conceived plan but until he reveals it I can't give them a ringing endorsement at this point in time.

Laughable post
But, here's an article that should shut you up and put this to rest:
http://espn.go.com/b...put-to-the-test

AND, not to beat a dead horse, tell me when Alex Smith and that SF Offense was marching down the field vs the Giants in that 4th quarter and OT? It wasn't going to happen...

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Laughable post
But, here's an article that should shut you up and put this to rest:
http://espn.go.com/b...put-to-the-test

AND, not to beat a dead horse, tell me when Alex Smith and that SF Offense was marching down the field vs the Giants in that 4th quarter and OT? It wasn't going to happen...

Why would it shut me up?

The article is basically just restating everything I've alread posted here the past few days, so yes between Dan's mirror image of my assessment (I've long suspected that he monitors the EMB for my NFCE insights) coupled with the even more indepth additional analysis I've provided we can put it to rest for now, but we'll revisit it next season when it's proven that Reese ain't ish (particularly when it comes to drafting defensive players) and that his entire, supposed "reputation" is based on a couple early rounders turning into good players, which has pretty much been the norm for every team in the league since Moses was in short pants.

"general manager Jerry Reese has a reputation as a shrewd handler of the NFL draft. We are about to find out whether he deserves it."

"The cuts this week of championship mainstays Ahmad Bradshaw, Michael Boley and Chris Canty signal a time of such regeneration. The Giants make these moves -- and likely more cuts to come -- with the hope that the replacements for these players are already in their locker room. The extent to which that turns out to be the case will help determine just how good Reese's past few drafts have been."

[Rodney_Zero]

Giants- 5 SB's- 4 Rings

Eagles- 2 SB's- 0 Rings

That's all that matters

[rich36]

MightyJNC, on 07 February 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Why would it shut me up?

The article is basically just restating everything I've alread posted here the past few days, so yes between Dan's mirror image of my assessment (I've long suspected that he monitors the EMB for my NFCE insights) coupled with the even more indepth additional analysis I've provided we can put it to rest for now, but we'll revisit it next season when it's proven that Reese ain't ish (particularly when it comes to drafting defensive players) and that his entire, supposed "reputation" is based on a couple early rounders turning into good players, which has pretty much been the norm for every team in the league since Moses was in short pants.

"general manager Jerry Reese has a reputation as a shrewd handler of the NFL draft. We are about to find out whether he deserves it."

"The cuts this week of championship mainstays Ahmad Bradshaw, Michael Boley and Chris Canty signal a time of such regeneration. The Giants make these moves -- and likely more cuts to come -- with the hope that the replacements for these players are already in their locker room. The extent to which that turns out to be the case will help determine just how good Reese's past few drafts have been."

Everytime Reese is questioned he and the team end up with a parade down Broadway...

[MightyJNC]

rich36, on 07 February 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Everytime Reese is questioned he and the team end up with a parade down Broadway...

So now once (2011)  is "everytime".   X infinity

I don't even care what  color the sky is in your world anymore, but it"s now crystal clear why you spend so much time on MBs, because it has to be almost impossible to constantly gargle Corky's & Reese's sack and still be able to speak.

rich36. "nonstop, hands free blue nut slurping since 2007".