599 replies to this topic

[pgcd3]

We get it people who have failed have been successful later. Guess what they usually keep failing though.

Name me one DC who has been fired twice by the original coach that hired him. Davis is the only guy I can think of.

[nottsfootballfan]

tetwaroo, on 08 February 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

"When Andy Reid became Eagles coach in 1999, his first choice for defensive coordinator was Marvin Lewis, who opted to stay in Baltimore. Reid's second choice was a coach with little NFL experience as a coordinator named Jim Johnson."

-Jeff McLane, Philly.com

Not comparing Davis to Johnson, but the circumstances appear similar. Relax TATE, gotta wait & see.

not similar, johnson's defenses were all average-good.
****ty Gayvis's are all bad.

[pgcd3]

I said this elsewhere

We're taking a bad defense adding a bad coordinator coupling him with a staff he didn't pick and transforming the scheme of the defense.

That should go well.

[hyjacker]

Billy Davis is more than up to this job. I've been following him for quite a while. He is a good coach and more than ready to move up to DC.He would very quickly straitened the mess that is our line backing corp. the man knows personnel and defenses inside and out I'm frankly surprised no one else grabbed him. So many folks in here if they don't know a guys name assume he isn't up to the job. They often don't know anything about the man except they've never heard of him. Frankly you don't hear much about a line backer coach on an out of town team and look for the big name DC simply because they know the name and the team he is coaching has usually had success. This guy works like an animal an analyzing film, personnel, schemes and talking to the coaches of the people he is bringing in. He is organized smart and quick to make an adjustment when it is needed. His guys are on the field and when they are supposed to be and mentally in the game whether they are in or not. So before you dismiss him because he isn't the popular choice see what other coaches and players think of him. I hope we get him. I'm fairly sure they asked Shurmur what he thought in fact he may have made the suggestion because he knows what Davis can do.

[dmor]

hyjacker, on 08 February 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

Billy Davis is more than up to this job. I've been following him for quite a while. He is a good coach and more than ready to move up to DC.He would very quickly straitened the mess that is our line backing corp. the man knows personnel and defenses inside and out I'm frankly surprised no one else grabbed him. So many folks in here if they don't know a guys name assume he isn't up to the job. They often don't know anything about the man except they've never heard of him. Frankly you don't hear much about a line backer coach on an out of town team and look for the big name DC simply because they know the name and the team he is coaching has usually had success. This guy works like an animal an analyzing film, personnel, schemes and talking to the coaches of the people he is bringing in. He is organized smart and quick to make an adjustment when it is needed. His guys are on the field and when they are supposed to be and mentally in the game whether they are in or not. So before you dismiss him because he isn't the popular choice see what other coaches and players think of him. I hope we get him. I'm fairly sure they asked Shurmur what he thought in fact he may have made the suggestion because he knows what Davis can do.

Hey genius - first thing you need to do is enroll is a basic spelling and grammar class.  After that, try taking a look through the thread and check out this guy's record as a DC in his prior two stints.  After you do that, try to explain why he sucked in Arizona and SF, but nevertheless would be a good DC here.

[dungaroo]

bobbywizdum, on 07 February 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

who the duece is that?

Agree. Never heard of this imbicile.

[dmor]

Redzonemadness, on 08 February 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Look at the good side..

Bill Belichick turned good after sucking w/ browns.
Or..
Every defense so far turned good after Billy Davis was fired..
So i see we having a good defense in 2 years

Newsflash - Billy Davis is not Bill Belichick.  The comparisons are ridiculous.  Belichick was a stellar DC before his Cleveland misadventure.

[Redzonemadness]

Look at the good side..

Bill Belichick turned good after sucking w/ browns.
Or..
Every defense so far turned good after Billy Davis was fired..
So i see we having a good defense in 2 years

[shehateme]

All of the people we can get and choose this guy? Bad move Chip!

[Innocence096]

this guy had implemented the 3-4 for two different teams. How many coaches have had success when switch a defense over? it takes time. with that being said I expect a rough year out of our defense, unless we get a great secondary somehow

shehateme, on 08 February 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

All of the people we can get and choose this guy? Bad move Chip!

who else was actually available to get? the guy they wanted wasnt allowed to interview

[WR_please]

Here's another thing I don't understand about the complaining over Billy Davis.  He's exactly what you wanted.  There are idiots in this forum who have said over and over again they would rather field a tough, smash-mouth team that goes 8-8 than a better, finesse team.  Even if you're not one of those people, most of you still wanted a coach like Billy Davis.

Billy Davis is from the LeBeau coaching tree, which many of you wanted.  He runs a 3-4 (might run the 4-3 under, very similar), which many of you wanted.  He runs a tough, physical defense, which almost all of you wanted.  He's a LB specialist, which is what some of you wanted.  

He had 2 failed stints as DC, both of which were cut way too short and were bad situations (not that this is a great situation either but you just can't look at stats and decide whether or not it's a good hire).

And for fun, let's look at other possible "candidates."  You wanted egomaniac Ray Horton, who would almost surely undermine Chip Kelly?  Ha, no thanks.  You wanted Ted Monachino who was fired by Jacksonville as their DL coach and took over the Ravens LB group that was already good?  Ha, no thanks.  You wanted Romeo Crennel, who just recently witnessed a suicide, got fired again, will be 66-years-old, and whose defense's have been criticized for years for being too passive?  No thanks.  You wanted Keith Butler who's soon to be 57, who's never called a defense in the NFL or FBS, and who is waiting for D LeBeau to retire so he'll be the DC in Pittsburgh?  Not going to happen.  You wanted Ed Donatell, Jim Leavitt, or Kirby Smart?  They weren't available!  You wanted Steve Spagnuolo, who just fielded the worst defense in NFL history and his players have been rumored to hate him?  Ha, no thanks.

[eagles_crazy]

I wonder why Banner didn't block Davis from coming to the Eagles. Maybe Banner still have a soft spot for the Eagles afterall

[Innocence096]

eagles_crazy, on 08 February 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

I wonder why Banner didn't block Davis from coming to the Eagles. Maybe Banner still have a soft spot for the Eagles afterall

if you are going to make a joke atleast make sure it is correct. he was a coaching free agent the day they browns fired the staff

[eagles_crazy]

Innocence096, on 08 February 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

if you are going to make a joke atleast make sure it is correct. he was a coaching free agent the day they browns fired the staff

Oh ok well at least Banner was nice enough to release him for the Eagles to sign, you still owe him that.

[SP]

Time for a thread-title change...

[WetFerret]

Meh.  The shock of Davis' hiring is over.  I'm still not in love with the idea, but I'll give this staff a chance and see what they do.  Hopefully, I'll be surprised.  If not.... well, how much worse could it be than last year?

[dmor]

WR_please, on 08 February 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Here's another thing I don't understand about the complaining over Billy Davis.  He's exactly what you wanted.  There are idiots in this forum who have said over and over again they would rather field a tough, smash-mouth team that goes 8-8 than a better, finesse team.  Even if you're not one of those people, most of you still wanted a coach like Billy Davis.

Billy Davis is from the LeBeau coaching tree, which many of you wanted.  He runs a 3-4 (might run the 4-3 under, very similar), which many of you wanted.  He runs a tough, physical defense, which almost all of you wanted.  He's a LB specialist, which is what some of you wanted.  

He had 2 failed stints as DC, both of which were cut way too short and were bad situations (not that this is a great situation either but you just can't look at stats and decide whether or not it's a good hire).

And for fun, let's look at other possible "candidates."  You wanted egomaniac Ray Horton, who would almost surely undermine Chip Kelly?  Ha, no thanks.  You wanted Ted Monachino who was fired by Jacksonville as their DL coach and took over the Ravens LB group that was already good?  Ha, no thanks.  You wanted Romeo Crennel, who just recently witnessed a suicide, got fired again, will be 66-years-old, and who's defense's have been criticized for years for being too passive?  No thanks.  You wanted Keith Butler who's soon to be 57, who's never called a defense in the NFL or FBS, and who is waiting for D LeBeau to retire so he'll be the DC in Pittsburgh?  Not going to happen.  You wanted Ed Donatell, Jim Leavitt, or Kirby Smart?  They weren't available!  You wanted Steve Spagnuolo, who just fielded the worst defense in NFL history and his players have been rumored to hate him?  Ha, no thanks.

That is bs.  I've been a diehard supporter of the F.O. and coaching staff for years.  But one thing I learned in the working world, when somebody does not have a history of stable employment, that usually means trouble.  You have to be an absolute MORON to want a DC whose defenses consistently fall in the bottom 2 or 3 in the league and who otherwise cannot hold a job for more than 2 or 3 years.

[NOTW]

The reasons people don't like the hire:

1. Never heard of him.

2. He came from the Browns, not a successful organization

3. The ranks of his defenses when he was a Defensive Coordinator at two previous teams were bad.

Collectively, these are valid reasons to not like the hire but particularly the 3rd.

No one knows if the formula of GM, Head Coach, Defensive Coordinator and the personnel they draft will equate to success.  Sometimes (as examples were given in this thread), a coach doesn't do well with one team but has success with another.  It's about chemistry and putting the right team together.

It might work, it might not.  Same with Chip Kelly.  Same with trusting a QB.  It's understandable to not like the hire, but we also don't need to declare it a total failure until we see how the combination of coaches and players works together.

[The Fan Man]

At least it's not Butch Davis.

[dmor]

NOTW, on 08 February 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

The reasons people don't like the hire:

1. Never heard of him.

2. He came from the Browns, not a successful organization

3. The ranks of his defenses when he was a Defensive Coordinator at two previous teams were bad.

Collectively, these are valid reasons to not like the hire but particularly the 3rd.

No one knows if the formula of GM, Head Coach, Defensive Coordinator and the personnel they draft will equate to success.  Sometimes (as examples were given in this thread), a coach doesn't do well with one team but has success with another.  It's about chemistry and putting the right team together.

It might work, it might not.  Same with Chip Kelly.  Same with trusting a QB.  It's understandable to not like the hire, but we also don't need to declare it a total failure until we see how the combination of coaches and players works together.

Add number 4 to the list - Billy Davis has trouble holding a coaching job for more than 2 years at a time.

[emale]

Terrible, terrible, terrible hire.
Tells us a lot about Kelly's decision making.
Let's hope he's better choosing players...

[Iggles_Phan]

nottsfootballfan, on 08 February 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

not similar, johnson's defenses were all average-good.
****ty Gayvis's are all bad.

One of my all-time favorite TATEr obsessions - change the name of someone you don't know, because you are unhappy as a fan with the job they are doing, or in this case, you are unhappy with your expectations for him.

An obvious sign of someone who actually has no real argument.  Its okay.  You don't have to like the hiring of Billy Davis.  We all know that you are really just a frustrated fan who's been beaten down by this team.  Let out your anger.

[NOTW]

dmor, on 08 February 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

Add number 4 to the list - Billy Davis has trouble holding a coaching job for more than 2 years at a time.

True, I was just thinking that went along with the performance of his defenses in his 2 previous DC jobs.

[WR_please]

dmor, on 08 February 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

That is bs.  I've been a diehard supporter of the F.O. and coaching staff for years.  But one thing I learned in the working world, when somebody does not have a history of stable employment, that usually means trouble.  You have to be an absolute MORON to want a DC whose defenses consistently fall in the bottom 2 or 3 in the league and who otherwise cannot hold a job for more than 2 or 3 years.

Who else would you have hired?  Which candidates have you spoken to personally and you know for sure they'd work as well with Chip Kelly and his staff as Davis?  It takes more than NFL.com and Wikipedia to hire a good DC.

[dmor]

WR_please, on 08 February 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Who else would you have hired?  Which candidates have you spoken to personally and you know for sure they'd work as well with Chip Kelly and his staff as Davis?  It takes more than NFL.com and Wikipedia to hire a good DC.

Uh, somebody who doesn't consistently stink it up when he gets the chance.  Somebody who doesn't repeatedly get fired.

In your book, we wouldn't be able to complain if Lurie re-hired Rich Kotite as HC.

[WR_please]

dmor, on 08 February 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Uh, somebody who doesn't consistently stink it up when he gets the chance.  Somebody who doesn't repeatedly get fired.

In your book, we wouldn't be able to complain if Lurie re-hired Rich Kotite as HC.

Don't put words in my mouth.  Kotite failed here.  You didn't follow the situation in SF or Arizona like you follow the Eagles now.  You don't know the situation.

Which candidates have you spoken to personally and you know for sure they'd work as well with Chip Kelly and his staff as Davis?  It takes more than NFL.com and Wikipedia to hire a good DC.  He fits the criteria for everything I've read that you people wanted.  He was put in 2 terrible situations (please read prior posts before replying; I will not type what I typed there again) and he failed.  Jim Johnson failed.  Jim Johnson inherited a bunch of talent on the Eagles and he did well with it.  Had he been put in the same situation he was put in with the Colts, would he have failed again?  Who knows?  But it's all about fit; you people who are crying about the hire fail to realize that.

[pgcd3]

WR_please, on 08 February 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

Don't put words in my mouth.  Kotite failed here.  You didn't follow the situation in SF or Arizona like you follow the Eagles now.  You don't know the situation.

Which candidates have you spoken to personally and you know for sure they'd work as well with Chip Kelly and his staff as Davis?  It takes more than NFL.com and Wikipedia to hire a good DC.  He fits the criteria for everything I've read that you people wanted.  He was put in 2 terrible situations (please read prior posts before replying; I will not type what I typed there again) and he failed.  Jim Johnson failed.  Jim Johnson inherited a bunch of talent on the Eagles and he did well with it.  Had he been put in the same situation he was put in with the Colts, would he have failed again?  Who knows?  But it's all about fit; you people who are crying about the hire fail to realize that.

Granted, we don;t have inside knowledge. You know who did have inside knowledge. Mike Nolan and Ken Whisenhunt. They hired Davis and subsequently fired and replaced him. But you argue that your excuses for his poor performance are more valid than the coaches opinions who fired him. Double standard?

[Sack that QB]

Grantham withdrew his name for the Saints job. I think he, not Donatell was their man, and they knew he in all certainty wasn't leaving Georgia.

That leaves guys like Monachino, Rob Ryan, etc. Not exactly hot names. I'd unquestionably rather ahve Billy Davis than Rob Ryan. Monachino I have no idea about. No experience as a DC.

[ryguy552]

Sack that QB, on 08 February 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Grantham withdrew his name for the Saints job. I think he, not Donatell was their man, and they knew he in all certainty wasn't leaving Georgia.

That leaves guys like Monachino, Rob Ryan, etc. Not exactly hot names. I'd unquestionably rather ahve Billy Davis than Rob Ryan. Monachino I have no idea about. No experience as a DC.

I tend to agree. This was a sub par year in looking for a d coordinator to be honest. Monachino does have the look and feel of a guy that can run a defense and he got glowing reviews from the d-coordinator there who said he's the best coach he's ever worked with in 30 or 40 years but Chip clearly wanted a guy with NFL defensive coordinator experience. Chino isn't going anywhere anyway if this fails we can always go after him.

[InfiniteSeriesN]

dmor, on 08 February 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

In your book, we wouldn't be able to complain if Lurie re-hired Rich Kotite as HC.

at least kotite had the sense to hire bud carson as his DC.